35% Body Fat

Tar.Aldarion

Ezra Wibberley wrote: »

I guess to me being fit or improving fitness is something that will increase my life span or enhance my health and improve my wellbeing, my quality of life. Make my heart stronger etc.

That may be a horrible definition for some people, but when I say I want my fitness to improve I mean those things really, not the ability to powerlift or run a marathon as such.

Not a horrible definition imo, quite a common one really, but as mentioned it's better to specifically say what you wnat as people have different ideas on fitness and what it is. I think cardiovascular health form things like eh cardio is extremely important for what you want. But then again people running marathons may be doing too much strain on their heart, I don't know. Then I think lifting can be quite good for health but read studies saying calorie restriction increases lifespan (no idea if it is bs) and that is often the opposite with building and maintaining muscle. One thing I noticed before was the most muscled people at my gym only last a few minutes on the threadmill before being knackered (I realise not all are like this), which really doesn't seem the best to me (they also avoid cardio to not "lose gains"). I'm not really sure what to do that is best for overall health and longevity but it is interesting to me.

Dtp1979

Ezra Wibberley wrote: »

Thanks Ford, it is very interesting stuff. It's fascinating really.

So my trainer did my body fats again tonight, 17 days after doing the first one, and 7 gym sessions in that time.

A reminder of my 1st day...


19th October: 106kg & 34.6% body fat

Today I weighed in at 107.3kg. He said I have lost 1.3kg (3lb) of fat but gained 2.6kg (6lb) of muscle. He said this is a high initial gain because I was coming from a place of having a low muscle mass but muscle gains will drop off.

All in all I think I'm happy with this! At least it's progress, less fat is good. Honestly I was disheartened looking at scales last few days at the weight gain, but happier now I see the reasons.

How did your trainer know so accurately that you gained 6lb muscle and lost 3lb fat?

Mellor

Dtp1979 wrote: »

How did your trainer know so accurately that you gained 6lb muscle and lost 3lb fat?

Weight x bodyfat % before vrs Weight x bodyfat % after.

Completely at the mercy of the inaccuracies of BF%

Ezra Wibberley

Mellor wrote:

Completely at the mercy of the inaccuracies of BF%

I accept that there are inaccuracies and this (my reported fat loss/muscle gain) may not be correct but I'm hoping that even within margins of error that I have indeed gained muscle and lost fat and that this accounts for my weight gain, as from a dietary point of view it makes no sense to me that I'd be up 3lb.

Tar.Aldarion

I don't think the diet is being tracked correctly so, that's over 10000 calories that got in you without you knowing. :-p
I always overestimate my calories and round up, I find it's more accurate.

Ian Whelan

I have recently come off a weight loss and tone up programme. I dropped 18kg in around 4 months. From 108kg to around 90kg (where I now am). I did it by restricting my intake of carbs, upping my protein, stopping drinking and by training hard in the gym 5-6 times per week. I'm now pretty much where I want to be. I can safely say that the best thing I discovered during the journey was Branch Chain Amino Acids. They really helped with weight loss and with recovery after exercise, I would recommend them to anyone, I think they are superb. That's all I have to say on the topic really, it's very hard but it's worth it.

Blacktie.

Ian Whelan wrote:

I have recently come off a weight loss and tone up programme. I dropped 18kg in around 4 months. From 108kg to around 90kg (where I now am). I did it by restricting my intake of carbs, upping my protein, stopping drinking and by training hard in the gym 5-6 times per week. I'm now pretty much where I want to be. I can safely say that the best thing I discovered during the journey was Branch Chain Amino Acids. They really helped with weight loss and with recovery after exercise, I would recommend them to anyone, I think they are superb. That's all I have to say on the topic really, it's very hard but it's worth it.

I think your entire attitude and change of lifestyle helped a lot more than BCAAs. No research that I know of has confirmed whether they make any difference to eating a high protein diet and it doesn't make sense to me why they would. Unless training fasted anyway and even then I'm not 100% sold on them making a difference.

