Extra "free" preschool year

unklerosco

PLL wrote:

Anyhow I was just chatting about how the scheme worked and she was explaining how some kids will get more time than others due to when birthdays fall etc. She said she didn't understand why they didn't just give the extra hours created for a second year to current year, so parents could get a free year of full time childcare! Wouldn't that make so much more sense!

The idea is to give children 2 years of education before they start in school instead of free childcare.. Hence the reason and pre school taking part has to have qualified staff and follow a curriculum... It means that in a few years all children will start primary school at the same level. Whereas now you've children that have spent two years in montessori etc. starting with children who haven't... Can mean a big difference in the level of abilities of children in jnr/snr infants..

Sligo1

unklerosco wrote: »

The idea is to give children 2 years of education before they start in school instead of free childcare.. Hence the reason and pre school taking part has to have qualified staff and follow a curriculum... It means that in a few years all children will start primary school at the same level. Whereas now you've children that have spent two years in montessori etc. starting with children who haven't... Can mean a big difference in the level of abilities of children in jnr/snr infants..

But what about the crèche that are high scope then? They follow same curriculum but have different methods principles etc. my son is in monte and my daughter high scope. Tbh I find his monte much better and much more structured. I don't like the high scope methodology at Allan's dont feel it nurtures the abilities nearly as much as the monte. However, the high scope crèche is ECCE and the monte is not. The teachers in the monte have more qualifications than the crèche as far as I can see aswell...

lazygal

Sligo1 wrote: »

But what about the crèche that are high scope then? They follow same curriculum but have different methods principles etc. my son is in monte and my daughter high scope. Tbh I find his monte much better and much more structured. I don't like the high scope methodology at Allan's dont feel it nurtures the abilities nearly as much as the monte. However, the high scope crèche is ECCE and the monte is not. The teachers in the monte have more qualifications than the crèche as far as I can see aswell...

I've studied both Montessori and High Scope, and Montessori is far more structured and has a solid foundation behind it. There's a structured programme for each child in Montessori. For example, this year my child will be doing work in terms of maths, language etc that will progress to more difficult work in the second year, while in the meantime new children are facilitated within the same classroom. For those who think their children will be bored or won't benefit from a two year preschool programme, please ask the service what their plan in for the two years. No child should be bored or unstimulated in any preschool setting, and ECCE is about education, which should enable the child to progress rather than doing two years of the same work.

Millem

lazygal wrote: »

I've studied both Montessori and High Scope, and Montessori is far more structured and has a solid foundation behind it. There's a structured programme for each child in Montessori. For example, this year my child will be doing work in terms of maths, language etc that will progress to more difficult work in the second year, while in the meantime new children are facilitated within the same classroom. For those who think their children will be bored or won't benefit from a two year preschool programme, please ask the service what their plan in for the two years. No child should be bored or unstimulated in any preschool setting, and ECCE is about education, which should enable the child to progress rather than doing two years of the same work.

Lazygal I will be sending my son to monte but I have to saw I got a very "free" vibe. I would of considered it for his primary school due to the pupil teacher ratio. It was 2.5 years to 2nd class and accepted ecce. The principal explained it to me that say the child must work on say maths, English and science in the day. They pick up their card in the mornings. The child decides what part of each subject they do and when during the day. When I viewed it one little girl was having her snack with a little boy. This is all learning as learning social skills etc but children decide when they snack. Even the materials they used didn't seem the same as the crèche type monte. There were no toys like I have in my house! The children get a mat and do their "work" on it. My guy took a fancy to a box with cards!i one child had headphones on learning about dinosaurs. It seemed very advanced!! They were the group about the 2.5-3 year olds.
I have to say I loved the school. Totally child centred.

When I was on maternity leave I viewed a crèche and saw their monte room. It seemed totally different to the school I viewed. The crèche type one seemed very timetabled.

Sligo1

PM sent Lazygal

lazygal

I just pm'd you back now.

Millem

I just read through the new programme for government, it mentions providing extra ecce year and says the starting school age will be raised to 5.
It's on page 87/88.

So does that mean we (first half of the year babies) should be putting a year later on primary/secondary forms?

RentDayBlues

Millem wrote: »

I just read through the new programme for government, it mentions providing extra ecce year and says the starting school age will be raised to 5.
It's on page 87/88.

So does that mean we (first half of the year babies) should be putting a year later on primary/secondary forms?

It's an idea, if it come to fruition there will have to be a time line so that children currently in the system are not disadvantaged. My February baby will start montessori at 2yrs 7months and school at 4yrs 7months

Millem

RentDayBlues wrote: »

It's an idea, if it come to fruition there will have to be a time line so that children currently in the system are not disadvantaged. My February baby will start montessori at 2yrs 7months and school at 4yrs 7months

My guy starting Montessori in sept too at 2 years and almost 8 months!

