RTE 'revamping' the Angelus slot

RobertKK

realdanbreen wrote: »

What part of West Clare are you living in?

West Clare?

VinLieger

RobertKK wrote: »

The service they provide is central to a lot of people in this country.

Yes but not everyone and nowhere near the 84% people seem obsessed with, even if it was 99.99% it still would be wrong for that .01% to be funding the angelus with their taxes

Palmach

As an atheist I am happy to live in a christian country. The Angelus is a reflection of that fact. Christianity is the bedrock of our culture. If a short one minute clip of bells ringing annoys you, grow a thicker skin and be thankful yo don'y live in Saudi Arabia.

OldGoat

RobertKK wrote: »

It would be representative of large swathes of the country which are rural.

Large areas of land are not a reflection on the religious views of the people it contains. You can't foist your views on whatever topic simply because you have more elbow room than other crowded areas of the map.

You cited the priest (for whatever reason) as being an important member of a community. I don't disagree with you on this but your stance seems to be that there is no-one else who fills that role. Apart from performing the sacraments themselves there are numerous professionals who deal with families through the up and downs of life - in communities less rural (and by inference more populous) than yours.

VinLieger

Palmach wrote: »

As an atheist I am happy to live in a christian country. The Angelus is a reflection of that fact. Christianity is the bedrock of our culture. If a short one minute clip of bells ringing annoys you, grow a thicker skin and be thankful yo don'y live in Saudi Arabia.

I don't care if its on TV just that my taxes fund it, If the church want to run a 1 minute advert everyday during primetime they should have to pay for it

One eyed Jack

eviltwin wrote: »

Believing yourself to be something doesn't make it so. I could call myself Catholic, I am baptised. I haven't set foot in a church in 23 years though and I don't follow or believe any of their teachings so am I really entitled to see myself as Catholic? Or is ticking a box every few years the sum of it nowadays?

Ticking a box is all people were asked to do, they weren't asked about how devout or otherwise they are. That seems to suit most people, except those who don't particularly care if the evidence contradicts their beliefs.

Awkward.

VinLieger wrote: »

No im claiming the majority of people who ticked catholic would have chosen agnostic if they had ever had agnosticism explained to them and if it had been a choice. People in this country chose catholic due to ignorance, family pressure and so they hilariously so they could say they did.

84 % of this country are not practicing catholics by any definition of the meaning therefore using it as a figure to push a catholic agenda like the angelus is willfully ignorant.

You're making a hefty number of assumptions there to form a conclusion that suits your belief. Do you normally make assumptions about things in spite of evidence that says otherwise, or do you simply agree with what suits you and reject that which doesn't?

Again - awkward.

Daith

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Ticking a box is all people were asked to do, they weren't asked about how devout or otherwise they are.

Which makes it pretty meaningless to use then.

Unless ticking a box is all that is required to be Catholic?

Crooked Jack

VinLieger wrote: »

No its nothing to do with being a catholic its to do with people of religion not respecting those who disagree with them.

That lack of respect goes both ways

RobertKK

VinLieger wrote: »

Yes but not everyone and nowhere near the 84% people seem obsessed with, even if it was 99.99% it still would be wrong for that .01% to be funding the angelus with their taxes

RTE don't put on programs that everyone wants, they put on a mix of everything.

OldGoat wrote: »

Large areas of land are not a reflection on the religious views of the people it contains. You can't foist your views on whatever topic simply because you have more elbow room than other crowded areas of the map.

You cited the priest (for whatever reason) as being an important member of a community. I don't disagree with you on this but your stance seems to be that there is no-one else who fills that role. Apart from performing the sacraments themselves there are numerous professionals who deal with families through the up and downs of life - in communities less rural (and by inference more populous) than yours.

Well I rather my license money funded the Angelus over the Ray Darcy show where someone thought elbow dancing was the height of entertainment and is what people wanted to watch, and it went on far longer than one minute...
But sometimes you have to watch something that is so bad, as you watch in disbelief in how bad it is...
If something doesn't interest me I switch the channel.

RobertKK

Daith wrote: »

Which makes it pretty meaningless to use then.

Unless ticking a box is all that is required to be Catholic?

People are only asked what they identify themselves as.

