All Stations To Bray on the DART?

Biffo The Bare

More often than not the drivers skip the final few stations to Bray (Killiney, Shankhill) in the mornings. And if the PA system on the train is not functioning, the commuters don't hear the announcement that the stations are being skipped. So whatever feeder busses customers depend on in Killiney and Shankhill are missed.
This is an unacceptable situation.
I heard a few commuters giving out stink to a driver this morning for doing this in Bray. I didn't add to it because I think they made their point adequately.
The excuse is always "I announced it in Dun Laoghaire" or some derivation of that. But if the PA is not working, what good is that?
And If they have to get the next train, they have probably missed their feeder bus anyway.
Is there a better way of sorting out this issue than giving out stink to the driver?

LXFlyer

Biffo The Bare wrote: »

More often than not the drivers skip the final few stations to Bray (Killiney, Shankhill) in the mornings. And if the PA system on the train is not functioning, the commuters don't hear the announcement that the stations are being skipped. So whatever feeder busses customers depend on in Killiney and Shankhill are missed.
This is an unacceptable situation.
I heard a few commuters giving out stink to a driver this morning for doing this in Bray. I didn't add to it because I think they made their point adequately.
The excuse is always "I announced it in Dun Laoghaire" or some derivation of that. But if the PA is not working, what good is that?
And If they have to get the next train, they have probably missed their feeder bus anyway.
Is there a better way of sorting out this issue than giving out stink to the driver?

"More often than not"? I suspect that is an exaggeration.

There are the five diesel services from Dundalk, Drogheda, or Maynooth to Bray that don't stop between Dun Laoghaire and Bray (08:00, 08:15, 08:37, 08:41 and 09:00 from Connolly). Perhaps you're getting mixed up with those services?

Also, there are no feeder buses in either Killiney or Shankill.

Biffo The Bare

lxflyer wrote: »

"More often than not"? I suspect that is an exaggeration.

There are the five diesel services from Dundalk, Drogheda, or Maynooth to Bray that don't stop between Dun Laoghaire and Bray (08:00, 08:15, 08:37, 08:41 and 09:00 from Connolly). Perhaps you're getting mixed up with those services?

Also, there are no feeder buses in either Killiney or Shankill.

Wrong and wrong and wrong. :rolleyes:

These are normal electrical powered dart services that announce "All stations to Bray" at the start of the journey.
And There are private commuter busses from Shankhill and Killiney going to various places including Cherrywood.
Reason I know is I use them sometimes to get to Cherrywood.

Captain Chaos

Some north bound DART services in the evenings do this sometimes if they are running late to get back into their slot.

The PA will say all stations to Howth or Malahide then the driver will say it's a non stop DART service from Connolly to Howth Junction and then all stations.

GM228

Biffo The Bare wrote: »

More often than not the drivers skip the final few stations to Bray (Killiney, Shankhill) in the mornings. And if the PA system on the train is not functioning, the commuters don't hear the announcement that the stations are being skipped. So whatever feeder busses customers depend on in Killiney and Shankhill are missed.
This is an unacceptable situation.
I heard a few commuters giving out stink to a driver this morning for doing this in Bray. I didn't add to it because I think they made their point adequately.
The excuse is always "I announced it in Dun Laoghaire" or some derivation of that. But if the PA is not working, what good is that?
And If they have to get the next train, they have probably missed their feeder bus anyway.
Is there a better way of sorting out this issue than giving out stink to the driver?

It's extremely rare for this to happen although it has been known to happen when things go wrong such as delayed trains, failures etc.

To say more often than not is nonsense.

GM228

10000maniacs

Captain Chaos wrote: »

Some north bound DART services in the evenings do this sometimes if they are running late to get back into their slot.

The PA will say all stations to Howth or Malahide then the driver will say it's a non stop DART service from Connolly to Howth Junction and then all stations.

