RTE 'revamping' the Angelus slot

kylith

conorhal wrote: »

Because there's a slippery slope to the whiny letter writers determining what can and can't be shown on TV based on their ideological bias. If there's an audience for something I've no problem with it.

But RTE are in breach of their own charter to not benefit one particular church over another. If The RCC paid for this advertising there'd be no problem. If RTE broadcast all religions' calls to prayer there'd be no problem. If RTE played some generic music and it was legitimately a secular moment of reflection there'd be no problem. They could do any of those those things at 12 and 6 and there'd be no problem, and most people wouldn't even notice. It's the unconstitutional promotion of a particular religion that's the problem.

smash

kylith wrote: »

If RTE broadcast all religions' calls to prayer there'd be no problem.

I beg to differ

Dyr

Craig doyle vill be eliminated

Bing...bong

LorMal

smash wrote: »

Are you really comparing the needs of deaf people to the wants of devote Catholics who believe in a sky fairy?

That's just intolerant and disrespectful and certainly detracts from whatever point you were trying to make.

I have little concern about this issue either way. Its not very important really. I think it's a bit of an anachronism but is hardly offensive and is quaint.

Much like I enjoy hearing the call to prayer when I am in the Middle East - it's very evocative and part of the old culture.

VinLieger

LorMal wrote: »

That's just intolerant and disrespectful and certainly detracts from whatever point you were trying to make.

I have little concern about this issue either way. Its not very important really. I think it's a bit of an anachronism but is hardly offensive and is quaint.

Much like I enjoy hearing the call to prayer when I am in the Middle East - it's very evocative and part of the old culture.

Its just as intolerant and disrespectful of Catholics to expect mine and others tax money who do not believe in religion to go towards any religious programming no matter how short it is

smash

LorMal wrote: »

That's just intolerant and disrespectful and certainly detracts from whatever point you were trying to make.

I don't have to be tolerant towards religion, I think it's non sense. And I certainly don't believe the state broadcaster should be forking out free air time to religious organisations.

NyOmnishambles

murpho999 wrote: »

That's a cop out.

This "you don't have to watch" malarkey annoys me.
If that's they case why don't they have nudity during the day or broadcast porn then?

Those who are offended just don't have to watch.

Its RTE, they have broadcast nudity several times during the day because they don't really pay attention to the content of movies they are broadcasting

And I would prefer it that way than the bastardised versions of movies you get on ITV where swearing is replaced by random utterances

LorMal

VinLieger wrote: »

Its just as intolerant and disrespectful of Catholics to expect mine and others tax money who do not believe in religion to go towards any religious programming no matter how short it is

Yeah, it costs a fortune. Get real. Have a look at the money RTE actually wastes

kylith

LorMal wrote: »

That's just intolerant and disrespectful and certainly detracts from whatever point you were trying to make.

I have little concern about this issue either way. Its not very important really. I think it's a bit of an anachronism but is hardly offensive and is quaint.

Much like I enjoy hearing the call to prayer when I am in the Middle East - it's very evocative and part of the old culture.

No-one's trying to stop them ringing their own church bells, just to stop the tax-funded state broadcaster broadcasting it.

LorMal

smash wrote: »

I don't have to be tolerant towards religion, I think it's non sense. And I certainly don't believe the state broadcaster should be forking out free air time to religious organisations.

The 'State Broadcaster' broadcasts a myriad of programmes on a huge range of topics.
Getting highly offended about the Angelus is an over reaction.
Personally, I hate the way they normalise gambling by showing horse racing but I don't expect the world to revolve around my foibles.

LorMal

kylith wrote: »

No-one's trying to stop them ringing their own church bells, just to stop the tax-funded state broadcaster broadcasting it.

Is the money really your issue here?

VinLieger

LorMal wrote: »

Yeah, it costs a fortune. Get real. Have a look at the money RTE actually wastes

How many times does it take to get this through peoples heads? Its not about the cost, its the principle of any tax money going towards religious programming that is the problem.

