Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2015 - Mod Note Post 7373

FutureGuy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PG2FQLOwBnE

So long ago. Where did it all go wrong.

bangkok

adox wrote: »

Ah Bangkok.........



.......like clockwork

when a player plays as bad regularly like Fellaini does, what do you expect?

homerjay2005

seems to be suggesting things are starting to move though i would believe that LVG has two games away to save his job -

Adam Crafton ‏@AdamCrafton_
It appears the #mufc board have finally opened their eyes, then.

Korat

Phil Jones has been speaking up in support of LVG.

Is he the 4th captain?

duffman13

Daz_ wrote: »

Just curious but how can you still be "onside" with LVG? Have you seen our stats ? Also do you have an example where LVG has improved a player in the past 18 months?

Smalling has improved immensely, you don't have to go back too far in this forum to see people wanting him out, he's now looking like a top centre half. Young has improved and become a squad player that actually provides options. I'm not exactly littering you with examples but we've had a lot of disruption due to injuries. My point is there are examples.

There has been so much change and flux in terms of personell that it's difficult to really get into it but when you look at the signings of Martial, Depay, Shaw, Schneiderlin and the use of the youth players I see someone trying too build something to last.

I've no problem with people wanting him gone, the results have been dire and I've been getting up at all hours to watch games due to an 11 hour time difference however I still think the signings have been promising even though we haven't seen what I expected. People are unhappy with our attacking unit, two of which are young and new to the league. I think the man deserves till the end of the season for the fact he has been looking at the long term picture.

I don't know what we will get with Jose but most likely it will be pragmatic football which may deliver a consistent result but the style of football won't be great and opportunities for younger players will be limited. You only need to look at some of the players at Chelsea that didn't get a run like Loftus Cheek.

Liam O

Lucas Hood wrote: »

They all probably had bad games .

Fellaini is just bad full stop .

He looks out of place in a Manchester united team.

You're right, I think when Fellaini is playing as a centre mid he should be both controlling the game from deep and getting forward to score goals. He should be the Xavi, Iniesta and Ibrahimovic all in one that we crave.

duffman13

homerjay2005 wrote: »

epic rant from Andy again -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOKxYRoEdEU

I hate this clown being rolled out, cant articulate a point and seems to want to rant for the bit of fame now.

Chris_Bradley

2 games to save his bacon, could easily lose those 2 with ease too.

Looking bleak for Van Boring

bucketybuck

duffman13 wrote: »

There has been so much change and flux in terms of personell that it's difficult to really get into it but when you look at the signings of Martial, Depay, Shaw, Schneiderlin and the use of the youth players I see someone trying too build something to last.

The Soccer Saturday guys slated United up and down on Saturday, but one of the points raised was something I have been trying to point out lately.

Van Gaal constantly gets credited with "developing" young players but what he has been doing this season is not development at all. You ease young players into the team, you play them alongside senior players who can teach and protect them when needed, you judge the right times to use them and the right time to take them out. You take the pressure of them and let them concentrate on their games.

You don't big them up, play them a few games then ship them out. You don't sit them on the bench all season despite having no other options and then ship them out anyway. You don't throw 3 kids into a dysfunctional defence at the same time for the biggest game of the season without any leadership or protection. You don't put all the attacking hopes and dreams on the sholuders of one 19 year old.

What Van Gaal has been doing is not development, and thats why whenever people ask who has improved during his time here nobody can give an answer beyond Smalling and maybe Ashley Young, and thats damned by faint praise indeed.

Irishcrx

Have the board come out and said anything? Where are people getting this two games? Speculation?

homerjay2005

Irishcrx wrote: »

Have the board come out and said anything? Where are people getting this two games? Speculation?

seems to be the likes of Ogdan and Ladyman saying it, others saying he is on "thin ice" which means he is almost a busted flush.

what happens i wonder if we drew both games?

Lord TSC

Ogden, Ladyman and Jackson all posted the "Two games" story within 15 minutes of each other. They are the Holy Trinity when it comes to offical briefings from Ed, so its as close to an official statement as seeing it up on the official website.

