Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2015 - Mod Note Post 7373

Lord TSC

Lord TSC wrote: »

I cant help but feel that if that was the City manager or Pool manager or Chelsea manager, we'd be laughing that they were having a breakdown....

I'm laughing at the meltdown anyway.

And the fact that some are seeing it as a sign of some strength on his part, an ability to stand up to the press or something, makes it funnier.

Vertigo100

Coward?

Is there somewhere to vote for stupidest post of the year?

Mitch Connor

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

Never said that at all. You can criticise without name calling and throwing toys out of the pram like a spoilt child.

And you made this point by calling people, critically, glory hunters.

Flint Fredstone

Mitch Connor wrote: »

And you made this point by calling people, critically, glory hunters.

I didn't use any term. It's easy to say something without using a derogatory term.

Mitch Connor

Vertigo100 wrote: »

Coward?

Is there somewhere to vote for stupidest post of the year?

Probably - there is usually an 'awards' thread each year.

The football of the team he manages is cowardly imo, making him, imo, a cowardly manager.

Sure he can put on the brave face with the media, and make up BS reasons as to why the team is doing well (getting knocked out of the CL and going a round further int he League Cup proves we are improved over last year, remember) but when it comes to the football, he doesn't have the bravery to go for the win and look to entertain. Protect a 0-0 and if we get a better result through a scrappy goal then great. IMO it isn't the mantra or style of a manager that has faith in his players, the expensively put together group of players he has gutted and built up over the last 18 months. It is the style of a manager that is afraid of another Leicster City humiliation if he sets them up offensively. Things were looking promising til that game imo, he's been afraid since then, imo.

bucketybuck

TheDoc wrote: »

I do be genuinely fearful that opinions in England can be forged by the papers, genuinely fearful.

Don't be fearful, be certain, its a simple fact of life and Van Gaal would have been a lot better served recognising that simple fact instead of trying to be Billy Big Balls all the time.

External pressures can influence decisions at football clubs, like it or not. The media can whip the unwashed masses up into hysteria or they can hide a favoured clubs faults in a wash of friendly articles. If the media had been repeatedly talking about Van Gaal working long term and building for the future you would be hearing less kick back from the fans. If they start saying his job is on the line or Giggs is in mutiny then the fans start to ask their own questions and get angsty.

Remember, people are smart and have their own opinions. Crowds are stupid and can be influenced. All leaders know this.

Whether it should be that way is utterly irrelevant, it is what it is and every single manager needs to account for it.

monkey9

I just saw the full LVG press conference. I must say, it was riveting. He turned up because he had to, lectured them and offered them mince pies and wine as he f*cked off. Brilliant!!

monkey9

monkey9 wrote: »

I just saw the full LVG press conference. I must say, it was riveting. He turned up because he had to, lectured them and offered them mince pies and wine as he f*cked off. Brilliant!!

He looked like a man who knew where the wine was!

monkey9

Deleted User wrote: »

He looked like a man who knew where the wine was!

Most press conferences are boring though. He was having none of it. I genuinely enjoyed watching it.

billyhead

Fair play to him for giving the press the 2 fingers but I reckon he hasn't got long to go in the hotseat and Ed told him yesterday at the meeting he has next 2 games to save it.

bucketybuck

Just seen the full press conference, jesus christ people actually think that was good?

Whiny ****ing bull**** is what I heard. An appeal to emotion from the media, how cringeworthy!! "Did you think of my wife, my kids, my grandkids, the fans, wah wah wah". "We were nearly top, why are you being so mean, wah wah wah". "I get calls from Fergie and Woodward and Gill wah wah wah".

If I was a rival fan I would be laughing my bollocks off right now.

billyhead

Deleted User wrote: »

He looked like a man who knew where the wine was!

I would say he went straight for the bottle after the presser. Probably pissed in the journos wine before they came into the room:D

monkey9

bucketybuck wrote: »

Just seen the full press conference, jesus christ people actually think that was good?

Whiny ****ing bull**** is what I heard. An appeal to emotion from the media, how cringeworthy!! "Did you think of my wife, my kids, my grandkids, the fans, wah wah wah". "We were nearly top, why are you being so mean, wah wah wah". "I get calls from Fergie and Woodward and Gill wah wah wah".

If I was a rival fan I would be laughing my bollocks off right now.

In fairness, that's probably why i enjoyed it. But i like the managers making it uncomfortable for the journalists at times.

RobertKK

Louis showed the human side to the game, which is often missing when it comes to managers.

His attitude was basically, why should I answer questions if they are already making up stuff, as they don't care about the facts, don't care abut his family or friends, and the people who do matter are supporting him.

The media will have to be more careful if they want to question him, and stick to facts rather than making up stuff. I think on more than one level he got it right.

It was a fighting Louis and I hope he turns United around starting on Saturday.

bucketybuck

RobertKK wrote: »

The media will have to be more careful if they want to question him, and still to facts rather than making up stuff. I think on more than one level he got it right.

It doesn't work like that, the media will be what the media will be regardless. There isn't one of them in that room embarrassed in the slightest, they probably loved every bit of it.

If you want to see the real effect of interviews like that just listen to Sky Sports news. Not what they are saying, but the words they are using. Before even showing the clip they used words like underfire, danger of the sack, under pressure, Mourinho to replace Van Gaal. Thats the narrative now, not a fiery fightback from a defiant Van Gaal.

The media won't be one bit careful about it, they will spin a narrative in response, thats what they do.

StringerBell

Alex Meier wrote: »

Well VG is about to be sacked from his second job in four years. . . Some influence.

Even if that were true (and its obviously not) what does that have to do with the original statement?

Out of interest, have you ever been right about anything? Ever?

RobertKK

RobertKK wrote: »

The media will have to be more careful if they want to question him, and stick to facts rather than making up stuff. I think on more than one level he got it right.

It was a fighting Louis and I hope he turns United around starting on Saturday.

Yes.

Because the media is famous for backing down when a manager on the ropes starts blaming them!

Bet they'll start tomorrow and oblige by relegating this story to a small paragraph near the obituaries. It won't be splashed across the back pages at all at all at all.

rob316

Well done to Van Gaal on how he handled that. I really didn't enjoy watching that and he didn't deserve it.

StringerBell

Mitch Connor wrote: »

He's going nowhere and neither are United under him.

A coward of a manager.

This is my LOL of the day today

adox

Having watched the press conference I have to say I did enjoy it as he is extremely interesting to listen to but, Jaysus if that was Mourhino we would be laughing our bollix off and saying he is having a meltdown.

Also, to be fair to Mitch, he isn't the first to call Van Gaals football cowardly on here. I'm sure I did earlier in the season, although I think it was his wording "Van Gaal is a coward" that got people's nose out of joint.

If the club are serious about being behind Van Gaal I would expect some sort of statement before the Stoke game, now that the press conference has happened.

Sand

Didn't see anything too wrong with that press conference. He was calm throughout, never even raised his voice and strolled out when it became clear the media only wanted to talk about him getting the sack. Thought the media were poor - I think you can hear one of them going "Ooooooooh..." when they realise he is leaving. Real schoolboy stuff. LVG made the point that he gains nothing from engaging with them, or feeding a story they are running with and he's right. Media certainly wont help him - only winning football games will.

Not sure the media actually have much power on the decision makers the club either. Glazers dont care what some sports journalist thinks. Woodward certainly doesn't care what the media think given they were trying to do a hatchet job on him 3-4 months ago. And Fergie (for whatever its worth) positively loathes the media. LVG may get pushed but it wont be because the media run negative stories on him.

StringerBell

Whining?

Explaining to the media why he has no interest in talking to them (cause they are like a rabid pack of wolves who constantly make **** up) in whining now? You think he expected an apology? You really think he wanted an emotional response out of them? Me bollix he did.

He wants nothing to do with them.

rizzodun

Personally I'm glad he kind of gave a two fingers to the media, remember when Klopp went on a run and all of a sudden Liverpool were gonna win the league? The media need to shut the hell up, they don't mirror proper footballing fans and just whip a frenzy on the narrow minded sheeple who listen to their ramblings.

And this from a pool fan.

StringerBell

adox wrote: »

Having watched the press conference I have to say I did enjoy it as he is extremely interesting to listen to but, Jaysus if that was Mourhino we would be laughing our bollix off and saying he is having a meltdown.

Also, to be fair to Mitch, he isn't the first to call Van Gaals football cowardly on here. I'm sure I did earlier in the season, although I think it was his wording "Van Gaal is a coward" that got people's nose out of joint.

If the club are serious about being behind Van Gaal I would expect some sort of statement before the Stoke game, now that the press conference has happened.

Mitch didn't call Van Gaals football cowardly initially, in his hissy fit he he simply called him a coward of a manager. He has adopted a slightly better position after the backlash he received probably.

I don't see it as a melt down, he looked in full control during the conference, he was measured and didn't rush out when he did say his goodbyes. He made his way slowly out of the room rather then storm off.

Rayne Wooney

Lord TSC wrote: »

In fairness, the team have been trying to play attack-minded football for a few matches now. The issues are...

1. The players aren't preforming well enough, aren't creating chances and aren't finishing the few they are.
2. As soon as we go "balls to the wall", our defense gets exposed and torn to shreds.

Ultimately though, if the players don't want to play for him, and now know failing to win in 1 of the next two matches gets rid of him, they might not be motivated to play

I refuse to believe that after all of the money we have spent and the squad we have that we need to worry more about the damage Norwich, Bournemouth, Watford, Crystal Palace and Stoke on Saturday can do to our defence than our attack can do to theirs.

Do people realise how unbelievably mental that is? That in an open game these teams can out score us?

the idea that Van Gaal has us playing defensively because that's as good as you can hope for with this squad of players is a very scary one, especially when the opposition is those listed above

TheTownie

Bild's front page saying Pep will get £18M a year at City.

adox

StringerBell wrote: »

I don't see it as a melt down, he looked in full control during the conference, he was measured and didn't rush out when he did say his goodbyes. He made his way slowly out of the room rather then storm off.

Oh he was in full control alright,extremely calm and measured with his words, it was riveting stuff and I actually like listening to him. But I mean digging down into the content, going on about his wife and kids, family friends etc calling to see what was happening was a bit cringe IMO. I mean you'd swear he'd been accused of bribery or something like that. He's a seasoned top flight manager coming to the end of his career and it came across as a naive young manager not used to the attention of being in the public eye. It reminded me a little of that interview Mourhino gave post match earlier in the season when he just talked and rambled on, calm as you like and then left.

The press were always going to speculate on his position with the run of results and style of football. Watching that press conference Van Gaal gave the impression that he is surprised and disappointed by the reaction of the press and that his position is being questioned, with replacements being named. I don't believe that to be true at all so while I was initially intrigued by it, thinking about it, it's just waffle.

He's a big boy who has played at the big boys table for decades and is well able to look after himself. I thought he played a cheap card in the press conference and may have been the first real signs of defeat from him.

StringerBell

StringerBell wrote: »

I don't see it as a melt down, he looked in full control during the conference, he was measured and didn't rush out when he did say his goodbyes. He made his way slowly out of the room rather then storm off.

Good Lord.

So saying "I'm not talking to the media, I'm out of here" is not a manager in a crisis but one in full control.

Some of the analysis here us funnier than the meltdown. Not every manager on the ropes has throbbing veins and bulging eyes. But that was calamitous!

Sand

Deleted User wrote: »

Good Lord.

So saying "I'm not talking to the media, I'm out of here" is not a manager in a crisis but one in full control.

Some of the analysis here us funnier than the meltdown. Not every manager on the ropes has throbbing veins and bulging eyes. But that was calamitous!

I think a manager in full control is a manager in full control. People can obviously read whatever they want in to things, and people will always look for the most entertaining spin on things. But if that's a meltdown, then the word hardly describes Mourinho's media interactions earlier this very same season.

Thepoet85

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

Has there been any other managers who dosent care about the press like fergie or Louis?

TheDoc

Andy Mitten just had an excellent segment onofftheball there.

The guys started with the "is this a man cracking under pressure" and Mitten launched a pretty passionate defence for Van Gaal in the context of the interview. And went into some detail about the recent stories and editorial decisions from the last few days. According to him the two games to save stuff is not coming from any United source and that LVG has the full support of the club.

It was a really riveting listen. Sat in my car a good 20 mins where I'd normally go into the house.

I have to say while my head dropped after Norwich and I lost the faith, I feel my support for Van Gaal reignited after today. I know its odd. But that presser just really presses some buttons for me. I detest the UK press pack (I'l worked as a journalist for a few years on a voluntary basis) and what Van Gaal did today was dress them down entirely in a calm and controlled manner.

There is no doubt results must improve and he must start making big calls to get us back on track. But I've every will in the world and hope he is the man to turn it around

Pro. F

TheDoc wrote: »

He is even happy to have a proper debate with people that question his stuff, once its an actual tangible question.

What evidence do you have of this?

RobertKK

Andy Mitten on Off the Ball said he heard nothing about Van Gaal having only two games to keep his job.
Earlier this month, Ed Woodward said Van Gaal is a genius.
Ed Woodward and his wife do go out regularly with Louis and his wife for things like having dinner together, they get on really well.
He said if Woodward sacked Van Gaal, it would undermine himself given the genius comment.

Andy said he has stories that were reported differently to what he said.

Graham Hunter says United went to Simeone and asked if he would take over United after Moyes was sacked at the end of the season, he said no.
He says Simeone is passionate about Atletico and unlikely to leave for Chelsea, not impossible but unlikely.