One eyed Jack

Kev W wrote: »

And if the church paid to broadcast the Angelus very few people would have a problem with it.

Very few people actually do have a problem with the Angelus as it is though, and while there are a minority calling for it's removal, they are outnumbered by the minority who have the power and influence to, and the want to, keep it where it is, as it is.

The majority of people in Ireland don't seem to have expressed any opinion either way. I'm not bothered either way, I simply choose not to watch what doesn't interest me, and if more people were to vote with their remote, their lives too would be that little bit more bearable.

One eyed Jack

VinLieger wrote: »

How many times does it take to get this through peoples heads? Its not about the cost, its the principle of any tax money going towards religious programming that is the problem.

Shouldn't that read "my license fee money", rather than any tax money? RTE is funded by the licence fee and advertising.

smash

LorMal wrote: »

The 'State Broadcaster' broadcasts a myriad of programmes on a huge range of topics.
Getting highly offended about the Angelus is an over reaction.
Personally, I hate the way they normalise gambling by showing horse racing but I don't expect the world to revolve around my foibles.

If they were giving tips and odds they'd be normalising gambling, but showing a horse race doesn't. In the same way that showing a soccer or GAA match doesn't.

Osgoodisgood

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Shouldn't that read "my license fee money", rather than any tax money? RTE is funded by the licence fee and advertising.

Oh please. You'll be telling me that Intelligent Design and Goddidit are two different things next

VinLieger

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Shouldn't that read "my license fee money", rather than any tax money? RTE is funded by the licence fee and advertising.

The license fee is a tax, it is mandated by law to be paid by anyone who owns a tv except for specific special exemptions and is collected by an post a government owned company and if you do not pay it you get fined by the courts.

Be pedantic about it all you want but its a tax in everything but name.

One eyed Jack

Osgoodisgood wrote: »

Oh please. You'll be telling me that Intelligent Design and Goddidit are two different things next

No, no I won't, but if you claim that the license fee is a tax, I'll be telling you that you're wrong.

smash

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Very few people actually do have a problem with the Angelus as it is though, and while there are a minority calling for it's removal, they are outnumbered by the minority who have the power and influence to, and the want to, keep it where it is, as it is.

The majority of people in Ireland don't seem to have expressed any opinion either way. I'm not bothered either way, I simply choose not to watch what doesn't interest me, and if more people were to vote with their remote, their lives too would be that little bit more bearable.

The biggest issue with Ireland in one single post right here. People just don't care because "It doesn't affect them". When the reality is that it does. It still shows the churches influence over our society. Someone in government needs to grow some balls and make them pay up if they want a slot on prime time TV that promotes their agenda.

One eyed Jack

smash wrote: »

The biggest issue with Ireland in one single post right here. People just don't care because "It doesn't affect them". When the reality is that it does. It still shows the churches influence over our society. Someone in government needs to grow some balls and make them pay up if they want a slot on prime time TV that promotes their agenda.

Because politicians are elected to represent the interests of the people at national level, the fact is that the removal of the angelus, or indeed challenging the Churches influence on our society, just isn't that high on people's agenda. People have far more important things influencing their lives that they're going to prioritise over what is regarded by other people as having a damaging or negative influence on their lives.

I'm sure there's plenty that doesn't affect you that you're not all that concerned about, and of course, there really are plenty of social issues that don't affect me, that affect other people, that I'm not at all concerned about.

It's simply a matter of priorities, everyone has their own hierarchy of priorities, and the removal of the angelus just isn't that high on most people's lists of priorities right now.

smash

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Because politicians are elected to represent the interests of the people at national level, the fact is that the removal of the angelus, or indeed challenging the Churches influence on our society, just isn't that high on people's agenda. People have far more important things influencing their lives that they're going to prioritise over what is regarded by other people as having a damaging or negative influence on their lives.

I'm sure there's plenty that doesn't affect you that you're not all that concerned about, and of course, there really are plenty of social issues that don't affect me, that affect other people, that I'm not at all concerned about.

It's simply a matter of priorities, everyone has their own hierarchy of priorities, and the removal of the angelus just isn't that high on most people's lists of priorities right now.

