35% Body Fat

Ezra Wibberley

So I've had an assessment done on my body fat (using calipers and being pinched and squeezed!), and have started a workout program.

- 31 years old
- male
- 177cm
- 106kg
- 35% body fat

37kg of my body is fat.

My trainer has told me that following his program (2 days weights a week, 1 day intervals) and by steadily introducing the dietary changes he's prescribing (he knows as well as I do that if he does a 100% overhaul overnight the chances of me sticking rigidly to it are low!) it will take 10-12 months to get me to 15% body fat.

While I'm delighted to have actually started getting this underway, I feel I've got an uphill battle ahead of me. I'd love to hear some advice, personal experiences, etc from other boards users who have been in similar situation or know of others who have started from similar positions.

The dietary changes he has pushed so far; post workout (I've had 3 so far, DOMS is horrific!) to cut out carbs with my meal, i.e., for example go with a baked fillet of salmon and vegetables, "the greener the better", and ensure at least 50% of my plate is veg. First thing I'm to eat in the morning is half an avocado and chicken fillet.
Take a krill oil each morning & evening.

The plan is do body fat measurements every 2 weeks to monitor progress - I intend on posting my progress on boards.

ford2600

First of best of luck.

Regarding DOMS read this
http://revolutionfitness.ie/3-tips-deal-doms/

I've no idea how hard losing weight is but I would keep the following in mind
* Consistency is essential
* Get to like clean foods, be it fish, chicken, kale, broccoli or whatever. You can train your tastebuds to like almost anything. Your an adult quit the whinging
* learn to cook, spices are your friend
* This change isn't for 6 months or 12 months it's for life.
* Most people will be supportive, use the complements as motivation and remember anything negative is just someone reacting to your change challenging them
* We are hard wired to seek calorie dense palatable food, while that was an advantage in the jungle/desert or wherever in our mostly toxic junk food environment it means that pizza/chips/ice cream etc etc is always going to look good. Maybe learn to associate junk food with looking and feeling bad or similar; use your rational (newer brain) to beat the ancient animal one
* Improve your sleep aclai.ie has a few posts on it
* Get an activity you like and enjoy to do which requires some movement, be it cycling, racket sports anything

Oryx

On your bad days (and you will have bad days) when you want to quit, come back and read your opening post here and remind yourself why you are doing it. If you are getting bored or unmotivated, talk to your trainer for a shake up of your program. Find something to motivate yourself apart from random 'lose weight ' or 'get fitter'. An event, or sport, or challenge you currently cant do. Something like that will keep you going when you dont want to.

Ezra Wibberley

ford2600 wrote: »

First of best of luck.
* Get to like clean foods, be it fish, chicken, kale, broccoli or whatever. You can train your tastebuds to like almost anything. Your an adult quit the whinging
* learn to cook, spices are your friend

^^This isn't going to be much of a problem. I have turned around my eating pretty well of late, so the exercise program was the next natural step. I feared overwhelming myself by attempting it all at once, so decided to 'sort' my diet first. This is actually going pretty well most of the time. Spices are indeed my friend My diet isn't perfect but processed foods intake has dramatically dropped over last few months, and plan to continually improve my diet slowly and steadily.

ford2600 wrote: »

remember anything negative is just someone reacting to your change challenging them

Interesting observation!

Ezra Wibberley

Oryx wrote: »

On your bad days (and you will have bad days) when you want to quit, come back and read your opening post here and remind yourself why you are doing it. If you are getting bored or unmotivated, talk to your trainer for a shake up of your program. Find something to motivate yourself apart from random 'lose weight ' or 'get fitter'. An event, or sport, or challenge you currently cant do. Something like that will keep you going when you dont want to.

Good solid advice. I need to think about this one. I've never had a particular love of anything sporty. Have completed a half marathon previously and know that running is not enjoyable for me. Maybe cycling.. or swimming.

jester77

Are you taking photos of your progress? If not you should. Stick that initial photo on your mirror where you get ready each morning as a source of motivation. Create shopping lists before you go shopping and stick to them, don't deviate. If you have a good solid shopping list, you won't succumb to buying unhealthy food. Best of luck. The DOMS will ease off after a few sessions.