What if the Public announcement system is switched off on the train? Obviously this is one of the issues the OP raised.
Anyway "All Stations To Bray" should mean "All Stations To Bray".
This is far too common an occurrence for my liking.
There are situations where there is over 90 minutes between trains stopping in Shankill because
1: Diesel trains are getting more common even on the peak times and these don't stop at Shankill.
2: They decide mid journey frequently to skip Shankill on "All Stations To Bray" darts.

LXFlyer

Biffo The Bare wrote: »

Wrong and wrong and wrong. :rolleyes:

These are normal electrical powered dart services that announce "All stations to Bray" at the start of the journey.
And There are private commuter busses from Shankhill and Killiney going to various places including Cherrywood.
Reason I know is I use them sometimes to get to Cherrywood.

Are you seriously suggesting that this happens on a daily basis? I don't think so.

It certainly is not "more often than not".

That's a private bus service - not a "feeder bus".

Captain Chaos

10000maniacs wrote: »

What if the Public announcement system is switched off on the train? Obviously this is one of the issues the OP raised.
Anyway "All Stations To Bray" should mean "All Stations To Bray".
This is far too common an occurrence for my liking.
There are situations where there is over 90 minutes between trains stopping in Shankill because
1: Diesel trains are getting more common even on the peak times and these don't stop at Shankill.
2: They decide mid journey frequently to skip Shankill on "All Stations To Bray" darts.

The driver makes the announcement over the speaker system when that happens, that is always active even if the PA system is gone wonky.

GM228

Captain Chaos wrote: »

The driver makes the announcement over the speaker system when that happens, that is always active even if the PA system is gone wonky.

The problem is far too often people are too caught up reading books, listening to iPods etc to notice the PA announcements.

I've seen it many times all over the world were announcements are made but not noticed and those who don't notice are convinced there were no announcements made.

GM228

LXFlyer

10000maniacs wrote: »

What if the Public announcement system is switched off on the train? Obviously this is one of the issues the OP raised.
Anyway "All Stations To Bray" should mean "All Stations To Bray".
This is far too common an occurrence for my liking.
There are situations where there is over 90 minutes between trains stopping in Shankill because
1: Diesel trains are getting more common even on the peak times and these don't stop at Shankill.
2: They decide mid journey frequently to skip Shankill on "All Stations To Bray" darts.

Hang on - there is never a time where there is a 90 minute gap in trains serving Shankill, given that the DART operates at a minimum frequency of every 15 minutes.

There are exactly the same number of diesels operating to Bray now as there were 10 years ago, so let's not get carried away with this (1 from Maynooth and 4 from the Northern line). There is still a 15 minute DART service around those trains.

This should only happen where something has gone significantly wrong with the service so that sets and drivers are in the wrong position due to ongoing delays. In that circumstance, this course of action is usually the only option (or go out of service altogether).

GM228

lxflyer wrote: »

Are you seriously suggesting that this happens on a daily basis? I don't think so.

That's a private bus service - not a "feeder bus".

It happens, but is RARE, not a common occurrence as some are suggesting.

GM228

carrolls

Captain Chaos wrote: »

The driver makes the announcement over the speaker system when that happens, that is always active even if the PA system is gone wonky.

This scenario has happened to me many times. And the speaker system was off in all scenarios.
Unacceptable conduct.
Which part of "All Stations To Bray" are they/you having trouble with?
The decision to bypass Shankill should have been made before the customer boards. And the event listed in the Dart timetable at the station. This is how commuters should be treated. basic stuff.

Not rocket science.

GM228

carrolls wrote: »

This scenario has happened to me many times. And the speaker system was off in all scenarios.
Unacceptable conduct.
Which part of "All Stations To Bray" are they/you having trouble with?
The decision to bypass Shankill should have been made before the customer boards. And the event listed in the Dart timetable at the station.
Not rocket science.

The problem is that sometimes issues arise when the train is already in service which requires it to happen!

