Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread V

Clearlier

errlloyd wrote: »

I would like to see squad rotation against Italy and Scotland at home. There is quite a lot of rotation in the rugby championship we should replicate that.

I'm not sure that we can afford to rotate much against Scotland. They're coming back to our level again after several years in the doldrums.

Clearlier

Faugheen wrote: »

Yep, just like O'Driscoll and D'Arcy's career's were shattered by being called up too early.

If he's good enough, he's old enough. Ringrose is certainly good enough.

If Dillane and Van Der Flier are there for the experience, then why isn't Ringrose? If he's going to be our next big thing then surely the experience wouldn't do him any harm.

Ringrose has been involved with the Irish squad since about two years ago. It made sense when he wasn't getting games for Leinster. Now that he is he'll benefit more from matches with Leinster than training with Ireland.

molloyjh

With the emergence of McCloskey and Marshall as a quality partnership in Ulster, Henshaw as a nailed on centre for Ireland and Fitzgerald having a great season for Leinster at 12 we're starting to see a lot of indigenous centres coming through. Throw in Ringrose to the mix in the next year or so and we'll have real options there without looking at Payne.

Payne is a quality FB and we do need depth there badly. There's no way Zebo will reach Paynes level there in the foreseeable. For me the best possible use of resources now is to look at Payne making the move to FB over the next season or so.

If I'm honest a half-back and centre combo of Murray-Sexton-McCloskey-Ringrose in 12-18 months could be very exciting. I'd like to see us move towards something like that. Especially if we have guys like Fitz and Earls on the wings then as well. The ability to bring on guys like Luke McGrath, Jackson and Henshaw then as well would provide serious impact off the bench.

errlloyd

Clearlier wrote: »

I'm not sure that we can afford to rotate much against Scotland. They're coming back to our level again after several years in the doldrums.

I think there are some positions where the second choice isn't much of a step down. I wouldn't be too worried if we have first choice on the bench.

irishbucsfan

I'd be surprised if we see any unforced changes that aren't tactical. These games are too important.

irishbucsfan

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I'd be surprised if we see any unforced changes that aren't tactical. These games are too important.

I agree, it's not his Schmidt has treated the 6N at all so far. It's a bit boring but can't argue with results

CMOTDibbler

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I'd be surprised if we see any unforced changes that aren't tactical. These games are too important.

Yep. It's not valid to compare with the Rugby Championship because of the greater number of games in that tournament and the home/away fixtures and tighter schedule that make it more of a benefit to rotate.

bilston

molloyjh wrote: »

With the emergence of McCloskey and Marshall as a quality partnership in Ulster, Henshaw as a nailed on centre for Ireland and Fitzgerald having a great season for Leinster at 12 we're starting to see a lot of indigenous centres coming through. Throw in Ringrose to the mix in the next year or so and we'll have real options there without looking at Payne.

Payne is a quality FB and we do need depth there badly. There's no way Zebo will reach Paynes level there in the foreseeable. For me the best possible use of resources now is to look at Payne making the move to FB over the next season or so.

If I'm honest a half-back and centre combo of Murray-Sexton-McCloskey-Ringrose in 12-18 months could be very exciting. I'd like to see us move towards something like that. Especially if we have guys like Fitz and Earls on the wings then as well. The ability to bring on guys like Luke McGrath, Jackson and Henshaw then as well would provide serious impact off the bench.

I see Olding is back for Ulster A this weekend. Playing 13. That's another name to add to the mix. Having watched Leinster the other day and having seen some decent youngsters emerge for Ulster and Connacht recently I reckon we may have more depth than ever over the next 4 years and beyond. There is some real talent out there and not just in the centre.

CatFromHue

errlloyd wrote: »

I would like to see squad rotation against Italy and Scotland at home. There is quite a lot of rotation in the rugby championship we should replicate that.