Whats interesting is that by sending that news out in that manner, it could be used to gage support; the reaction has been very negative in a "Why not sack him now?" way, so it's possible that they could see that reaction and sack him anyway, and deny the two game story as made up press speculation. I think thats why Ladyman and Jackson have seemingly been very caution posting the story; they say it could happen, or he could be gone by Xmas, covering their bases...

The Moldy Gowl

Chris_Bradley wrote: »

2 games to save his bacon, could easily lose those 2 with ease too.

Looking bleak for Van Boring

That van boring quip of yours is extremely intelligent.
Well done.

Korat

homerjay2005 wrote: »

what happens i wonder if we drew both games?

The club will put in a significant bid for Ronaldo/Bale/Neymar?

Leroy42

The two game story is nonesense.

Why would the board give him that demand. Either they beleive in his position or they don't. We could fluke the two games, or even batter the two games and it doesn't chance the fundamentals.

It is a ridiculous position to put any manager in. Win these two games or else. What is LVG suppossed to day to that. 'Oh, you want to win games, you should have said! Right lads, handbrake, off lets play. Enough of the cardshark 'pretend we haven't a clue' stuff. I reckon we got everyone fooled and can now cash in on the bigger odds!'

Either LVG ditches his philosphy and goes another direction (which is to admit he is completely wrong) and the team hit form, or he continues on in the vain hope that something will click. Either way it doesn't bode well for either him or the club. So we now have the situation whereby the fans have lost faith, the players don't appear to have any faith, the press has given up and now the board has given up.

Well, if the board need two more games to see what is happening that reflects pretty badly on them running the club.

A final point, I have a lot of time for Moyes, feel he was promoted passed his ability and was left in the lurch by the club. But his decision to give Rooney the bumper contract was the mistake that has hurt the club the most. A crazy decision and one that is going to cost the club for many years.

KH25

To me, if the club has given him 2 games they've already made their mind up. How would they judge sufficient performance? 2 drab wins? 2 draws where we play well but can't score? 2 losses where we play free-flowing attacking football but lose because of a lucky goal?

RobertKK

J. Marston wrote: »

From Reddit (too big to embed)...

https://i.imgur.com/gHshgov.png

When's he back? He seems quite important.

I posted a similar stat for when he played for Southampton and when he didn't. Their results collapsed when he was out, which led to me believing he is very important and underrated.

IamtheWalrus

The Manchester Untied job is too prestigious to give to someone who wanted one last large pay cheque before they retire.

Trigger

KH25 wrote: »

To me, if the club has given him 2 games they've already made their mind up. How would they judge sufficient performance? 2 drab wins? 2 draws where we play well but can't score? 2 losses where we play free-flowing attacking football but lose because of a lucky goal?

I'm putting 2 and 2 together and getting 5 ( that they have mourinho lined up and will bring him in after the Chelsea game)

wrt40

Leroy42 wrote: »

The two game story is nonesense.

Why would the board give him that demand. Either they beleive in his position or they don't. We could fluke the two games, or even batter the two games and it doesn't chance the fundamentals.

The two more games is significant because he has been given a mandate and that apparently is a top 4 position and staying in contention for the title (but realistically he was never told to actually go win the title).

7th place and out of the title race at the landmark halfway Christmas point is a sackable offense given his mandate. they cannot afford to wait any longer and see if he improves, they've given him long enough already.

The Moldy Gowl

astradave wrote: »

I'm putting 2 and 2 together and getting 5 ( that they have mourinho lined up and will bring him in after the Chelsea game)

Ya. Or he has said he will take over next week somtime.
He might want to spend Christmas with his family as well and have a few sleep ins.

Mourinho taking charge for the Chelsea game would be a disaster for distractions.

Korat

RobertKK wrote: »

I posted a similar stat for when he played for Southampton and when he didn't. Their results collapsed when he was out, which led to me believing he is very important and underrated.

He's the midfielder Utd have been missing since Hargreaves packed in.

