Have any of you sold a property in high negative equity?

womandriver

To be honest from reading your posts it doesn't sound like you can't pay your mortgage, it sounds like you don't want to. The apartment isn't worth as much as it was deemed to be worth in the boom so you want to wash your hands of it. Unfortunately the loan you signed up to and agreed to repay doesn't rise and fall with the value of your apartment, that wasn't the deal that you agreed to. And now you talk of buying a 2 bed even though you already have a child. How long do you think a two bed will be suitable for? The mind boggles at how some people's thought processes work. I guess those kind of considerations don't matter to people who intend to walk away from their debt when they can't be bothered with it after anymore.

God help people who are actually trying to get by when they're being landed with other's mortgage debt too. Some people need to grow up and deal with the consequences of their decisions or else grant a responsible adult power of attorney, as clearly some people shouldn't be trusted to make important decisions for themselves. Many people haven't had a pay rise in as many years not to mention the ones who have taken pay cuts. You shouldn't be factoring in expected future pay increases when you're calculating affordability of the mortgage you're considering taking out. And before someone mentions property tax and water charges, if they've pushed you over the edge, you couldn't afford it in the first place. What are you going to do if interest rates increase?

And it's just a thought, but maybe upskilling might be more useful when looking for a better paying job than networking.

riclad

Maybe you could post how much you paid for the apartment,
and what its worth now .
There are 1000,s of people living in homes that are worth less than the loan value as since 2007,
average home values declined by 50 per cent plus in dublin .The revenue classify anyone who rents out a home as a landlord .
Under the current system they do not care whether you are in negative equity or not .
Maybe you could post how much the monthly cost of the loan is .
i know there,s people out there who paid 350k for a home that is worth
150k now .
Are you sure the bank will help you to buy a 2 bed apartment or
is this going to be a home bought with the child,s mother .
IT sounds like you are living with someone and paying rent and renting out the apartment as the apartment is too small
for a couple with a child.

LilyShame

Wow, woman driver, you obviously live in a tiny little judgemental world. The peril of Boards. Obnoxious!

LilyShame

Riclad, in 90k NE. Correct, rented out and rented up. Had one child 2.5 years ago.
Yes realise there are others worse than me...I know people 200k in NE.

Have looked into things over the weekend. I will unlikely get support from the bank to buy-up. I will remain tenant for a long time to come by the looks of it. Have a meeting during the week so will see where it takes me.

again, still interested to hear from others who bought around the same time as me, who's situations changed and who have a story to tell.

thanks all

lima

What do you want exactly? You bought a property that's now worth less and you want your debts wiped?

Were you forced to buy a bad investment without planning for what-if's?

Tough luck mate, that's the way the cookie crumbles, life can be hard..


I hope you're paying tax on your rental income by the way

womandriver

LilyShame wrote: »

Wow, woman driver, you obviously live in a tiny little judgemental world. The peril of Boards. Obnoxious!

I live in the adult world where people with free will deal with the outcomes of their own decisions. Come join me and the other responsible adults living there as you're clearly not one of them.

The fact that you're even considering a 2 bed now mean you've learned absolutely nothing from your previous bad investment and would most likely do the same again given the chance. Luckily it doesn't appear the bank is going to let you.

Obviously anybody who doesn't think you should be walking away from your responsibilities is totally obnoxious... I wouldn't expect anything different based on your "poor me" posts thus far. And if it's judgemental to call someone out on their irresponsibility then so be it!

April 73

Over on Askaboutmoney.com you can post more financial details on your circumstances & get some practical advice.
You are stuck with the decisions of the past to an extent. Renting out the one-bed and renting a bigger place yourself isn't a bad thing to do - plenty of people are doing similar. Dont Rush into buying again.
Your first priority should be to sort out your tax affairs as the further behind you get, the worse it's going to be.
Have you done a spreadsheet up with all the outgoings on the apartment & the rental income? How much "profit" are you making each year? How many years into the mortgage are you? You should be starting to pay down some capital which will help erode the NE.

LilyShame

Now now woman driver, behave yourself. The Mods will be after me!!!

