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Triathlon Swimming - BS?
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20-10-2015 10:21am#1
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‘But we need to bilateral breathe to make the stroke even.’
Those within Trisutto.com swimming with Total Body Force method should know the last thing we want with the stroke is to have both sides even. In our own squad we even have some athletes using 2 different shaped paddles to make sure the stroke is uneven.
Was curious about that too.
Wonder if that is to build strength through imbalance? Same way that unbalanced barbells will help fire core stabilisers or uneven press-ups will fire different muscles.
The other think I was thinking was as it applies to mostly OW swimming in triathlon having unbalanced training may help in current situations where a stroke needs to be adapted for the conditions (?)
I'm asking questions BTW
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What he meant seemed quite clear in all but the point about learning to develop an unbalanced stroke. DD I think you're getting close to it but I'm not sure that's the complete answer.
Sometimes Mr Sutton does appear to be provocative for the sake of being provocative. I guess he's not alone in that however. I know PK is a fan though so maybe he will care to be equally provocative as this is genuinely an interesting point.
Swim toys = make poor swimmers feel more confident in a body of water and by doing so more likely to swim to their potential (whatever that may be, limited or otherwise).
Where would we be without the 'aul pull buoy
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What he meant seemed quite clear in all but the point about learning to develop an unbalanced stroke. DD I think you're getting close to it but I'm not sure that's the complete answer.
Sometimes Mr Sutton does appear to be provocative for the sake of being provocative. I guess he's not alone in that however. I know PK is a fan though so maybe he will care to be equally provocative as this is genuinely an interesting point.
Swim toys = make poor swimmers feel more confident in a body of water and by doing so more likely to swim to their potential (whatever that may be, limited or otherwise).
Where would we be without the 'aul pull buoy
he never said unbalanced, he said uneven. While we strive for symmetry in everything - albeit subconsciously, its even one of the features that people find attractive in the opposite sex - sometimes two wrongs can make a right and two different forms of asymmetry could, perhaps, result in symmetry.
Or he could just be trying to out peter peter on his suttonness.0 -
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I posed this bilateral/uneven stroke concept to Hillary Biscay since I knew she could explain to me Sutton's reason, and here is what she said:
"yes i have actually seen and heard sutto explain this concept in person many times. so here's the thing: everyone has a dominant side, and sutto believes that ignoring that and trying to "even out" one's stroke just for the sake of being even isn't necessarily productive as it combats one's body's natural rhythm. and he believes that in a lot of cases , tapping into one's natural tendencies/ rhythm is how that individual can be the strongest. and i actually think he is right--i've seen this in action many x over , including my own swimming AND running.
now the ability to, say, breathe to both sides , is important to have in the case of chop/ waves coming at you from one direction in a race. it is useful to be able to do this but , again, many of us are faster and more efficient breathing to the side that most suits the rhythm of our stroke.
i hope this makes some sense" 0 -
Thanks DD!!
Interesting that running is mentioned as this is a pet peeve for me where people are forcing forefoot and high cadence strides on themselves all because a book says its right. They then wonder why they come up injured.
Our natural rhythms have a lot to do with our individual mechanical limitations too. Thanks for the update 0 -
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Kurt_Godel wrote: »My swim credentials are no better than yours pgibbo, but from what I've picked up from various coaches, reading, articles, etc:
I think we all sing from more or less the same sheet as adult swimmers as opposed to those trained as coaches or natural born swimmers. We are good at picking up on stuff and trying it out.Kurt_Godel wrote: »...
Straight elbow- again, will cause too much shoulder stress by utilising a pull from the shoulder region almost exclusively. A bent elbow will engage chest, core, and side muscles too. (The classic coaches demo- stand upright with your arm held directly straight out in front, fingers pointing as far as possible. Have someone press down on your hand as you resist. Now introduce a slight bend at the elbow and try again, see the difference it makes).
This is something I've always wondered about. This demonstrates the lack of strength resisting a downward force. In swimming you are exerting a downwards force so being able to resist one has no bearing on the muscles used.
I think the ideal of the bent elbow is to encourage rotation in the body rather than empowering some unused torso muscles. Similarly when people talk about 'S' shapes with their hands you see people carving the entire alphabet in the water but the 'S' actually IS the natural pathway of the hand through the water, no need to dwell on it.Kurt_Godel wrote: »Asymmetric breathing/swimming- usually leads to a host of snaking issues from swimming, (and neck injury from overuse in breathing). Of course this doesn't have to be the case, but when you see the sheer emphasis of coaches teaching midpackers to swim symmetrically- to correct a host of bad issues- you'd question the value of turning this advice on its head.
From the womb we all have a dominant neck position, that our head naturally falls into. In the recent years I notice than many people are hung up on ensuring a baby gets balanced time facing each way to avoid this being compounded in development - I believe it is common practise with post natal physio.
Anywho, point being we all have a natural side to rotate our head towards, anything contrary to this is unnatural - so forcing bilateral breathing IMO may lead to neck injuries rather than cure them - bit like the forced unnatural cadence or forefoot patterns.Kurt_Godel wrote: »Again, all the above my 2c, and only applies generically.
Me too - just chin wagging and thinking. 0 -
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Good god, I never thought I'd ever be referencing swim smooth (sincerest apologies interested!
)...but, for those who are skeptical at what Mr. Sutton spouts yet think swim smooth is the gospel, here's an article to consider on the bent arm topic.
http://www.feelforthewater.com/2014/06/experimenting-with-straighter-arm.html0 -
Good god, I never thought I'd ever be referencing swim smooth (sincerest apologies interested!)...but, for those who are skeptical at what Mr. Sutton spouts yet think swim smooth is the gospel, here's an article to consider on the bent arm topic.
http://www.feelforthewater.com/2014/06/experimenting-with-straighter-arm.html
This then begs the question is BS talking straight arm pull or recovery? :pac:0 -
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:eek: What the hell does this mean???
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