It's cruel that we have him when everything else is gone to sh*t.

Delboy5

Serge Adam ‏@SergeMUFC 12h12 hours ago
Do I want #mufc to lose their next two games so that LvG gets the sack? No, no I don't. That's just pure idiocy & down right stupid.

Oli Winton ‏@OliWinton 12h12 hours ago
@SergeMUFC would also involve believing the nonsense view that the decision is not already made

I believe this guy (Oli) has a few United connections, his tweet hints the decision has already been made.......

Julez

IamtheWalrus wrote: »

The Manchester Untied job is too prestigious to give to someone who wanted one last large pay cheque before they retire.

This isn't really a fair comment in my eyes. One thing I would say about Van Gaal is, while it might not be working, you can see that he is meticulous and hard working. He's not just there for the ride and payout.

J. Marston

Don't really get the whole "2 games left to save his job" stuff.

That Sword of Damocles shít makes no sense. If he wins his next two, does that buy him another 2 poor results afterwards?

Flint Fredstone

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

That van boring quip of yours is extremely intelligent.
Well done.

It's terrible isn't it?
He could have put a bit of effort in.
Louis van dull or Louis van droll would have at least shown he tried.

Here's one for ya, Louis banal, you can use that for free.

Korat

Julez wrote: »

One thing I would say about Van Gaal is, while it might not be working, you can see that he is meticulous and hard working. He's not just there for the ride and payout.

I think he's been trying to set himself up for one last glorious victory on his terms. Making fools of the critics by winning with tactics that disgust Cruyff and the rest of the Rinus Michels disciples.

duffman13

bucketybuck wrote: »

The Soccer Saturday guys slated United up and down on Saturday, but one of the points raised was something I have been trying to point out lately.

Van Gaal constantly gets credited with "developing" young players but what he has been doing this season is not development at all. You ease young players into the team, you play them alongside senior players who can teach and protect them when needed, you judge the right times to use them and the right time to take them out. You take the pressure of them and let them concentrate on their games.

You don't big them up, play them a few games then ship them out. You don't sit them on the bench all season despite having no other options and then ship them out anyway. You don't throw 3 kids into a dysfunctional defence at the same time for the biggest game of the season without any leadership or protection. You don't put all the attacking hopes and dreams on the sholuders of one 19 year old.

What Van Gaal has been doing is not development, and thats why whenever people ask who has improved during his time here nobody can give an answer beyond Smalling and maybe Ashley Young, and thats damned by faint praise indeed.

Aye cause it killed Xavi and Thomas Muller playing 30 odd games at 19 or 20 and really stunted their development. The manager bought Martial and Depay for the future, he's said it numerous times, and the senior player expected to carry the burden of the attack was Rooney has been crying out to lead the line for years and has performed awfully thus meaning more emphasis is needed on Depay and Martial.

As for throwing players into a dysfunctional defense, we have played the players available to us, can we criticise him for not filling the squad with better back up, of course we can however I'm happy to see academy players put in and given an opportunity to improve rather than putting Fellaini or Carrick in the back four.

As I've said previously, I take no issue with people saying it's not been good enough and I agree however I also think he is planning for the future and trying to leave a core of players that can be there for ten years.

Would you like José in?

Rayne Wooney

Wasn't Mourinho's first title winning team at Chelsea really young, must have been an average age of 23/24

I'd say a lot of his reluctance to play young players these days is down to them simply not being good enough, if they were he would play them

beno619

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

Forcing Welbeck out. Ah stop.

He was essentially forced out the same way many other have been.

Lord TSC

beno619 wrote: »

He was essentially forced out the same way many other have been.

Welbeck was in a line up with Rooney, Van Persie and Falcao. If he was "forced out", it was because he was rightly 4th choice, and had the cop on to push for a move to another team. IIRC, he was offered a loan move to Spurs, but insisted on a sale to Arsenal as well...a team where he has utterly failed to set the world on fire, carried on his form, and missed massive amounts of time through injury.