April, thanks for that tip re askaboutmoney, I have actually been searching it all this week and there are tonnes of people speaking (freely) on the same issue. There are a couple of posters helping people do the 'sums' of landlord expense long term vs selling and paying off the difference with an unsecured loan. You are right, I wont rush to do anything. It is v unlikely the lender will help there anyway. Yep I have done up a s.sheet with the ingoings and outgoings and I got a valuation yesterday. The apt is 80k in NE and unlikely to change anytime soon. It is apparent that some banks are indeed doing deals. I have met with MABs re budgeting and they are acting as my advocate when dealing with my lender going forward. They seem to be dealing with similar cases ongoing where the owner is requested to go on an Investors Mortgage and MABs are advocating that the person is not an 'investor'. My main bug-bear with this whole situation really.

again I say, if others have been down this road, I and many like me are interested to hear your experience..

riclad

I think the reason he,s renting out the 1 bed is its too small for 2 people and a child to live in,
it was not bought as an investment .
IN the boom people just wanted to buy a place to live ,
prices were going up every year.
Most people did not expect a crash or decline of 50 per cent in house values .He is an accidental landlord .
There,s 1000 s of people in the same situation .

LilyShame

that is correct Riclad. Bought as a single person in 2006. Then met someone and had a child. We would have sold up only I couldnt, not without owing the bank an awful lot of money, circa 120k. The Bubble was illegal, way beyond what anyone would have ever expected and we all know why this happened. I ended up a tenant myself. What happened here is wrong...regardless of peoples views on property being about choice....the Bubble was illegal. The little guy left to pay the price. Yes, thousands in the same boat. Speak up!! Provision needs to be made for it.

riclad

I,m angry at the civil servants, regulators, people who work in the dept of finance rather than someone who bought one apartment .
Also bankers who caused the crisis ,lending out large loans to certain person,s to buy bank shares ,and hide the real financial situation of the banks .
and who pushed up house prices by lending 110 per cent mortgages .
Many of these bankers ,and civil servants are retired now on large pensions .
And now the irish tax payer is left paying the bill and the bondholders all got paid.
Thats why we need a good banking regulator and strict lending limits
otherwise in 10 years time we could have another boom, bust in the housing market.
The banks have shown they cannot be trusted to act in a prudent manner
when it comes to loans for housing .

Fol20

Lily shame. I sympathise with your situation as it could have happened to anyone, however it's only yourself to blame for the situation. You were the person that decided to take out the loan even if it was well above your limit. You need to take responsibility for your actions. Again I do sympathise as if you were a few years older or younger your situation would have turned out differently but that's life I suppose.

Wanderer78

riclad wrote: »

I,m angry at the civil servants, regulators, people who work in the dept of finance rather than someone who bought one apartment .
Also bankers who caused the crisis ,lending out large loans to certain person,s to buy bank shares ,and hide the real financial situation of the banks .
and who pushed up house prices by lending 110 per cent mortgages .
Many of these bankers ,and civil servants are retired now on large pensions .
And now the irish tax payer is left paying the bill and the bondholders all got paid.
Thats why we need a good banking regulator and strict lending limits
otherwise in 10 years time we could have another boom, bust in the housing market.
The banks have shown they cannot be trusted to act in a prudent manner
when it comes to loans for housing .

or maybe we just need our own bloody banks. dreadful system! wait for the bank bail ins!

LilyShame

Maybe there is a creative solution to this... So many are homeless, I heard the shocking statistics at weekend as to the numbers of people going homeless every week. It seems it can affect those you would never imagine becoming homeless in the first place. Look at all the one-bed apartments let out by FTBs in NE - there are many who would gladly move in to one of these. Indeed I think a charity owns one of the one beds next to mine.....

groovyg

LilyShame wrote: »

that is correct Riclad. Bought as a single person in 2006. Then met someone and had a child. We would have sold up only I couldnt, not without owing the bank an awful lot of money, circa 120k. The Bubble was illegal, way beyond what anyone would have ever expected and we all know why this happened. I ended up a tenant myself. What happened here is wrong...regardless of peoples views on property being about choice....the Bubble was illegal. The little guy left to pay the price. Yes, thousands in the same boat. Speak up!! Provision needs to be made for it.

The bubble was illegal !!!! that doesn't make sense

riclad

Certain bankers made have done some illegal acts ,
by hiding the true state of the banks share value or the true value of its loans.
The problem we had people were being told prices will rise,for the next 10 years.
joe bloggs in working in tesco on a basic wage was getting a loan to buy a council house for 250k,
or a house in cavan for 200k .
The value of house ,s was purely set by bankers ,
who were on a bonus scheme.
I need x amount of new loans to get a large bonus from aib,tsb etc
The regulator did not put in rules you can borrow say 3-4 times income for
a ftb mortgage,as done in other countrys.
Irish banks had acess to a lot of capital since we joined the euro .
I,d prefer the lending rulles for housing to be strict than to
see another house price crash in the future .
Since every taxpayer pays the cost even
the people were were careful and never took out large loans based on rising
house price,s .
There,s books you can read about the boom which go in detail as to who is responsible,for the crash.
i think most of the bankers were simply greedy and stupid and reckless, more than out to commit fraud.