GM228

LXFlyer

carrolls wrote: »

This scenario has happened to me many times. And the speaker system was off in all scenarios.
Unacceptable conduct.
Which part of "All Stations To Bray" are they/you having trouble with?
The decision to bypass Shankill should have been made before the customer boards. And the event listed in the Dart timetable at the station. This is how commuters should be treated. basic stuff.

Not rocket science.

As posted above this only happens if services are operating with significant delays and in order to get the schedule back on time the controllers will make a decision mid-journey to alter the service pattern. Otherwise the trains would not be on schedule for the rest of the day.


The same happens when there is disruption to Dublin Bus - sometimes that is the only way that they can get the service back on track.

GM228

lxflyer wrote: »

There are exactly the same number of diesels operating to Bray now as there were 10 years ago, so let's not get carried away with this (1 from Maynooth and 4 from the Northern line). There is still a 15 minute DART service around those trains.

There is actually less diesels now than a few years ago as some ECS moves were eliminated.

GM228

carrolls

lxflyer wrote: »

As posted above this only happens if services are operating with significant delays and in order to get the schedule back on time the controllers will make a decision mid-journey to alter the service pattern.


The same happens when there is disruption to Dublin Bus - sometimes that is the only way that they can get the service back on track.

Not good enough. "All Stations To Bray" should mean "All Stations To Bray".
Singling out stations to bypass is unfair on commuters, especially if there are issues with the microphone system.

LXFlyer

GM228 wrote: »

There is actually less diesels now than a few years ago as some ECS moves were eliminated.

GM228

There are exactly the same number of in-service trains, which I was referring to, and I actually listed them out.

The ECS moves are no consequence to anyone using the service as they can't be used! Why would I refer to them in the context of this discussion?

LXFlyer

carrolls wrote: »

Not good enough. "All Stations To Bray" should mean "All Stations To Bray".
Singling out stations to bypass is unfair on commuters, especially if there are issues with the microphone system.

Unfortunately there is no transport operator in the world that doesn't have to make decisions like that from time to time.

It's a fact of life when delays happen.

The only other option is to curtail the service short (at Dun Laoghaire for example) or go out of service altogether.

It's far from ideal, but there is not much else that can be done in those circumstances.

cython

lxflyer wrote: »

There are exactly the same number of in-service trains, which I was referring to, and I actually listed them out.

The ECS moves are no consequence to anyone using the service as they can't be used! Why would I refer to them in the context of this discussion?

It's potentially worth mentioning as presumably ECS moves could be thought of as taking throughput from the line capacity (for trains as opposed to directly from passenger numbers), and so this is now less of an issue than previously. Since the bypassing services basically can't be used by anyone looking to get on/off at that station, the ECS moves are really pretty much the same as the non-stopping services from their perspective in any case.

LXFlyer

cython wrote: »

It's potentially worth mentioning as presumably ECS moves could be thought of as taking throughput from the line capacity (for trains as opposed to directly from passenger numbers), and so this is now less of an issue than previously. Since the bypassing services basically can't be used by anyone looking to get on/off at that station, the ECS moves are really pretty much the same as the non-stopping services from their perspective in any case.

They're irrelevant at that time of day - they go/went to Connolly after the morning peak and from Connolly in the afternoon.


Given that the people are referring to southbound DARTs in the morning I'm not sure how they would come into the equation, hence my comment.

Captain Chaos

GM228 wrote: »

The problem is far too often people are too caught up reading books, listening to iPods etc to notice the PA announcements.

I've seen it many times all over the world were announcements are made but not noticed and those who don't notice are convinced there were no announcements made.

GM228

That's a first world problem really. I see it happen every day on the Luas, the tram clearly tells you on the PA if it's going to Connolly or The Point yet people are too busy yapping away, next you hear them frantically asking everyone, "where is this tram going". If they were paying any sort of attention they would know if they are really that worried about it.

People don't read sign in general never mind actually listen to whats going on around them. I can see how pick pockets do so well on public transport.

