Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread V

awec

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

I would hope at the very least Payne would be seen as the obvious back up at FB in the case of Kearney not being available. There's a variety of options at centre if he's not playing there.

The continual selection of Payne at 13 is effectively having Ireland play with one hand tied behind their back.

There's really no justification for it any more, Payne just driving the message home the past two weeks and putting the discussion of what his best position is to bed once and for all hopefully.

If he really wants to he can pick Kearney again, just don't pick Payne at 13.

The Rape of Lucretia

awec wrote: »

The continual selection of Payne at 13 is effectively having Ireland play with one hand tied behind their back.

There's really no justification for it any more, Payne just driving the message home the past two weeks and putting the discussion of what his best position is to bed once and for all hopefully.

If he really wants to he can pick Kearney again, just don't pick Payne at 13.

What if he wants a fullback at 13?
Doesnt that make Payne the perfect, in form, candidate ?

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

awec wrote: »

The continual selection of Payne at 13 is effectively having Ireland play with one hand tied behind their back.

There's really no justification for it any more, Payne just driving the message home the past two weeks and putting the discussion of what his best position is to bed once and for all hopefully.

If he really wants to he can pick Kearney again, just don't pick Payne at 13.

I suppose the argument is how do you get all your best players, or the players you want, on the pitch. If Schmidt thinks Payne brings something other players can't he may just want him on the pitch.

Personally I think with the likes of McCloskey (and later Ringrose) coming through we have the opportunity to play actual centres in the centre and that seems a pretty logical decision to me.

awec

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

What if he wants a fullback at 13?
Doesnt that make Payne the perfect, in form, candidate ?

I have a radical idea.

How about we play a 13 at 13, and a 12 at 12?

It's a bit whacky I know, but I reckon it just might work. Doubt we'd be the first team to try it.

irishbucsfan

awec wrote: »

I have a radical idea.

How about we play a 13 at 13, and a 12 at 12?

It's a bit whacky I know, but I reckon it just might work. Doubt we'd be the first team to try it.

Payne is a 13. You have to understand that. He's played at 13 for every team he's played for throughout his career.

You may not rate him at 13, but you can't pretend he is not a 13.

As for Henshaw at 12, he's looked damn good playing there for us so far. He hasn't really played 12 anywhere else but he doesn't look out of position.

The Rape of Lucretia

Thats old school though, and not really what we are looking for. The natural fullback, and Payne is that, playing as a fullback despite 11-14 being on the shirt, is Joes ideal backline. Dave is one, Henshaw is another if less perfect, and Payne is ideal. The fifth of our 5 fullbacks is where we are weak, and will have to settle forwinger: Trimble, Fitz, or Earls. None of those 3have been succcessful fullbacks.

awec

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Payne is a 13. You have to understand that. He's played at 13 for every team he's played for throughout his career.

You may not rate him at 13, but you can't pretend he is not a 13.

As for Henshaw at 12, he's looked damn good playing there for us so far. He hasn't really played 12 anywhere else but he doesn't look out of position.

Payne is a 13 in the same way Johnny Sexton is a 12.

irishbucsfan

awec wrote: »

Payne is a 13 in the same way Johnny Sexton is a 12.

Well no, obviously not. Noone has ever rated 12 as Sexton's best position. Unlike every coach who has ever coached Payne at professional level.

Pink Fairy

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Payne is a 13. You have to understand that. He's played at 13 for every team he's played for throughout his career.

You may not rate him at 13, but you can't pretend he is not a 13.

As for Henshaw at 12, he's looked damn good playing there for us so far. He hasn't really played 12 anywhere else but he doesn't look out of position.

By that logic Earls is also a 13,

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Pink Fairy wrote: »

By that logic Earls is also a 13,

Zzippy

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Well no, obviously not. Noone has ever rated 12 as Sexton's best position. Unlike every coach who has ever coached Payne at professional level.

Les Kiss may not agree.

irishbucsfan

Zzippy wrote: »

Les Kiss may not agree.