In RWC years there would be a bit of rotation all right. In non RWC years I'm not so sure.

molloyjh

bilston wrote: »

I see Olding is back for Ulster A this weekend. Playing 13. That's another name to add to the mix. Having watched Leinster the other day and having seen some decent youngsters emerge for Ulster and Connacht recently I reckon we may have more depth than ever over the next 4 years and beyond. There is some real talent out there and not just in the centre.

Don't forget Arnold as well who looked good alongside Ringrose for the U20s last year.

We're struggling at lock and in the back 3 a little in terms of developing players. But there is a good deal coming through pretty much everywhere else. In the centre in particular though we're starting to thrive a bit. Even young Scannell at Munster looks a good prospect, although it remains to be seen whether his future is at 12 or 10.

Tox56

molloyjh wrote: »

Don't forget Arnold as well who looked good alongside Ringrose for the U20s last year.

We're struggling at lock and in the back 3 a little in terms of developing players. But there is a good deal coming through pretty much everywhere else. In the centre in particular though we're starting to thrive a bit. Even young Scannell at Munster looks a good prospect, although it remains to be seen whether his future is at 12 or 10.

Scholes in ulster is very impressive, he's got the physical ability but he has the intelligence too which is arguably more important

bilston

molloyjh wrote: »

Don't forget Arnold as well who looked good alongside Ringrose for the U20s last year.

We're struggling at lock and in the back 3 a little in terms of developing players. But there is a good deal coming through pretty much everywhere else. In the centre in particular though we're starting to thrive a bit. Even young Scannell at Munster looks a good prospect, although it remains to be seen whether his future is at 12 or 10.

Tox has already mentioned him but I think Scholes has a bit about him. I've said it a few times, but I feel he is a more complete winger than Gilroy but still has a bit to learn obviously and I know we'll not know until he makes the step up to the Munster side but Stephen Fitzgerald look promising last year for the U20s. I'm not sure how he has been doing this year though.

Second row isn't too bad thanks to the emergence of Dillane and obviously there is Hendo to come back. Moloney keeps impressing at Leinster and someone on the42 comments section was bigging up John Ryan from Leinster as a possible player to watch. Obviously a few of those guys have some way to go so it's hard to know at the moment.

We've lost POC, Ross won't be far behind him and I guess Tommy will soon be put out to pasture depending on how he returns from his injury, but there definitely seems to be more players emerging than players retiring so I think depth wise we will be stronger moving forward, although whether that means we will be stronger quality wise remains to be seen as you will just never know until these guys make the next step up.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Is FB our most problem position going forward? Other than putting Henshaw back to 15 which, given the large number of centre options, is not the worst idea, is there really anybody coming through the provinces that looks like being a decent successor to Kearney?

irishbucsfan

Kearney is far from finished at this stage.

He has a couple of years left, by that stage we could be looking at whoever his Leinster successor is, maybe an improved O'Halloran, maybe someone like Henshaw or Olding at 15. It's too far out to tell right now

irishbucsfan

Kearney is far from finished at this stage.

He has a couple of years left, by that stage we could be looking at whoever his Leinster successor is, maybe an improved O'Halloran, maybe someone like Henshaw or Olding at 15. It's too far out to tell right now

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Kearney is far from finished at this stage.

He has a couple of years left, by that stage we could be looking at whoever his Leinster successor is, maybe an improved O'Halloran, maybe someone like Henshaw or Olding at 15. It's too far out to tell right now

I didn't mean to suggest he was finished but he has had a poor year with injuries. If he was to be out again for a few weeks who do we look to? Schmidt seemed to bring Zebo to the WC as cover for Kearney but much like with the Jackson/Madigan debate, I'd far rather have a player who played the one position week in week out for their club.

According to Wikipedia (always reliable, I know) Neither of the current Leinster FB's, after Kearney, are Irish. Ulster and Munster have 1 each and Connacht 2, if you include O'Halloran, who I think has been playing mostly on the wing. Of those players I think T'OH is the only one who has been in or around the training squads?