VinLieger

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Ticking a box is all people were asked to do, they weren't asked about how devout or otherwise they are. That seems to suit most people, except those who don't particularly care if the evidence contradicts their beliefs.

Awkward.





You're making a hefty number of assumptions there to form a conclusion that suits your belief. Do you normally make assumptions about things in spite of evidence that says otherwise, or do you simply agree with what suits you and reject that which doesn't?

Again - awkward.

I agree with the evidence before my eyes, 62% voted for same sex marriage, by the churches own admission attendance numbers are dropping through the floor and more and more people are sending their children to educate together schools and not having to baptise their children and yet the amount of these schools is still not enough to take those who want them.

VinLieger

RobertKK wrote: »

People are only asked what they identify themselves as.

Surely they should be asked what they believe in if those pushing an agenda based on those beliefs are using their declarations to further that agenda?

OldGoat

RobertKK wrote: »

RTE don't put on programs that everyone wants, they put on a mix of everything.



Well I rather my license money funded the Angelus over the Ray Darcy show where someone thought elbow dancing was the height of entertainment and is what people wanted to watch, and it went on far longer than one minute...
But sometimes you have to watch something that is so bad, as you watch in disbelief in how bad it is...
If something doesn't interest me I switch the channel.

Much like I can switch thread away from something I don't like to something I find more palatable? Think I'll just go ahead and do that right now.

One eyed Jack

Daith wrote: »

Which makes it pretty meaningless to use then.

Unless ticking a box is all that is required to be Catholic?

It actually proves quite useful in forming public policy to know what percentage of the population identify as Roman Catholic or otherwise. All that's required to identify anyone these days is to ask that person how they identify themselves, it's not up to you, or I, or anyone else, to tell someone what they are, or are not.

VinLieger wrote: »

I agree with the evidence before my eyes, 62% voted for same sex marriage, by the churches own admission attendance numbers are dropping through the floor and more and more people are sending their children to educate together schools and not having to baptise their children and yet the amount of these schools is still not enough to take those who want them.

Ah, I see, evidence that suits you, you'll agree with it, and evidence that doesn't agree with you - discard it.

How very convenient. You're hardly in any position to complain when other people do the same thing then.

VinLieger

One eyed Jack wrote: »

It actually proves quite useful in forming public policy to know what percentage of the population identify as Roman Catholic or otherwise. All that's required to identify anyone these days is to ask that person how they identify themselves, it's not up to you, or I, or anyone else, to tell someone what they are, or are not.





Ah, I see, evidence that suits you, you'll agree with it, and evidence that doesn't agree with you - discard it.

How very convenient. You're hardly in any position to complain when other people do the same thing then.

Going by your evidence the same sex marriage referendum should have been defeated by 84% yet passed by 62% whos evidence do you think is more accurate?

RobertKK

VinLieger wrote: »

Surely they should be asked what they believe in if those pushing an agenda based on those beliefs are using their declarations to further that agenda?

I think that is what the underlying belief is. It is not a census on how devout you are, but is simply a poll to formulate stats.

It is not the fault of Catholics if 84% chose to identify as Catholic. No agenda was being pushed.

One eyed Jack

VinLieger wrote: »

Going by your evidence the same sex marriage referendum should have been defeated by 84% yet passed by 62% whos evidence do you think is more accurate?

Why do you say that? The same sex marriage referendum was a civil matter, and had nothing to do with religion. 62% of 84% understood that much, so both figures are as accurate as each other.

realdanbreen

RobertKK wrote: »

West Clare?

Well you live in an area that does'nt have a doctor priest or lawyer? It's got to be either west clare or somewhere on the Kilkenny/ Waterford border.

The Randy Riverbeast

One eyed Jack wrote: »

It actually proves quite useful in forming public policy to know what percentage of the population identify as Roman Catholic or otherwise. All that's required to identify anyone these days is to ask that person how they identify themselves, it's not up to you, or I, or anyone else, to tell someone what they are, or are not.

What kind of policies? If all being a catholic is is claiming you are one then we can't really make policies based on that.

It becomes a problem when people start using the "we are a majority" to decide things for everyone else. A majority of people ticking the same box as you doesnt mean they agree with you on anything else.