10000maniacs

Captain Chaos wrote: »

That's a first world problem really. I see it happen every day on the Luas, the tram clearly tells you on the PA if it's going to Connolly or The Point yet people are too busy yapping away, next you hear them frantically asking everyone, "where is this tram going". If they were paying any sort of attention they would know if they are really that worried about it.

People don't read sign in general never mind actually listen to whats going on around them. I can see how pick pockets do so well on public transport.

Any time I have been caught in that situation, i.e. ending up in Bray after Shankill was bypassed, it was always either because the speaker announcement system was off or the driver failed to announce the bypass.
You can use hyperbole and start calling us commuters liars all you want.
But it is a ridiculous situation to eliminate stations from a route without properly announcing it. Even if it is actually announced it is still ridiculous. Because maybe the next train is too late.

GM228

lxflyer wrote: »

They're irrelevant at that time of day - they go/went to Connolly after the morning peak and from Connolly in the afternoon.


Given that the people are referring to southbound DARTs in the morning I'm not sure how they would come into the equation, hence my comment.

I referenced the ECS moves as another poster stated generally that more diesels were out there including peak (not just peak). Just pointing out that there are less diesels altogether that could get in the way!

Also trains going in the opposite direction can have an impact on trains going southbound at times of disruption for various reasons, at times of disruption any train weather empty or passenger will impact on service recovery so any train in any direction is relevant to the discussion as these things only happen when things go wrong!

GM228

GM228

10000maniacs wrote: »

Any time I have been caught in that situation, i.e. ending up in Bray after Shankill was bypassed, it was always either because the speaker announcement system was off or the driver failed to announce the bypass.
You can use hyperbole and start calling us commuters liars all you want.
But it is a ridiculous situation to eliminate stations from a route without properly announcing it. Even if it is actually announced it is still ridiculous. Because maybe the next train is too late.

So can I ask how many times your DART has bypassed stations as you imply it happens often, and I doubt very much the PA is always broken or a driver won't announce it!

I have never been on a bus, train or tram where when stops/routes change that an announcement hasn't been made or at least attempted, sometimes yes the PA is muddled but at least an attempt is made.

GM228

Wild Garlic

Biffo The Bare wrote: »

More often than not the drivers skip the final few stations to Bray (Killiney, Shankhill) in the mornings. And if the PA system on the train is not functioning, the commuters don't hear the announcement that the stations are being skipped. So whatever feeder busses customers depend on in Killiney and Shankhill are missed.
This is an unacceptable situation.
I heard a few commuters giving out stink to a driver this morning for doing this in Bray. I didn't add to it because I think they made their point adequately.
The excuse is always "I announced it in Dun Laoghaire" or some derivation of that. But if the PA is not working, what good is that?
And If they have to get the next train, they have probably missed their feeder bus anyway.
Is there a better way of sorting out this issue than giving out stink to the driver?

What service did that happen on this morning?

Biffo The Bare

Wild Garlic wrote: »

What service did that happen on this morning?

The 9:30 to Shankill.. Or not to Shankill:rolleyes:

Wild Garlic

Biffo The Bare wrote: »

The 9:30 to Shankill.. Or not to Shankill:rolleyes:

From?

cython

lxflyer wrote: »

They're irrelevant at that time of day - they go/went to Connolly after the morning peak and from Connolly in the afternoon.


Given that the people are referring to southbound DARTs in the morning I'm not sure how they would come into the equation, hence my comment.

Well surely you should lead with that fact then, as their operating outside of peak hours is surely more of factor in their irrelevance than their not being usable?! Honestly, the amount of posters on here sometimes putting the main emphasis on the less relevant details is astonishing

LXFlyer

cython wrote: »

Well surely you should lead with that fact then, as their operating outside of peak hours is surely more of factor in their irrelevance than their not being usable?! Honestly, the amount of posters on here sometimes putting the main emphasis on the less relevant details is astonishing

Well I am pretty sure that the person to whom I replied about them would have known that, given their knowledge!

