I hate the M50 [Warning post #222]

Seth Brundle

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Do people forget how to drive over Christmas :pac:?

IMO, most people were unable to drive before Christmas :pac:

Dravokivich wrote: »

That has nothing to do with yesterday though. A lot of the M50 bridge was closed off. It's quite the pinch point on the M50 and the alternate routes to get around it.

Why was the bridge closed?
It's not a pinch point anyhow. there are as many lanes on it as there are on the sections before and after it!

Dravokivich

kbannon wrote: »

IMO, most people were unable to drive before Christmas :pac:


Why was the bridge closed?
It's not a pinch point anyhow. there are as many lanes on it as there are on the sections before and after it!

It was all closed Northbound.

Seth Brundle

Dravokivich wrote: »

It was all closed Northbound.

Cheers - hadn't realised that it was at/on the bridge itself - thought it was well before the bridge and you were referring to another incident.

emo72

Yesterday's closure added an hour to my commute. And I wasn't even on it! Today thinking lightning wouldn't strike twice, I sneaked onto it around 440 this evening, just in time for a red cow collision, looked bad though. And another accident around the same time at tallaght North bound. We need traffic corp to blitz on that road for a few months to concentrate people's minds.

Dravokivich

There was also an accident under the bridge at newlands cross too.

duffman3833

drove it again yesterday, just baffles me that nothing is been done to improve this. A 2hr journey took 3.5 hrs thanks to the m50. is there no plans put forward on this or we stuck with it now

Roadhawk

Traffic was grand on the M50 today.

I just dropped a car to Clongriffen from Greystones this morning and it took me 45 mins using the M50 going northbound. I then returned to Greystones using the DART and it took me just over an hour and a half?

veryangryman

Roadhawk wrote: »

Traffic was grand on the M50 today.

I just dropped a car to Clongriffen from Greystones this morning and it took me 45 mins using the M50 going northbound. I then returned to Greystones using the DART and it took me just over an hour and a half?

Schools and colleges are (nearly all) off and a good few taking holidays, loosens it a good 30% or so by my rough calculations.

I love Sean nos

If they figured out a way to charge drivers per lane change, that road would work a lot better.

Seth Brundle

I love Sean nos wrote: »

If they figured out a way to charge drivers per lane change, that road would work a lot better.

Why do you think some drivers change lanes quite a bit?

I love Sean nos

kbannon wrote: »

Why do you think some drivers change lanes quite a bit?

MGIF (Must Get In Front) mostly. There's no magic way of making progress on the M50, but if everyone stayed in their chosen lane for just that little bit longer, there would be less ****ty lane changes resulting in braking and phantom traffic jams.

Trebor176

There are the MGIF types, and there are the types that MUST get straight into the outside lane after entering the motorway. Then there are the combination of the above, but perhaps the reverse of the latter: I have to take this exit, but I'm in the outside lane. What should I do? I know, go across all the lanes, while trying to get as far ahead as possible, and then exit at the last second.

I used to see regular queue jumpers coming off at Ballymount southbound in the mornings. Things have improved there of late, but they are still MGIFs. The foot goes down, and they get as far ahead up the ramp before cutting in, or just before.

Seth Brundle

I love Sean nos wrote: »

There's no magic way of making progress on the M50, but if everyone stayed in their chosen lane for just that little bit longer, there would be less ****ty lane changes resulting in braking and phantom traffic jams.

A significant problem is that many people don't know what is the correct lane for them to be in so more often than not, "their chosen lane" is preventing others from making progress. This then encourages undertaking and other moves

First Up

kbannon wrote:

A significant problem is that many people don't know what is the correct lane for them to be in so more often than not, "their chosen lane" is preventing others from making progress. This then encourages undertaking and other moves

Agree. People sitting in the middle lane defeat the whole point of a three-lane motorway and force a lot of lane changing on others. But unfortunately it is a point that eludes a large percentage of Irish drivers.

I love Sean nos

kbannon wrote: »

A significant problem is that many people don't know what is the correct lane for them to be in so more often than not, "their chosen lane" is preventing others from making progress. This then encourages undertaking and other moves

I'd agree with that, but I see a lot of folks moving across all lanes and it's the bad lane changes that slow things down a lot.

Cookie_Monster

First Up wrote: »

Agree. People sitting in the middle lane defeat the whole point of a three-lane motorway and force a lot of lane changing on others. But unfortunately it is a point that eludes a large percentage of Irish drivers.

ah sure that lane is only for slow trucks
:rolleyes:

beauf

It may be controversial suggesting the extent, lane hoggers cause congestion. However, Benjamin Heydecker, professor of Transport Studies at the University College London, has looked at the impact it has. He says “We expected to find a big reduction in capacity. But the answer was surprisingly small.”
It is possible that drivers are looking at a three – lane motorway and assume that the middle lane is not in use. That would be true if the lane hoggers were stationary. But they are still moving relatively fast.
“They are moving, so if the traffic is concentrating behind them you still have flow.”
People who suggest that middle – lane hoggers cut capacity by a third are wrong...

Ronghui Liu, at the Institute for Transport Studies believes it ultimately depends on the level of traffic. At peak times, you ideally want traffic spread evenly between the 3 lanes, she argues.

The problem is too many cars.

veryangryman wrote: »

Schools and colleges are (nearly all) off and a good few taking holidays, loosens it a good 30% or so by my rough calculations.

..and hey presto...

