I cannot handle my 21 Year Old!

Electric Sheep

If he shows up on Tuesday and disappears on Thursday, he has already pretty much moved out. Why does he show up? Is it, as another poster asked, to get his laundry done? If so, put a stop to that. Redecorate his room and tell him it is no longer his room. Change locks to house doors if necessary.

There is nothing for you to do here, he is an adult that has already moved out. Just wait it out until he realizes he wants more from life than being a bum. Or until his girlfriend realizes she wants more from life than living with a bum.

johnny osbourne

offer him 10k to move out

eviltimeban

I think people are being hard on the son, and while I understand the OP's frustration, changing the locks or some other drastic measure isn't going to solve the problem. I mean, he's still family and he's still going to be calling over, even if just for visits!

The facts seem to be as follows:

1. He doesn't want to work for the father;
2. He wants to do music, and is currently earning money from it.

So you could say that he's a "professional musician". He's not earning much, but earning ANYTHING as a musician can be seen as a success. He needs to build on that and either turn it into a regular paying gig (wedding bands earn a fortune), or encourage his creative side by helping him in the direction he wants to go in.

You want him to work as you don't want him to "do nothing". But you don't know what he's doing in this "nothing" time - he could be writing songs, or practicing his guitar (or whatever he plays), or making calls to try and get the gig sorted for the weekend. Maybe have a chat with him, ask him how he does it, how he works at his music - take an interest in that aspect of it.

Granted, his surly attitude isn't commendable and he should've grown out of it. There's no issue with him living at home at 21 (I didn't move out till I was 24), but he should contribute. Like I suggested earlier, he should give you a percentage of his gig earnings - tell him you'll be his manager!

dollyk

I an the mother of 6 kids
and now have 6 grandkids.
I can tell you what I learnt over the years.
If you dont let them fall, and keep saving them .
They wont learn how to pick themselves up.
Hes an adult, so have an adult conversation with him and herself.

Bicycle

Treat your son like an adult rather than like your child.

At the moment you are heading into an area where both of you could lose out. Your relationship with your son could be fractured and your son may not fulfil his potential.

Sit down with your son for a chat, in a neutral location. Ask your son what your son wants from life. Don't assume you know. Ask if there is any way you can help.

Calmly explain that the current situation is untenable. You are not getting any younger and there is a possibility you may want to down-size at some stage and going forward you want to think about the future of your business when you retire.

Ask your son how he envisages himself becoming independent and self-financing. See what he really wants in life. Tease out ideas as to how you can support him in this process.

Play with ideas, listen to suggestions, don't be judgemental.

I think all of us, as parents, just want our children to be happy and independent. 21 isn't very old these days. There is still a lot of growing up to be done.

Rushing in and issuing ultimatums could do more harm than good at the moment. Ask your son about his hopes and ambitions. Become an advocate rather than an authority figure. Try to come to a positive rather than a negative conclusion.

Seanachai

This story is very similar to my own and at the same age too, I was in a serious rut, I basically just signed on and went out at the weekends for almost a year. Looking back I know now that I was also struggling with depression and a bit of a drinking problem. Just because somebody appears to be living it up it doesn't mean that there isn't something eating away at them.

Ironically it was wanting to party more and buy nicer things for myself that motivated me to find work and move out, I liked having money. Your son seems to be a bit lost like I was at that time, but he'll probably come right on his own and might even move abroad to Canada or Oz to broaden his horizons. My da was a serious hard-ass and he couldn't even motivate me, I had to do it myself.

Wile E. Coyote

I can't believe so many people are advocating changing the locks already. He can't just go from one extreme of letting his son do what he wants to kicking him out of the family home without at least sitting him down and letting him know what's expected of him going forward first. You don't know if he's not happy contributing to bills if you've never asked.


He's 21. He's not a child but it's not uncommon at that age to not know what you want to do for the rest of your life. If it's music he's interested in and is already making money from it then encourage it. College isn't the be all and end all of a professional career so if it's not for him then don't force it. It's ok to lay down the law and give him a push in the right direction just don't push him straight off the cliff like some are suggesting.

KomradeBishop

Whatever you do, just make damn sure there's no underlying cause for the way he's behaving - people are rarely just 'lazy' or bums... - because if he is depressed or suffering anxiety or such, and you do something boneheaded like kick him out, then that can do a lot of damage, and permanently tar your relationship with him.