RentDayBlues

Millem wrote: »

My guy starting Montessori in sept too at 2 years and almost 8 months!

Exactly, you know what the government are like with reform, it may affect our children's children!

iguana

I was reading through the current guidelines and a child can only start an ECCE year if they will be 5y6mo or less when the pre-school year ends. So children born from mid-September until December/January have to start school before 5 as they can't start a preschool year in the September before their 5th birthday. My son will be starting preschool this September aged 3y9.5mo. If at the end of his preschool year I decide it would be in his best interests to defer his primary school start date until 2018, I can't give him a second free year as he'll be roughly 3 weeks too old when the summer term ends. So he pretty much has to start school when he is 4, unless I decide to keep him out/pay for a preschool year.

Millem

iguana wrote: »

I was reading through the current guidelines and a child can only start an ECCE year if they will be 5y6mo or less when the pre-school year ends. So children born from mid-September until December/January have to start school before 5 as they can't start a preschool year in the September before their 5th birthday. My son will be starting preschool this September aged 3y9.5mo. If at the end of his preschool year I decide it would be in his best interests to defer his primary school start date until 2018, I can't give him a second free year as he'll be roughly 3 weeks too old when the summer term ends. So he pretty much has to start school when he is 4, unless I decide to keep him out/pay for a preschool year.

The 1st Jan-31st March kids get april-june, sept-June and another sept June under ecce. My guy would be 5 years and 7.5 months.

I am guessing it will work similar to French school where it is the year they turn 5 but French school is year they turn 3. The year is Jan-Dec but school starts in September. My guy would go at 3 and 7.5 months whereas Dec child would go at 2 and 8.5 months.

Sligo1

So when is this coming in? Is it going to effect out children who are already 2??

Millem

Sligo1 wrote: »

So when is this coming in? Is it going to effect out children who are already 2??

I got impression it was coming in for our kids? As they are getting the extra ecce? Tbh in the schools near me end of Feburary birthday was cut off as demand was so high. I just always thought my January baby would go in 2018!!!

tickingclock

I'm totally confused now. I've a toddler born in January 2014. I haven't thought about when she would start school. I assumed it would be Sept 2018 aged 4 years and 8 months. Does this new document suggest it should be Sept 2019?

Millem

No year is specified. The exact wording is "introducing a second preschool year which will help prepare young children further for starting school, raising the starting age to 5 years".
They are also "increasing mandatory schooling to age 17".

I am assuming it will be for us as our kids are getting the extra year of ecce. My sis had already decided to leave niece who is June baby until she is 5. She will get 2 full ecce years.
The sept-dec babies get the least amount of ecce.

Millem

Rentdayblues is it not really just saying everyone has to take the extra ecce year provided? I think the sept-dec babies will always start as 4 as the year will be jan-dec you turn 5.

RentDayBlues

Millem wrote: »

Rentdayblues is it not really just saying everyone has to take the extra ecce year provided? I think the sept-dec babies will always start as 4 as the year will be jan-dec you turn 5.

Sorry, deleted comment as it was based on old age information pre sept 2016.

I just can't see how they can enforce it for our babies from 2014, people have plans in place etc. I'm assuming if it came in it would include a year of entry to school, so for example 2020. That way it would only effect children currently not taking up ecce in 2016/2016. This gives a chance to clear the current batch and start afresh.

We could use the 88 weeks of free ecce but I cannot imagine mine being 5yrs 7months starting school, she'd be 19 doing leaving and what if she needed to repeat a year?

tickingclock

Millem wrote: »

No year is specified. The exact wording is "introducing a second preschool year which will help prepare young children further for starting school, raising the starting age to 5 years".
They are also "increasing mandatory schooling to age 17".

I am assuming it will be for us as our kids are getting the extra year of ecce. My sis had already decided to leave niece who is June baby until she is 5. She will get 2 full ecce years.
The sept-dec babies get the least amount of ecce.

Thanks for clarifying that!

dori_dormer

RentDayBlues wrote: »

Sorry, deleted comment as it was based on old age information pre sept 2016.

I just can't see how they can enforce it for our babies from 2014, people have plans in place etc. I'm assuming if it came in it would include a year of entry to school, so for example 2020. That way it would only effect children currently not taking up ecce in 2016/2016. This gives a chance to clear the current batch and start afresh.

We could use the 88 weeks of free ecce but I cannot imagine mine being 5yrs 7months starting school, she'd be 19 doing leaving and what if she needed to repeat a year?