You're right. Lets ignore it. We should in fact embrace it and give different religions a slot every day. On Wednesdays we should have someone shout 'allahu akbar' for a full minute, but on Thursdays we can tone it down a bit with some Buddhist chanting. I mean, it's not like it affects anyone...

VinLieger

smash wrote: »

You're right. Lets ignore it. We should in fact embrace it and give different religions a slot every day. On Wednesdays we should have someone shout 'allahu akbar' for a full minute, but on Thursdays we can tone it down a bit with some Buddhist chanting. I mean, it's not like it affects anyone...

No we cant have that sure muslims and buddhists are only a minority and we only cater for the majority religions and belief systems here........

shane7218

Its quite simple really. Ireland is a secular country whether some Catholics like it or not and therefore we should not have the Angelus on state funded TV.

frostyjacks

Do the secularists looking to ban the Angelus realise there are several thousand Muslim immigrants heading our way in the years to come? Try telling those guys where and when they can practice their religion and see what happens to you.

LorMal

smash wrote: »

If they were giving tips and odds they'd be normalising gambling, but showing a horse race doesn't. In the same way that showing a soccer or GAA match doesn't.

Ever hear the results of a horse race being read out without them listing the odds?

Anyhow, my point is that RTE has to cater for a wide range of people - atheists, agnostics, religious etc. Not everybody can agree with everything shown.
Given that we have a huge proportion of Catholics in this country, it is not unreasonable to allocate one minute per day to prayer.
It's hardly an outrage

VinLieger

frostyjacks wrote: »

Do the secularists looking to ban the Angelus realise there are several thousand Muslim immigrants heading our way in the years to come? Try telling those guys where and when they can practice their religion and see what happens to you.

Think youve got that one backwards mate, also pretty racist but whatever

Cienciano

frostyjacks wrote: »

Do the secularists looking to ban the Angelus realise there are several thousand Muslim immigrants heading our way in the years to come? Try telling those guys where and when they can practice their religion and see what happens to you.

If they asked for a one minute call to prayer before the 6:00 news, would you mind?

VinLieger

LorMal wrote: »

Ever hear the results of a horse race being read out without them listing the odds?

Anyhow, my point is that RTE has to cater for a wide range of people - atheists, agnostics, religious etc. Not everybody can agree with everything shown.
Given that we have a huge proportion of Catholics in this country, it is not unreasonable to allocate one minute per day to prayer.
It's hardly an outrage

It is entirely unreasonable to offer preferred treatment to one religion over all other forms of beliefs especially when it is being funded by the people who have those other beliefs, the argument that the catholic religion is the majority is the most ridiculous thing i have ever heard of, we are a secular country no matter how much catholics want to deny it

frostyjacks

VinLieger wrote: »

Think youve got that one backwards mate, also pretty racist but whatever

Report it then.

Steve F

AnonoBoy wrote: »

So are people moaning about the existence of the Angelus or the fact that they're changing it or what or just the fact that they've been reminded that it's even a thing because let's face it most of us don't see it very often because we're stuck on public transport getting home from our jobs now that we had to take that other job across town because it pays a bit better and even though that means you have to spend two to three hours a day on a bus listening to whingey moanbags talking down the phone to their whingey moanbag wifes/husbands about their whingey moanbag kids and their whingey moanbag problems it works out ok in the end because there's an extra few bob coming in and don't we need it now because of all the stealth taxes and the water charges and I hear they're going to be taxing sugary mineral drinks next - madness wha? And sure if we're ever going to be able to afford a deposit on a house we need the cash because herself isn't going to stick around for too long if we stay in that god awful damp-ridden flat in the suburbs now is she? God, it was easier when it was four lads in a terraced house in town, Xbox and cans every night - out to the pub at the drop of a hat - tax bands, USC and pension levies were things that other people worried about. The odd ride here and there - some of them were crackers so they were - and there was nothing a shot, a pint and a pat on the back couldn't fix. I can't remember the last time I had a lie-in, there's always something isn't there? Something to fix, or buy or post or collect or someone to congratulate because they got engaged to some fool you never met or liked and that'll be another few hundred quid on that wedding - abroad is it? Who the f*ck do they think they are? Jaysus - the tiger never stopped roaring in that house hah?