Alf Veedersane

Ian Whelan wrote: »

I have recently come off a weight loss and tone up programme. I dropped 18kg in around 4 months. From 108kg to around 90kg (where I now am). I did it by restricting my intake of carbs, upping my protein, stopping drinking and by training hard in the gym 5-6 times per week. I'm now pretty much where I want to be. I can safely say that the best thing I discovered during the journey was Branch Chain Amino Acids. They really helped with weight loss and with recovery after exercise, I would recommend them to anyone, I think they are superb. That's all I have to say on the topic really, it's very hard but it's worth it.

Just curious on this (sorry, I know it's OT). BCAAs don't usually confer any extra benefit if your protein intake is high enough (over 1g/kg) so just wondered if you had gone through a decent spell on high protein diet without the BCAAs that meant you could say the BCAAs made a noticeable difference when you started on them?

Ian Whelan

On the website it says: "Scivation XTEND helps to facilitate both fat loss and new muscle construction. Also, by orchestrating optimal protein synthesis and by balancing the intracellular energy economy, Scivation XTEND severely truncates recovery time. You just don’t feel recovered, you are recovered."

It may well be a scam but I think it has helped me as I am rarely incredibly sore after training. I remember years ago I was training easier than I am now and I could hardly shampoo my hair in the mornings. I think they have made a difference to me anyway.

Ian Whelan

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Just curious on this (sorry, I know it's OT). BCAAs don't usually confer any extra benefit if your protein intake is high enough (over 1g/kg) so just wondered if you had gone through a decent spell on high protein diet without the BCAAs that meant you could say the BCAAs made a noticeable difference when you started on them?

I went through about 2 weeks without taking them. That was from June 16th to the beginning of July. Then the soreness started to get a bit much so I started on the BCAAs after never having taken them before and things picked up from there. It may well be that things would have picked up anyway but I don't know. Anyway, even if they make only 1% of a difference I think that at the moment I'd rater spend my money on them than on pints of Heineken.

Dtp1979

Ian Whelan wrote: »

On the website it says: "Scivation XTEND helps to facilitate both fat loss and new muscle construction. Also, by orchestrating optimal protein synthesis and by balancing the intracellular energy economy, Scivation XTEND severely truncates recovery time. You just don’t feel recovered, you are recovered."

.

And if you spray Lynx on yourself, girls will run after you and want to kiss you

Alf Veedersane

Ian Whelan wrote: »

It may well be a scam but I think it has helped me as I am rarely incredibly sore after training. I remember years ago I was training easier than I am now and I could hardly shampoo my hair in the mornings. I think they have made a difference to me anyway.

The reduced soreness is largely due to adaptation which reduces DOMS.

Ian Whelan

Dtp1979 wrote: »

And if you spray Lynx on yourself, girls will run after you and want to kiss you

And that exactly the reason I had to stop using it.

Nervous Wreck

Ezra Wibberley wrote: »

I accept that there are inaccuracies and this (my reported fat loss/muscle gain) may not be correct but I'm hoping that even within margins of error that I have indeed gained muscle and lost fat and that this accounts for my weight gain, as from a dietary point of view it makes no sense to me that I'd be up 3lb.

I wouldn't even worry about a margin of error on this. Assuming the guy does the bf measurements the same way each time, inaccuracies won't matter. I.e. If both measurements taken were done inaccurately to the same degree of inaccuracy, the difference between the 2 measurements is still an accurate measure of progress.

TL;DR You're doing great!

deco72

Ezra Wibberley wrote: »

Good advice. I am in the process of changing my diet alright, I'm pretty happy with my meals during the week but the weekends are still proving difficult to conquer. If I can whittle it down from treat days to treat day then to treat meal I'll be doing good. I feel I need some kind of carefree approach a day a week, it keeps me on the straight and narrow midweek.

Typical weekday;

Breakfast: chicken fillet, half avocado, krill oil capsule, glass of water

Mid morning: banana, coffee (I don't take sugar)

Lunch: wholegrain pasta salad with lighter than light mayonnaise, broccoli/green beans, tomatoes, chicken or salmon (or some minor variations on this)

Afternoon; coffee and banana

Dinner: salmon darne/prawns/chicken, broccoli /Brussels sprouts/green beans/2-3 baby potatoes or 60g rice (carbs omitted post workout meal)

Water throughout the day.