Letting Welbeck go was 100% the right decision at the time, both from the club and from the player, and he's done nothing since leaving to show me a mistake was made there by the club.

wrt40

duffman13 wrote: »

Would you like José in?

He may well be the best manager available. Ancellotti is going to Bayern and Pep is going to City (and I'd rate Jose ahead of him anyway, but that's for another day). Is Giggs ready? they could maybe give him the rest of the season and see how it goes.

sky88

I think if they do sack LVG and hire Jose we will all still be complaining about the style of play and in 2 years we going to be at a standstill again as i cant see Jose ever lasting long at a club. Jose wont bring youth players through and wont play in the united way that so many talk about.

I think the club is in a major crossroads at the minute as it looks like LVG cant turn it around.

beno619

bangkok wrote: »

when a player plays as bad regularly like Fellaini does, what do you expect?

Fellaini has been one of the better performers in recent weeks even though LVG has given him in a bizarre role.

homerjay2005

J. Marston wrote: »

Don't really get the whole "2 games left to save his job" stuff.

That Sword of Damocles shít makes no sense. If he wins his next two, does that buy him another 2 poor results afterwards?

that is the problem i have with it also. Moyes for example should have gone in early December, but then he won 5 games on the bounce and all was temporarily forgotten - "we are only 3 points off 4th, lets have a good window and see how we are in February." same thing happened in february and March a couple of "good results" later and he last until April.

bucketybuck

duffman13 wrote: »

Aye cause it killed Xavi and Thomas Muller playing 30 odd games at 19 or 20 and really stunted their development.

A complete non-sequitur.

however I also think he is planning for the future and trying to leave a core of players that can be there for ten years.

Again though, thats just repeating the mantra and the assumption that he is developing something, when the evidence in front of us is that even if development is his aim, he is going about it really badly.

Korat

I blamed a linesman at OT v Porto in '04 and Quinton Fortune at left back in the first game of the '04-'05 season for Mourinho's success until he won the CL with Inter.

Trapattoni, Mathaus, Brehme and Klinsmann couldn't do that.

For all his faults Mourinho has a better record than anyone still in the game.

duffman13

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Wasn't Mourinho's first title winning team at Chelsea really young, must have been an average age of 23/24

I'd say a lot of his reluctance to play young players these days is down to them simply not being good enough, if they were he would play them

Don't recall it being that young but would dispute it either. His first season was there most exciting, he had Duff, Makelele, Lampard and Terry. He came into a team that had signed Drogba, Cech and Robben. I'm almost sure those three were announced while Ranieri was still around, definitely Drogba anyway. He bought in a lot of players, I'm not sure off the top of my head who he's brought through at any club he's been at with maybe the exception of Ballotelli.

LVG has been credited by Xavi, Puyol, Muller, Schweinsteiger and Alaba as being pivotal in their development. To have a long term ambition I'd believe more in Van Gaal than Mourinho. Happy to eat my words but he is genuinely unlikeable and won't bring back the kind of football we all want

Lovely Bloke

sky88 wrote: »

the united way

Such bullshít, and the same kind of bollocks I believe held Liverpool back throughout the 90s.

There is no "united way", there's a results business, and managers either get results or they don't.

Mourinho has gotten results in every job and he should be top of the list to replace LVG if LVG is to be replaced soon.

(if the stories about Guardiola to City are true).

United need to stop allowing Bobby Charlton such veto power.

beno619

Lord TSC wrote: »

Welbeck was in a line up with Rooney, Van Persie and Falcao. If he was "forced out", it was because he was rightly 4th choice, and had the cop on to push for a move to another team. IIRC, he was offered a loan move to Spurs, but insisted on a sale to Arsenal as well...a team where he has utterly failed to set the world on fire, carried on his form, and missed massive amounts of time through injury.

Letting Welbeck go was 100% the right decision at the time, both from the club and from the player, and he's done nothing since leaving to show me a mistake was made there by the club.

I dissagree.

We see how backing RVP, Rooney & Falcao has turned out.

He's united through and through.