Zillah

ford2600 wrote: »

Regarding DOMS read this
http://revolutionfitness.ie/3-tips-deal-doms/

I did some googling. I wonder if Hanley knows that all of the ZMA studies which suggested it works were funded by supplement companies.

ford2600

Zillah wrote: »

I did some googling. I wonder if Hanley knows that all of the ZMA studies which suggested it works were funded by supplement companies.

Maybe so, but placebo effect kicked in for me with ZMA!:pac:

It was probably better sleep and little more protein though

Hanley

Zillah wrote: »

I did some googling. I wonder if Hanley knows that all of the ZMA studies which suggested it works were funded by supplement companies.

I wonder if he cares.

Just take magnesium instead if it's that big of a deal.

Zillah

I wonder if he's feeling confrontational for no reason?

Ezra Wibberley

I'm unsure if I should be going down the protein shake route yet really? Perhaps wrongly, in my mind its the type of thing that is only for people who are well into a weights routine? Or is it the case of people like me, in infancy of weight training need it even more? Thinking of sticking to lean meats after work outs for my protein, but maybe this isn't the way to go?

Ezra Wibberley

jester77 wrote: »

Are you taking photos of your progress? If not you should. Stick that initial photo on your mirror where you get ready each morning as a source of motivation

I haven't taken photographs, but this sounds like a good idea to give real tangible evidence of progress. I know at times it may feel like progress isn't being made when it is!

desertcircus

I'd echo the suggestion to work on finding a physical activity you enjoy doing. Of the people I know who've dropped a significant amount of weight and kept it off, almost every one of them has taken up a sport.

Tiddlypeeps

Ezra Wibberley wrote: »

I'm unsure if I should be going down the protein shake route yet really? Perhaps wrongly, in my mind its the type of thing that is only for people who are well into a weights routine? Or is it the case of people like me, in infancy of weight training need it even more? Thinking of sticking to lean meats after work outs for my protein, but maybe this isn't the way to go?

Protein shakes aren't needed if weight loss is the goal, they aren't even needed if putting on muscle is the goal, they are just a convenient source of protein. One thing I can say about them tho is that they make me feel really full for fairly little calories, so on days where I do have one I'm much less likely to over eat on other stuff and I'm much less likely to snack. If you don't feel they will help you then don't bother with them, if you find it hard to eat enough protein or you find you are hungry through out the day then maybe give them a try.

lawred2

Zillah wrote: »

I did some googling. I wonder if Hanley knows that all of the ZMA studies which suggested it works were funded by supplement companies.

what is ZMA?

Ezra Wibberley

..double post removed..

Ezra Wibberley

Work offered a free body composition analysis today, which I gladly accepted.

I have a scan copy of my results here... but as a new user I can't attach images or links. Perhaps if somebody PM'd me, I could give them the link and let them upload the picture for discussion?

Zillah

lawred2 wrote: »

what is ZMA?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZMA_%28supplement%29

Seems like it might be a placebo unless you have some actual vitamin deficiencies.

Squall Leonhart

Ezra Wibberley wrote: »

I have a scan copy of my results here... but as a new user I can't attach images or links. Perhaps if somebody PM'd me, I could give them the link and let them upload the picture for discussion?

PM sent

Squall Leonhart

Image attached on behalf of Ezra..

Ezra Wibberley

Thanks Squall!

So it appears my body fat % according to today's assessment is 32.1%, which is definitely better than 35, but I'm not sure how accurate either measurement is to be honest. Suffice to say even within a good margin of error I'm well on the wrong end of things.

As somebody who doesn't really understand the rest of the measurements, can anybody comment on the numbers?

Dtp1979

Ezra Wibberley wrote: »

Thanks Squall!