Can I ask why carbs are omitted post workout? I thought that carbs are best post workout to help repair the muscles and aid recovery.

Mars Bar

2 bananas seems a bit much if you are trying for low carb. That's 50g of fast release carbs.

The carbs omitted after training does seem a bit strange. I have been told from more than one PT that starchy carbs after a workout is best to replace the glycogen you just used.

Dtp1979

Mars Bar wrote: »

2 bananas seems a bit much if you are trying for low carb. That's 50g of fast release carbs.

The carbs omitted after training does seem a bit strange. I have been told from more than one PT that starchy carbs after a workout is best to replace the glycogen you just used.

You're right but this guy is going for a high fat/protein low carb diet. Goes against basic science in my opinion but others will swear by it

Mars Bar

Dtp1979 wrote: »

You're right but this guy is going for a high fat/protein low carb diet. Goes against basic science in my opinion but others will swear by it

If he's going all out low carb then he should be ditching those bananas and using those carbs for post workout. I'd replace the bananas with nuts.

Mellor

Dtp1979 wrote: »

You're right but this guy is going for a high fat/protein low carb diet. Goes against basic science in my opinion but others will swear by it

2x Bananas as snacks, pasta for lunch, potatos or rice for dinner. It's not remotely low carb imo. The only carbs he has mentioned cutting out is post workout - I've don't know why his trainer has pushed for that?

Dtp1979

Mellor wrote: »

2x Bananas as snacks, pasta for lunch, potatos or rice for dinner. It's not remotely low carb imo. The only carbs he has mentioned cutting out is post workout - I've don't know why his trainer has pushed for that?

Sorry I'm only half following this thread. I thought( too lazy to read back) he was on a high fat/protein low carb and this didn't or never dies make sense to me

Mellor

It doesn't make sense to me either. I could understand cutting carbs entirely, don't agree but understand. Or even having carbs only around workouts - my approach. But eliminating post work out only I don't get.

Ezra Wibberley

Mellor wrote: »

2x Bananas as snacks, pasta for lunch, potatos or rice for dinner. It's not remotely low carb imo. The only carbs he has mentioned cutting out is post workout - I've don't know why his trainer has pushed for that?

Just to clarify, I never claimed I was on a low carb diet. just that I was cutting out carbs post workout as Mellor correctly identified.

My trainer had mentioned that by cutting out carbs post workout, my body would seek to burn fat as it's energy source rather than giving it a carb source to burn. You got me curious though, so I did a little reading and found this, which seems to be what my trainer was saying;

www . bodybuilding . com /fun/ditch_post_workout_carbs.htm

He has also now told me to stop with the pasta salads for lunch, and to switch to brown rice, 50g. I haven't gone ahead with this yet, but will be from next week. I think the plan is to slowly introduce dietary changes.

I'll be honest, I am struggling with keeping my diet on the right path, but continue to try.

Alf Veedersane

Ezra Wibberley wrote: »

I'll be honest, I am struggling with keeping my diet on the right path, but continue to try.

Is there any particular element of it you're struggling with?

Ezra Wibberley

Nervous Wreck wrote: »

I wouldn't even worry about a margin of error on this. Assuming the guy does the bf measurements the same way each time, inaccuracies won't matter. I.e. If both measurements taken were done inaccurately to the same degree of inaccuracy, the difference between the 2 measurements is still an accurate measure of progress.

TL;DR You're doing great!

Thanks for the encouragement!

Ezra Wibberley

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Is there any particular element of it you're struggling with?

I'm finding it hard to stop sugar cravings, the 'need' for a chocolate bar here and there. I'm not exactly knocking back the cakes and fizzy drinks and biscuits and bars, but I am having the (too) occasional 'treat' which I know will cumulatively hinder my progress. It's frustrating.

Alf Veedersane

Ezra Wibberley wrote: »

I'm finding it hard to stop sugar cravings, the 'need' for a chocolate bar here and there. I'm not exactly knocking back the cakes and fizzy drinks and biscuits and bars, but I am having the (too) occasional 'treat' which I know will cumulatively hinder my progress. It's frustrating.

