Extension - certificate costs

chabsey · 21-10-2015 12:01pm #1

We live in Dublin and have recently had a sub 40 m2 extension built to the rear of our house. We have just got a quote from an engineer for the various certs required.
These certs are:

Certificate of Exemption from Planning Permission for extension to rear of dwelling house;

Certificate of Compliance with Building Regulations for same

Certificate of Identity for rear extension.

We've been quoted ~900 euro (incl. VAT) for these certs and this seems high to me, but maybe it isn't. Does anyone with some experience in these matters know if I'm being ripped off or are these charges about right?

sydthebeat · 21-10-2015 12:45pm

just get at least 3 quotes and compare

chabsey · 21-10-2015 12:48pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

just get at least 3 quotes and compare

Am thinking of doing that....one thing though, the extension is built now - are any of those certs particularly associated with having visited during the construction phase? Meaning, would a decent engineer sign off on those three certs without having seen the building process of the extension?

sydthebeat · 21-10-2015 12:52pm

chabsey wrote: »

Am thinking of doing that....one thing though, the extension is built now - are any of those certs particularly associated with having visited during the construction phase? Meaning, would a decent engineer sign off on those three certs without having seen the building process of the extension?

YOU didnt engage an engineer during construction, therefore you will have to make do with the watered down 'visual inspection only' type cert which is accepted by the law society.

its no reflection at all on the engineer to write a watered down cert.

it basically will be worthless for you, but you require them.

edit: the cert of identity is always done post completion anyway

chabsey · 21-10-2015 2:25pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

YOU didnt engage an engineer during construction, therefore you will have to make do with the watered down 'visual inspection only' type cert which is accepted by the law society.

its no reflection at all on the engineer to write a watered down cert.

it basically will be worthless for you, but you require them.

edit: the cert of identity is always done post completion anyway

Bit of a forceful assumption there, while technically you're correct, I personally did not engage the engineer during construction, our builder did that for us. So he (the guy who quoted us) was there during construction.

Which brings me back to the original question, is this a bad quote for the listed certs? From your previous answer about some of the reports being worthless when done after the fact I have to presume that I'm then stuck with this one guy's quote. I don't want to be ripped off but maybe this figure is not out of the norm for this work? It seems high to me, but I don't know so that's what I asked.

sydthebeat · 21-10-2015 2:42pm

if the engineer DID visit during the construction, why did you ask

Meaning, would a decent engineer sign off on those three certs without having seen the building process of the extension?

im sorry for my "forceful assumption", but you seem to be just drip feeding information and contradicting what youve previously said.

so which is it... did he see the construction or not? because that determines what kind of cert he can supply and obviously if hes visited the site during construction that affects what he will quote

chabsey · 21-10-2015 3:17pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

if the engineer DID visit during the construction, why did you ask

im sorry for my "forceful assumption", but you seem to be just drip feeding information and contradicting what youve previously said.

so which is it... did he see the construction or not? because that determines what kind of cert he can supply and obviously if hes visited the site during construction that affects what he will quote

I asked a simple (a really simple) question. I was not drip feeding info, what info did I withhold that would have been relevant to whether that quote was considered high / low or normal?

Here's the question again. Ready?

Does the quote we were given seem about right to people?

Maybe there's no way of telling?
Maybe I only have one option and that's to go with this one guy's quote?
I don't know so I came here to ask but maybe that was a mistake?

You seem to know something about this but instead of answering my (again, simple) question you prefer to bizarrely accuse me of drip feeding info?!

How was I contradicting myself when I asked for an initial opinion, you suggested I get three quotes but the work is now complete so how could the other quotes compare??

Anyway, none of that matters as I presume something in my original post irked you for some reason. So we'll draw a line under it and I'll ask again, does that price seem unreasonable to people?

sydthebeat · 21-10-2015 3:28pm

ah look, im out...

youve contradicted yourself and you cant even admit it / see it...
theres LOADS of information you haven given which is relevent

BryanF · 21-10-2015 3:38pm

In order to ensure compliance with building regs an engineer or arch or both should be involved during construction. this becomes an issue if you ever wish to sell, borrow against property.