So it appears my body fat % according to today's assessment is 32.1%, which is definitely better than 35, but I'm not sure how accurate either measurement is to be honest. Suffice to say even within a good margin of error I'm well on the wrong end of things.

As somebody who doesn't really understand the rest of the measurements, can anybody comment on the numbers?

Bioelectrical impedance isn't a very good way of measuring body fat or anything else. It's most accurate first thing in the morning, after fasting.

koutoubia

I used to take ZMA before bed but I had to stop as I was getting very deep very real dreams some of which disturbed me so stopped.
Tried two different brands but with the same effect!

Ezra Wibberley

Dtp1979 wrote: »

Bioelectrical impedance isn't a very good way of measuring body fat or anything else. It's most accurate first thing in the morning, after fasting.

Thanks Dtp1979, so in your opinion the calipers (if used competently) are more likely to give accurate readings?

Intervals tonight... still feeling damn sore after Monday night. I'm sure it'll be fine once I start into it. Best thing is it's only about 35 minutes but it's quite full on (if you ever want a way to extend your life, intervals for me seem to slow down my life, "only 6 more seconds..." haha)

Zillah

Am I right in saying that you're going back into exercise while you still have DOMS?

Dtp1979

Ezra Wibberley wrote: »

Thanks Dtp1979, so in your opinion the calipers (if used competently) are more likely to give accurate readings?

Intervals tonight... still feeling damn sore after Monday night. I'm sure it'll be fine once I start into it. Best thing is it's only about 35 minutes but it's quite full on (if you ever want a way to extend your life, intervals for me seem to slow down my life, "only 6 more seconds..." haha)

Callipers are fairly accurate and cheap to do. Dexa scan would be optimum but way to expensive

Ezra Wibberley

Zillah wrote: »

Am I right in saying that you're going back into exercise while you still have DOMS?

You are correct.

My first session, weights, was last Tuesday, followed by a day of rest and interval training on Thursday.

Then I resumed with weights on Monday, rest day yesterday and will have intervals tonight, weights tomorrow.

To be honest, I'm in much better shape heading into intervals tonight than I was last week. Last week was cruel, but when I got moving and warmed up the interval session was manageable (but tough!). Today I'm sore but not whimpering up stairs!

Tar.Aldarion

Foam rolling removes a lot of pain for me. I don't think it matters when i eat after, be it a minute or hours (afaik zma and bcaas are mostly pointless). Initial pain will be more intense, just because you've not been using the muscles. Sounds like you are exercising different muscles than the ones that gave you DOMS today and will be back to them tomorrow?

Blacktie.

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

Foam rolling removes a lot of pain for me

OP be advised while doing it, especially at the start, this will hurt!

Ezra Wibberley

I don't think my gym has foam rollers, but I could be wrong. I'm not sure. How do they work out of interest?

TarAldarion, you're correct, there's a slight overlap on the work tonight with Monday's work (upper legs will be put under pressure tonight, walking up and down steps with a kettle bell in each hand) but it's not nearly as demanding as the leg specific free weight exercises. Tonight is 25secs of an exercise, 10secs breather, some with weights, some without, repeat through different exercises.

Valmont

I usually go to the gym before work during the summer when the days are long and it's not as cold. When winter sets in I just start going after work instead. It can get very hard to get up at 6am to go the gym in the middle of November when it's dark, raining, and cold.

Tar.Aldarion

Ezra Wibberley wrote: »

I don't think my gym has foam rollers, but I could be wrong. I'm not sure. How do they work out of interest?

TarAldarion, you're correct, there's a slight overlap on the work tonight with Monday's work (upper legs will be put under pressure tonight, walking up and down steps with a kettle bell in each hand) but it's not nearly as demanding as the leg specific free weight exercises. Tonight is 25secs of an exercise, 10secs breather, some with weights, some without, repeat through different exercises.