So anyways - what are we giving out about lads? Foreigners is it? Grand....

This lads,,,THIS! ^^^^^:D

frostyjacks

Cienciano wrote: »

If they asked for a one minute call to prayer before the 6:00 news, would you mind?

If it was produced in a similar way to the existing programme, I'd have no issues. I respect all people of faith.

One eyed Jack

smash wrote: »

You're right. Lets ignore it. We should in fact embrace it and give different religions a slot every day. On Wednesdays we should have someone shout 'allahu akbar' for a full minute, but on Thursdays we can tone it down a bit with some Buddhist chanting. I mean, it's not like it affects anyone...

I never said we ignore it at all, I'm saying that other people have bigger priorities in their lives than whatever RTE are showing (I've already said in the thread I wouldn't mind RTE broadcasting the Muslim call to prayer five times a day if they want, wouldn't bother me either way), and it wouldn't affect me either way. I'd much rather they cut down on the amount of advertising and like the BBC, didn't show any advertising at all, but that too doesn't bother me enough to actually actively do something about it as I have other priorities to concern myself with.

It really does appear like it's not likely affecting anyone when there isn't a national outcry about the unfairness of it all. Hell, even the water protests got more attention and I don't care all that much about them either. When people actually feel like something does significantly affect them, then they may be more likely to act.

smash

Why don't the RTE just have the news at 6.00 and have an Angelus piece on their app that people can call up whenever they want it?

LorMal

VinLieger wrote: »

It is entirely unreasonable to offer preferred treatment to one religion over all other forms of beliefs especially when it is being funded by the people who have those other beliefs, the argument that the catholic religion is the majority is the most ridiculous thing i have ever heard of, we are a secular country no matter how much catholics want to deny it

Nobody is denying anything.
Your ire is targeted at one segment of society for some reason.
The Angelus costs hardly anything, is innocuous and causes no offence to those who don't want to be offended.
There are lots of Catholics (and others) in ireland who like the Angelus. Try getting angry about something that matters.

smash

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I never said we ignore it at all, I'm saying that other people have bigger priorities in their lives than whatever RTE are showing (I've already said in the thread I wouldn't mind RTE broadcasting the Muslim call to prayer five times a day if they want, wouldn't bother me either way), and it wouldn't affect me either way.

You're funding it, it does affect you!

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I'd much rather they cut down on the amount of advertising and like the BBC, didn't show any advertising at all, but that too doesn't bother me enough to actually actively do something about it as I have other priorities to concern myself with.

BBC can afford it. Their population is a lot larger than ours.

DEFTLEFTHAND

VinLieger wrote: »

It is entirely unreasonable to offer preferred treatment to one religion over all other forms of beliefs especially when it is being funded by the people who have those other beliefs, the argument that the catholic religion is the majority is the most ridiculous thing i have ever heard of, we are a secular country no matter how much catholics want to deny it

But the vast majority of people who practice a religion in this country are Catholics, what's ridiculous about it?

For the record I do think Ireland should be a secular country and would support the removal of all references to God in Bunreacht na hEireainn.

One eyed Jack

smash wrote: »

You're funding it, it does affect you!

In an incredibly minor way then that is so insignificant I'm not bothered about what RTE shows. I pay the TV license because I own a television, I'd have to pay that either way, angelus, no angelus, or much of the other crap that RTE shows that I have no interest in. If my licence contributes to keeping Lyric FM on the air, I'm happy enough with that. Other people are happy that their tv licence contributes towards keeping the angelus on the air.

BBC can afford it. Their population is a lot larger than ours.

