ASTI reject Lansdowne Road Agreement.

Subutai

katydid wrote: »

Yes, and that was done as far as possible without compromising the existing conditions. I'm baffled that you would imagine that union members would volunteer for even more pay cuts on top of the ones they had already had, giving the government the excuse to keep the pay of ALL teachers at a low level.

That's a complete false dichotomy. The choice before teachers was never "sacrifice the newbies" vs. "sacrifice yourselves". It was fight vs. capitulate, and they chose the latter because the capitulation did not, in this case, effect their own bottom line.

Alex Meier

Subutai wrote: »

That's a complete false dichotomy. The choice before teachers was never "sacrifice the newbies" vs. "sacrifice yourselves". It was fight vs. capitulate, and they chose the latter because the capitulation did not, in this case, effect their own bottom line.

There was no choice given to teachers (or any other public servants) on the issue of cutting PS for new PS workers.

This was a political choice made by Labour and FG.

What interests me is that they also made a political choice to restore the Christmas Bonus for those on welfare (to 75% of what it was) . . . and are expecting us to carry on as "normal".

That's the level of respect we're dealing with here

katydid

Subutai wrote: »

That's a complete false dichotomy. The choice before teachers was never "sacrifice the newbies" vs. "sacrifice yourselves". It was fight vs. capitulate, and they chose the latter because the capitulation did not, in this case, effect their own bottom line.

The dichotomy was between fighting on several fronts and losing, and picking one's battles.

happywithlife

On a slightly different tack - but a union question nonetheless. I was with ASTI but left my membership lapse last year as I was out of work for personal reasons and had a terribly stressful family situation which took all my energies/focus. Keeping on top of union subscription unfortunately fell way down my list of priorities. I never heard from them but presume my membership has been revoked at this stage. Thing is I'm now back teaching but in a TUI school. I'm interested in joining a union but know you can't switch during a dispute. Can I still join TUI? Or do I have to stick with ASTI even though they don't have negotiating rights in my school? Any advice welcome

deiseindublin

happywithlife wrote: »

On a slightly different tack - but a union question nonetheless. I was with ASTI but left my membership lapse last year as I was out of work for personal reasons and had a terribly stressful family situation which took all my energies/focus. Keeping on top of union subscription unfortunately fell way down my list of priorities. I never heard from them but presume my membership has been revoked at this stage. Thing is I'm now back teaching but in a TUI school. I'm interested in joining a union but know you can't switch during a dispute. Can I still join TUI? Or do I have to stick with ASTI even though they don't have negotiating rights in my school? Any advice welcome

Contact TUI and tell them you're in a TUI school now and would rather join a union that has neg. rights. You won't know unless you ask.

joebloggs32

deiseindublin wrote: »

Contact TUI and tell them you're in a TUI school now and would rather join a union that has neg. rights. You won't know unless you ask.

There is an issue with joining one if you are in arrears with the other.
Contact the ASTI first and inform them you were not working last year. As you had no wage then arrears built up should be wrote off.
You should then be ok to join the TUI as it must be an ETB you are now in. Were you in a C&C school the rule about moving during a dispute would prevent you from moving at the moment.

PS ring the ASTI tomorrow as you are now back working and so they may expect dues for the last two months, even if you're in an ETB school.

Benicetomonty

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/parents-group-voices-concern-over-school-closure-threat-1.2403758

There's that 'R' word at the end of this article...(reballot). Expect we'll hear it a lot in the next couple of months

Alex Meier

Benicetomonty wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/parents-group-voices-concern-over-school-closure-threat-1.2403758

There's that 'R' word at the end of this article...(reballot). Expect we'll hear it a lot in the next couple of months

Yep. . Democracy Irish style - Keep balloting until you come up with the right result.

King is an fücking disgrace considering his comments that teachers were ignorant of what they were voting for.

Procedure is exactly the same as the last time when Haddington Road rejected:

1 - Rejected by members in a ballot
2 - DES issues threats to the media which are then printed (previously it was the Independent as John Walshe was Quinn's "advisor"). This time it's the Irish Times.
3 - Pat King uses the "s" word - strike. As he knows that teachers don't want strikes. . .
4 - Then the ASTI and the DES announce "further talks" . . All window dressing whereby they end after a couple of days with the same "agreement"
5 - The new "agreement" requires a re-ballot as claims are made that the other ballot was on the old "agreement"
6 - If rejected then back to step 2.