I bought my own as gym ones aren't great anyway.http://www.amazon.co.uk/Trigger-Point-Performance-Grid-Roller/dp/B0040EGNIU/ref=sr_1_sc_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1445448573&sr=8-1-spell&keywords=tiggerpoint They basically are for a self deep tissue massage using your own body weight to remove "knots" from muscles instead of hiring somebody to do it. http://breakingmuscle.com/mobility-recovery/what-is-a-foam-roller-how-do-i-use-it-and-why-does-it-hurt

"The goal to any corrective or recovery technique is to get you back to the point of normal functioning, as if nothing was ever wrong."

That training is fine, I just work on different muscles while the others are sore.

Ezra Wibberley

^^Thanks for the link. Do you find it effective? Is it something you use only when you have DOMS or is it something you tend to use after workouts in general?

Last nights interval training (weighted stair walks, skipping, farmers walk, ropes, bar lifts) went well, actually feel almost perfect today, just mild stiffness. Feeling good just in time to undo it tonight :P

Tar.Aldarion

Yeah I find it very good, I don't do it as much as I should as I get lazy. The ideal is to do it after your workouts in general. I find it definitely reduces length of DOMS.

ford2600

OP a couple of more things which may/may not be useful
*you are looking at 12 months in your op. 12 months is a long time for anything but a really like time to be doing something which is often really hard. Break in up into chunks from the outset, write it down and make a plan.
* Your body will react very significantly to fat loss, especially in terms of a hormonal response. Some of these you can't do anything about, but you can control stress. Stress will fcuk you if you let it, which is why you should actively build in stress reducers e.g. social activity, yoga, more sex, whatever The hormonal response is endlessly complicated and you don't need to understand it but you need to use stress reduction and good sleep as your two main weapons. I'd give them as much emphasis as diet/exercise.
*over 12 months you'll probably get stalling in weight loss, don't panic relax, take a day or two reappraise. Maintenance at 90Kgs or whatever for a few weeks is 100 times better than panicking are tearing up plan.

onasis

Ezra Wibberley wrote: »

Good solid advice. I need to think about this one. I've never had a particular love of anything sporty. Have completed a half marathon previously and know that running is not enjoyable for me. Maybe cycling.. or swimming.

I found this too. For a long time I equated fitness with an ability to run. I spent ages on the treadmill and eventually managed to get to about 7k in 50 minute session. Great, except that I hated every minute of it. I took up spinning instead and love it. I do 4 spinning classes a week, 1 body tone, 1 weights and 1 Pt and I laugh every time I walk past the treadmill. I suggest you do what you love because you'll love what you do and this will keep you motivated.

Ezra Wibberley

ford2600 wrote:

Your body will react very significantly to fat loss, especially in terms of a hormonal response. Some of these you can't do anything about, but you can control stress. Stress will fcuk you if you let it, which is why you should actively build in stress reducers e.g. social activity, yoga, more sex, whatever The hormonal response is endlessly complicated and you don't need to understand it but you need to use stress reduction and good sleep as your two main weapons. I'd give them as much emphasis as diet/exercise.

Thanks Ford.

I am very curious about the hormonal response to fat loss you are talking about. Are you saying losing fat and gaining muscle will trigger noticeable mental stress in the body? I don't dispute it I'd just like to learn more about it.


Quick update: did two weight sessions this week and didn't get in my interval session due to the bank holiday and the way my weekends work out. Weights have been slightly increased for some sets and I think I'm doing OK. The pain the day/two days after is significantly less than it had been, more an awareness if having trained and maybe a slight weakness in those muscles, but happy with that!

Ezra Wibberley

onasis wrote:

I found this too. For a long time I equated fitness with an ability to run. I spent ages on the treadmill and eventually managed to get to about 7k in 50 minute session. Great, except that I hated every minute of it. I took up spinning instead and love it. I do 4 spinning classes a week, 1 body tone, 1 weights and 1 Pt and I laugh every time I walk past the treadmill. I suggest you do what you love because you'll love what you do and this will keep you motivated.

Thanks for the advice Onasis!

