Extra "free" preschool year

mirrorwall14

Ok I don't get any of this! I had a baby in january 2015 (ie this year). What am I looking at in terms of options? I would assume he should start school at 4 years 8 months rather than 5 years 8 months which would make him nearly 6

RentDayBlues

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

Ok I don't get any of this! I had a baby in january 2015 (ie this year). What am I looking at in terms of options? I would assume he should start school at 4 years 8 months rather than 5 years 8 months which would make him nearly 6

Mine is February and I'm not keeping her off school until she's 5 1/2, she's a second child and she'd go now if she could! I think if they're more 4 1/2 consider sending them, but it's down to each individual child.

mirrorwall14

So how will you be running the "Free" preschool rentdayblues? This is my first baby so I've no idea how this stuff works

RentDayBlues

Suucee wrote: »

My daughter was doing 2 days a week in preschool since sept. I was paying. She would have been eligible for free yr since she was 3yrs 4mnths in sept but i had planned on starting school at 5.4. So now we are going to get a refund for what we paid already. The preschool doesnt have space for 5 days but will give her 3 under the ecce. Im happy with that though. Then next yr she will do it again 5 days a week.

I thought in order to qualify for ecce it had to be full time, not part time.

moving_home

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

Ok I don't get any of this! I had a baby in january 2015 (ie this year). What am I looking at in terms of options? I would assume he should start school at 4 years 8 months rather than 5 years 8 months which would make him nearly 6

I'm sending my January baby at 4 and 8 months ie 2019. I don't know exactly but I think with the way the eligibility criteria works we will only be able to send them from the April intake so if we sending them at 4+8 they will only get 12 weeks from April - June 2018. Then will get the full year from Sept 2018 - June 2019. And start school September 2019.

cyning

Sorry Succee!

Ya basically babies born Jan - March are entitled to the longest amount of free time. If you look at the (second!) link I posted that's what Early Childhood Ireland are saying anyway. So for S it will be starting in April 2017 and going to school Sept 2019. Again details are still sketchy though.

For me id prefer to have them being 5/5.5 but like everything else it's personal preference 😊

Moonbeam

This sums up the weeks easier.

http://www.dcya.gov.ie/viewdoc.asp?DocID=1143 might help too.

RentDayBlues

But the issue is that most montessori's won't be able to take in students at any time of the year other than September, is it not the case that they allocate a percentage of spaces for ecce and the rest for full fees?

So for us that means that we were going to send our youngest part time in September 2016, but now with this supposed second year we won't be able to get anyone to take the other part of the week and pay for it when they could otherwise get it free if they went full time. We're looking at having to pay for a full time place from September for a full year and then get the one free ecce year as we're not holding her back for school until she's 5 1/2. Likewise it doesn't make sense to keep her at home for that year or find somewhere else when her sister is already in the school.

Moonbeam

I don't think that there will be many kids left paying full fees,I also think in most places all ECCE places will be gone in the Sept.
I currently pay for my sons place and paid for a year each for the girls pre ecce too.

Suucee

RentDayBlues wrote:

I thought in order to qualify for ecce it had to be full time, not part time.

So did i. But i think we have been allowed as she is already in the preschool but there just wasnt a full time place available. The pre school runs the risk of losing 6 students. As they all qualified for this year but deferred until next yr in order to start school at 5. We had all been paying for part time up until now. now the second ecce yr was brought in we are taking up this years place.

RentDayBlues

Suucee wrote: »

So did i. But i think we have been allowed as she is already in the preschool but there just wasnt a full time place available. The pre school runs the risk of losing 6 students. As they all qualified for this year but deferred until next yr in order to start school at 5. We had all been paying for part time up until now. now the second ecce yr was brought in we are taking up this years place.

That works well for you. Our pre school is the opposite, they are now in the position of having to cancel on students for next year as some current students will stay on for another year. They're not going to increase the number of students so people are losing out here. We're not as bad as othera but its annoying that something meant to save us money will actually cost us more money now, typical government

angeldelight

Thanks for the chart Moonbeam, that simplifies it a lot! Looks like it actually won't make a difference to us. Our little girl was born end of April and when speaking to the school when enrolling her they said most kids they have starting are 4 so if we do same we'll still only get the one year

pwurple

I have to say, I'd hate to be someone running a preschool with this system. Children starting in January, April, September, but all ending in June. confused parents, staff requirements ramping up and down again all year. Who on earth is just going to want to work only from April to June when the max children are there?