Unless I'm mistaken Kiss played Payne at 13 regularly the last time he was in charge at Ulster

Pink Fairy wrote: »

By that logic Earls is also a 13,

Yes, by that logic he is.

jm08

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Thats old school though, and not really what we are looking for. The natural fullback, and Payne is that, playing as a fullback despite 11-14 being on the shirt, is Joes ideal backline. Dave is one, Henshaw is another if less perfect, and Payne is ideal. The fifth of our 5 fullbacks is where we are weak, and will have to settle forwinger: Trimble, Fitz, or Earls. None of those 3have been succcessful fullbacks.

Just for the record, Simon Zebo at fullback made two non-Irish (Telegraph & Planet rugby) dream teams of the week for the game v. Stade in Thomond.

He was one of two players in the Irish Provinces to do so.

former total

jm08 wrote: »

Just for the record, Simon Zebo at fullback made two non-Irish (Telegraph & Planet rugby) dream teams of the week for the game v. Stade in Thomond.

He was one of two players in the Irish Provinces to do so.

Rest assured, that accolade will be granted the appropriate weight by the Irish coaches when it comes to selection.

shootermacg

jm08 wrote: »

Just for the record, Simon Zebo at fullback made two non-Irish (Telegraph & Planet rugby) dream teams of the week for the game v. Stade in Thomond.

He was one of two players in the Irish Provinces to do so.

To be fair, I counted twice where he was swatted like a fly in defense, but I suppose that never stopped Rob Kearney!

CoDy1

'Which one of our great players should play in the positions we have an abundance of options in' seems to be the theme for the last few pages but in reality we have a ridiculously scarce number of options in the key positions that you need to have in the game of rugby, scrumhalf, outhalf, 2nd row, hooker.
I honestly couldn't care if Dave kearney has a blinder and scores a hatrick while man handling 7 try attempts to touch in defence but if Conor Murray gets injured and Sexton is hit again in the head its all irrelevant. We talk over each other about positions that, if we are all honest about it, any of the players in contention could/can do the job when asked.

Its the key positions that it would be great to have a debate about but unfortunately there is only 1 person good enough and if they get injured, its 6n over.

Just sayin

aimee1

jm08 wrote: »

Just for the record, Simon Zebo at fullback made two non-Irish (Telegraph & Planet rugby) dream teams of the week for the game v. Stade in Thomond.

He was one of two players in the Irish Provinces to do so.

Thats nice. Gold star for simon.

mfceiling

jm08 wrote: »

Just for the record, Simon Zebo at fullback made two non-Irish (Telegraph & Planet rugby) dream teams of the week for the game v. Stade in Thomond.

He was one of two players in the Irish Provinces to do so.

Quick, get JS on the phone. Zebo must be the first name on the team sheet immediately.

bilston

Just going back to the midfield debate, Luke Marshall is in brilliant form right now. Payne got most of the headlines for yesterday's performance by Ulster but thinking back Marshall was at the centre of everything, his passing gives Ulster a genuine extra dimension, he is finally being used the way he should be and not just as a battering ram. We are seeing some great footwork from him too. He doesn't quite have the explosive feet of a Fitzgerald or an Olding but given the whole package he is a really fine player. I have to admit I'd written him off a bit earlier in the season, to the point I would have swapped him for someone like Jordi Murphy, but actually right now Marshall must be very close to getting selected for Ireland, yeah it will most likely be Henshaw and Payne but given his experience it could be that he might be next into the team and not McCloskey.

There are some really good centre options for Joe now.

swiwi_

I'm looking forward to the naming of the first 23. On this forum, we have what I will call the conservative camp, who think Schmidt will (and in some cases should) stick with Henshaw and Payne in midfield, and Kearney at 15. On the more liberal side, we have those who would like to see McCloskey started at 12, with Robbie moving out one, and Payne getting a shot at 15.

The Wales game will be very interesting: regardless of which way the selection goes, the result will have one half of this forum posting "told-you-so" and the other half either trying to dig their way out of a hole, or fronting up and admitting they might be wrong.