Let's be honest, RTE aren't fit to lick BBC's boots in terms of what licence fee payers get for their money. I can understand of course that some people aren't happy that their license fee is contributing to programming they find objectionable, but the support just isn't there to warrant it's removal, and that support has to come from ordinary people, not politicians, because it's people who put pressure on politicians to represent their interests. If people don't particularly care for what they don't see as an issue that affects them enough to want to call for change, then that change is unlikely to happen.

digger58

I'm sure this could be sorted very easily, Get RTE to ask the licence fee payers what they want! after all they have our name and address, No licence no vote! after all we are the ones paying for this blatant support of one particular belief. What do you think? We are meant to live in a democracy so let see it work. I'm still waiting for somebody to explain how the stations get their viewer numbers, certainly, as a licence fee payer, I have never been asked about what I watch or not.

One eyed Jack

digger58 wrote: »

I'm sure this could be sorted very easily, Get RTE to ask the licence fee payers what they want! after all they have our name and address, No licence no vote! after all we are the ones paying for this blatant support of one particular belief. What do you think? We are meant to live in a democracy so let see it work.

There's nobody stopping you from making your voice heard in a democratic society. I'm not sure RTE is mandated to entertain complaints though. You might get a better hearing from the BAI. It certainly seems to work well for some individuals.

I'm still waiting for somebody to explain how the stations get their viewer numbers, certainly, as a licence fee payer, I have never been asked about what I watch or not.

They don't have to ask you, they know what you're watching already -

http://www.tamireland.ie/

digger58

"The Angelus costs hardly anything, is innocuous and causes no offence to those who don't want to be offended" Really, People who don't get cancer don't die from it! same argument. It has nothing to do with being offended, the angelus doesn't offend me per se, What I and a lot of others, judging by the comments here, find difficult to swallow is the way RTE is showing preference to the RC religion over other religions and none. Since it is the ONLY state broadcaster it has a duty to make sure their programming is totally secular and without prejudice. By taking on the duty of calling the faithful Roman Catholics to prayer it is showing bias.

OldGoat

conorhal wrote: »

Because there's a slippery slope to the whiny letter writers determining what can and can't be shown on TV based on their ideological bias. If there's an audience for something I've no problem with it.

The problem here is that the bias being shown is by RTE rather than the bias of those complaining.

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I never said we ignore it at all, I'm saying that other people have bigger priorities in their lives than whatever RTE are showing (I've already said in the thread I wouldn't mind RTE broadcasting the Muslim call to prayer five times a day if they want, wouldn't bother me either way), and it wouldn't affect me either way. I'd much rather they cut down on the amount of advertising and like the BBC, didn't show any advertising at all, but that too doesn't bother me enough to actually actively do something about it as I have other priorities to concern myself with.

It really does appear like it's not likely affecting anyone when there isn't a national outcry about the unfairness of it all. Hell, even the water protests got more attention and I don't care all that much about them either. When people actually feel like something does significantly affect them, then they may be more likely to act.

There ARE more important things going on that do deserve our attention but this thread is not about them. It is about the Angelus. That's the point of discussions, we are not limited to a list of the top 10 most important things ever.

LorMal wrote: »

Nobody is denying anything.
Your ire is targeted at one segment of society for some reason.
The Angelus costs hardly anything, is innocuous and causes no offence to those who don't want to be offended.
There are lots of Catholics (and others) in ireland who like the Angelus. Try getting angry about something that matters.

So anything that I find innocuous and causes no offence to those who don't want to be offended is OK? Really?? I have some way out there bizarre tastes but sure who cares, only those that WANT to be offended and that doesn't matter according to your logic.
As for this being something that matters, meh, it's just the Angelus. Lets just move it to 3:30 in the afternoon so I don't have to deal with it. Would that be OK? After all, it's not important.

digger58

"They don't have to ask you, they know what you're watching already"
Well obviously they DO have to ask you, they probably need to put a device on each TV in the house!

How do they measure TV audiences?

Nielsen TAM gather information about Irish television viewing from a nationally representative panel of 1,050 homes. This equates to approximately 2,500 panel members every day. They measure viewing on every set within each panel home. Since September 2010, Nielsen TAM have also been measuring time-shifted viewing (TSV). Time-shifted viewing that takes place within 7 days of the original broadcast is included in audience ratings.