At this point you will get a heavily cavaeted cert as outlined by Syd above

Question: Does the quote sound reasonable ? Answer: get 3 quotes.

chabsey · 21-10-2015 3:43pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

ah look, im out...

youve contradicted yourself and you cant even admit it / see it...
theres LOADS of information you haven given which is relevent

No problem, you were not helpful.

Before you go though, I edited my post 12 minutes before you replied so, you know, nice try. For those who care the edit was from this:

"I'm don't want to be ripped off..." to this "I don't want to be ripped off"

I'm a little perplexed as to what or how I'm asking this question in such a way to provoke such a response. I'll try to be clearer for anyone else who is slightly less prone to jump down people's necks.

See the original post for the list of certs in question, I don't know if any of these are only issued when the engineer has visited during construction, if so then I guess I'm stuck with this quote cause the extension is complete now.

I any case, I just wanted an idea of whether the quote seemed high to people who know about these things. Please see the previous comments for my blatant attempts at hiding, drip-feeding, contradicting, editing and generally obfuscating the truth of the matter.

chabsey · 21-10-2015 3:50pm

BryanF wrote: »

In order to ensure compliance with building regs an engineer or arch or both should be involved during construction. this becomes an issue if you ever wish to sell, borrow against property.

At this point you will get a heavily cavaeted cert as outlined by Syd above

Question: Does the quote sound reasonable ? Answer: get 3 quotes.

Thank you kindly for the reply, you seem like a reasonable person.

Allow me for the sake of clarity to re-phrase the question slightly: For a quote given to cover those listed certs and given by an engineer who (I claim) visited during development - does the price seem high to you?

I am genuinely without a point of reference here so I guess the essence of what I'm asking is if people who know these things know that generally Cert A costs about 50 euro, B costs maybe 500 euro and C costs 243 euro. So then maybe my quote isn't too high.

Gumbo · 21-10-2015 5:52pm

chabsey wrote: »

Thank you kindly for the reply, you seem like a reasonable person.

Allow me for the sake of clarity to re-phrase the question slightly: For a quote given to cover those listed certs and given by an engineer who (I claim) visited during development - does the price seem high to you?

I am genuinely without a point of reference here so I guess the essence of what I'm asking is if people who know these things know that generally Cert A costs about 50 euro, B costs maybe 500 euro and C costs 243 euro. So then maybe my quote isn't too high.

The problem here is similar to you buying a BMW from "Tony" on donedeal.
Then bringing the BMW to a main dealer and asking them to stand over the car with a warranty. It cannot be done.

Basically, you need to get 3 quotes and getting the 3 quotes from people who will actually stand over the work of they haven't seen it will be hard.

My guess here is that the engineer did see the works progress (as you say) and he is now clawing back some money for those inspections and will certify it accordingly.

If you arrived at my door tomorrow, would I certify it, yes. At a lower price, yes. BUT it will be a visual inspection ONLY and you will have no come back in me or my PI insurance if there is anything wrong behind the paintwork.

Planning exemption - €350 plus VAT.
BUilding Reg compliance - cannot be done if you didn't see the works progress.
Cert of identity - €?? - sorry never came across one of these.

BryanF · 21-10-2015 5:55pm

chabsey wrote: »

For a quote given to cover those listed certs and given by an engineer who (I claim) visited during development - does the price seem high to you?.

1. so the engineer DID visit the project periodically during the development ?

2. Why did he not quote or why did you both not agree Fees prior to commencement?
3. How many times has he visited, how much has he already been paid for construction supervision?

Personally I would not offer a cert of opinion on compliance for a house i didn't visit at various stages during construction. I could not afford the insurance premium hike if you or a future purchaser were to sue based on a construction process i didn't design and watch being built.