I love Sean nos

I love Sean nos wrote: »

If they figured out a way to charge drivers per lane change, that road would work a lot better.

Many drivers join the motorway and jump directly into lane 2 and stay there, not a good idea to encourage that type of behaviour.

Ronghui Liu, at the Institute for Transport Studies believes it ultimately depends on the level of traffic. At peak times, you ideally want traffic spread evenly between the 3 lanes, she argues.

That is correct, but only really works when all the traffic is going at the same speed, all you need is one MLM (middle lane moron) who decided to do 10kmh slower than all the other traffic to cause chaos.

beauf

Wasn't there a plan or suggestion to lower the limits as it increases throughput at peak as it prevents concertina bunching.

magicbastarder

'how dare the authorities seek to limit me to 80km/h on a road i can only average 50km/h', etc. etc.

beauf

beauf wrote: »

Wasn't there a plan or suggestion to lower the limits as it increases throughput at peak as it prevents concertina bunching.

Hopefully they'll eventually implement variable speed limits, that's what the gantries were originally installed for.
Then the limits can be lowered during peak times and remain at 100 for the remainder of the time.

Sam Russell

Deleted User wrote: »

Hopefully they'll eventually implement variable speed limits, that's what the gantries were originally installed for.
Then the limits can be lowered during peak times and remain at 100 for the remainder of the time.

a
And if they add ANPR cameras at every on and off ramp, average speed limits could be enforced.

Sam Russell

Sam Russell wrote: »

a
And if they add ANPR cameras at every on and off ramp, average speed limits could be enforced.

Not really practicable with variable speed limits in force, you would need pairs of cameras along the motorway where they line up with the adjusted speed limits.

Sam Russell

Deleted User wrote: »

Not really practicable with variable speed limits in force, you would need pairs of cameras along the motorway where they line up with the adjusted speed limits.

No that is not so.

If I join the motorway and travel at the posted speed limit, and leave the motorway twenty minutes later, the I am OK but the little red sports car that overtook me and did the same journey in fifteen minutes would get bad news in the post.

They would not be looking for people going a few ks over but those driving dangerously over. The threat would be enough to get most to behave responsibly, and catching those who do not.

blackwhite

Sam Russell wrote: »

No that is not so.

If I join the motorway and travel at the posted speed limit, and leave the motorway twenty minutes later, the I am OK but the little red sports car that overtook me and did the same journey in fifteen minutes would get bad news in the post.

They would not be looking for people going a few ks over but those driving dangerously over. The threat would be enough to get most to behave responsibly, and catching those who do not.

I think the point is in relation to bringing in variable speed limits - so if there was a change in limit somewhere between where a car entered and exited the limit, then there would also need to be cameras at each of the limit change points - or new legislation to cover calculating a weighted average speed for a journey across an route with different limits on different parts of it.

Sam Russell

blackwhite wrote: »

I think the point is in relation to bringing in variable speed limits - so if there was a change in limit somewhere between where a car entered and exited the limit, then there would also need to be cameras at each of the limit change points - or new legislation to cover calculating a weighted average speed for a journey across an route with different limits on different parts of it.

There would be a change to legislation of course. However, it is quite simple to calculate the time taken to travel from one entry point to another exit point, taking into account the relevant speed limits in force at the particular time. If the limit changes during the particular transit of a motorist, then I would expect the higher speed limit would apply. How do the Port Tunnel charges apply - if I am travelling south and have been through the tunnel and arrive just as the lower fee applies, what do I pay?

I would not expect prosecutions to apply to small deviations - more for gross speeding.

blackwhite

Sam Russell wrote: »

There would be a change to legislation of course. However, it is quite simple to calculate the time taken to travel from one entry point to another exit point, taking into account the relevant speed limits in force at the particular time. If the limit changes during the particular transit of a motorist, then I would expect the higher speed limit would apply. How do the Port Tunnel charges apply - if I am travelling south and have been through the tunnel and arrive just as the lower fee applies, what do I pay?

I would not expect prosecutions to apply to small deviations - more for gross speeding.

Tunnel tolls apply when you cross the tolling point. It's simple single location - and completely different to having a law across a few locations

Using average speed between 2 points means that you would need to have a consistent limit between those two points, or if variable limits apply, then they'd need to treat each section of limit separately and measure cars at each change of limit.
Otherwise defence solicitors would have a field day

Sam Russell

blackwhite wrote: »

Tunnel tolls apply when you cross the tolling point. It's simple single location - and completely different to having a law across a few locations

Using average speed between 2 points means that you would need to have a consistent limit between those two points, or if variable limits apply, then they'd need to treat each section of limit separately and measure cars at each change of limit.
Otherwise defence solicitors would have a field day

All that is required is that the law is clear. Any algorithm that is used can be written into the legislation.

Sam Russell

Sam Russell wrote: »

All that is required is that the law is clear. Any algorithm that is used can be written into the legislation.

The problem will be when the fixed distance has different speed limits on it, the algorithm would need to factor in the lengths at each and every variable limit imposed, very complex and as already stated, a defence lawyer's field day in forcing the proof that a speeding offence actually took place and on which particular section of road.

The speed has to be consistent between the two average speed cameras to make any logical sense. The speed is able to be varied, but it must be the same at the start and the end of the controlled/monitored section for any enforcement to be valid.
This also means that they would need to be switched off for a few minutes every time the speed is varied to avoid ticketing anyone doing 100 when the limit is dropped to 80 and the car had already passed the gantry.