In the end no one asks why teachers voted NO in the first place because no one - neither the DES, Pat King or the unions - cares.

Now get the fück up to those classrooms to do your unpaid S&S as we've got a Christmas Bonus to give out.

2011abc

No 'personalised attacks ' now Alex ! They can facilitate putting teachers on the dole and forcing them to emigrate , then turn on the crocodile tears when it suits .Wonder how much of ASTI subs will be spent on his 'gold watch' .Glad not a cent of my money will be spent on it .Painfully clear after today that whatever he's 'due' for arranging previous HRA votes to be rammed through there's another 'tranche' of it on the table after today's shenanigans .

D4RK ONION

2011abc wrote: »

No 'personalised attacks ' now Alex ! They can facilitate putting teachers on the dole and forcing them to emigrate , then turn on the crocodile tears when it suits .Wonder how much of ASTI subs will be spent on his 'gold watch' .Glad not a cent of my money will be spent on it .Painfully clear after today that whatever he's 'due' for arranging previous HRA votes to be rammed through there's another 'tranche' of it on the table after today's shenanigans .

Honestly can't tell if this is a joke or a thinly veiled stab at moderation on this board. If it's the former, then many apologies to you. If it's the latter, allow me to clarify that criticising public figures (unless it is complete slander) is not against the charter. Thanks!

political analyst

Benicetomonty wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/parents-group-voices-concern-over-school-closure-threat-1.2403758

There's that 'R' word at the end of this article...(reballot). Expect we'll hear it a lot in the next couple of months

If there has been no discussion of the possibility of a reballot, then there's no plan for a reballot.

deiseindublin

I laughed at the part where they said the confidential document was leaked. I think planted would be a better word, obviously Mr King isn't getting things his own way and is scaremongering in the hope that these disobedient teachers will fold.

political analyst

deiseindublin wrote: »

I laughed at the part where they said the confidential document was leaked. I think planted would be a better word, obviously Mr King isn't getting things his own way and is scaremongering in the hope that these disobedient teachers will fold.

He's retiring and he'll probably get a good pension. So what motive does he have to scaremonger?

deiseindublin

I presume it doesn't look good for the 'boss' not to be listened to. He definitely hasn't got his team behind him.

Alex Meier

political analyst wrote: »

He's retiring and he'll probably get a good pension. So what motive does he have to scaremonger?

Look at former ASTI GS. . . Kieran Mulvey.

Headed off on a plethora of QUANGOS. . . Now on some sports council.

He's King's idol I'd say.

King knows who his masters are and it isn't the people paying his 140K wage.

km79

political analyst wrote: »

He's retiring and he'll probably get a good pension. So what motive does he have to scaremonger?

retiring ?
he won't be retiring .
His motivations for YES votes have been questioned time and again here by many
Even when SC and CEC were recommending NO votes I seen him in action promoting YES. He denied it of course..........well now we have it from the man himself.
He has not had our interests in mind for many years. He has his own

political analyst

Alex Meier wrote: »

Look at former ASTI GS. . . Kieran Mulvey.

Headed off on a plethora of QUANGOS. . . Now on some sports council.

He's King's idol I'd say.

King knows who his masters are and it isn't the people paying his 140K wage.

But Mulvey, unlike King, was never a teacher. Do teachers not stick together in a crisis? What happened to collegiality?

2011abc

D4RK ONION wrote: »

Honestly can't tell if this is a joke or a thinly veiled stab at moderation on this board. If it's the former, then many apologies to you. If it's the latter, allow me to clarify that criticising public figures (unless it is complete slander) is not against the charter. Thanks!

No,stab at moderators , yes it's criticism of a public figure .

2011abc

political analyst wrote: »

But Mulvey, unlike King, was never a teacher. Do teachers not stick together in a crisis? What happened to collegiality?

What has he got to gain as he's retiring ?Do teachers not stick together ?

Two fairly naive posts Political Analyst .Youre not a teacher ,right ? Enda Kenny was though , do you think he has stuck by 'us' ?