I didn't bring them up in the first place, but was replying to a post that did.

GM228

lxflyer wrote: »

They're irrelevant at that time of day - they go/went to Connolly after the morning peak and from Connolly in the afternoon.


Given that the people are referring to southbound DARTs in the morning I'm not sure how they would come into the equation, hence my comment.

As I stated ECS trains do bear relevence to the discussion when the reason for such occurrences happens when things go wrong and an ECS can have a bearing on service recovery. Just becauae a train us running in the opposite direction or empty doesn't mean it has no bearing on the situation being discussed.

The OP did indeed state the morning but did not mention if it was peak or not and as it turns the cancled ECS ran slightly before the OPs train-and the ECS which still runs by the way also runs at a similar time.

GM228

devnull

Issues with the information systems on the 29000's and the 85xx Darts have been chronic ever since they were put into service, they very rarely work correctly and increasingly are always turned off and the displays are working even less often.*

The only trains that have a proper, reliable functioning passenger information system on the whole network are the 81xx class which work no problems asked. If only Irish Rail got Siemens to fit the same system to the other trains we'd all be better off.

* I strongly suspect there is more than one PIS system on the 85xx class because it's not uncommon for the announcements, exterior and interior displays all to be saying different things to each other

carrolls

GM228 wrote: »

So can I ask how many times your DART has bypassed stations as you imply it happens often, and I doubt very much the PA is always broken or a driver won't announce it!

I have never been on a bus, train or tram where when stops/routes change that an announcement hasn't been made or at least attempted, sometimes yes the PA is muddled but at least an attempt is made.

GM228

Call people liars if you want. When Biffo says there was no announcement, I believe him.
Regardless of whether it was announced or not, skipping stations is disallowed in the passengers charter, unless engineering works are being carried out at the bypassed station. And even then it has to be pre-announced.

Delays outside our control
We cannot accept claims for delays that are outside our control. These include those caused by:
•pre-advertised timetable alterations due to engineering works;
•security alerts;
•industrial action taken without notice;
•extreme weather conditions;
•vandalism; or
•other activities carried out by people who do not work for us.

Wild Garlic

carrolls wrote: »

Call people liars if you want. When Biffo says there was no announcement, I believe him.
Regardless of whether it was announced or not, skipping stations is disallowed in the passengers charter, unless engineering works are being carried out at the bypassed station. And even then it has to be pre-announced.

Delays outside our control
We cannot accept claims for delays that are outside our control. These include those caused by:
•pre-advertised timetable alterations due to engineering works;
•security alerts;
•industrial action taken without notice;
•extreme weather conditions;
•vandalism; or
•other activities carried out by people who do not work for us.

Well if he/she answered my question we wouldn't be long finding out if lies are been told or not.

devnull

carrolls wrote: »

Call people liars if you want. When Biffo says there was no announcement, I believe him.
Regardless of whether it was announced or not, skipping stations is disallowed in the passengers charter, unless engineering works are being carried out at the bypassed station. And even then it has to be pre-announced.

Delays outside our control
We cannot accept claims for delays that are outside our control. These include those caused by:
•pre-advertised timetable alterations due to engineering works;
•security alerts;
•industrial action taken without notice;
•extreme weather conditions;
•vandalism; or
•other activities carried out by people who do not work for us.

I have been on trains where it has happened, it's very rare but it does happened.

And just because something is in the passenger charter doesn't mean it hasn't happened, I'm not saying it has or hasn't in this case, but the passenger charter means things that should happen, it doesn't mean that things that are in it have never happened in history.

GM228

carrolls wrote: »

Call people liars if you want. When Biffo says there was no announcement, I believe him.
Regardless of whether it was announced or not, skipping stations is disallowed in the passengers charter, unless engineering works are being carried out at the bypassed station. And even then it has to be pre-announced.