Some of the bellweather selections I will be looking out for will be the likes of what happens to Stander, who does get the midfield slots, and which back three are chosen.

Potentially fun times ahead...

phog

swiwi_ wrote: »

I'm looking forward to the naming of the first 23. On this forum, we have what I will call the conservative camp, who think Schmidt will (and in some cases should) stick with Henshaw and Payne in midfield, and Kearney at 15. On the more liberal side, we have those who would like to see McCloskey started at 12, with Robbie moving out one, and Payne getting a shot at 15.

The Wales game will be very interesting: regardless of which way the selection goes, the result will have one half of this forum posting "told-you-so" and the other half either trying to dig their way out of a hole, or fronting up and admitting they might be wrong.

Some of the bellweather selections I will be looking out for will be the likes of what happens to Stander, who does get the midfield slots, and which back three are chosen.

Potentially fun times ahead...

Wales is the banana skin this season, first game and at home, traditionally, home games are easier win but Wales proved how strong they were in the RWC with probably more injuries than we had.

I think Joe will go with his tried and trusted and any changes will be forced by injury. Form hasn't been used by Joe in selecting any of his teams so far so I can't see him starting now.

former total

I don't think retaining the guts of the same team is conservative TBH. I've never been a fan of the Henshaw - Payne midfield but it is very well suited to Joe's game plan so why would he change it? It's been very, very successful for us.

McCloskey is a good player but I've seen nothing that makes me think he HAS to play ahead of Henshaw. And there is simply no one to come in ahead of Payne, unless you move Henshaw out one, but why would you?

The midfield will be Henshaw and Payne.

The back three, meh, any two of Earls, Luke, Trimble and DK to fill the wings. There is no combination that is either particularly adventurous or conservative. RK will be the 15. I don't expect Zebo to feature really.

No one has made a compelling case for massive change IMO.

"Form" is very difficult to judge because the European cup has been so all over the place, the sample size of meaningful games is tiny.

ionadnapokot

former total wrote: »

I don't think retaining the guts of the same team is conservative TBH. I've never been a fan of the Henshaw - Payne midfield but it is very well suited to Joe's game plan so why would he change it? It's been very, very successful for us.

McCloskey is a good player but I've seen nothing that makes me think he HAS to play ahead of Henshaw. And there is simply no one to come in ahead of Payne, unless you move Henshaw out one, but why would you?

The midfield will be Henshaw and Payne.

The back three, meh, any two of Earls, Luke, Trimble and DK to fill the wings. There is no combination that is either particularly adventurous or conservative. RK will be the 15. I don't expect Zebo to feature really.

No one has made a compelling case for massive change IMO.

"Form" is very difficult to judge because the European cup has been so all over the place, the sample size of meaningful games is tiny.

JS has to expand our options in attack. That is the factor that will necessitate change.
I think McCloskey is a better distributed at 12 and Henshaw has to be in the team. Would also like to see Payne in instead of Rk.
It's not too radical a change. Particularly after an underwhelming WC in which our limitations were obvious.

sydthebeat

I think the case for change, while maybe not compelling, is based on familiarity breeding contempt. I think we've played quite similarly in the last two (successful) 6n and at this stage they other teams would have developed plans and tactics to counter us. I think we will see quite a different France this year, and away from home we've never been comprehensive in our wins. Noves is pretty much the antithesis of lievrimont and psa, and will be developing a style much more akin to Argentina than the France of the last few years.
Jones with England is a more of an unknown prospect in that he well have to mix the traditional England brawn with his clinical detailed ethos, and that could take time to bed in, whereas "flair" is always an untapped resource for the gauls.

I think gatlands inability to change is a larger part of their barren trophy cabinet for the last two years. I think other teams have seen ways to counter the "up the middle and round the corner" style the Welsh use to great effect.