Brings me to another query... Does weight training actually increase fitness at all? Sure I know that strength develops and I am out of breath after hard sets, but does it actually increase fitness? Like Onasis said, I tend to (wrongly I'm sure) equate fitness with an ability to run an undefined distance comfortably

Are you changing your diet? Honestly, the best advice anyone gave me "muscle is gained in the gym, fat is lost in the kitchen".

Have you ever heard of Couch to 5K (C25K)?

Ezra Wibberley

Deleted User wrote:

Are you changing your diet? Honestly, the best advice anyone gave me "muscle is gained in the gym, fat is lost in the kitchen".

Good advice. I am in the process of changing my diet alright, I'm pretty happy with my meals during the week but the weekends are still proving difficult to conquer. If I can whittle it down from treat days to treat day then to treat meal I'll be doing good. I feel I need some kind of carefree approach a day a week, it keeps me on the straight and narrow midweek.

Typical weekday;

Breakfast: chicken fillet, half avocado, krill oil capsule, glass of water

Mid morning: banana, coffee (I don't take sugar)

Lunch: wholegrain pasta salad with lighter than light mayonnaise, broccoli/green beans, tomatoes, chicken or salmon (or some minor variations on this)

Afternoon; coffee and banana

Dinner: salmon darne/prawns/chicken, broccoli /Brussels sprouts/green beans/2-3 baby potatoes or 60g rice (carbs omitted post workout meal)

Water throughout the day.

Nervous Wreck

OP, congrats on starting your journey! I'm gonna echo some other people's main points and throw in a couple of my own. This stuff worked for me; hopefully it'll work for you too:

• Consistency is key!
• Re-read your OP on your bad days
• Picture life at your goal weight and go hell for leather to get there
• Listen to your PT and never veer off-course
• Don't think of it as 12 months; think of it as 4 separate 3 month periods
• Punctuate your milestones with a gift to yourself (e.g. you reach 25% bodyfat, you get yourself a new CD etc)
• Take pictures as you go; you'll want to look back at the journey
• Buy a nice t-shirt that's too small for you; your next goal is to fit into it. When you do, wear it with pride!
• Have fun! Healthy eating and exercise is a reward in itself; it'll be enjoyable if you let it be.
• Make no excuses.
• Stay the course.
• Decide to succeed, then do it.

Finally OP, if you're going off course or feeling bad or if you faulter, come back here and tell us about it. We'll help you get back on the horse. Good luck!

Are you tracking your calories? Sign up for myfitnesspal and download the app for your smartphone. It's a really good utility for tracking what you eat and gives you a good idea about your totals to achieve your loss.

Just keep going. It's super tough, but worth it. Before Christmas I was just over 14 stone and unhappy, then I joined a gym and fixed my diet and have lost just under 2 stone since. I'm about 5 to 8 lbs off my goal, which I hope to achieve by Christmas.

Absolutely take photos. I sometimes look at the way I was then and it makes me feel so much better each time.

ford2600

Ezra Wibberley wrote: »

I am very curious about the hormonal response to fat loss you are talking about. Are you saying losing fat and gaining muscle will trigger noticeable mental stress in the body? I don't dispute it I'd just like to learn more about it.

Ah no, just that general stress, that associated with a difficult job, money worries relationship trouble etc etc will have a hormonal response which will in many be detrimental to weight loss. Use exercise/social outlets etc as means of controlling/reducing stress as another element in reducing bodyfat and getting healthier.

Also, other than hormones, for you to succeed you will need mental strength; reducing stress will help with this to.

I came at this a very different way to you; I'm for all my 40 years effortlessly lean, my father was the same and my mother always struggled. Over the years I've wondered why it was easy for me and hard for others. The hormonal model (along with what Stephan Gueyenet calls that hedonistic one) is the only one that explains it for me. For me the action of leptin, ghrelin etc and the hypothalmus will defend my 14% bodyfat, dysfunction in that same system will cause and an obese person's system to defend a much higher bodyfat level.

The cure seems to be the same, clean diet with plenty veg, plenty protein etc

TBH it probably not something you need to look at at all it's just something I find endlessly interesting.