RobertKK

realdanbreen wrote: »

Well you live in an area that does'nt have a doctor priest or lawyer? It's got to be either west clare or somewhere on the Kilkenny/ Waterford border.

15 minute drive north of Kilkenny city and all we have is a priest of those trio named.

Cienciano

Personally I don't like it. Not because it's religious. For instance, I think the state showing mass on a sunday morning is good. I'm guessing it serves a purpose for plenty of people that can't get out of the house. Good for them, good service by rte.

But I can't really see what purpose the angelus serves. RTE are trying to make it less religious. I think if people actually said the anglus, then great, keep it. But no one does. It's turned into a minute of telly that's completely pointless and RTE are only keeping cos people who never actually say the angelus will moan about it going.
It seems athiests want it gone cos it's religious, and the only reason people want it is because "fúck the athiests".
I don't agree that "tradition" or "moment of reflection" are valid reasons to keep it, that's RTE afraid to make a decision on it.

VinLieger

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Why do you say that? The same sex marriage referendum was a civil matter, and had nothing to do with religion. 62% of 84% understood that much, so both figures are as accurate as each other.

If it had nothing to do with religion why did the church and catholic lobby groups urge a no vote on religious grounds?

Paramite Pie

RobertKK wrote: »

84% of people said they were Catholic in the last census.

A similar figure support abortion (as a choice) in many opinion polls. Not to mention a certain referendum that the Church were in opposition too.

There should be a Practicing or Non-Practicing Catholic box in the census.

CruelCoin

Isn't it astonishing that we have 15 pages of crap over a 1 minute bell ringing enthusiast program. Fook me.

One eyed Jack

VinLieger wrote: »

If it had nothing to do with religion why did the church and catholic lobby groups urge a no vote on religious grounds?

Have to be seen to be doing something to justify their existence I suppose... :pac:

AudreyHepburn

CruelCoin wrote: »

Isn't it astonishing that we have 15 pages of crap over a 1 minute bell ringing enthusiast program. Fook me.

People really do have little to complain about don't they!

My name is URL

CruelCoin wrote: »

Isn't it astonishing that we have 15 pages of crap over a 1 minute bell ringing enthusiast program. Fook me.

It's funnier considering most of those opposed to the angelus have, and will again vote for a political party which defines itself as 'Christian Democratic'

How many of those opposed to it have baptised their children I wonder. Ah shur that's different I suppose, what choice do people have? Gotta get the kids into school like. But hey, we'll vote for them Christian Democrats again anyway, who have no intention of changing anything!

The cognitive dissonance and mental gymnastics is strong in this thread.

Cienciano

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

People really do have little to complain about don't they!

Because this is a thread on after hours, doesn't mean people have nothing else to complain about.
A quick check on your past threads "sitting on santas knee" and "ettiquette on public transport" and a bird was killed in a different country.
I assume they aren't your only problems in life.

One eyed Jack

The Randy Riverbeast wrote: »

What kind of policies? If all being a catholic is is claiming you are one then we can't really make policies based on that.

Education policies for one thing, infrastructure in communities, predicting population growth trends and the necessity for amenities and utilities in those areas...

A whole multitude really.

It becomes a problem when people start using the "we are a majority" to decide things for everyone else. A majority of people ticking the same box as you doesnt mean they agree with you on anything else.

That's why the census form asks a bucket load of other questions and offers many more tricky boxes to tick. It's the easiest and most efficient way to process data, analyse it, and produce results from which they can form conclusions based on actual data as opposed to going with a gut feeling that says "I don't believe it!"...

RobertKK

Paramite Pie wrote: »

A similar figure support abortion (as a choice) in many opinion polls. Not to mention a certain referendum that the Church were in opposition too.

There should be a Practicing or Non-Practicing Catholic box in the census.

Opinion polls don't matter, it is not a census or referendum.

Should there be carefree atheists, militant atheists, peace loving muslims, want to join ISIS muslims and so on....?

Datallus

As long as this new "re-vamped" version helps people to ruminate on their sinfulness, I'm all for it!