My advice get 3 quotes. Best of luck

chabsey · 21-10-2015 5:58pm

kceire wrote: »

The problem here is similar to you buying a BMW from "Tony" on donedeal.
Then bringing the BMW to a main dealer and asking them to stand over the car with a warranty. It cannot be done.

Basically, you need to get 3 quotes and getting the 3 quotes from people who will actually stand over the work of they haven't seen it will be hard.

My guess here is that the engineer did see the works progress (as you say) and he is now clawing back some money for those inspections and will certify it accordingly.

If you arrived at my door tomorrow, would I certify it, yes. At a lower price, yes. BUT it will be a visual inspection ONLY and you will have no come back in me or my PI insurance if there is anything wrong behind the paintwork.

Thanks, really appreciate the info.

Reading between the lines it sounds like the quote is on the higher side of normal but that I am essentially paying for the fact that he's putting his PI insurance on the line by certifying it. By this I mean that I do have come back using him, but if I go with someone cheaper I won't.

Seems fair enough I suppose. Out of interest and I know this is just a guess, but if you were certifying the work and visited during the build (same as my guy did) would you think your quote would then be in or around a similar amount?

chabsey · 21-10-2015 6:01pm

kceire wrote: »

Planning exemption - €350 plus VAT.
BUilding Reg compliance - cannot be done if you didn't see the works progress.
Cert of identity - €?? - sorry never came across one of these.

This type of breakdown is perfect, thanks. I hadn't a clue which of the certs (if any) should only be issued by someone who saw the works in progress.

BryanF · 21-10-2015 6:02pm

chabsey wrote: »

Thanks, really appreciate the info.

Reading between the lines it sounds like the quote is on the higher side of normal but that I am essentially paying for the fact that he's putting his PI insurance on the line by certifying it. By this I mean that I do have come back using him, but if I go with someone cheaper I won't.

Seems fair enough I suppose. Out of interest and I know this is just a guess, but if you were certifying the work and visited during the build (same as my guy did) would you think your quote would then be in or around a similar amount?

Perhaps the engineer is aware of the short cuts that were taken and the non compliant issues he will need to address and follow up ?

Assumptions based on this http://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057508045/1/#post97373181

Gumbo · 21-10-2015 6:20pm

chabsey wrote: »

Thanks, really appreciate the info.

Reading between the lines it sounds like the quote is on the higher side of normal but that I am essentially paying for the fact that he's putting his PI insurance on the line by certifying it. By this I mean that I do have come back using him, but if I go with someone cheaper I won't.

Seems fair enough I suppose. Out of interest and I know this is just a guess, but if you were certifying the work and visited during the build (same as my guy did) would you think your quote would then be in or around a similar amount?

I would go the opposite and say he is reasonable.
Structural design, supervision and certification of a basic simple rear extension would be €1000 plus VAT give or take location and how complex the work was.

lovehathi · 21-10-2015 7:03pm

sorry to hi jack the thread we r in the same boat, our architect did came to inspect during the construction part got paid half and then no were to be seen , i don't know what happened to him ?? so now need to find some one to do this?? how find one.

Gumbo · 21-10-2015 7:39pm

lovehathi wrote: »

sorry to hi jack the thread we r in the same boat, our architect did came to inspect during the construction part got paid half and then no were to be seen , i don't know what happened to him ?? so now need to find some one to do this?? how find one.

Ring 3 and explain situation. Then compare the 3 prices you get.

chabsey · 21-10-2015 8:45pm

kceire wrote: »

I would go the opposite and say he is reasonable.
Structural design, supervision and certification of a basic simple rear extension would be €1000 plus VAT give or take location and how complex the work was.

Perfect, that's all I was looking for. I just wanted an idea if the price was roughly what others considered normal so thank you, appreciated.

Extension - certificate costs

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