So I think we have to see change for these reasons. Assuming other teams are happy to drop their back three and sweepers deeper than normal to counter our kicking game, we should be looking at creating gaps better around the fridges and in midfield.

swiwi_

In the main, if you are a stalwart in the Irish XV, you lose your jersey if

1) You retire
2) You get injured
3) Your form falls so far off a cliff even your most ardent supporters realise the game is up

It's all very reactive, and not proactive. It's very rare to find a player playing well replaced by someone playing very well/even better. It's just not the done thing.

I am told Schmidt ("Joe" for people on this forum) was famous for his selection "curve-balls" whilst in charge of Leinster (the Leinster thread can oft be found fondly reminiscing on such things) but he has proven fairly conservative with Ireland. And I guess fair enough, he has the trophies to show for it.

However, I'm not sure "steady as" will be enough for the 2016 edition.

OldRio

I just hope JS was at Coventry yesterday. Plenty to mull over.

former total

ionadnapokot wrote: »

JS has to expand our options in attack. That is the factor that will necessitate change.
I think McCloskey is a better distributed at 12 and Henshaw has to be in the team. Would also like to see Payne in instead of Rk.
It's not too radical a change. Particularly after an underwhelming WC in which our limitations were obvious.

Yeah I'd love to see more variety in attack too, my point was that it's a systems issue rather than personnel.

If Henshaw is told to truck it up and present quick ball, that's what he'll do. If he's told to lie deeper and look for gaps, that's what he'll do. Simply putting McCloskey in at 12 won't change things by itself and I don't see Joe performing radical surgery on the game plan so I don't foresee major changes in the XV.

The other aspect that Swiwi overlooked is that for every team announcement, there is one call that engulfs the board and gets blown out of all proportion. Felix Jones on the bench, Zebo, Toner v Henderson, Duncan fncking Casey, Zebo, Madigan v Jackson, Zebo etc - looks like the centres will fulfil that role this time. It's gonna get nasty.

former total

swiwi_ wrote: »

In the main, if you are a stalwart in the Irish XV, you lose your jersey if

1) You retire
2) You get injured
3) Your form falls so far off a cliff even your most ardent supporters realise the game is up

It's all very reactive, and not proactive. It's very rare to find a player playing well replaced by someone playing very well/even better. It's just not the done thing.

I am told Schmidt ("Joe" for people on this forum) was famous for his selection "curve-balls" whilst in charge of Leinster (the Leinster thread can oft be found fondly reminiscing on such things) but he has proven fairly conservative with Ireland. And I guess fair enough, he has the trophies to show for it.

However, I'm not sure "steady as" will be enough for the 2016 edition.

Just out of interest, who of the current XV is playing badly and should be replaced by someone better?

The Rape of Lucretia

ionadnapokot wrote: »

JS has to expand our options in attack. That is the factor that will necessitate change.

I dont think he does, or that we need change. You can improve by getting better at what you are already doin. Making fewer mistakes, executing the game plan more clinically, improving the decision making of all and geling as a team.
Joe wont change what he has been doing very successfully, rather polish it to make it even more effective.
We have no BOD, Paulie, Hickie. So no point just going for the next best available in that style: you build your gameplan to best exploit the skills of the players available.
If McCloskey or Ringrose come on as we might hope, then maybe a different plan another day. But for the moment, its a qustion of exploiting Rob, Payne, Henchie, etc and their attributes. Kick it put of your own half, chase, put up contestibles on the opposition 22, force penalties, create mismatches, choke tackles. And most importaantly, concede nothing.
I think we can win this 6N. G Slam even. Infact, I think we have a better chance than each of the last two yeara. So hopefully we leave fantasies of forwards offloadong in open play, and backs playing intricate risky plays off the agenda, and keep it tight, and win the kicks in the air. Its ours for the taking.

ionadnapokot

former total wrote: »

Yeah I'd love to see more variety in attack too, my point was that it's a systems issue rather than personnel.

If Henshaw is told to truck it up and present quick ball, that's what he'll do. If he's told to lie deeper and look for gaps, that's what he'll do. Simply putting McCloskey in at 12 won't change things by itself and I don't see Joe performing radical surgery on the game plan so I don't foresee major changes in the XV.