He has been working up until recently, so that is actually a big counterpoint to everything else in the OP - don't mix up your view of him as an employer, with your view of him as family, as you can't treat the two the same - kicking him out of the family home, over a work dispute, is a stupid thing to do.

He should either start another college course, or find fresh employment - if he fails to do either after e.g. 3-6 months, just start getting him to chip-in to the household bills (don't need to charge him 'rent' or anything - it's the family home after all, and you just want to get him working, not be taking a chunk out of all his future earnings, as that's closer to punitive given how sky-high all rents are now - just get him putting in his fair share to the bills).

That is fair, that isn't punitive, and it will motivate him into getting proper work so he isn't stuck for money.


Just remember: Unemployment is still high relative to good times (it's definitely not 'easy' to get a job), and the rental market is completely buggered with sky-high rents - if he ends up without a good avenue to employment, and trying to rent on the dole, that is going to screw him and potentially set him back, far more harshly than you expect or is necessary to get him active.

amdublin

nobothers wrote: »

Hi OP,
dont listen to any of this crap other posters are saying. do NOT change the locks or threaten to throw him out. your son is a CHILD. 21 is NOT a time to be forcing them into this so-called "adult world". you dont seem to be scroungers yourselves, as you said you run a business, so that reason alone will pretty much mean he most likely wont end up being a junkie or dole-waster down the line.

in short - don't bother fighting it, it will lead to mutual resentment down the line.
everything will be grand, and you seem to be forgetting that being in your twenties is actually these days being a teenager. they're children until about 26/27 in my mind, unless you're a culchie with absolutely ZERO opportunites at home and must work up in dublin or whatnot., it's a different ball game.

dubs and city people tend to live at home with their parents for that little while longer, and that's normal, and so is the behaviour of your son. dont go hard on him with all these rules etc. he's a child. you may not see the cute baby/child you once saw, and see a physical man, but he's 21 and has the brain of a child. simple as.

Speak for yourself. I don't know if you were a child until you were 26/27. I certainly was not. I was a home owner of 2 years at that stage.

mirrorwall14

amdublin wrote: »

Speak for yourself. I don't know if you were a child until you were 26/27. I certainly was not. I was a home owner of 2 years at that stage.

Ditto, I'm only 30 now and I definitely was not a child, either at 21 and most certainly not at 27. I was engaged and working a full time job

January

nobothers wrote: »

Hi OP,
dont listen to any of this crap other posters are saying. do NOT change the locks or threaten to throw him out. your son is a CHILD. 21 is NOT a time to be forcing them into this so-called "adult world". you dont seem to be scroungers yourselves, as you said you run a business, so that reason alone will pretty much mean he most likely wont end up being a junkie or dole-waster down the line.

in short - don't bother fighting it, it will lead to mutual resentment down the line.
everything will be grand, and you seem to be forgetting that being in your twenties is actually these days being a teenager. they're children until about 26/27 in my mind, unless you're a culchie with absolutely ZERO opportunites at home and must work up in dublin or whatnot., it's a different ball game.

dubs and city people tend to live at home with their parents for that little while longer, and that's normal, and so is the behaviour of your son. dont go hard on him with all these rules etc. he's a child. you may not see the cute baby/child you once saw, and see a physical man, but he's 21 and has the brain of a child. simple as.

Ah seriously? I had 4 kids by the time I was 27... I was definitely not a child until then. 21 year olds do not have the brain of a child.

stefanovich

eviltimeban wrote: »

I think people are being hard on the son, and while I understand the OP's frustration, changing the locks or some other drastic measure isn't going to solve the problem. I mean, he's still family and he's still going to be calling over, even if just for visits!

The facts seem to be as follows:

1. He doesn't want to work for the father;
2. He wants to do music, and is currently earning money from it.

So you could say that he's a "professional musician". He's not earning much, but earning ANYTHING as a musician can be seen as a success. He needs to build on that and either turn it into a regular paying gig (wedding bands earn a fortune), or encourage his creative side by helping him in the direction he wants to go in.

You want him to work as you don't want him to "do nothing". But you don't know what he's doing in this "nothing" time - he could be writing songs, or practicing his guitar (or whatever he plays), or making calls to try and get the gig sorted for the weekend. Maybe have a chat with him, ask him how he does it, how he works at his music - take an interest in that aspect of it.

Granted, his surly attitude isn't commendable and he should've grown out of it. There's no issue with him living at home at 21 (I didn't move out till I was 24), but he should contribute. Like I suggested earlier, he should give you a percentage of his gig earnings - tell him you'll be his manager!

I'm sorry but encouraging him to follow his dream of being a musician is very foolish. He has literally 0% chance of making a decent living out of it and will probably continue scrounging off the parents or social welfare into his 30s or 40s.

Is he too lazy for university or too academically challenged? If it is the former perhaps he'll grow out of it in a couple of years.

Wanderer2010

backbarrell wrote: »

My 21 year old dropped out of college 2 years ago. He picked the wrong course..it happens.
He picked a second course that he liked. It was closer to home. He dropped out at Christmas.
He had no idea what he wanted to do except vague ideas about playing music and enrolling in a music course.
I insisted that doing nothing was not an option and asked him to do basic office work in my business for which I would pay him. I needed staff so it was mutually beneficial.

He works about 10 hours a week, ( I have asked for 20), never turns up on time and has a general attitude problem when he is there.

Yesterday I asked him to turn up early today because we were busy in the shop and I could do with a hand. He laughed when I said it and turned up 7 hours late.Words were had and he has quit- he says.

I am getting grief from the Mrs for being hard on him but I feel that I am being treated like a doormat.
Am I wrong? What should I do?

Just out of curiosity what would you do to a normal employee who behaved like that?

BabySlam

There is a course in Cork which is highly regarded, and it is aimed at people in the music world. it is delivered at Colaiste Stiofan Naofa. Google it and show the details to your son and have a chat with him. If he lives with you only 2 nights a week I think you should hold back a bit re rent/bills.

Into The Blue

At 21 there was no way i was emotionally ready for the real world. Luckily my parents relied on their own parenting skills and we got through a hard time together.

Everyone's family dynamic is different. Coming on here telling a dad at his wits end what to do with a couple of paragraphs of info to go on is not the way forward




Op, talk to your wife. Maybe you are too hard on him. Shed know far better than randomers on here.

jobbridge4life

I wouldn't be so fast to advise 'kicking him out'. Definitely a change in managing this lad and his behaviour is required and a certain 'toughening' up but kicking someone out can sometimes backfire spectacularly. Before you go down that round you need to know what is going on in his life. Is he using drugs? Is he hanging out with bad influences who might be willing to fill his housing needs if you do put him out? IF you kick him out and he can support himself till he has the dole and whatever cash in hand he gets you might find you've lost him and his life may continue to waste away at increasing speed.

LegacyUser

Many thanks for all the replies, I am bowled over.
Too many questions to answer:
I won't be throwing him out. Home will always be home..
He plays in a cover band makes about €100 per weekend.
He thinks he is doing me a favour by coming to work. He just wants to come whenever he wants to and feels like it. I can't plan anything or depend on him.
I want to give him his P45.
Any other staff member that acted that way would be gone.
Herself is in silent mode...
He left his previous course and wanted to enrol in a music course. missed the deadline so didn't get in. Vague rumblings about becoming a mature student-irony.
No drugs, rarely drinks. definitely.
Might be depressed and in a rut..
Is an extremely intelligent lad...like 7 A s in junior cert and then just went on holiday work wise and never came back..


We all mature at different ages, I was a mature person at 21. had a lot of responsibility in a part time job. I accept that different people mature in different ways.

I have decided to let him go his own way and part of that is letting him go, hence the p45, hence the silent Mrs..
Something will either fall in his lap or a lightbulb will come on for him. Fair play if it does but I can't be dealing with the attitude..

A lot of sleepless nights but many thanks once again..

Irishcrx

I think he needs a bit of tough love here , he won't like it but may thank you in the long run.

Similar to him , when I was around 19 I picked the wrong college course and realised my mistake within a few month's , I was falling behind on my work and didn't have the interest in the course to get back into it.

I told my parents I didn't like the course and either wanted to change (They wanted me in college) or just go and work as it suited me better.

They said no hassle , however...on condition that I caught up with my work in college and stayed up to date until such a time that I found a good paying job , they laid out conditions of what that meant , ie I'm not quitting and working two days a week somewhere on minimum wage and handing up no rent.

So i done that , I got a decent job within a few weeks on I think 20k a year starting and handed up money fo rent and bills. Learned how the world worked and moved out on my own a year later.

I didn't like the options at first , but thanked them once I got on my feet for not letting me take the path of least resistance...

I never did go back to college, but still work in the same industry I started that little job in but 'climbed' the ladder and am at senior level now, college isn't for everyone but make sure if it isn't then work is.

Don't encourage the music school rubbish either , it's a waste of time and money I've friends that work in that industry it is no benefit to the students other than a few years of dossing with very little career prospects.

jobbridge4life

backbarrell wrote: »

No drugs, rarely drinks. definitely.
Might be depressed and in a rut..
Is an extremely intelligent lad...like 7 A s in junior cert and then just went on holiday work wise and never came back..

I'm curious as to how you can say with such assuredness that he there is no drugs involved? Especially given the next two sentences.

backbarrell

backbarrell wrote: »

I want to give him his P45.
Any other staff member that acted that way would be gone.
Herself is in silent mode...

I have decided to let him go his own way and part of that is letting him go, hence the p45, hence the silent Mrs..

Your wife is being unfair on him too. She is continuing to mollycoddle him.

I agree with the other poster who said that he can make a living in music, it's just not a living that you yourself can relate to so you may be assuming he's a bit of a bum.

Maybe he is, I don't know ... but let him prove he's not ... stop trying to "save him" by making him work in a job he clearly hates (which must gall you, it's your hard earned business but still ....) and your wife must stop treating him like a child.

I've read people advising this and I think it might be useful in this instance ... let your wife read this thread, ask her if there's anything unrealistic or untrue in it.

RentDayBlues

I moved out of home at 18 to attend college, I worked to support myself and that was it. No handouts, no relying on my parents to pay my way. It was very tough, but it made me an independent adult who worked very hard for everything I have in life.

I have 2 kids now and while I know that they are likely to live at home a lot longer than I did, I can guarantee you they will learn independence to some degree, they will be expected to work and/or attend college, they will be expected to grow up.

Your wife sounds like the typical Irish mammy, he's her son and can do no wrong, my mum was the same with my brothers. While I would never suggest kicking him out I think as a family you need to sit down and explain what is expected if he continues to live at home, at his age the relationship has changed and will move more towards housemates. If he was living out of home, he'd be expected to pay his way and have some mutual respect, living at home should be no different.

Jim79

the amount of mollycoddling of adult 'children' is at epidemic proportions in ireland.

Into The Blue

Lad is 21 not 41

veetwin

Jim79 wrote: »

the amount of mollycoddling of adult 'children' is at epidemic proportions in ireland.

Completely agree, it's beyond belief the way some adult "children" are given a free pass at everything.

"Lad is 21 not 41"

Yes and he has made many adult choices to be in the position he is now. At 21 I was living 200 miles from home (went away to college at 17) in a responsible and sometimes dangerous job and once I had left full time education never took a penny from my parents. A 21 yr old who has left education should really be paddling his own canoe at this stage and certainly should not be a burden on tax payers or especially his parents. This guy appears to be a burden on everyone.

Penny Tration

Op, if he plans to return to college as a mature student, that's at age 23. He can't just sit on his bum for two more years.

With regards to giving him a job - don't. He quit, so let him go find his own job. If he wants to survive solely on music, he needs to put more time into that. it's possible but very difficult to make a living from music.

He should be handing up money first off. He's getting a free ride with you and his girlfriend, that needs to stop.

Tell him to hand over money each week. if he doesn't, lock him out of his bedroom.

Curly Judge

He sounds to me like a young gentleman who has been overly shielded from the consequences of his actions.
Irish mothers can be particularly obstructive when it comes to showing their sons the difference between square and round.

maggiepip

Have patience with him OP, its now accepted the brain is still developing way into the mid twenties, or even longer, especially with boys. No one just becomes an adult overnight on reaching a particular set in stone age. He is, after all, managing to earn himself a few quid with his music, credit to him for that surely. Maybe he's a bit lost right now with his direction, but honestly, ultimatums and fighting and a super heavy handed approach will more than likely not work. He's let you down with the job, so fairs fair, fire him, but I'd try to be more understanding towards him until he figures things out.

Carlos Orange

Into The Blue wrote: »

Lad is 21 not 41

Lad is 21 not 12.

Into The Blue

psinno wrote: »

Lad is 21 not 12.

only 9 years gap.. not a lot.

Wanderer2010

Any other staff member would be gone?? So why are you letting your son away with it? I appreciate the situation is difficult OP but you are opening yourself right up to discrimination and claims of double standards from the other staff if you keep him there, I know I would be very angry to witness the boss's son getting away with murder you are being terribly unfair to the other workers.