Delays outside our control
We cannot accept claims for delays that are outside our control. These include those caused by:
•pre-advertised timetable alterations due to engineering works;
•security alerts;
•industrial action taken without notice;
•extreme weather conditions;
•vandalism; or
•other activities carried out by people who do not work for us.

First off all not once did I call anyone a liar so please don't suggest I have!

Secondly you are mis-quoting the charter, the section you reference is to do with compensation payments and has nothing to do with what can or cannot be done, it simply states when you can't look for compensation.

Under the performance charter 98% of trains should run as planned, those that do bypass stations are less than 1% of trains.


GM228

carrolls

GM228 wrote: »

First off all not once did I call anyone a liar so please don't suggest I have!

Secondly you are mis-quoting the charter, the section you reference is to do with compensation payments and has nothing to do with what can or cannot be done, it simply states when you can't look for compensation.

Under the performance charter 98% of trains should run as planned, those that do bypass stations are less than 1% of trains.


GM228

You expressed doubt that the PA is ever broken or that there ever a possibility that the driver will forget or fail to announce that he is bypassing some stations, which implies you are suggesting that there is a good possibility that Biffo was lying when he/she said that the PA was off on his journey.

Anyway....
The following information covers passenger’s rights under the Regulation’s provisions, some of which are mandatory and cannot be subject to an exemption.

Travel information

If this non-mandatory provision applies, you are to be provided with pre-journey information, such as:
•The general conditions applicable to the contract
•The timetables and the conditions for the fastest trip and for the lowest fares
•Information on any activities that likely to disrupt or delay services
•The availability of on-board services
•The procedures for reclaiming lost luggage and for the submission of complaints

As well as being provided with information before a journey, you must also be provided during the journey with information concerning such matters as on-board services, the next station, delays, the main connecting services, security and safety.

GM228

carrolls wrote: »

You expressed doubt that the PA is ever broken or that there ever a possibility that the driver will forget or fail to announce that he is bypassing some stations, which implies you are suggesting that there is a good possibility that Biffo was lying when he/she said that the PA was off on his journey.

Anyway....
The following information covers passenger’s rights under the Regulation’s provisions, some of which are mandatory and cannot be subject to an exemption.

Travel information

If this non-mandatory provision applies, you are to be provided with pre-journey information, such as:
•The general conditions applicable to the contract
•The timetables and the conditions for the fastest trip and for the lowest fares
•Information on any activities that likely to disrupt or delay services
•The availability of on-board services
•The procedures for reclaiming lost luggage and for the submission of complaints

As well as being provided with information before a journey, you must also be provided during the journey with information concerning such matters as on-board services, the next station, delays, the main connecting services, security and safety.

No I said i find it hard to believe a PA is ALWAYS off, and yes I find it hardto believe anyone wouldn't bother making an announcement, but that is not makin anyone out to be a liar!

Announcing service adjustments before travel only applies if the changes are actually known before hand which isn't always the case!

GM228

carrolls

GM228 wrote: »

No I said i find it hard to believe a PA is ALWAYS off, and yes I find it hardto believe anyone wouldn't bother making an announcement, but that is not makin anyone out to be a liar!

Announcing service adjustments before travel only applies if the changes are actually known before hand which isn't always the case!

GM228

So it is hard for you to believe Biffo is not a liar?
Give me a break.
I find skipping stations without adequate notice or information is truly a pathetic way to run an organisation.
Can you not see that?
There seems to be some mad Iarnrod Eireann company/employees agenda on this forum.

GM228

carrolls wrote: »

So it is hard for you to believe Biffo is not a liar?
Give me a break.
I find skipping stations without adequate notice or information is truly a pathetic way to run an organisation.
Can you not see that?
There seems to be some mad Iarnrod Eireann company/employees agenda on this forum.