The other aspect that Swiwi overlooked is that for every team announcement, there is one call that engulfs the board and gets blown out of all proportion. Felix Jones on the bench, Toner v Henderson, Duncan fncking Casey, Madigan v Jackson etc - looks like the centres will fulfil that role this time. It's gonna get nasty.

Henshaw has been immense for Ireland the past couple of seasons and I completely agree the players are doing what they are told. But JS has looked at what the players are good at and based game plan on that. It has to be said that Henshaws passing is not his strongest assets.
The previous game plans made sense, for the most part( Welsh games? Case in point), but I believe he now has options in the centre (& Ringrose!), and to a much lesser extent at fb that can enable change to a quicker wider attacking game that will also hopefully look to attack the space on turnover ball and kick return.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

former total wrote: »

The other aspect that Swiwi overlooked is that for every team announcement, there is one call that engulfs the board and gets blown out of all proportion. Felix Jones on the bench, Zebo, Toner v Henderson, Duncan fncking Casey, Zebo, Madigan v Jackson, Zebo etc - looks like the centres will fulfil that role this time. It's gonna get nasty.

We'll have to wait and see what happens with Sexton. Madigan v Jackson has the legs to overpower the centre argument.

The 6 Nations is so different from the Pro 12 or even the World Cup in that there's no time to ease players in before it starts. Personally I'd love to see something new and different from Ireland this year but I'd want it to be working perfectly from the first match. Lose on day one and the whole campaign is probably over.

So realistically, barring injury to a few players, it's unlikely you'll see anyone new thrown in from the start. A new game plan is more likely but even then would it be drastically different when you've got the same coach and only a few training sessions to perfect it?

bilston

former total wrote: »

Just out of interest, who of the current XV is playing badly and should be replaced by someone better?

I know you aren't fan yet but Jackson is unquestionably playing better than Sexton (although no one seriously believes he will be picked over Sexton yet) and Payne is playing better than Kearney at FB. We have loads of options in the centre to facilitate Payne moving to FB. Henshaw can move to 13, Marshall can play 13 and Fitzgerald can play 13.

The problem/situation is Joe is already going to have to make 5 enforced enforced changes to the pack so it's that in mind I'd say he will keep the changes behind the scrum to an absolute minimum.

Pink Fairy

I tend to agree about Sexton, he's not playing well at all, he's getting far too many head injuries. I genuinely believe he should be sat down for a month or 2.
I see no point in putting his health at risk during the 6N when we have Jackson who is playing very well at the moment and out performing all our other options at the moment (imo)

CMOTDibbler

bilston wrote: »

I know you aren't fan yet but Jackson is unquestionably playing better than Sexton (although no one seriously believes he will be picked over Sexton yet) and Payne is playing better than Kearney at FB. We have loads of options in the centre to facilitate Payne moving to FB. Henshaw can move to 13, Marshall can play 13 and Fitzgerald can play 13.

The problem/situation is Joe is already going to have to make 5 enforced enforced changes to the pack so it's that in mind I'd say he will keep the changes behind the scrum to an absolute minimum.

The difficulty of moving Payne to full back is that it may actually weaken the team.

Yes, he may be a better full back than Kearney; though that's not proven at international level, but then we have to bring in another centre (McCloskey seems the favourite) which would then mean Henshaw moving to 13. So what you end up with is three players playing in different positions to what they're used to for Ireland with the addition of an uncapped inexperienced 12 playing outside Sexton for the first time.

So the queston is, does moving Payne to full back strengthen or weaken the team? I would suggest it weakens it.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

The difficulty of moving Payne to full back is that it may actually weaken the team.

Yes, he may be a better full back than Kearney; though that's not proven at international level, but then we have to bring in another centre (McCloskey seems the favourite) which would then mean Henshaw moving to 13. So what you end up with is three players playing in different positions to what they're used to for Ireland with the addition of an uncapped inexperienced 12 playing outside Sexton for the first time.