NachoBusiness

seamus wrote: »

They should rotate it. On Fridays you broadcast something Jewish to mark the start of the Sabbath. On Saturdays you broadcast the Muslim call to prayer to mark the start of the Muslim workweek. On Sundays you broadcast the Angelus. The other four days are dedicated to showcasing similar rituals in other religions. That's diversity.

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I think that's actually a very good idea tbh.

Yeah, I agree, fantastic idea.

And I think also we should put up a statue of the Prophet Muhammad in the city centre and would it really do any harm if we turned St Stephen's Green into a synagogue? Also, I think there should be at least a hundred Irish people bent over in Arrivals in Dublin Airport everyday, just in case anyone coming in wants to fcuk someone up the arse. It's nice to be nice.

recylingbin

I don't understand how anyone could be angry about the Angelus. Who gives a sh1t?
How empty is your life that you need to take a minute out of someone else's life?

AudreyHepburn

Cienciano wrote: »

Because this is a thread on after hours, doesn't mean people have nothing else to complain about.
A quick check on your past threads "sitting on santas knee" and "ettiquette on public transport" and a bird was killed in a different country.
I assume they aren't your only problems in life.

I started those threads because the topics interested me and I thought they'd be good subjects for discussions.

There's a difference between and that getting offended for the sake of it at 60 seconds of bells and reflection.

DeadHand

I'm a horrible pagan myself, but I don't mind the angelus for the reasons that I don't mind most children in this country having a baptism, communion and confirmation while the adults go through with their marriages and funerals. The traditional/cultural significances have outstripped the religious ones for most people.

Like it or not, all these rituals are part of being Irish and growing up in Ireland for most. The fact they aren't for some doesn't make them any less Irish but for most of us they are there.

A minute of innocuous bellringing will not convert or impose anything on anyone. It does not genuinely upset anyone.

Most opposition toward the angelus comes from the same, boring quarter (well represented on AH) who still think it edgy and cool to kick Catholicism while it's down. Herd thinkers who maintained/would have maintained a bovine silence when the Church was at the height of its corrupted pomp.

Any foreigners who feel unbearably offended by the angelus (I doubt this group even exists) would be advised to leave and live in a culture more sensitive to their beliefs rather than demand this one change to accommodate theirs.

Keep the angelus in its old form; theses changes are a limpwristed nonsense.

realdanbreen

Datallus wrote: »

As long as this new "re-vamped" version helps people to ruminate on their sinfulness, I'm all for it!

What 'sinfulness' do you have? Personally I don't believe I have any, but if you have then fair enough.

VinLieger

recylingbin wrote: »

I don't understand how anyone could be angry about the Angelus. Who gives a sh1t?
How empty is your life that you need to take a minute out of someone else's life?

Cus i believe in the complete separation of religion and government which includes any funding by government of religious institutions of which the angelus is

Kev W

NachoBusiness wrote: »

Yeah, I agree, fantastic idea.

And I think also we should put up a statue of the Prophet Muhammad in the city centre and would it really do any harm if we turned St Stephen's Green into a synagogue? Also, I think there should be at least a hundred Irish people bent over in Arrivals in Dublin Airport everyday, just in case anyone coming in wants to fcuk someone up the arse. It's nice to be nice.

You're right, best to scrap the Angelus altogether.

One eyed Jack

NachoBusiness wrote: »

Yeah, I agree, fantastic idea.

And I think also we should put up a statue of the Prophet Muhammad in the city centre and would it really do any harm if we turned St Stephen's Green into a synagogue? Also, I think there should be at least a hundred Irish people bent over in Arrivals in Dublin Airport everyday, just in case anyone coming in wants to fcuk someone up the arse. It's nice to be nice.

I hope they do a good deal on lube in the Duty Free! :pac:

My name is URL

VinLieger wrote: »

Cus i believe in the complete separation of religion and government

Maybe a better place to start such a crusade would be here

http://www.oireachtas.ie/viewdoc.asp?fn=/documents/a-misc/prayer.htm

Demand that a stop be put to that. See how many elected representatives row in behind you in support

Will you be favoring the Christian Democratics (FG) btw? Seems a bit counterproductive to your cause in this particular matter if so