Sometimes what can help is if you schedule a treat. Something that is a bit more in keeping with your progress/goals. That way you don't feel like you're depriving yourself because you know there's a chance to treat yourself with a bar or something and it means you're less likely to just treat/reward yourself whenever you see fit

deco72

If your craving chocolate try stick to more than 70% dark choc. Lidl do a good range that don't taste too bad. You could also check out some protein bars like Quest but these tend to have high carbs in them also.

I also find that fage yoghurt and waldens farm chocolate sauce is good for a chocolate craving. Maybe have a look at these and see what you think.

I would also ask your PT what would be best to help with the sugar cravings as they may also have some good tips.

MartyMcFly84

I find Quest bars really help with my sugar/treat cravings. They use stevia as a sweetener so the chocolate tastes close to regular sugar sweetened chocolate.

After a while you see them a treat and regular desserts and sweets can almost be too sweet, and you naturally eat them less and less.

I still have the odd dessert but I am in no way craving it on a daily basis.

Hanley

Track craving times.

I bet there's a routine.

20 minutes before you normally get a craving, have a good quality snack.

Willpower eliminated.

Clearlier

You might want to consider giving up refined sugar completely. I hesitate slightly to say that I've successfully followed this path but with the deliberate exception of Christmas cake and mince pies it has been a year since I ate any chocolate or sweets.

I had to stop eating fruit in order to get through the initial cravings and I haven't really re-introduced it because it's a bit like a gateway drug for me.

Eliminating refined sugar from my diet didn't cause me to lose any weight but it did allow me to retake control of my diet and subsequently lose about 2 stone (still a work in progress).

Tar.Aldarion

Good savoury snacks are so much better than bars and ****e. I'll bet it is the evening they get weak.

Nervous Wreck

Hanley wrote: »

Track craving times.

I bet there's a routine.

20 minutes before you normally get a craving, have a good quality snack.

Willpower eliminated.

Fantastic advice; never woulda thought like this!

Hanley

Nervous Wreck wrote: »

Fantastic advice; never woulda thought like this!

That's why they pay me the big bucks

Squall Leonhart

Hanley wrote: »

Track craving times.

I bet there's a routine.

20 minutes before you normally get a craving, have a good quality snack.

Willpower eliminated.

This is quite possibly the best advice I've ever read on boards!

Hanley

Squall Leonhart wrote: »

This is quite possibly the best advice I've ever read on boards!

There's a comment to get your day started the right way. Thank you!

Dtp1979

Hanley wrote: »

There's a comment to get your day started the right way. Thank you!

It's great advice. You should do it for a living

Ezra Wibberley

Thanks to all for the responses and advice. Apologies I've been dragging my heels a bit on replying here!

The tracking when I get cravings idea is brilliant, one I must really give a go.

Another poster mentioned using MyFitnessPal. I might give this a go, if nothing else when used honestly gives a real picture of diet and calories. I have used it before and found it very good, especially love the way you can use your phone's camera to scan the barcode of things you've eaten.

From a workout point of view, the news here is that there is no real news, I'm still going, still putting in the effort, still knackered every time haha. It's becoming habitual now and I am finding it easier to go. Next body fats update should be this coming week, will update then.

Ezra Wibberley

19th October: 106kg & 34.6% body fat

5th November: 107kg & 32.8% body fat

Today, 23rd November: 107kg & 31.3% body fat


So the percentage is going the right way, but now I might need to start giving more focus to calories to drop the weight a bit, but at present I am just happy fat percentage is dropping.

CarolynSmith

Recommend the 5:2 diet. It comes down to eating limited calories two days a week. The rest of the week you can have what you like. It works.

Dtp1979

CarolynSmith wrote: »

Recommend the 5:2 diet. It comes down to eating limited calories two days a week. The rest of the week you can have what you like. It works.

So does licking Doritos but it's still not good for you

JonDoe

Ezra Wibberley wrote: »

So I've had an assessment done on my body fat (using calipers and being pinched and squeezed!), and have started a workout program.

- 31 years old
- male
- 177cm
- 106kg
- 35% body fat

37kg of my body is fat.

My trainer has told me that following his program (2 days weights a week, 1 day intervals) and by steadily introducing the dietary changes he's prescribing (he knows as well as I do that if he does a 100% overhaul overnight the chances of me sticking rigidly to it are low!) it will take 10-12 months to get me to 15% body fat.