The assumption from the govt is of course that the parents will have to stump up the rest of the year's cost in Creche fees to the same facility. But I know that not all crèches are preschools.

Also, age 3 can have a various range of abilities with children. There are two purpose built ECCE preschools near me. Neither have baby changing rooms, the children need to be fully toilet trained. But I know plenty of 3 year old's are still a bit funny about toilets at that age. They get a lead in, but it must piss them off to have the goalposts moved like this without consultation.

sillysocks

It frustrates me that this has been billed as the childcare part of the budget. While it will save us money as we had planned on sending our youngest for 2 years to Montessori and would have paid for part time the first year, how does this help parents who are working really?

Unless you have childcare that's a pre-school and then crèche it actually adds to the dropping and collecting, and what do people who work do for afternoons and school holidays then? Still paying through the roof for childcare for those times.

Originally we had planned part time for the first year and could have worked that around family who work part time and could collect him, but I assume now the Montessori will only want full time kids.

Sorry I'm rambling and probably not making much sense!

Moonbeam

It helps people that are working full time as they get a portion of their creche and some childminders cost paid for 2 years instead 1.

pwurple

Moonbeam wrote: »

It helps people that are working full time as they get a portion of their creche and some childminders cost paid for 2 years instead 1.

Only if the Creche is also a preschool, AND doesn't require additional enrolment to keep staff employed, AND the parents want to keep the child in preschool until they are nearly six AND they were born in whatever birthday window allows it.

Talk about needlessly complicated.

Would a tax credit or just plain adding a second year not have been easier?

Anyway, I'll hold my moaning for the TD's who knock n the door, with the rest of my list. :> It's better than nothing.

Moonbeam

I would love an extra tax credit for the kids,we pay so much tax and i feel that we don't get a lot in return for it.

unklerosco

pwurple wrote: »

I have to say, I'd hate to be someone running a preschool with this system. Children starting in January, April, September, but all ending in June. confused parents, staff requirements ramping up and down again all year. Who on earth is just going to want to work only from April to June when the max children are there?

My wife runs a preschool, I don't think you're going to see what you mentioned happening.. (just to be clear, I only knows the basics of the system) Children won't be starting in Jan/April, I think what you'll find is parents will start their children in September and pay until Jan/April when it switches to ECCE.

Along with that you'll have parents looking for a part time place until the ECCE kicks in. I can see preschools not taking part time places, it may be the case that if you want a place you will have to take a full time spot until the ECCE kicks in.

As someone mentioned for some parents this will actually cost them more money... It's a beautiful example of Irish over-complication..

RentDayBlues

unklerosco wrote: »

My wife runs a preschool, I don't think you're going to see what you mentioned happening.. (just to be clear, I only knows the basics of the system) Children won't be starting in Jan/April, I think what you'll find is parents will start their children in September and pay until Jan/April when it switches to ECCE.

Along with that you'll have parents looking for a part time place until the ECCE kicks in. I can see preschools not taking part time places, it may be the case that if you want a place you will have to take a full time spot until the ECCE kicks in.

As someone mentioned for some parents this will actually cost them more money... It's a beautiful example of Irish over-complication..

But is it not also true that most playschools only take a certain number of ecce as they don't get as much for this as normal full time? Our school will no longer take part time

Millem

RentDayBlues wrote: »

But is it not also true that most playschools only take a certain number of ecce as they don't get as much for this as normal full time? Our school will no longer take part time

I have come across a few stand alone montessorris (who are attached to a junior school in south dublin) who have a fee even though it is finishing at 12.30! And it is in €2k+ per year and it is not optional. They said it's because they supervise kids from 8/8.15. But it is probably because the government money is not enough.