I know there are also a few players who cover multiple positions but there just doesn't seem to be any one, or even two, names in the conversation for that position the way there have been for other positions. I suppose you could say the same for SH. Marmion is literally the only Irish SH playing regularly? Young guy at Leinster seeing a bit of action this season but is some way off still.

b.gud

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

According to Wikipedia (always reliable, I know) Neither of the current Leinster FB's, after Kearney, are Irish. Ulster and Munster have 1 each and Connacht 2, if you include O'Halloran, who I think has been playing mostly on the wing. Of those players I think T'OH is the only one who has been in or around the training squads?

O'Halloran started out in Connacht primarily as a wing but over the last 2 seasons he has transitioned to full back and is now the first choice in that position. Him and Darragh Leader would be our primary options at full back in the current squad

I don't get the point about Marmion, there are loads of Irish scrum halves playing regularly.

irishbucsfan

b.gud wrote: »

O'Halloran started out in Connacht primarily as a wing but over the last 2 seasons he has transitioned to full back and is now the first choice in that position. Him and Darragh Leader would be our primary options at full back in the current squad

TOH played 15 at underage level though, right?

b.gud

irishbucsfan wrote: »

TOH played 15 at underage level though, right?

Not 100% sure, as it was only later that I really got into rugby, but I think so. I def know that he really broke through for Connacht on the wing

molloyjh

bilston wrote: »

Tox has already mentioned him but I think Scholes has a bit about him. I've said it a few times, but I feel he is a more complete winger than Gilroy but still has a bit to learn obviously and I know we'll not know until he makes the step up to the Munster side but Stephen Fitzgerald look promising last year for the U20s. I'm not sure how he has been doing this year though.

Second row isn't too bad thanks to the emergence of Dillane and obviously there is Hendo to come back. Moloney keeps impressing at Leinster and someone on the42 comments section was bigging up John Ryan from Leinster as a possible player to watch. Obviously a few of those guys have some way to go so it's hard to know at the moment.

We've lost POC, Ross won't be far behind him and I guess Tommy will soon be put out to pasture depending on how he returns from his injury, but there definitely seems to be more players emerging than players retiring so I think depth wise we will be stronger moving forward, although whether that means we will be stronger quality wise remains to be seen as you will just never know until these guys make the next step up.

Forgot about Stephen Fitzgerald actually. He was very impressive for the U20s.

We're definitely improving in the depth department at the moment. We just need to look at the TH situation to see a clear example of that. With the provincial and international successes of the last 10-15 years that was always going to happen. Read an interview with Molony today where he was saying he was 14 watching the Leinster HEC win in 09 (that made me feel old!). We need to keep inspiring that age group and with the way the Ireland team are going hopefully we can do just that.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Harley Uptight Light wrote: »

I don't get the point about Marmion, there are loads of Irish scrum halves playing regularly.

What's not to get? Outside the current set up of Murray, Reddan and Boss, Marmion is the only Irish qualified SH playing regularly. Or am I wrong?

irishbucsfan

Luke McGrath has played a decent amount this season and that'll increase as Reddan winds down.

In Murray/Marmion/McGrath we've actually probably got better, younger, options at 9 than any time I remember. It's been a problem position for years and years now. If Ulster can grab someone (James Hart!) who is young and IQ then it would be even better.

irishbucsfan

Luke McGrath has played a decent amount this season and that'll increase as Reddan winds down.

In Murray/Marmion/McGrath we've actually probably got better, younger, options at 9 than any time I remember. It's been a problem position for years and years now. If Ulster can grab someone (James Hart!) who is young and IQ then it would be even better.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Luke McGrath has played a decent amount this season and that'll increase as Reddan winds down.

In Murray/Marmion/McGrath we've actually probably got better, younger, options at 9 than any time I remember. It's been a problem position for years and years now. If Ulster can grab someone (James Hart!) who is young and IQ then it would be even better.