Lord TSC

TheDoc wrote: »

According to him the two games to save stuff is not coming from any United source and that LVG has the full support of the club.

Dont buy this. If it wasnt a briefing, it means Ogden, Ladyman and Jackson all teamed up and decided to get the two game story out there, which would probably nuke them with the club. Those three are the Holy Trinity for briefings from Ed...

DARK-KNIGHT

TheTownie wrote: »

Bild's front page saying Pep will get £18M a year at City.

If that is true then just lol...

Jose for reported 6 or pep for 18 ffs lmao

RobertKK

TheDoc wrote: »

Andy Mitten just had an excellent segment onofftheball there.

The guys started with the "is this a man cracking under pressure" and Mitten launched a pretty passionate defence for Van Gaal in the context of the interview. And went into some detail about the recent stories and editorial decisions from the last few days. According to him the two games to save stuff is not coming from any United source and that LVG has the full support of the club.

It was a really riveting listen. Sat in my car a good 20 mins where I'd normally go into the house.

I have to say while my head dropped after Norwich and I lost the faith, I feel my support for Van Gaal reignited after today. I know its odd. But that presser just really presses some buttons for me. I detest the UK press pack (I'l worked as a journalist for a few years on a voluntary basis) and what Van Gaal did today was dress them down entirely in a calm and controlled manner.

There is no doubt results must improve and he must start making big calls to get us back on track. But I've every will in the world and hope he is the man to turn it around

I agree, I hope Van Gaal does manage to turn the ship that some claim is sinking.

I was listening to Graham Hunter while I posted so you beat me to it, it was a good listen alright.

RobertKK

Lord TSC wrote: »

Dont buy this. If it wasnt a briefing, it means Ogden, Ladyman and Jackson all teamed up and decided to get the two game story out there, which would probably nuke them with the club. Those three are the Holy Trinity for briefings from Ed...

They would have to cancel MUTV's United in Press.

Sand

Pro. F wrote: »

What evidence do you have of this?

The infamous long ball football press conference at the West Ham game last season. He made the mistake of trying to address the claim of long ball football with the media. Quickly realised he was talking to shaved chimps in t shirts and hasn't bothered since.

Hococop

DARK-KNIGHT wrote: »

If that is true then just lol...

Jose for reported 6 or pep for 18 ffs lmao

For us it would be 20 million to take him away from city, crazy money

homerjay2005

Lord TSC wrote: »

Dont buy this. If it wasnt a briefing, it means Ogden, Ladyman and Jackson all teamed up and decided to get the two game story out there, which would probably nuke them with the club. Those three are the Holy Trinity for briefings from Ed...

it wouldnt surprise me at all if there was genuine support within the club for him and LVG being sacked was nowhere near.

it took them 5 or 6 months to sack Moyes, theres no reason it wont happen again.

DARK-KNIGHT

DARK-KNIGHT wrote: »

If that is true then just lol...

Jose for reported 6 or pep for 18 ffs lmao

Money doesn't matter much to City though so I doubt they mind too much if they get their man

Sand

homerjay2005 wrote: »

it wouldnt surprise me at all if there was genuine support within the club for him and LVG being sacked was nowhere near.

it took them 5 or 6 months to sack Moyes, theres no reason it wont happen again.

Who are the immediate options to replace LVG? Giggs? Nope. Mourinho? Doesn't address any of the concerns raised on LVG: Boring football? Check. Previously successful manager with recently very poor record with a talented squad? Check. Lost the dressing room? Check. Cringe inducing press conferences? Check.

I don't think the club are immune to the bad results recently, but things will need to get a lot worse before either are seen as upgrades on the incumbent.

bucketybuck

Sand wrote: »

Who are the immediate options to replace LVG? Giggs? Nope. Mourinho? Doesn't address any of the concerns raised on LVG: Boring football? Check. Previously successful manager with recently very poor record with a talented squad? Check. Lost the dressing room? Check. Cringe inducing press conferences? Check.

I don't think the club are immune to the bad results recently, but things will need to get a lot worse before either are seen as upgrades on the incumbent.

Thats torturing the defintion of "recent record". Mourinhos recent record is that he is the current Premier league winning manager.

TheDoc

Lord TSC wrote: »

Dont buy this. If it wasnt a briefing, it means Ogden, Ladyman and Jackson all teamed up and decided to get the two game story out there, which would probably nuke them with the club. Those three are the Holy Trinity for briefings from Ed...

Well Mitten indicated that if it was a brief, its from an unusual and not the norm contact within the hierarchy.

He was directly asked about how surely with all the stories this week, it read like a brief. He said he would normally receive such a brief. And the likely thing was that someone had a hunch and acted on it, and everyone else was being reactionary.

He went into some detail how he was been hounded by his editor and numerous people throughout the week, yet has nothing to tell them regarding the story, as hes received no indication of an imminent sacking.

Sand

bucketybuck wrote: »

Thats torturing the defintion of "recent record". Mourinhos recent record is that he is the current Premier league winning manager.

So you would still back him managing Chelsea into a relegation battle? On the one hand you cant be calling for LVG to be sacked when he was topping the league 4 weeks ago, whilst defending Mourinho down in the relegation zone. Last season is last season.

I saw a comparison of LVG and Mourinhos match record since August 2014 - they're practically identical. LVG achieved a comparable record whilst rebuilding a team. Mourinho on the other hand made a few tweaks and stumbled to the title. LVG is at one end of the table and Mourinho finished his Chelsea career at the other end. One is a failure, the other is a winner and his supposed successor? The recent record is quite poor, but LVG has delivered more points for United in the recent games than Klopp has for Liverpool or Pellagrini has for City. Ones a saviour and another is also cited as unfortunate and another potential LVG replacement if/when Pep arrives at City.

Football is a ruthless results business, but the rule applies to the likes of Mourinho and others too.

StringerBell

Thepoet85 wrote: »

Classic And "Velocity" didn't even make the clip reel!

Pro. F

Sand wrote: »

The infamous long ball football press conference at the West Ham game last season. He made the mistake of trying to address the claim of long ball football with the media. Quickly realised he was talking to shaved chimps in t shirts and hasn't bothered since.

I wouldn't describe that as a proper debate, which is the term Doc used. It was fun for the fans and it was very brave of LVG, but a presentation is not a debate. All the evidence that I've seen and heard is that LVG is happy to lecture on football, but extremely unwilling to debate. Not that I'm saying that's necessarily a bad thing.

TheDoc

Pro. F wrote: »

What evidence do you have of this?

Ah there is loads. Of the top of my head

Gary Neville did an interview with him early into his reign for I believe The Times or The Guardian, and mentioned while there was an agreed time for the interview, it went an hour over as they debated tactics, and Van Gaal simply wouldn't leave and was enthralled discussing tactics, even going back onto previous United teams from how he saw them from managing elsewhere.

Last season the only female of the press pack asked specifically about the 3-5-2 and was maybe moving to a back four on the cards due to the problems in defence. He went into a good explanation about the defensive shape of the 3-5-2 and how he saw it as more resolute then a flat four to accomodate the attacking players he wanted.

an interview earlier this year with I want to say Henry Winter (or he might have re-tweeted it) had a really good breakdown of the two differing types of 4-3-3 he tends to use. He was specifically responding to a correction about his 4-3-3, indicating there is two types he likes.

There is also some countless stuff I've seen from youtube if times at Barca, Bayern and Az Alk where he happily held debates with his press packs about tactics.

There is also a video subtitled in Dutch, where he was invited to give a lecture basically about leadership and management, and a audience member question created a 40 minute lecture on the dutch team, squad and his tactics through qualifying.

I think its abundantly obvious to me taht Van Gaal will happily have discussions about tactics and players, at length, that are incredibly informative, but he really doesn't care for the drama and soap operate that the UK lads try to generate.

If I'm not mixing them up, the "need more creativity and speed" came from a tactical topic'd question that he went off on a mad one about what he had with Di MAria but then lost, and why its so important.

TheDoc

Pro. F wrote: »

I wouldn't describe that as a proper debate, which is the term Doc used. It was fun for the fans and it was very brave of LVG, but a presentation is not a debate. All the evidence that I've seen and heard is that LVG is happy to lecture on football, but extremely unwilling to debate. Not that I'm saying that's necessarily a bad thing.

OK debate might be the wrong word, I see thats what your clinging onto

Maybe a better term would be "having a discussion with the press where he is happy to go into some fine and informative details"

I'm not so sure that the united press core could actually house a intelligent debate on actual football if I'm honest. Some of the opinion pieces from them are absolutely horrendous and show a complete void of understanding of football outside of a 4-4-2

*EDIT

Like to maybe extrapolate what I'm trying to say, since Van Gaal arrived, there has been press conferences where I've genuinely come away learning something, or feeling smarter about my football, from just listening to him go into some details on things. Where most press conferences are drab affairs with press baiting for a quote or controversy, or managers being coy and cautious about revealing too much

Whatsisname