Welbeck started well at Arsenal then got injured also helped to the FA cup last season if memory serves me correct.

Delboy5

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/6817024/Mourinho-to-Man-Utd-all-but-agreed-the-final-decision-on-sacking-Louis-van-Gaal-is-now-down-to-the-Glazers.html

duffman13

bucketybuck wrote: »

Again though, thats just repeating the mantra and the assumption that he is developing something, when the evidence in front of us is that even if development is his aim, he is going about it really badly.

At the end of the day it would be down right blind of me not to agree in some way with this post however I also have to look at his past record and give some faith to his vision.

He has signed players who are young, talented and hungry. He probably could have spent similar money buying more established players in the summer which may have meant we have more points right now but he has taken the chance to try develop something special with a young group.

I am going to repeat the mantra that he is trying to develop something, we have looked terrible the last few weeks and it's hard to watch but the guy hardly sits their enjoying us losing.

I agree with the concensus that the last few weeks/months haven't been good enough, I just feel with the chance we may get Mourinho that in this position id rather LVG. Mourinho is not going to bring us back to entertaining football. Giggs is not ready and I don't know who else is available that is better bar maybe Guardiola.

IamtheWalrus

Its all up in the air so it is

Delboy5

Delboy5 wrote: »

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/6817024/Mourinho-to-Man-Utd-all-but-agreed-the-final-decision-on-sacking-Louis-van-Gaal-is-now-down-to-the-Glazers.html

How can Jose agree a deal. But then the Sun turns around and says if LVG has one last chance?

So if utd beat stoke then they turn around and say "hey jose on second thoughts no that deal is void because we beat stoke"

You can not expect a team that changed half first choice players less than four months ago to be developed. You have been competing at near the top with work in progress. Real success is not instant.

duffman13

beno619 wrote: »

I dissagree.

We see how backing RVP, Rooney & Falcao has turned out.

He's united through and through.

Welbeck started well at Arsenal then got injured also helped to the FA cup last season if memory serves me correct.

Hindsight I is great and all but let's be honest at that point in time there wasn't a man alive bar Welbeck himself who'd put him ahead of the other 3. Welbeck is United through and through but he will never be a world class striker, he's such a poor finisher.

bangkok

duffman13 wrote: »

Hindsight I is great and all but let's be honest at that point in time there wasn't a man alive bar Welbeck himself who'd put him ahead of the other 3. Welbeck is United through and through but he will never be a world class striker, he's such a poor finisher.

in fairness, Aguero is the only world class striker in the league so that is very harsh. He is a very good striker and when given the chance up front has proved he can score goals. it was a crazy decision to sell him

sky88

beno619 wrote: »

I dissagree.

We see how backing RVP, Rooney & Falcao has turned out.

He's united through and through.

Welbeck started well at Arsenal then got injured also helped to the FA cup last season if memory serves me correct.

Wellbeck just isnt good enough for united or arsenal for that matter. He is just not a goalscorer and i dont think he ever will be. He hasnt shown much at arsenal to say otherwise before he was injured.

Yes he was united through and through but shouldnt keep a player just because of that. Cleverley was united through and through as well but doesnt change the fact there just not good enough players.

wrt40

M!Ck^ wrote: »

How can Jose agree a deal. But then the Sun turns around and says if LVG has one last chance?

So if utd beat stoke then they turn around and say "hey jose on second thoughts no that deal is void because we beat stoke"

I think the 2 more games thing has been misinterpreted. It doesn't mean he'll stay if they win them. He's finished and the debate is whether or not a change of manager over the Christmas period is wise or not. If he's not sacked now he'll be sacked after Christmas no matter what the results.

Lord TSC

Said a few days back he's one of the more credible journalists imo.

https://twitter.com/JanAageFjortoft/status/678889527319126017

Been talking to a lot of people last days.

My understanding:

Van Gaal OUT

Giggs the new manager

Could happen before Christmas

He later added he doesn't know if Giggs is permanent or not. My guess is Giggs takes Stoke and Chelsea, and then Jose in after the Chelsea game.