Best of luck, keep up the lifting and the HIIT along with diet and enjoy the new lifestyle.

Below is a good source of info. Each podcast will have the guests own website, books etc etc. You did ask!

http://sigmanutrition.com/podcasts
64,72,84,89

Alf Veedersane

ford2600 wrote: »

Below is a good source of info. Each podcast will have the guests own website, books etc etc. You did ask!

http://sigmanutrition.com/podcasts
64,72,84,89

Like Ford said, you don't necessarily need to know but if you're interested, then that's a great resource.

Ezra Wibberley

ford2600 wrote:

TBH it probably not something you need to look at at all it's just something I find endlessly interesting.

ford2600 wrote:

Best of luck, keep up the lifting and the HIIT along with diet and enjoy the new lifestyle.

Thanks Ford, it is very interesting stuff. It's fascinating really.

So my trainer did my body fats again tonight, 17 days after doing the first one, and 7 gym sessions in that time.

A reminder of my 1st day...


19th October: 106kg & 34.6% body fat

Today I weighed in at 107.3kg. He said I have lost 1.3kg (3lb) of fat but gained 2.6kg (6lb) of muscle. He said this is a high initial gain because I was coming from a place of having a low muscle mass but muscle gains will drop off.

All in all I think I'm happy with this! At least it's progress, less fat is good. Honestly I was disheartened looking at scales last few days at the weight gain, but happier now I see the reasons.

Hemerodrome

Ezra Wibberley wrote: »

Brings me to another query... Does weight training actually increase fitness at all? Sure I know that strength develops and I am out of breath after hard sets, but does it actually increase fitness? Like Onasis said, I tend to (wrongly I'm sure) equate fitness with an ability to run an undefined distance comfortably

Yes, it does, but then you need to define fitness. Powerlifting will increase your powerlifting fitness, running will increase your running fitness and so on. Fitness is the ability to perform whatever it is you set out to perform, so you need to identify performance parameters before you can say you're improving fitness. I'd beat the world's strongest man over a mile, he'd beat me at a truck pull, but neither of us is aiming for the other's fitness parameters and we're both fit in our different ways.

Ezra Wibberley

I guess to me being fit or improving fitness is something that will increase my life span or enhance my health and improve my wellbeing, my quality of life. Make my heart stronger etc.

That may be a horrible definition for some people, but when I say I want my fitness to improve I mean those things really, not the ability to powerlift or run a marathon as such.

Mellor

Hemerodrome wrote: »

I'd beat the world's strongest man over a mile, he'd beat me at a truck pull, but neither of us is aiming for the other's fitness parameters and we're both fit in our different ways.

But fitness isn't the reason you are beating him, or vice versa. If you both trained opposite for a year (him in running, you in strongman) the out come wouldn't change.

Assessing fitness improvements should be done against yourself. 6 months on a good weight lifting routine would provay aldo improve OP's mile time.

Hemerodrome

Nothing horrible or wrong with your definition or aims, you just have to work out how it best suits you to achieve them and focus on that, rather than a generic question like "will x activity make me 'fitter'". Lots of people fall down because they don't have clear goals, leading to them spending too much time working towards the wrong one.

Hemerodrome

Mellor wrote: »

But fitness isn't the reason you are beating him, or vice versa.

Yes, it is actually. I don't have his strength, he doesn't have my running ability, they are two different expressions of fitness, which was the point of my post, there are different aspects and definitions of fitness besides the generic aerobic fitness most people reach for, as the OP was doing.

Mellor

Hemerodrome wrote: »

Yes, it is actually. I don't have his strength, he doesn't have my running ability, they are two different expressions of fitness, which was the point of my post, there are different aspects and definitions of fitness besides the generic aerobic fitness most people reach for, as the OP was doing.

My point was its mostly a factor of intrinsic ability rather than trained fitness - if you want to include that ability as a natural fitness, that fair enough but its not what the OP was asking.

He asked would weights improve his ability to run a set distance comfortable, accepting that was probably not a good definition of fitness. The simple answer was yes it most likely will.