There are options at SH. If Murray was to suffer some horrible career ending injury tomorrow though neither Marmion or McGrath have enough experience. I'd hope to see Marmion get some sort of meaningful game time over the next year. But in terms of thinking long term we may actually be alright at SH. So I'll go back to my original supposition that FB is the most problematic position, long term.

CMOTDibbler

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

There are options at SH. If Murray was to suffer some horrible career ending injury tomorrow though neither Marmion or McGrath have enough experience. I'd hope to see Marmion get some sort of meaningful game time over the next year. But in terms of thinking long term we may actually be alright at SH. So I'll go back to my original supposition that FB is the most problematic position, long term.

Stuart Olding is also a full back as well as being centre, out half and all round wunderkind.

Assuming that Zebo isn't the long term solution then we'd be looking at the likes of Olding and TOH with Henshaw as an outside bet.

Realistically it's to the academies we have to look at and apparently the Leinster academy is awash with FB/Wing, FB and Wing/FBs

thomond2006

I realise Henderson is injured but looking at the options selected I can't help but be a little concerned regarding Ireland's prospects at lock two or three years down the line. I'd like to see Dillane get a chance at some stage during the tournament but right now the options for starting are 29, 32 and 34 respectively.

CMOTDibbler

thomond2006 wrote: »

I realise Henderson is injured but looking at the options selected I can't help but be a little concerned regarding Ireland's prospects at lock two or three years down the line. I'd like to see Dillane get a chance at some stage during the tournament but right now the options for starting are 29, 32 and 34 respectively.

Two or three years down the line, the options are Henderson, Toner and Dillane plus other possibilities like Molony.

I wouldn't be too concerned yet.

Hagz

I wouldn't at all be concerned.

Iain Henderson, Alan O'Connor, Ultan Dillane, Dave Foley, John Madigan, Ross Molony, James Ryan, Mick Kearney, Quinn Roux. Obviously if they were our options right now that'd be cause for concern, but 2-3 years down the line it'll be different.

awec

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/six-nations/its-a-shame-brian-odriscoll-disappointed-at-garry-ringroses-six-nations-omission-34382048.html

BOD has such a blue tinted view of mexicans that I am waiting for his tweet backing Joaquin Guzman.

awec

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/six-nations/its-a-shame-brian-odriscoll-disappointed-at-garry-ringroses-six-nations-omission-34382048.html

BOD has such a blue tinted view of mexicans that I am waiting for his tweet backing Joaquin Guzman.

Pink Fairy

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

What's not to get? Outside the current set up of Murray, Reddan and Boss, Marmion is the only Irish qualified SH playing regularly. Or am I wrong?

There's another Irish international and Lion at Munster!

awec

awec wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/six-nations/its-a-shame-brian-odriscoll-disappointed-at-garry-ringroses-six-nations-omission-34382048.html

BOD has such a blue tinted view of mexicans that I am waiting for his tweet backing Joaquin Guzman.

Don't get the mexican bit but just back from work drinks so maybe that has something to do with it.

But is BOD not entitled to voice an opinion on centre play for Ireland or am I missing something?

Pink Fairy

There's a few better centers left out of the squad as it is , don't think Ringrose can have too much to complain about after a decent half season can he

CMOTDibbler

Deleted User wrote: »

Don't get the mexican bit but just back from work drinks so maybe that has something to do with it.

Yep, you have to drop a couple of levels to pick up on it. It's a semi-racist derogatory adjective used to describe us down south by them up north.

bilston

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

Yep, you have to drop a couple of levels to pick up on it. It's a semi-racist derogatory adjective used to describe us down south by them up north.

Semi-racist???

A bit OTT there.

CMOTDibbler

bilston wrote: »

Semi-racist???

A bit OTT there.