A liar about what exacrly? Never did I suggest anyone was a liar, I did not state that Biffo's train did or didn't miss a station. I did not state that the PA was off or broken. What I said was a PA isn't ALWAYS off or that a driver dosn't make an announcement is unlikely. Why would they do that? Biffo actually said "the commuters don't hear the announcement", that dosn't suggest a PA is off or an announcement isn't made. The reference to the PAs been off all the time was actually made by yourself and and 10000maniacs so why Biffo got drawn into it I don't know.

The one thing Biffo is incorrect about though is saying it happens more often than not which simply isn't the case.

I have been on many trains/buses/trams that announcements are always made.

It's a fact that all modes of transport all over the world have to make similar alterations to service often at the last minute and quoting charters or EU regulations does not add to the discussion if they are miss-quoted.

GM228

carrolls

GM228 wrote: »

A liar about what exacrly? Never did I suggest anyone was a liar, I did not state that Biffo's train did or didn't miss a station. I did not state that the PA was off or broken. What I said was a PA isn't ALWAYS off or that a driver dosn't make an announcement is unlikely. Why would they do that? Biffo actually said "the commuters don't hear the announcement", that dosn't suggest a PA is off or an announcement isn't made. The reference to the PAs been off all the time was actually made by yourself and and 10000maniacs so why Biffo got drawn into it I don't know.

The one thing Biffo is incorrect about though is saying it happens more often than not which simply isn't the case.

I have been on many trains/buses/trams that announcements are always made.

It's a fact that all modes of transport all over the world have to make similar alterations to service often at the last minute and quoting charters or EU regulations does not add to the discussion if they are miss-quoted.

GM228

Wrong again. What I said was that the scenario of stations being bypassed happened to me on a lot of occasions, and in every case, the announcement was never made. So you really need to get your facts right.
Maybe the driver attempted to make an announcement, or maybe he didn't. Who knows?
The drivers to me seem to be playing the game of averages. By bypassing Shankill and Killiney they know there is not a lot of people left on the train. So they are probably taking the chance that if say 10 people are inconvenienced by their actions, how many of those are going to pluck up the courage to confront the driver or station manager in Bray. Probably not many.
And the complaints website in Iarnrod Eireann may as well be not there for all the good it does.

GM228

carrolls wrote: »

Wrong again. What I said was that the scenario of stations being bypassed happened to me on a lot of occasions, and in every case, the announcement was never made. So you really need to get your facts right.
Maybe the driver attempted to make an announcement, or maybe he didn't. Who knows?
The drivers to me seem to be playing the game of averages. By bypassing Shankill and Killiney they know there is not a lot of people left on the train. So they are probably taking the chance that if say 10 people are inconvenienced by their actions, how many of those are going to pluck up the courage to confront the driver or station manager in Bray. Probably not many.
And the complaints website in Iarnrod Eireann may as well be not there for all the good it does.

Obviously it's about stations been missed as that is the discussion at hand, but you stated that in every scenario the PA was OFF, not that an announcement wasn't made-my facts are right.

carrolls wrote: »

This scenario has happened to me many times. And the speaker system was off in all scenarios.
Unacceptable conduct.
Which part of "All Stations To Bray" are they/you having trouble with?
The decision to bypass Shankill should have been made before the customer boards. And the event listed in the Dart timetable at the station. This is how commuters should be treated. basic stuff.

Not rocket science.

Still trying to figure out how I called anyone a liar?

Anyways now you seem to suggest the drivers just decide not to stop and take the chance! What next?

GM228

carrolls

GM228 wrote: »

Obviously it's about stations been missed as that is the discussion at hand, but you stated that in every scenario the PA was OFF, not that an announcement wasn't made-my facts are right.



Still trying to figure out how I called anyone a liar?

Anyways now you seem to suggest the drivers just decide not to stop and take the chance! What next?

GM228

Just because the scenario happened to me many times, and every time it happened that the speaker was off, so no announcement was make, how do you derive from that that I said "the PA's are off all the time?"

devnull

GM228 wrote: »

No I said i find it hard to believe a PA is ALWAYS off, and yes I find it hardto believe anyone wouldn't bother making an announcement, but that is not makin anyone out to be a liar!