While I'm delighted to have actually started getting this underway, I feel I've got an uphill battle ahead of me. I'd love to hear some advice, personal experiences, etc from other boards users who have been in similar situation or know of others who have started from similar positions.

The dietary changes he has pushed so far; post workout (I've had 3 so far, DOMS is horrific!) to cut out carbs with my meal, i.e., for example go with a baked fillet of salmon and vegetables, "the greener the better", and ensure at least 50% of my plate is veg. First thing I'm to eat in the morning is half an avocado and chicken fillet.
Take a krill oil each morning & evening.

The plan is do body fat measurements every 2 weeks to monitor progress - I intend on posting my progress on boards.

Try going on a Kytogenic Diet, Fats 70% plus, the rest proteins and veg with little of no carbs. Forces your body to switch from blood sugar burning to fat reserve burning for fuel. You have to be strict for this to work as slightly more than a banana's worth of sugar will push your body out of ketosis, you can get testing pee strips on amazon.
It's a diet a lot of bodybuilders use when they are "cutting", the fats have an added benefit of being a testosterone building block.
Have a look at a basic strength regime too, Stronglifts 5x5 is a great starter, just holding onto muscle is a great calorie burner and lifting results in days of heightened metabolic rates . Lots of walking on rest days.

Alf Veedersane

Or the old fashioned eating good food in appropriate portions with the calorie content on mind.

deco72

Don't worry about the weight as this could easily stay the same as you continue with weight training. You should not be concerned about the scales only the body fat %, too many people fall into this category of thinking they should weight less and so cut calories instead of eating proper foods. Stick to what you are doing as it seems to be working. Listen to your trainer. Was he/she concerned about your weight or happy with the progress you have made??

Think of the positives you have dropped over 3% body fat in just a month that is serious progress. If you keep going at that rate you could drop another 3% by Xmas which is a very big achievement.

The reason you weight has gone up a little and the body fat% has gone down is due to your increase in muscle. This is a good thing so do not be worried about the number on the scales.

Keep up the good work!

Ezra Wibberley

He wasn't concerned about the weight element of it. He said he's happy to see the fat drop and muscle gain, but he did tell me if a lower number on the scales was what I wanted to see I'd need to start paying closer attention to calorie intake, but stated he's happy for my weight to stay the same once body composition is improving.

Thanks for the encouragement!

Also thanks to the two other posters who suggested dietary changes, the ketosis and 5/2 diets. I think I'm generally probably going to stick to what I've been doing with greater emphasis on reducing the less desirable food I consume, but definitely appreciate the info.

Ezra Wibberley

JonDoe wrote:

just holding onto muscle is a great calorie burner and lifting results in days of heightened metabolic rates . Lots of walking on rest days.

This is something I've been thinking about, doing something aerobic on rest days or at least one day. One step at a time I guess!

Nervous Wreck

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Or the old fashioned eating good food in appropriate portions with the calorie content on mind.

This.

Yer Aul One

Great stuff so far mate, keep it up!

kerry4sam

I have to say that I am loving your thread here; the honesty behind your postings and the drive and motivation you're investing in your future self

Keep up this Great Work,
kerry4sam

Ian Whelan

Ian Whelan wrote: »

the best thing I discovered during the journey was Branch Chain Amino Acids. They really helped with weight loss and with recovery after exercise, I would recommend them to anyone, I think they are superb.

Out of.. you know.. curiosity... ( )

I presume you're referring to this kinda thing?

http://www.bulkpowders.ie/branched-chain-amino-acid-tablets.html


Reason i ask is that, your post is about having lost a lot of weight, but from Googling about, these seem to be more geared towards building muscle and don't seem to give (or be promoted as giving) dietary help?


(my curiousity is peaked as I eat like a horse. No matter what the food is, I'd be constantly hungry, so I'd love to buy something like this if it was the kinda thing that made you feel really full, which is what I'm taking from your post?).

Alf Veedersane

BCAAs won't help you lose weight.

Most whey protein contains them anyway.

There's some evidence to suggest they help delay fatigue for people new to training so they might help you workout for a bit longer but they won't directly help you lose weight