2011abc

km79 wrote: »

retiring ?
he won't be retiring .
His motivations for YES votes have been questioned time and again here by many
Even when SC and CEC were recommending NO votes I seen him in action promoting YES. He denied it of course..........well now we have it from the man himself.
He has not had our interests in mind for many years. He has his own

Yes today is the low point in a bad decade for ASTI . It's not good enough to have him retire 'with full honours and maybe the union will gradually evolve .The last fella was got rid of even if he had to be bought out and he did less harm to teachers and Our conditions and to people who know that story THATS saying something !!!

joebloggs32

I'm in the TUI and I knew full well what a no vote would mean. We were bullied by the government into the last two agreements who didn't want to waste a crises.
This time the crises is over. FEMPI needs to be tested in the courts. The government is always cocking up legislation. I'd love to see them arguing the need for emergency powers while shouting from the roof tops about the economy during the election.
I will not vote for any agreement that does not in some way close the gap between the new and old pay scales. If the public see us voting against pay rises they might see how badly we and especially our NQT's have been treated.

political analyst

2011abc wrote: »

What has he got to gain as he's retiring ?Do teachers not stick together ?

Two fairly naive posts Political Analyst .Youre not a teacher ,right ? Enda Kenny was though , do you think he has stuck by 'us' ?

Alright. Fair enough.

As for what has he to gain from retirement, well, it's a good pension, of course.

gaiscioch

joebloggs32 wrote: »

This time the crises is over. FEMPI needs to be tested in the courts. The government is always cocking up legislation. I'd love to see them arguing the need for emergency powers while shouting from the roof tops about the economy during the election.

Well said. I couldn't agree more and I'd especially welcome the publicisation of examples of how utterly pointless and vindictive are the Croke Park hours. And don't forget they've increased the pensions of former government ministers while seeking to extend this so-called financial emergency legislation upon us. Very shaky foundations indeed.

gaiscioch

I don't think anybody has mentioned it yet but the Association of Garda Sergeants and Inspectors (AGSI) as well as the Irish Medical Organisation have also voted against acceptance of the Lansdowne Road Agreement. Despite the scaremongering propaganda from Joe Humphreys/Martin Wall/The Irish Times, ASTI and TUI members are not alone. Just a thought but perhaps all four unions could start cooperating in resisting this pointless vindictive nonsense from this current government?

Garda Sergeants vote to reject €2,000 public sector pay deal (16 Oct 2015)

political analyst

gaiscioch wrote: »

I don't think anybody has mentioned it yet but the Association of Garda Sergeants and Inspectors (AGSI) as well as the Irish Medical Organisation have also voted against acceptance of the Lansdowne Road Agreement. Despite the scaremongering propaganda from Joe Humphreys/Martin Wall/The Irish Times, ASTI and TUI members are not alone. Just a thought but perhaps all four unions could start cooperating in resisting this pointless vindictive nonsense from this current government?

Garda Sergeants vote to reject €2,000 public sector pay deal (16 Oct 2015)

The AGSI is a staff association, not a union.

gaiscioch

Along with the AGSI above some 86% of the 10,000 GRA voters have just rejected the Lansdowne Road Agreement:

Gardaí reject Lansdowne Road Agreement

Another massive rejection of these Idiot Hours.

evolving_doors

political analyst wrote: »

The AGSI is a staff association, not a union.

Blue flu anyone???

I think it's very obvious that the Gardai are being pushed to the pin of their collar in terms of workload/understaffing too, so something has got to give there. Maybe not as soon as teachers but if nothing is sorted after the next election then I think there will be action taken.

Alex Meier

gaiscioch wrote: »

Another massive rejection of these Idiot Hours.

When I spent two and a half hours in a recent Croke Park meeting discussing "School Ethos" … that was apparently saving the state millions.

^^^^^^^^
Sarcasm.

evolving_doors

Alex Meier wrote: »

When I spent two and a half hours in a recent Croke Park meeting discussing "School Ethos" … that was apparently saving the state millions.

^^^^^^^^
Sarcasm.

And I'll bet you were none the wiser as to what the school ethos was after the event too.... something something student centered holistic education community something something tradition.

ethical

Is it not totally disgraceful the way 'retired' teachers are on the Croke Park gravy train going around doing the after school circuit.Traitors in all senses,no respect shown for their former colleagues!