If you really believe that automated announcements work correctly and if they don't the driver corrects them, or if they don't work like they haven't on some sets for longer than I can remember a driver will make manual announcements, to replace them, quite frankly you can't get the DART very often.

Problems with the information systems on the 85xx class are rifle,

GM228

carrolls wrote: »

Just because the scenario happened to me many times, and every time it happened that the speaker was off, so no announcement was make, how do you derive from that that I said "the PA's are off all the time?"

This discussion Is about when trains bypass stations, that is what we have been discussing regarding the PA to which you stated they have always been off, I did say I find it hard to believe they are off all the time in these situations.

GM228

GM228

devnull wrote: »

If you really believe that automated announcements work correctly and if they don't the driver corrects them, or if they don't work like they haven't on some sets for longer than I can remember a driver will make manual announcements, to replace them, quite frankly you can't get the DART very often.

Problems with the information systems on the 85xx class are rifle,

I'm on DARTs Mon-Fri (and the Maynooth trains), but we arn't talking bout auto announcements or general station announcements, but rather about a driver making an announcement during disruption which I've generally found is the case.

GM228

goingnowhere

carrolls wrote: »

Call people liars if you want. When Biffo says there was no announcement, I believe him.
Regardless of whether it was announced or not, skipping stations is disallowed in the passengers charter, unless engineering works are being carried out at the bypassed station. And even then it has to be pre-announced.

Delays outside our control
We cannot accept claims for delays that are outside our control. These include those caused by:
•pre-advertised timetable alterations due to engineering works;
•security alerts;
•industrial action taken without notice;
•extreme weather conditions;
•vandalism; or
•other activities carried out by people who do not work for us.

EU courts have ruled that act of god cannot be used as an excuse, no mater the reason you are entitled to the rights in EC1371/2007. Onlyif you were informed before purchase of a ticket can they use the above to exclude any claim or complaint you make

carrolls

goingnowhere wrote: »

EU courts have ruled that act of god cannot be used as an excuse, no mater the reason you are entitled to the rights in EC1371/2007. Onlyif you were informed before purchase of a ticket can they use the above to exclude any claim or complaint you make

So basically they are breaking the law by bypassing dart stations ad hoc.
Good to know.
It is so obvious that this is wrong. The driver acting as God denying people access to their designated station.

GM228

goingnowhere wrote: »

EU courts have ruled that act of god cannot be used as an excuse, no mater the reason you are entitled to the rights in EC1371/2007. Onlyif you were informed before purchase of a ticket can they use the above to exclude any claim or complaint you make

That is incorrect, under Article 8 of EC1371/2007 the Conditions of Travel determine what "excuse" can be used. If "acts outside our control" is not already in the conditions then it can't be used, but unfortunately it is in both thr Conditions of Carriage and the Passenger Charter so it does not apply to IE.

GM228

GM228

carrolls wrote: »

So basically they are breaking the law by bypassing dart stations ad hoc.
Good to know.
It is so obvious that this is wrong. The driver acting as God denying people access to their designated station.

IE actually have every right to skip stops/amend timetables without notice and they are covered to do this under EC1371/2007 and their CoC.

Not ideal, but it's a fact.

GM228

carrolls

GM228 wrote: »

IE actually have every right to skip stops/amend timetables without notice and they are covered to do this under EC1371/2007 and there CoC.

Not ideal, but it's a fact.

GM228

Not ideal? It's beyond ridiculous. And the sooner there is a law enacted to stop this cowboy carry on, the better for everyone who depends on public transport.

goingnowhere

http://curia.europa.eu/juris/document/document.jsf?text=&docid=135004&pageIndex=0&doclang=EN&mode=req&dir=&occ=first&part=1&cid=672652

Article 17 of Regulation No 1371/2007 is to be interpreted as meaning that a railway undertaking may not exclude its obligation under that provision to pay compensation of the ticket price in cases of force majeure.