Moonbeam

RentDayBlues wrote: »

But is it not also true that most playschools only take a certain number of ecce as they don't get as much for this as normal full time? Our school will no longer take part time

An example of fees in a fantastic play/pre school/montessori - http://www.tiddlywinksandscallywags.ie/#membership

Some play schools only have ecce kids ,some mix it.

unklerosco

RentDayBlues wrote: »

But is it not also true that most playschools only take a certain number of ecce as they don't get as much for this as normal full time? Our school will no longer take part time

Nope.. We've always had a mix of Ecce and non Ecce. You do loose out as the Ecce payment is generally less than what you'd normally charge but that's just the way it is. If you only took Ecce children on the current system I think you'd find it hard to fill your school as you'd only ever have children in your school for one year. My wife always has children in for at least two years.

Regarding top up payments for Ecce. They're voluntary, any school that tells you other wise should be reported to the dcya. What I see some schools do is have a 3.5hr day and charge extra for the last 30 mins. It's not compulsory so you can collect your kids after 3hrs or pay an extra couple of euro for the extra time. It's the fairest way of implementing voluntary top up as far as I can see.

Just to note, my wife normally charges €75 a week and under the Ecce gets €63 a week so looses €12 per child.. With 10 children that's €120 less a week she makes. Believe me, she doesn't do this job for the money..

Immy

In the montessori we pay a voluntary contribution when kids are on ECCE. So far i haven't come across a parent who doesn't pay it. The school is run to a very high standard.

Moonbeam

" Rates

There is no charge to parents for the playschool or daycare hours provided under the ECCE scheme. The State capitation fee pays the playschool or daycare service to provide these ECCE hours. However, if your child attends for extra hours, you will have to pay for these extra hours in the normal way.

A service may charge parents for extra activities. However, these must be optional and the service must provide other appropriate activities to children who don’t take part in the optional activity being charged for.

Booking deposits

The service may ask you for a booking deposit, which cannot be more than four times the weekly capitation fee (see below). Any deposit you pay must be repaid to you by the end of October of the year your child starts.

Capitation rates for service providers

For providers of daycare and sessional services, the weekly capitation fee is generally €62.50 over 38 weeks.

Daycare and sessional playschools with more highly qualified staff may be able to qualify for a higher capitation fee of €73 per week over 38 weeks."

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/education/pre_school_education_and_childcare/early_childhood_care_and_education_scheme.html#l1f4da

uck51js9zml2yt

Had my son in Montessori for 2_years and paid 65 PW during the first year for 15 hours PW.

John Mason

pwurple wrote: »

Only if the Creche is also a preschool, AND doesn't require additional enrolment to keep staff employed, AND the parents want to keep the child in preschool until they are nearly six AND they were born in whatever birthday window allows it.

.

It helps me. Monkey is in full-time childcare and will get his full 2 years. there are very few places who don't do ECCE at this stage.

I am more concerned that the min. wage increase will have a knock effect on crèche fees!!

uli84

John Mason wrote: »

I am more concerned that the min. wage increase will have a knock effect on crèche fees!!

True that for me its unfortunate as if i wanted to avail of the extra year id have to send my son to school at 5 and a half which i think is a bit late for him.

John Mason

uli84 wrote: »

True that for me its unfortunate as if i wanted to avail of the extra year id have to send my son to school at 5 and a half which i think is a bit late for him.

my boy is going to 5.5 going to school - it will absolutely stand to him when he is older.

RentDayBlues

John Mason wrote: »

my boy is going to 5.5 going to school - it will absolutely stand to him when he is older.

It completely depends on the child, my first will definitely need to be 5 before school, but my second definitely won't wait til 5 1/2, she has an older sister who she is learning everything from at such as ecceralted pace.

I also think being 19 and still in school could be hard, but then I was the opposite and did my leaving at 17, like I said it depends on the child

uck51js9zml2yt

RentDayBlues wrote: »

It completely depends on the child, my first will definitely need to be 5 before school, but my second definitely won't wait til 5 1/2, she has an older sister who she is learning everything from at such as ecceralted pace.

I also think being 19 and still in school could be hard, but then I was the opposite and did my leaving at 17, like I said it depends on the child

Im not sure being older is a problem. In slovakia kids start school at 7 and are more able to handle the 7 or 8 am start (_depending on the school)