So the queston is, does moving Payne to full back strengthen or weaken the team? I would suggest it weakens it.

That's where you play Jackson instead of Sexton. Problem solved

Sinbad_NI

12 SMcC 13 Hen > 12 Hen 13 Payne.
Play the beat guys in their best position that they are most familiar with.

CMOTDibbler

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

That's where you play Jackson instead of Sexton. Problem solved

So four changes made to facilitate Payne moving to full back :eek:

Any advance on four? :pac:

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

So four changes made to facilitate Payne moving to full back :eek:

Any advance on four? :pac:

Marshall at 13 so McCloskey has players he's used to either side of him.

swiwi_

former total wrote: »

Just out of interest, who of the current XV is playing badly and should be replaced by someone better?

Ah FT, don't ever stop! There is no way I'm going to get involved in an unwinnable debate over our subjective views as to who are the best 7 to wear 9 to 15 for Ireland. Just need IBF to ask me the same Q and I'd have the quinella!

My understanding is you favour (and feel Schmidt will largely favour) from 9 to 15 Murray, Sexton, DK, Henshaw, Payne, ?Trimble (I can't recall your views on 14) and RK.

And I would beg to differ there are better combinations on offer.

And that's where I'll leave it.

Maybe someone else will take up your offer...

Zzippy

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Unless I'm mistaken Kiss played Payne at 13 regularly the last time he was in charge at Ulster

Unless I'm mistaken he didn't have Marshall fit or in the form he is in at the moment available to him then. Now that he has, where is he playing Payne?

wp_rathead

ionadnapokot wrote: »

Henshaw has been immense for Ireland the past couple of seasons and I completely agree the players are doing what they are told. But JS has looked at what the players are good at and based game plan on that. It has to be said that Henshaws passing is not his strongest assets.
The previous game plans made sense, for the most part( Welsh games? Case in point), but I believe he now has options in the centre (& Ringrose!), and to a much lesser extent at fb that can enable change to a quicker wider attacking game that will also hopefully look to attack the space on turnover ball and kick return.

Henshaw set up two tries yesterday with some beautiful passing - and just look at his offload for Bundee in Thomond
He is a fine destributer of the ball - i agree we havn't always seen it in the Irish jersey though. Hopefully he is given 13 jersey and Payne 15

CMOTDibbler

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Marshall at 13 so McCloskey has players he's used to either side of him.

Any way we can get Pienaar or Paul Marshall on the pitch so that Paddy has a scrum half he's used to as well?

ionadnapokot

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

I dont think he does, or that we need change. You can improve by getting better at what you are already doin. Making fewer mistakes, executing the game plan more clinically, improving the decision making of all and geling as a team.
Joe wont change what he has been doing very successfully, rather polish it to make it even more effective.
We have no BOD, Paulie, Hickie. So no point just going for the next best available in that style: you build your gameplan to best exploit the skills of the players available.
If McCloskey or Ringrose come on as we might hope, then maybe a different plan another day. But for the moment, its a qustion of exploiting Rob, Payne, Henchie, etc and their attributes. Kick it put of your own half, chase, put up contestibles on the opposition 22, force penalties, create mismatches, choke tackles. And most importaantly, concede nothing.
I think we can win this 6N. G Slam even. Infact, I think we have a better chance than each of the last two yeara. So hopefully we leave fantasies of forwards offloadong in open play, and backs playing intricate risky plays off the agenda, and keep it tight, and win the kicks in the air. Its ours for the taking.

I think Ireland would be naive if they don't change. JS is not naive. He has more options now. So I live in hope!

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

Any way we can get Pienaar or Paul Marshall on the pitch so that Paddy has a scrum half he's used to as well?