Meh. Just phrasing it in a way that Mr. Outrage can understand. :pac:

But realistically, what other way would you describe it? Genuine question here, not trying to be smart.

molloyjh

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

Meh. Just phrasing it in a way that Mr. Outrage can understand. :pac:

But realistically, what other way would you describe it? Genuine question here, not trying to be smart.

Banter of geographical positioning?

Utah_Saint

"..SOUTH of the border, down Mexico way..."

song lyrics. Although I've only used it for Leinster. Munster are turnips and Connacht are Westies...

I'm an equal opportunities offender... ;-)

former total

Pink Fairy wrote: »

There's a few better centers left out of the squad as it is , don't think Ringrose can have too much to complain about after a decent half season can he

I don't think Ringrose is hard done by, but who are the better centres that have been left out?

awec

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

Yep, you have to drop a couple of levels to pick up on it. It's a semi-racist derogatory adjective used to describe us down south by them up north.

Ha!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZYPa6tI43Q

(For everyone else, I was only joking about BOD and his blue tinted spectacles)

awec

Deleted User wrote: »

Don't get the mexican bit but just back from work drinks so maybe that has something to do with it.

But is BOD not entitled to voice an opinion on centre play for Ireland or am I missing something?

Leinster fans are mexicans.

WarZ

We will probably win a 6N then get her hands handed to us in 2019 as usual.

Best got captain, great, at least he'll get to captain a 6n winning side. We will be told it is the be all and end all of sporting achievement. Then plummet out of the world cup as usual

WarZ

We will probably win a 6N then get her hands handed to us in 2019 as usual.

Best got captain, great, at least he'll get to captain a 6n winning side. We will be told it is the be all and end all of sporting achievement. Then plummet out of the world cup as usual

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

WarZ wrote: »

We will probably win a 6N then get her hands handed to us in 2019 as usual.

Best got captain, great, at least he'll get to captain a 6n winning side. We will be told it is the be all and end all of sporting achievement. Then plummet out of the world cup as usual

CatFromHue

WarZ wrote: »

We will probably win a 6N then get her hands handed to us in 2019 as usual.

Best got captain, great, at least he'll get to captain a 6n winning side. We will be told it is the be all and end all of sporting achievement. Then plummet out of the world cup as usual

I'm not sure why you're talking about the RWC when it's 4 years away.

Anyway the RWC is not the be all and end all of rugby, tbh I'd much prefer to win a test series in SA/NZ or even Oz than win a RWC or a GS or two would nice as well.

WarZ

The WC is the be all and end all and we were humiliated in 2015.

Unless an Irish team ever actually manages to achieve a SF or Final then they will always be overrated sportsmen IMO. They look good compared to the mediocre current 6N teams and occasionally with a touring SH side.

When it comes to games that matters, or when playing the SH side away its a different matter.

We are not a team of superstars, we are a team of average players, overhyped by the media and from a limited playing pool that below below or at the very best on par with their ability.

At club level, we WERE good, when our teams were one of the few teams stacked fully with internationals but now that has even changed.

WarZ

The WC is the be all and end all and we were humiliated in 2015.

Unless an Irish team ever actually manages to achieve a SF or Final then they will always be overrated sportsmen IMO. They look good compared to the mediocre current 6N teams and occasionally with a touring SH side.

When it comes to games that matters, or when playing the SH side away its a different matter.

We are not a team of superstars, we are a team of average players, overhyped by the media and from a limited playing pool that play below or at the very best on par with their ability.

At provincial level, we WERE good, when our teams were one of the few teams stacked fully with internationals but now that has even changed.

CMOTDibbler

awec wrote: »

Ha!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZYPa6tI43Q

(For everyone else, I was only joking about BOD and his blue tinted spectacles)

Not good enough awec. You've insulted me and my fellow Mexicans.

I'll decide how and when my outrage is assuaged

WarZ

O.K as of today at 07:40am I think I am finally over the World Cup exit.

There will be no more negative posts as I try to move from the horrors of 2003, 2007, 2011 and 2015