I know in a lot of schools, 4th year is being ditched. You have to apply for special permission to do it, and they only have say 30 kids out of 100 to do it. I know when I did it it was rare not to, and some schools wouldn't allow skip, but from what I can tell in the greater dublin area from cousins etc, it's now rare to do it. So your child would likely be 18 doing the leaving cert most likely.
Also it's again quite rare for kids to repeat years now. I remember it was always the very young kids who would find it more difficult. Those only 4 the summer before starting school etc.

But it's obviously all school and child dependant. I know in Germany etc, when kids don't really start school til 6 , they do much better overall. My boy is feb 14 and I'm happy for him to start at 5 and 7 months.

RentDayBlues

dori_dormer wrote: »

I know in a lot of schools, 4th year is being ditched. You have to apply for special permission to do it, and they only have say 30 kids out of 100 to do it. I know when I did it it was rare not to, and some schools wouldn't allow skip, but from what I can tell in the greater dublin area from cousins etc, it's now rare to do it. So your child would likely be 18 doing the leaving cert most likely.
Also it's again quite rare for kids to repeat years now. I remember it was always the very young kids who would find it more difficult. Those only 4 the summer before starting school etc.

But it's obviously all school and child dependant. I know in Germany etc, when kids don't really start school til 6 , they do much better overall. My boy is feb 14 and I'm happy for him to start at 5 and 7 months.

In the area we live in, 4th year is not compulsory but most students do it, I think 99% of schools in Dublin offer it.

Repeating the leaving certificate is also quite common, it's not a sign of weakness or difficulty with the student, but for a lot a determined focus to get the points they need for third level

dori_dormer

RentDayBlues wrote: »

In the area we live in, 4th year is not compulsory but most students do it, I think 99% of schools in Dublin offer it.

Repeating the leaving certificate is also quite common, it's not a sign of weakness or difficulty with the student, but for a lot a determined focus to get the points they need for third level

Yes I know they offer it but from the schools in the areas I know (obviously not all) don't offer it to everyone. So a large portion skip.
I Also went to a school like the institute and there were even some 20 yr olds repeating the leaving. I honestly don't think age is any big deal in terms of the leaving cert / starting college. The more mature you are the better you generally do first time round anyway.

Millem

There is something in the document on TY. I personally think the concept of TY is great. In our area it is compulsory, a lot of our kids may go to say France for a school term etc.

I haven't fully decided on a primary school yet for my guy. If he goes to french place he will be one of the oldest as they use calendar year to determine starting age. When I see his cousin who is 7.5 months older than him (June baby) beside him there is no comparison. She is a lot more mature. They would be in same class year if he goes at 4 and she goes at 5!
He is starting monte in sept and will be youngest in the class and he is just as able as the older ones on open day.

Jen44

my daughter was born in Feb 2014. She is starting in Montessori this sep when she will be 2 1/2. She is starting three afternoons a week for 3 hours. We have to pay for her up till April when her free ECCE year starts. The following sep she is going in for five mornings .

iguana

What usually happens when a pre-school's daily hours are 3.5 hours long while the ECCE day is 3?

Kash

iguana wrote: »

What usually happens when a pre-school's daily hours are 3.5 hours long while the ECCE day is 3?

I've been wondering this too - my 3 year old goes to creche every day from 8-5:30, but the ECCE will be 9-12 (I assume) when she starts in September. I assume I have to pay the extra portions of the day.

unklerosco

Kash wrote: »

the ECCE will be 9-12 (I assume) when she starts in September. I assume I have to pay the extra portions of the day.

That's correct. For pre-schools that run for 3.5hrs you would pay for the extra .5hr per day although this is optional. The pre-school has to give you the option of collecting your child after 3hrs or you pay the extra and collect them after 3.5hrs... Most pre-schools do it as the ECCE doesn't cover the cost of running the pre-school.

The joys of running a pre-school!

John Mason

Kash wrote: »

I've been wondering this too - my 3 year old goes to creche every day from 8-5:30, but the ECCE will be 9-12 (I assume) when she starts in September. I assume I have to pay the extra portions of the day.

You don't have to pay for the extra half hour. It is optional.

You are entitled to take your child after 3 hours

Kash

John Mason wrote: »

You don't have to pay for the extra half hour. It is optional.

You are entitled to take your child after 3 hours

I am entitled to take my child whenever I please

But I meant that if i continue to have my child in the creche from 8-5.30, i will have to pay for all the hours not subsidised by the ECCE.

John Mason

Kash wrote: »

I am entitled to take my child whenever I please

But I meant that if i continue to have my child in the creche from 8-5.30, i will have to pay for all the hours not subsidised by the ECCE.

oh right, yeah you do :pac: