2015 MVP Candidates

SameOleJay

eagle eye wrote: »

You see this is more of it. Name one WR who has left the Patriots after playing with Brady and done well after going to another team? You'll find it hard to come up with one because to the best of my knowledge it has never happened.
Thing is people see what Edelman does and think he is just an awesome receiver but a lot of it is down to Brady and his accuracy. Sure Edelman makes some great plays but I don't think he would be the same player playing on any other team.

Just look at what happened to Deion Branch when he left, look at Wes Welker.

If you go by the draft then Cam Newton has a much stronger set of receivers than Brady. Brady has two undrafted(Edelman, Amendola) and a second rounder(Gronk), third rounder(LaFell) as his primary receiving targets. And there have been injuries, notably LaFell for the first six games, and Edelman for the last five, as well as Gronk for one game.

Newton has Ginn(top ten pick), Funchess(second round), Cotchery(fourth round) and Olsen(first round) as his main receiving options.

I put it to you that Brady would make Newton's receivers play to the level that people expected when they were drafted.

So what happens when a high pick like Dobson busts? Is that Brady's fault?

Using draft position years after players enter the league as indicators of quality is a pretty loose logic. Surely the examples of Gronk versus Olsen is enough indicator of this?

Assuming they go 16 or 15 wins Cam is the MVP. Ginn was a legitimate laughing stock before the year started and rightly so. Olsen is very good but not in Gronk's stratosphere. Also, you can't ignore Cam's contribution in the run game which is massive.

nasty_crash

Absolutely agree - Ginn's Career was being laughed at over the last few seasons cos he did nothing and dropped everything - whos to say that he wont go back to that next season but if you put Edelman, Amendola & Ginn - asked to pick 1 - you wouldnt pick ginn!

Brady is having a year and is great - we know! But he is brady! Remember last year when everyone was saying that Cam couldnt throw that he was overthrowing and very inaccurate - His play, decision making, running and his throwing has been exceptional this year and a massive improvement on who he was last year! Kelvin Benjamin helped cam last year cos of his height - i think cam is the most improved qb and mvp of the year! I think Russell Wilson has improved greatly over the last 4 weeks now that seahawks are playing a passing game - didnt think he had it in him tbh!

P.S. Im a packers fan - so i hate Seahawks, Pats & Panthers equally!

sportstar583

Cam is going to win MVP for sure. Antonio Brown and Tom Brady are probably going to be 2 and 3. Big ben would have a shot if he was healthy all year but he wasn't.

Billy86

eagle eye wrote: »

You see this is more of it. Name one WR who has left the Patriots after playing with Brady and done well after going to another team? You'll find it hard to come up with one because to the best of my knowledge it has never happened.
Thing is people see what Edelman does and think he is just an awesome receiver but a lot of it is down to Brady and his accuracy. Sure Edelman makes some great plays but I don't think he would be the same player playing on any other team.

Just look at what happened to Deion Branch when he left, look at Wes Welker.

If you go by the draft then Cam Newton has a much stronger set of receivers than Brady. Brady has two undrafted(Edelman, Amendola) and a second rounder(Gronk), third rounder(LaFell) as his primary receiving targets. And there have been injuries, notably LaFell for the first six games, and Edelman for the last five, as well as Gronk for one game.

Newton has Ginn(top ten pick), Funchess(second round), Cotchery(fourth round) and Olsen(first round) as his main receiving options.

I put it to you that Brady would make Newton's receivers play to the level that people expected when they were drafted.

I put it to you that that is incorrect. Peyton Bradgers-Youngtana would not get Ginn, and probably not Funchess either, to 'the next level' - e.g. that expected of a top 10 WR. They are simply not very good players.

Olsen is a fine TE of course, but let's not forget that it was only when he moved to Carolina and started playing with Newton that he moved to 'the next level', otherwise the Bears would not have let him go for a 3rd rounder only 4 years after spending a 1st on him, especially given that they were looking to move to a more pass-heavy system at the time. Implying that Brady would have him playing at a higher level than probably the best TE of all time* is a disingenuous reach, to be kind.

*Talking peak performance, in terms of overall career he'll need to stay healthy for a while longer to get past Tony Gonzalez.

Billy86

D9Male wrote: »

Actually.....for what it is worth, here are the rankings of NE and Carolina Wide Receivers according to Football Outsiders:

#22 Amendola 166 DYAR
#25 Edelman 162 DYAR
#70 LaFell -60 DYAR

#46 Ginn 64 DYAR

And Gronkowski is miles clear of Olsen among tight ends....so the advanced stats do suggest that Brady has better targets.

I'm just amazed that people are even attempting to make that argument. I'm not saying Brady has been playing with the 1999 Rams or anything even close to it, but after Benjamin's injury there was a lot of talk about the Panthers bombing because until this year Cam had a habit of 'missing high' (e.g. throwing too high for the WR to catch, which can be very dangerous if there are DBs behind) and the Panthers having arguably the worst WR corps in the entire league.

Despite this, as someone brought up completion percentage earlier, Newton has the same YPA as Brady, which I would consider a much more meaningful stat (Kirk Cousins is the most accurate QB in the entire league this year).

bruschi wrote: »

deluded Pats fans, and there are plenty of them. Lewis was doing well, but pro bowl? Dont think so. Again, that's not to disparage him or anything, but we have to be realistic here. Pro bowl players should be players who stand out above all else at that position and be absolutely outstanding for their team.

I'm not sure what your point was when you consider him pro bowl and I reckon he is a good bit off it in this seasons WR figures (discounting injury). He is a massive loss to the team, but he is a player that works in that sort of system Brady plays and works well. Ginn is having a great year. Do I think he would sustain it over a career? No, but credit him on a fine season.

Ginn's not actually been very good this year though, that's the thing. He's not been bad either, but he still has the tied fourth most drops in the entire league, and the highest drop percentage of any WR with over 30 catches.

j8wk2feszrnpao

I think the league will want it to go to Cam. There's not much separating the top candidates, so it's not going to be controversial who ever wins.