I thought we could maybe get Pienaar to grow his hair out a bit and adopt a sort of permanently confused look so we could pass him off as Murray.

former total

bilston wrote: »

I know you aren't fan yet but Jackson is unquestionably playing better than Sexton (although no one seriously believes he will be picked over Sexton yet) and Payne is playing better than Kearney at FB. We have loads of options in the centre to facilitate Payne moving to FB. Henshaw can move to 13, Marshall can play 13 and Fitzgerald can play 13.

The problem/situation is Joe is already going to have to make 5 enforced enforced changes to the pack so it's that in mind I'd say he will keep the changes behind the scrum to an absolute minimum.

No argument re Sexton, he's been pretty rubbish and is behind both the others on form. Payne can't be considered to be playing better than RK solely on the basis of yesterday though.

As you say though, all these suggestions require major surgery that is simply not going to happen with a short run in to a must win game.

.ak

phog wrote: »

Wales is the banana skin this season, first game and at home, traditionally, home games are easier win but Wales proved how strong they were in the RWC with probably more injuries than we had.

I think Joe will go with his tried and trusted and any changes will be forced by injury. Form hasn't been used by Joe in selecting any of his teams so far so I can't see him starting now.

No coach should experiment against the likes of Wales. The only question in my mind is who starts at 11. Right now it's between earls and DK, with Fitzgerald an outside chance but Fitz is looking like a prime candidate for the 23 jersey because of how much he's been moved around.

Italy this year is a great opportunity to give the likes of Stander and McCloskey a start.

So with that in mind, my 23 for Wales;

R.Kearney
Trimble
Payne
Henshaw
D.Kearney
Sexton
Murray
Heaslip
SOB
Ruddock
McCarthy
Toner
White
Best
McGrath

Cronin
Cronin
Furlong
Ryan
Henry
Reddan
Madigan
Fitzgerald

Unfortunately we're a bit bare in the front row. I think they'll target our set piece in a big way, we're missing some of our best players in that regards; POC, Ross and Healy (when in form).

I have faith in the starting front row but I think Cronin and furlong, whilst brilliant players, are lacking that experience we expect from our front rowers.

awec

Is it really "experimenting" to play the guy who has been the best 12 in Ireland all season at 12, and move the guy who is actually a 13 to 13?

It's mad.

We can't make against Wales. Then we won't be able to make changes against France away. Then you can't make changes away to England. Scotland at home, sure we might be playing for something by then so we can't be making any changes. And against Italy we can't make changes either incase something goes wrong.

We have to get over our fear of changing a side.

IMO, Ireland's best back line is Murray, Sexton, Earls, McCloskey, Henshaw, Trimble, Payne. This is a back line capable of beating anyone in the 6 nations, a fact that seems often forgotten. To read here sometimes you would think Ireland couldn't possibly win a game without Payne at 13 or RK at 15.

awec

Is it really "experimenting" to play the guy who has been the best 12 in Ireland all season at 12, and move the guy who is actually a 13 to 13?

It's mad.

We can't make against Wales. Then we won't be able to make changes against France away. Then you can't make changes away to England. Scotland at home, sure we might be playing for something by then so we can't be making any changes. And against Italy we can't make changes either incase something goes wrong.

We have to get over our fear of changing a side.

IMO, Ireland's best back line is Murray, Sexton, Earls, McCloskey, Henshaw, Trimble, Payne. This is a back line capable of beating anyone in the 6 nations, a fact that seems often forgotten. To read here sometimes you would think Ireland couldn't possibly win a game without Payne at 13 or RK at 15.

brianp20

Henshaw played all last season for Connacht at inside centre with Aki outside him. Yesterday he played outside with Aki inside, even though Aki has played most of his rugby this season with 13 on his back with Ronaldson at 12. Strange to see them change positions, did Schmidt have anything to do with it or am I reading too much into it?

awec

awec wrote: »

Is it really "experimenting" to play the guy who has been the best 12 in Ireland all season at 12, and move the guy who is actually a 13 to 13?

It's mad.

Totally agree with you, McCloskey has been excellent this season and he should be in the team. This forum should run for the Republican US Presidential nomination, it's more conservative than all the candidates combined.