Anybody on here ever been part of a TAM survey?

One eyed Jack

digger58 wrote: »

"The Angelus costs hardly anything, is innocuous and causes no offence to those who don't want to be offended" Really, People who don't get cancer don't die from it! same argument. It has nothing to do with being offended, the angelus doesn't offend me per se, What I and a lot of others, judging by the comments here, find difficult to swallow is the way RTE is showing preference to the RC religion over other religions and none. Since it is the ONLY state broadcaster it has a duty to make sure their programming is totally secular and without prejudice.

If this were actually true, RTE would have faced a legal challenge to their broadcasting standards long before now. If you actually have a source that suggests that RTE are in breach of their mandate, I'd appreciate seeing it. I'm not suggesting you're mistaken, I'm just very skeptical of such a claim.

By taking on the duty of calling the faithful Roman Catholics to prayer it is showing bias.

Hence the reasoning that they appear to have revamped the angelus, no? They show plenty of religious programming that doesn't favour any religion and even includes programming that interviews people who identify as atheist, Stephen Fry's interview with Gay Byrne for example. The name of the programme escapes me, but how would you suggest they balance the absence of belief with all the other religions?

Theism would STILL receive far more proportionate representative air time than atheism.

FutureGuy

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Things haven't been the same since A prayer at bedtime was taken off the air

One second. Is "A scare at bedtime" a play on this?

Holy fcuk balls.

OldGoat

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Hence the reasoning that they appear to have revamped the angelus, no?

This is back to the start of the discussion.
If this IS the Angelus than it's bias in favour of the RC.
If this is NOT the Angelus than why is it only shown at 6 o'clock to the sound of the bell of the Pro Cathedral?

Is there a bias being shown here and if so is it right for RTE to do so in light of our secular state?

One eyed Jack

OldGoat wrote: »

There ARE more important things going on that do deserve our attention but this thread is not about them. It is about the Angelus. That's the point of discussions, we are not limited to a list of the top 10 most important things ever.

Yes, but I was only making the point that in terms of most people's priorities, the removal of the angelus doesn't appear to rate all that highly as something that troubles them enough to actively campaign for it's removal.

As for this being something that matters, meh, it's just the Angelus. Lets just move it to 3:30 in the afternoon so I don't have to deal with it. Would that be OK? After all, it's not important.

Of course that would be ok to me personally, by all means. You might get further though if you actually asked the people that have the power to make these decisions, and you might get further again if you can make a compelling enough case to make people care enough to want to support you in addressing the people with the power to make these decisions.

RTE seems to be going with the idea of "The People's Angelus", and showcasing people who are also exempt from paying tax in this country - artists.

How wonderfully ironic for those complaining about where their tax contributions are being spent. I have no interest in my tax contributions supporting other people's lifestyle choices either, but hey ho, that's the disadvantages of living in what I would consider is a socialist democracy.

Cienciano

frostyjacks wrote: »

If it was produced in a similar way to the existing programme, I'd have no issues. I respect all people of faith.

Sure you do.

frostyjacks wrote: »

Do the secularists looking to ban the Angelus realise there are several thousand Muslim immigrants heading our way in the years to come? Try telling those guys where and when they can practice their religion and see what happens to you.

But they're dangerous bastards?

digger58

Originally Posted by frostyjacks Do the secularists looking to ban the Angelus .......
Who said anybody wants to BAN the angelus, no question of looking for it to be banned, there's a time and a place for it, just not on national media that is paid for by everyone! Surely prayer is a private and personal thing?

smash

David Quinn just stated on the radio that 2 thirds of RTE viewers want to keep the Angelus.

Here David... I don't ever remember seeing that poll or being asked to take part in it!

The Randy Riverbeast

smash wrote: »

David Quinn just stated on the radio that 2 thirds of RTE viewers want to keep the Angelus.

Here David... I don't ever remember seeing that poll or being asked to take part in it!

But remember all those other times he was right about something? Like the umm, thing where he said something.