Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2015 - Mod Note Post 7373

Pro. F

TheDoc wrote: »

Ah there is loads. Of the top of my head

Gary Neville did an interview with him early into his reign for I believe The Times or The Guardian, and mentioned while there was an agreed time for the interview, it went an hour over as they debated tactics, and Van Gaal simply wouldn't leave and was enthralled discussing tactics, even going back onto previous United teams from how he saw them from managing elsewhere.

Last season the only female of the press pack asked specifically about the 3-5-2 and was maybe moving to a back four on the cards due to the problems in defence. He went into a good explanation about the defensive shape of the 3-5-2 and how he saw it as more resolute then a flat four to accomodate the attacking players he wanted.

an interview earlier this year with I want to say Henry Winter (or he might have re-tweeted it) had a really good breakdown of the two differing types of 4-3-3 he tends to use. He was specifically responding to a correction about his 4-3-3, indicating there is two types he likes.

There is also some countless stuff I've seen from youtube if times at Barca, Bayern and Az Alk where he happily held debates with his press packs about tactics.

There is also a video subtitled in Dutch, where he was invited to give a lecture basically about leadership and management, and a audience member question created a 40 minute lecture on the dutch team, squad and his tactics through qualifying.

I think its abundantly obvious to me taht Van Gaal will happily have discussions about tactics and players, at length, that are incredibly informative, but he really doesn't care for the drama and soap operate that the UK lads try to generate.

If I'm not mixing them up, the "need more creativity and speed" came from a tactical topic'd question that he went off on a mad one about what he had with Di MAria but then lost, and why its so important.

Yeah, I've seen or read all of the things you mention here. I'd call every one of them a lecture, and not a debate or discussion at all.

Sand

Pro. F wrote: »

Yeah, I've seen or read all of the things you mention here. I'd call every one of them a lecture, and not a debate at all.

Is there any example of a football manager you can cite who entered into a public "debate" with people who questioned them, i.e. the media?

Pro. F

TheDoc wrote: »

OK debate might be the wrong word, I see thats what your clinging onto

Maybe a better term would be "having a discussion with the press where he is happy to go into some fine and informative details"

I'm not so sure that the united press core could actually house a intelligent debate on actual football if I'm honest. Some of the opinion pieces from them are absolutely horrendous and show a complete void of understanding of football outside of a 4-4-2

*EDIT

Like to maybe extrapolate what I'm trying to say, since Van Gaal arrived, there has been press conferences where I've genuinely come away learning something, or feeling smarter about my football, from just listening to him go into some details on things. Where most press conferences are drab affairs with press baiting for a quote or controversy, or managers being coy and cautious about revealing too much

There's no clinging on to anything. You just used a poor description for what you were talking about and you've clarified it now.

Lord TSC

Jaysus, he walked right into that back page. Be interesting to see who else does it too....

TheDoc

You see that article. That is exactly what he is talking about, literally, what he said today, about context

Blamed the media for suggesting his job was on the line

No, he didn't. You absolute moronic capper. From a televised TV press conference, that you can literally misquote and take out of context his quotes, THAT WERE LITERALLY CRITICIZING HOW YOU TAKE HIS STUFF OUT OF CONTEXT

He blamed the media, for printing stories he was fired and other stories that indicated Mourinho had accepted an offer from United for the job.

Beggers belief

Sand

Lord TSC wrote: »

Jaysus, he walked right into that back page. Be interesting to see who else does it too....

What difference does that backpage make ultimately to LVG? If he wins the next 6 games on the trot, no one will care. If he loses the next 6 games on the trot he is sacked anyway.

The media is only important to the media at the end of the day. If LVG can get his players behind him and playing well, he is immune to anything they can say or do.

TheDoc

Pro. F wrote: »

There's no clinging on to anything. You just used a poor description for what you were talking about and you've clarified it now.

Thank you Professor : /

TheDoc

Lord TSC wrote: »

Jaysus, he walked right into that back page. Be interesting to see who else does it too....

I don't know. To be honest, I think depending how it goes, it might actually put strong support in Van Gaals camp "He was right, look at that ****e"

Like immediately I'm fuming over that Sun backpage, who thought they were being really clever, and proceeded to do the exact thing he was criticising them for.

It raises some massive questions about what do we accept as "fact" which is actually just someones opinion, that has taken a hold of being a fact.

Like for example, Van Gaal instructs his team to pass conservatively, and does not want players taking risks in one on one situations and the likes. I firmly believe that is someones opinion, that has transformed into what generally people accept as something that happens.

Rayne Wooney

It was inevitable the media turning on him wasn't it

They will go for the kill

The Moldy Gowl

I think TheDoc needs a hug.

Pro. F

Sand wrote: »

Is there any example of a football manager you can cite who entered into a public "debate" with people who questioned them, i.e. the media?

I can't think of any off the top of my head, and I'd say it's very rare, especially while they are employed.

Lord TSC

TheDoc wrote: »

I don't know. To be honest, I think depending how it goes, it might actually put strong support in Van Gaals camp "He was right, look at that ****e"

It will all depend on the result of the next game. Win, and it shuts them up. Lose, and the press will hark back to today as a sign of him losing the plot and making things worse.

There's a thin line between brave and stupid, and I think walking into the pressroom today, utterly ignoring the two questions asked, and lecturing the journalists (many of whom, I'd guess, had done little more than report the facts; I'm guessing the IndyKillas of the world weren't in the room) is always going to rile up the media. It was, imo, bad PR, and a stupid move. That was probably the easiest back page the paper has ever had to put together.

Sand

Pro. F wrote: »

I can't think of any off the top of my head, and I'd say it's very rare, especially while they are employed.

Agreed - whatever the exact terminology, I think it ought to be accepted that LVG is more willing to openly discuss his tactical approach and thinking (or "philosophy") than most other managers at his level are.

Lord TSC

Sand

Lord TSC wrote: »

It will all depend on the result of the next game. Win, and it shuts them up. Lose, and the press will hark back to today as a sign of him losing the plot and making things worse.

There's a thin line between brave and stupid, and I think walking into the pressroom today, utterly ignoring the two questions asked, and lecturing the journalists (many of whom, I'd guess, had done little more than report the facts; I'm guessing the IndyKillas of the world weren't in the room) is always going to rile up the media. It was, imo, bad PR, and a stupid move. That was probably the easiest back page the paper has ever had to put together.

It could also be a clever, calculated move. Rallies players and fans behind him and against the common enemy everyone despises - the fecking media.

Thats how it will be interpreted if United go on a run of wins over the Christmas anyway.

Hococop

Lord TSC wrote: »

God I hate the media

J. Marston

"Enjoy the wine and mince pies. Goodbye." = Stormed out.

Hope Louis spiked their wine and mince pies with extra-strength laxatives. Twats.

K-9

TheDoc wrote: »

Well Mitten indicated that if it was a brief, its from an unusual and not the norm contact within the hierarchy.

He was directly asked about how surely with all the stories this week, it read like a brief. He said he would normally receive such a brief. And the likely thing was that someone had a hunch and acted on it, and everyone else was being reactionary.

He went into some detail how he was been hounded by his editor and numerous people throughout the week, yet has nothing to tell them regarding the story, as hes received no indication of an imminent sacking.

The 2 game ultimatum seemed odd, there was rumours of that before Rodgers went so maybe it's the same journo! Don't think there was anything to that either, Rodgers was more clear cut than LVG for me. Probably something dreamt up on the odds it would be right and the others went with it. Its why I'm not convinced on the Pep to City stuff quite yet, there's a lot of second guessing going on there for me.

As for the presser, I'm not a big follower or believer in them, bit like after match ones were every word spoken is gone over in minutiae.

Nobody what LVG or any manager under pressure like he is now, it doesn't matter what you do. At least walking out is entertaining! Give a full hour one and they'll analyse everything to fcuk.

I do think he has to be under pressure after the CL exit and the recent run. The longer he stays while under pressure points to Pep being an option for me, Jose is just too easy and obvious.

blueser

Hococop wrote: »

God I hate the media

It's what the media do; they're vultures. They get a whiff of blood and they're swarming around to pick pieces off the carcass. Parasites. Pellegrini had to put up with similar sh1te today, being asked about Guardiola (possibly) taking over in the summer. He handled it a bit better than LVG, but neither of them should have to put up with that.

StringerBell

TheDoc wrote: »

You see that article. That is exactly what he is talking about, literally, what he said today, about context



No, he didn't. You absolute moronic capper. From a televised TV press conference, that you can literally misquote and take out of context his quotes, THAT WERE LITERALLY CRITICIZING HOW YOU TAKE HIS STUFF OUT OF CONTEXT

He blamed the media, for printing stories he was fired and other stories that indicated Mourinho had accepted an offer from United for the job.

Beggers belief

Shame the guy who wrote it didn't speak up during the press conference, might have got himself some good headlines then.

Vertigo100

The football must improve but I really like Mr. Louis Van Gaal. I really really hope he can turn this around and send a big **** you to everyone.

A great character.

Sand

StringerBell wrote: »

Shame the guy who wrote it didn't speak up during the press conference, might have got himself some good headlines then.

In fairness, I think its the sub editor who writes the attention grabbing headlines. The journalist who tips up to the press conference only gets to write the boring text of the article.

Maximus Alexander

Hococop wrote: »

God I hate the media

Tabloids, to be fair, rather than all of the media. Events like this are a good filter.

BBC avoided senstationalism by just lifting their article directly out of Football Manager 2016:

Louis van Gaal: Manchester United boss walks out of news conference

Under-pressure Manchester United manager Louis van Gaal answered only three questions before walking out of a news conference on Wednesday.

The 64-year-old Dutchman was unhappy at being asked about his future following speculation that he could be sacked.

bucketybuck

Sand wrote: »

So you would still back him managing Chelsea into a relegation battle? On the one hand you cant be calling for LVG to be sacked when he was topping the league 4 weeks ago, whilst defending Mourinho down in the relegation zone. Last season is last season.

Not at all, Chelsea were right to sack him. I simply don't believe that this season is representative of Mourinho as a manager, despite everything that happened there in the past 6 months he will probably still go to another club and win titles. Just as Van Gaal could go back to another Alkmar and do well or win titles, just because he has failed at Old Trafford does not mean he failed previously or is doomed to fail for evermore.

Jose messed up at Chelsea and deserved the sack. Van Gaal has utterly failed at United and should be replaced. Either of them could easily be successful elsewhere. I see nothing contradictory in anything I have said.

I stormed out of a restaurant tonight after addressing the server and host and thanking them for a lovely meal. I must have ranted on for about 2 minutes at them.

Lord TSC

StringerBell wrote: »

Shame the guy who wrote it didn't speak up during the press conference, might have got himself some good headlines then.

One guy tried to ask a question midway through and was ignored by LVG. What did you want, the journalists to shout him down? Their job is to report on the press conference, one which he made it clear he wasn't going to answer questions at, and which he was going to present his statement and then leave.

bucketybuck

Also, I don't know why people are getting worked up about these headlines. They are exactly what I predicted would happen 6 hours ago, that press conference was manna from heaven for the journalists and Van Gaal should have expected nothing else.

The problem is that they are not wrong. Why should the journalists apologise for our league position, our exit from the CL, our winless run or our boring football? People aren't going to read that and feel sympathy for Van Gaal, they are going to read it and think "they're right you know".

StringerBell

Utterly failed....

Not even a lingering doubt in your mind you may be jumping the gun there of course.

Sand

bucketybuck wrote: »

Not at all, Chelsea were right to sack him. I simply don't believe that this season is representative of Mourinho as a manager, despite everything that happened there in the past 6 months he will probably still go to another club and win titles. Just as Van Gaal could go back to another Alkmar and do well or win titles, just because he has failed at Old Trafford does not mean he failed previously or is doomed to fail for evermore.

Jose messed up at Chelsea and deserved the sack. Van Gaal has utterly failed at United and should be replaced. Either of them could easily be successful elsewhere. I see nothing contradictory in anything I have said.

"messed up" vs. "utterly failed". One sounds almost accidental. Mourinho took Chelsea down into a relegation battle and spent the last few months settling scores, real and imagined, rather than trying to fix the problem. LVG has "utterly failed" by United falling out of the top 4 on goal difference with 21 games to play? Cmon, there is two different standards being applied here. Especially if Mourinho is being suggested as a replacement for LVG despite not being the answer to any of the problems of LVG's reign.

bucketybuck

StringerBell wrote: »

Utterly failed....

Not even a lingering doubt in your mind you may be jumping the gun there of course.

Well I guess we could ignore every single thing in front of our eyes and just have faith that magically everything will just start working and we will look like a team again.

How long should we do this for, another 2 or 3 years, would that be long enough before we can finally call a spade a spade?

Gowlasauras Rex

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

I think TheDoc needs a hug.

Hes dead ****ing right though, I'm just as annoyed

Absolute laughing stock the media and amazingly what he said happened, ended up happening again

Gas thing is some of the lvg out gang will lap up this nonsense to further fuel the bull****
If it sells sure why not

I tell ya what, I hope this fires him up and pushes it into the players heads to cop the **** on and start playing with a bit of passion

StringerBell

Lord TSC wrote: »

One guy tried to ask a question midway through and was ignored by LVG. What did you want, the journalists to shout him down? Their job is to report on the press conference, one which he made it clear he wasn't going to answer questions at, and which he was going to present his statement and then leave.

Is it the guy who asked what they did wrong? I will watch again but I thought at the time he was answering that question by expanding on how he has already read this week that he has been sacked, that his colleague is already here in his place etc

As to what I wanted? I was happy with the press conference today. So wouldn't change much, if any of it at all tbh.

Edit: I actually caught toward the end of it on sky just there and he was interrupted by a journo and responded to him.

Maximus Alexander

I find it interesting that some of the same people can lambast Van Gaal for his handling of that conference, whilst at the same time hoping for this guy to take the reins:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygB7P7rg8u4

bucketybuck

Sand wrote: »

"messed up" vs. "utterly failed". One sounds almost accidental. Mourinho took Chelsea down into a relegation battle and spent the last few months settling scores, real and imagined, rather than trying to fix the problem. LVG has "utterly failed" by United falling out of the top 4 on goal difference with 21 games to play? Cmon, there is two different standards being applied here. Especially if Mourinho is being suggested as a replacement for LVG despite not being the answer to any of the problems of LVG's reign.

Van Gaal has utterly failed because 18 months into his reign he has never once come close to getting his team performing. If a manager can't get his team playing then he is a failure.

Mourinho didn't fail, he got his team playing and won the PL title. Then he ****ed it up and rightly lost his job. Sounds reasonable to me.

StringerBell

bucketybuck wrote: »

Well I guess we could ignore every single thing in front of our eyes and just have faith that magically everything will just start working and we will look like a team again.

How long should we do this for, another 2 or 3 years, would that be long enough before we can finally call a spade a spade?

His remit last season was to get CL football again - he succeeded.

We are 17 league games into this season so I am not confident enough to call it an utter failure, and since last season was a success I am not seeing why this spade is a spade yet?

To claim the man has utterly failed is just wrong at this point.

bucketybuck

StringerBell wrote: »

His remit last season was to get CL football again - he succeeded.

We are 17 league games into this season so I am not confident enough to call it an utter failure, and since last season was a success I am not seeing why this spade is a spade yet?

To claim the man has utterly failed is just wrong at this point.

Its like this place got some sort of stockholm syndrome since Moyes was appointed.

If you truly believe last season was successful then there isn't much I can say. I saw some of the most turgid gutless crap I have ever seen on a football field last season on our way to a glorious top four spot. That will never be success.

Sand

bucketybuck wrote: »

Van Gaal has utterly failed because 18 months into his reign he has never once come close to getting his team performing. If a manager can't get his team playing then he is a failure.

Mourinho didn't fail, he got his team playing and won the PL title. Then he ****ed it up and rightly lost his job. Sounds reasonable to me.

Didn't he have the best "top 6" record last season, including good wins away to Arsenal and Liverpool along with victories against City and Spurs and dominating Chelsea away.

Christ United tucked Liverpool away this season and fans were bemoaning not putting City to the sword so comfortable was the performance against that team that was apparently going to stroll to the title. Arsenal was the only game where United were truly blitzed. The Norwich defeat was hugely disappointing but its the first home defeat all season - christ, they were only the second and third goals conceded from open play all season IIRC.

There is a lot of revionism going on tbh. The team has some very poor results over the last few PL games, and exited the CL in disappointing fashion. That is about the height of it.

adox

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

I find it interesting that some of the same people can lambast Van Gaal for his handling of that conference, whilst at the same time hoping for this guy to take the reins:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygB7P7rg8u4

Yeah but no ones calling for Van Gaals head or Mourhino to be appointed based on their press conferences.

ricero

Hococop wrote: »

God I hate the media

If you think thats bad then you should see the back page of the rag that is the sun tomorrow

Sand

bucketybuck wrote: »

Its like this place got some sort of stockholm syndrome since Moyes was appointed.

If you truly believe last season was successful then there isn't much I can say. I saw some of the most turgid gutless crap I have ever seen on a football field last season on our way to a glorious top four spot. That will never be success.

It will, measured against finishing outside the top four.

Measured to 1999, every season since has been a crushing failure.

StringerBell

bucketybuck wrote: »

Its like this place got some sort of stockholm syndrome since Moyes was appointed.

If you truly believe last season was successful then there isn't much I can say. I saw some of the most turgid gutless crap I have ever seen on a football field last season on our way to a glorious top four spot. That will never be success.

His target was to get the club back in the CL

He achieved that target, no matter what dance you want to do around that it doesn't change that he succeeded in his task given to him by his employer.

Its nothing to do with my definition of a successful season, I don't employ him.

It doesn't matter what arbitrary targets you set for him either, once he is achieving the main aims the club gives him every year, he is quite a long way from an utter failure.

Sand

adox wrote: »

Yeah but no ones calling for Van Gaals head or Mourhino to be appointed based on their press conferences.

And certainly not on their recent results, attacking football, or command of the dressing room either.

Maximus Alexander

adox wrote: »

Yeah but no ones calling for Van Gaals head or Mourhino to be appointed based on their press conferences.

Fair point, I suppose. Although the below is an excellent retort.

Sand wrote: »

And certainly not on their recent results, attacking football, or command of the dressing room either.

bucketybuck

Sand wrote: »

There is a lot of revionism going on tbh. The team has some very poor results over the last few PL games, and exited the CL in disappointing fashion. That is about the height of it.

Complete and utter rubbish. If you are one of these that wants to paint all this as just a bad run of 5 or 6 games then we have nothing to discuss. We have been utter ****e for well over a year now and whatever you might think of my opinion at least I have been consistent in stating it for that length of time. Go search my posts if you are able, they are all there.

StringerBell wrote: »

It doesn't matter what arbitrary targets you set for him either, once he is achieving the main aims the club gives him every year, he is quite a long way from an utter failure.

No bother, you can be happy and merry with fourth, I'm just going to continue on wanting more from Manchester United.

bangkok

Arsenal apparently having talks with pep. I could actually see him going there

Maximus Alexander

bangkok wrote: »

Arsenal apparently having talks with pep. I could actually see him going there

I'd actually like to see that.

StringerBell

bucketybuck wrote: »

No bother, you can be happy and merry with fourth, I'm just going to continue on wanting more from Manchester United.

I don't often use this guy, but it feels appropriate :rolleyes:

SlickRic

It's quite obvious LVG was angry at them for speculating that he was about to be fired, and that José had been approached.

You only have to look at his post match interviews even this past weekend to realise he's happy to talk football, results, tactics, and how they're not working. He'll argue, but he will engage.

What he won't engage in, nor should anyone, is speculation about others being offered his job.

Fair play to him.

I think his days at Utd are numbered ultimately, but certain hacks in the room deserved a dressing down.

The English press, the majority of the time, deserve nothing but disdain. Someone asked what other managers had little respect for the press other than Fergie and Louis? Kenny Dalglish was another. He'd often treat them like idiots, especially when they asked speculative, moronic questions.

Sand

bucketybuck wrote: »

Complete and utter rubbish. If you are one of these that wants to paint all this as just a bad run of 5 or 6 games then we have nothing to discuss. We have been utter ****e for well over a year now and whatever you might think of my opinion at least I have been consistent in stating it for that length of time. Go search my posts if you are able, they are all there.

Grand, I admit I have been far less consistent. When United having been doing well, qualifying for the CL and getting good results I have been happy. When they having been doing badly, I have been unhappy. If you search my posts you'll find me defending Rooney at the start of the season based on his record and certain to finish his career as Uniteds top goal scorers. After 2 PL goals since August, I am less willing to defend Rooney on his record and less certain he will actually break the record. My opinion alters based on what happens.

Mitch Connor

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

I'd actually like to see that.

Unless you are an arsenal fan, that's insane.