Datallus

V. The Angel of the Lord declared unto Mary.
R. And she conceived of the Holy Spirit.
Hail Mary, full of grace,
The Lord is with Thee;
Blessed art thou among women,
And blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus.
Holy Mary, Mother of God,
Pray for us sinners,
Now and at the hour of our death. Amen
V. Behold the handmaid of the Lord.
R. Be it done unto me according to thy word.
Hail Mary, etc.
V. And the Word was made Flesh.
R. And dwelt among us.
Hail Mary, etc.
V. Pray for us, O holy Mother of God.
R. That we may be made worthy of the promises of Christ.
LET US PRAY
Pour forth, we beseech Thee, O Lord, Thy grace into our hearts, that we to whom the Incarnation of Christ Thy Son was made known by the message of an angel, may by His Passion and Cross be brought to the glory of His Resurrection. Through the same Christ Our Lord. Amen.

They should have the text on the screen, with some nice choral work in he background.

The Randy Riverbeast

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Education policies for one thing, infrastructure in communities, predicting population growth trends and the necessity for amenities and utilities in those areas...

A whole multitude really.





That's why the census form asks a bucket load of other questions and offers many more tricky boxes to tick. It's the easiest and most efficient way to process data, analyse it, and produce results from which they can form conclusions based on actual data as opposed to going with a gut feeling that says "I don't believe it!"...

So to be a catholic you have to want a certain type of education or infrastructure.


It's coming across as 84% of people agree with me when I want them to except for those times it can be shown as false. Every other time we can assume it though, they consider themselves catholic so they must want catholic things, even if they don't want those other catholic things.

Badly Drunk Boy

LordSutch wrote: »

The Angelus is the TV equivalent of the human apendix (a useless relic from our evolutionary Catholic past).

Is there any way for the Angelus to rupture and kill you? Even metaphorically?

VinLieger wrote: »

And if those religious tax payers are happy to have it then they can privately fund it however if their taxes are going towards it then so are mine.

VinLieger wrote: »

I don't care if its on TV just that my taxes fund it, If the church want to run a 1 minute advert everyday during primetime they should have to pay for it

So you're okay with privately funded 'brainwashing' on telly? A lot of the people here giving out about the Angelus are probably the same ones who proudly claim that they don't buy a television licence (not saying that you are one of them).

One thing that I don't understand every time this Angelus thing appears here is that the complainers rarely mention the Sunday services shown every week on RTÉ1. Why is this? Is it because they are not exclusively Catholic services? It takes up more air-time each week than The Angelus...

Kev W

Badly Drunk Boy wrote: »

A lot of the people here giving out about the Angelus are probably the same ones who proudly claim that they don't buy a television licence (not saying that you are one of them).

That seems like a bizarre leap in logic, can you explain how you came to that conclusion?

JaCrispy

Angelus is a load of ****e. Catholicism is a load of ****e. Islam is a load of ****e. All religion is a load of ****e.

What really gets my goat though are the lefties that think it's really hip to bash Catholicism and a couple of threads later say they think having a secular state is a great thing, ignoring the problems associated with Islam (for example).

Galwayguy35

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Well he's hardly going to have any third world problems to moan about living in Ireland...

Well if that's his biggest moan then his worries are light.

Kev W

JaCrispy wrote: »

Angelus is a load of ****e. Catholicism is a load of ****e. Islam is a load of ****e. All religion is a load of ****e.

What really gets my goat though are the lefties that think it's really hip to bash Catholicism and a couple of threads later say they think having a secular state is a great thing, ignoring the problems associated with Islam (for example).

How does a belief that a secular state is a good thing have anything to do with ignoring the problems with Islam (for example)?

Datallus

I'd equate people who want to stop RTE broadcasting the Angelus with those people who want to stop schools teaching Shakespeare. Pagans!

Kev W

Datallus wrote: »

I'd equate people who want to stop RTE broadcasting the Angelus with those people who want to stop schools teaching Shakespeare. Pagans!

You have every right to do that, bizarre and meaningless as it is.

Paramite Pie

RobertKK wrote: »

Opinion polls don't matter, it is not a census or referendum.

Should there be carefree atheists, militant atheists, peace loving muslims, want to join ISIS muslims and so on....?

You just used the census result as an opinion poll to claim support for the Angelus. Hypocrisy at it's finest.:rolleyes: