Warwick student rejects consent lessons.

Annasopra

conorhal wrote: »

These loons have pretty much taken over university politics as a result of that kind of shrugging apathy, a halt needs to be called to their antics at some point, but it would of course be a braver (or more foolish) person then I to do so.
In truth the 'reaction' is just another example of the 'no-platform' shouting down of dissent that has become all to common, even here, where national issues of immigration or travellers or no doubt this nonsense will be quietly moved and closed on 'Irelands biggest forum'.

Who is shouting who down though?

Kev W

Gongoozler wrote: »

I would never in a million years have thought Ched Evans could be found guilty of rape based on the fact that the girl was too drunk to be able to knowingly consent. So, considering that's a law now and you can go to prison for it, I think it's quite important that people learn all the ways you can get to being called a rapist. The 'knock you over the head and rape you' type of rapist most likely wouldn't be influenced at all by classes such as these.

You seriously don't think sticking your dick in someone too drunk to consent should qualify as rape?

suicide_circus

Feebleminded gender studies types with a penchant for outrage and shrill hysteria becoming parodies of themselves. Gotta love it.

EazyD

Kev W wrote: »

You seriously don't think sticking your dick in someone too drunk to consent should qualify as rape?

It's not quite as cut and dry as that though in the case highlighted. And as a counterpoint the issue of false accusations should be highlighted just as much, it equally ruins lives.

Penny Tration

Gongoozler wrote: »

I would never in a million years have thought Ched Evans could be found guilty of rape based on the fact that the girl was too drunk to be able to knowingly consent. So, considering that's a law now and you can go to prison for it, I think it's quite important that people learn all the ways you can get to being called a rapist. The 'knock you over the head and rape you' type of rapist most likely wouldn't be influenced at all by classes such as these.

It's not a way to get called a rapist. It's a form of rape. It would make you BE a rapist

EazyD

Penny Tration wrote: »

It's not a way to get called a rapist. It's a form of rape. It would make you BE a rapist

Of course it falls within the same category by law but let's face it, a young lad taking advantage of a drunk girl (while obviously is really disturbing and to be condemned) is not quite on par with being dragged into a dark alley and being physically assaulted and raped at knifepoint. Yes they are both rape but one is probably more likely to be lastingly damaging to the victims than the other. That's not meant to be offensive, the same could apply for any crime.

Kev W

EazyD wrote: »

It's not quite as cut and dry as that though in the case highlighted. And as a counterpoint the issue of false accusations should be highlighted just as much, it equally ruins lives.

Equally? Are you actually serious?

Kev W

EazyD wrote: »

Of course it falls within the same category by law but let's face it, a young lad taking advantage of a drunk girl (while obviously is really disturbing and to be condemned) is not quite on par with being dragged into a dark alley and being physically assaulted and raped at knifepoint.

Well both are rape, so yes they are on par. Because it's the same crime.

EazyD

EazyD wrote: »

Of course it falls within the same category by law but let's face it, a young lad taking advantage of a drunk girl (while obviously is really disturbing and to be condemned) is not quite on par with being dragged into a dark alley and being physically assaulted and raped at knifepoint.

This demonstrates the reason why those invitations were sent.

It's not 'taking advantage'. It's rape.

EazyD

Kev W wrote: »

Equally? Are you actually serious?

I get your agenda here, I won't bite. Yes I believe the damage false accusations can have on people's lives is far more profound than is reported through mainstream media.

Penny Tration

EazyD wrote: »

Of course it falls within the same category by law but let's face it, a young lad taking advantage of a drunk girl (while obviously is really disturbing and to be condemned) is not quite on par with being dragged into a dark alley and being physically assaulted and raped at knifepoint.

Yes it is. They're both rape and both have horrific mental consequences, nevermind physical, for the victim.

EazyD

Candie wrote: »

This demonstrates the reason why those invitations were sent.

It's not 'taking advantage'. It's rape.

So your suggesting I should attend?

suicide_circus

Candie wrote: »

This demonstrates the reason why those invitations were sent

Those invitations were sent by gender studies graduates trying to justify their existence

Penny Tration

EazyD wrote: »

I get your agenda here, I won't bite. Yes I believe the damage false accusations can have on people's lives is far more profound than is reported through mainstream media.

Your post said rape of a drunk person isn't as bad as being attacked in an alley rape.

It said nothing about false accusations. So are you now saying all drunk women who happen to be raped are liars?

EazyD

Penny Tration wrote: »

Your post said rape of a drunk person isn't as bad as being attacked in an alley rape.

It said nothing about false accusations. So are you now saying all drunk women who happen to be raped are liars?

Twisting my words like a true master, no I'm not saying that whatsoever. Christ on a bike.

Penny Tration

EazyD wrote: »

Twisting my words like a true master, no I'm not saying that whatsoever. Christ on a bike.

I'm questioning it because I've got no idea why else you'd act as though your post was about false accusations, when in reality it was about which rape is worse. Not twisting, questioning. Hence the question mark.

EazyD

EazyD wrote: »

So your suggesting I should attend?

You seem to think that 'taking advantage' isn't rape.

EazyD wrote: »

Of course it falls within the same category by law but let's face it, a young lad taking advantage of a drunk girl (while obviously is really disturbing and to be condemned) is not quite on par with being dragged into a dark alley and being physically assaulted and raped at knifepoint.

Both of these situations are rape. In neither case has the girl consented.

In the first case, it's rape.
In the second case, it's rape.

In the second case, additional charges may be brought.

That doesn't make the victim in the first scenario less raped.

EazyD

Candie wrote: »

You seem to think that 'taking advantage' isn't rape.



Both of these situations are rape. In neither case has the girl consented.

In the first case, it's rape.
In the second case, it's rape.

In the second case, additional charges may be brought.

That doesn't make the victim in the first scenario less raped.

I never said taking advantage wasn't rape so please don't put words in my mouth. It's amazing how quickly people on this jump down your throat when they interpret something differently.

steddyeddy

Maybe Easyd you should clarify because both are indeed rape and both result in severe psychological and physical consequences for the victim.

EazyD

EazyD wrote: »

I never said taking advantage wasn't rape so please don't put words in my mouth. It's amazing how quickly people on this jump down your throat when they interpret something differently.

That's exactly what you're doing when you describe one as taking advantage and the other as rape. Rape is on a par with rape.

Additional threats and/or violence are further crimes.

EazyD

Penny Tration wrote: »

I'm questioning it because I've got no idea why else you'd act as though your post was about false accusations, when in reality it was about which rape is worse. Not twisting, questioning. Hence the question mark.

This thread is about a "consent" talk, which of course will involve the discussion of rape. I suggested that the prevalence of false accusations is perhaps a lot more than is reported in the media and thus could become another topic that such talks might address given the damage it can cause to people's lives.

EazyD

Candie wrote: »

That's exactly what you're doing when you describe one as taking advantage and the other as rape. Rape is on a par with rape.

Additional threats and/or violence are further crimes.

For the second time please don't put words in my mouth. You've dissected what I've said and made your own assumptions as to what I implied. Take a swing elsewhere Candie.

steddyeddy

EazyD wrote: »

This thread is about a "consent" talk, which of course will involve the discussion of rape. I suggested that the prevalence of false accusations is perhaps a lot more than is reported in the media and thus could become another topic that such talks might address given the damage it can cause to people's lives.

False accusations do go under reported. However I think it would be unfair to aim a talk about making false reports at all women as some groups do to men.

EazyD

EazyD wrote: »

For the second time please don't put words in my mouth. You've dissected what I've said and made your own assumptions as to what I implied. Take a swing elsewhere Candie.

I don't see how anyone can be putting words in your mouth when they're quoting you directly and using your own words.

You didn't imply anything by the way, you clearly phrased it that way.

zeffabelli

The definitions of rape are changing. The definitions of consent are also changing.

You have rape by force and rape by fraud now. (Lies. Telling her a false name, false profession, nationality...etc)

You also have invalid consent on top of that. (Alcohol for example in done jurisdictions invalidates consent.)

So it's not as clear cut as you might think.

EazyD

steddyeddy wrote: »

Maybe Easyd you should clarify because both are indeed rape and both result in severe psychological and physical consequences for the victim.

I'm not saying they don't. Of course they do. And in understanding the topic and the way society deals with the problem perhaps it is futile to just lump everything under one category and be done with it when we know not all rapists are the same or have the same motives themselves to carry out their crimes.

steddyeddy

Candie wrote: »

This demonstrates the reason why those invitations were sent.

It's not 'taking advantage'. It's rape.

It does anything but Candie. What proportion of people think that consent doesn't need to be given?

EazyD

Candie wrote: »

I don't see how anyone can be putting words in your mouth when they're quoting you directly and using your own words.

You didn't imply anything by the way, you clearly phrased it that way.

I said taking advantage (while it is still rape and a serious crime) is unlikely to be as lastingly damaging as more violent forms of rape in general. There will be of course exceptions to that as we are all human and different.

steddyeddy

zeffabelli wrote: »

The definitions of rape are changing. The definitions of consent are also changing.

You have rape by force and rape by fraud now. (Lies. Telling her a false name, false profession, nationality...etc)

You also have invalid consent on top of that. (Alcohol for example in done jurisdictions invalidates consent.)

So it's not as clear cut as you might think.

So when I was drunk and a sober girl had sex with me I was raped? Surely it's not any alcohol at all?

EazyD

zeffabelli wrote: »

The definitions of rape are changing. The definitions of consent are also changing.

You have rape by force and rape by fraud now. (Lies. Telling her a false name, false profession, nationality...etc)

You also have invalid consent on top of that. (Alcohol for example in done jurisdictions invalidates consent.)

So it's not as clear cut as you might think.

My point exactly. I might be initially traumatised to find out the bloke I'm sleeping with isn't called Steve but it's hardly going to be on the same level as having someone forcefully do it at knifepoint.