womandriver

riclad wrote: »

Certain bankers made have done some illegal acts ,
by hiding the true state of the banks share value or the true value of its loans.
The problem we had people were being told prices will rise,for the next 10 years.
joe bloggs in working in tesco on a basic wage was getting a loan to buy a council house for 250k,
or a house in cavan for 200k .
The value of house ,s was purely set by bankers ,
who were on a bonus scheme.
I need x amount of new loans to get a large bonus from aib,tsb etc
The regulator did not put in rules you can borrow say 3-4 times income for
a ftb mortgage,as done in other countrys.
Irish banks had acess to a lot of capital since we joined the euro .
I,d prefer the lending rulles for housing to be strict than to
see another house price crash in the future .
Since every taxpayer pays the cost even
the people were were careful and never took out large loans based on rising
house price,s .
There,s books you can read about the boom which go in detail as to who is responsible,for the crash.
i think most of the bankers were simply greedy and stupid and reckless, more than out to commit fraud.

There seems to be a complete lack of any sense of personal responsibility in this thread. The bankers didn't force anyone to take out a loan. If they did, how come some of us managed to escape?

Anyone who thought prices were going to continue rising and they'd make a fast buck on a one bed obviously didn't realise that bubbles burst and they should have done a bit more research themselves of international property bubbles instead of expecting everyone else to do it for them.

The Central bank rules you outline above are now in place and there are numerous people on here looking for ways to circumvent them.

Some people cannot be trusted to make these kind of decisions. They are unwilling or unable to do their own research and want to blame everyone else when it goes belly up.

Keep patting each other on the back and blaming the bankers and it'll all be fine... We know it wasn't your fault etc. etc. Sure how could you have known a one bed in the bad part of town was a bad investment for someone who might like to settle down and have a child in the future....

lima

womandriver wrote: »

There seems to be a complete lack of any sense of personal responsibility in this thread. The bankers didn't force anyone to take out a loan. If they did, how come some of us managed to escape?

Anyone who thought prices were going to continue rising and they'd make a fast buck on a one bed obviously didn't realise that bubbles burst and they should have done a bit more research themselves of international property bubbles instead of expecting everyone else to do it for them.

The Central bank rules you outline above are now in place and there are numerous people on here looking for ways to circumvent them.

Some people cannot be trusted to make these kind of decisions. They are unwilling or unable to do their own research and want to blame everyone else when it goes belly up.

Keep patting each other on the back and blaming the bankers and it'll all be fine... We know it wasn't your fault etc. etc. Sure how could you have known a one bed in the bad part of town was a bad investment for someone who might like to settle down and have a child in the future....

All I hear from those type of people is:

'de banks de banks, blah blah' - always pushing the blame for their bad decisions and not taking personal responsibility. Arrogant entitled Irish psyche that some people have..

LilyShame

There are, by the read of it, alot of very annoyed, not-in-negative-equity, people living on Boards!! And there was me thinking I was the only annoyed one. It seems we are all annoyed. Actually, i think I might be less annoyed than some of you!!

Anyway, thanks for all the comments.

I am still very interested to hear from those first time buyers who bought around 2006 (apts), who are now renters themselves and how, or if, they have managed to sell.

Have any of you sold a property in high (circa 80k+) negative equity? What happened, where did you seek help, did you come out of it alive, etc etc.

LilyShame

ps, just noticed some people have private messaged me with some insights, very helpful.

riclad

I understand there are strict lending limits in place now ,for house mortgage loans .
I was commenting as to the cause,s of the boom,bust ,
and who is responsible for it.
There were a lot of people who bought costly btl house,s ,
they presumed that they could make a large profit from a future rise in value .
ie prices could never fall .
Even in the boom the the rent was lower than the rental income in many places.

lima

LilyShame wrote: »

There are, by the read of it, alot of very annoyed, not-in-negative-equity, people living on Boards!! And there was me thinking I was the only annoyed one. It seems we are all annoyed. Actually, i think I might be less annoyed than some of you!!

Anyway, thanks for all the comments.

I am still very interested to hear from those first time buyers who bought around 2006 (apts), who are now renters themselves and how, or if, they have managed to sell.

Have any of you sold a property in high (circa 80k+) negative equity? What happened, where did you seek help, did you come out of it alive, etc etc.

What help are you looking for? There is strong demand for property right now. If you sell, you have to pay the rest of the 80k you owe the bank. That's no one else's business but your own. It's your personal debt that you have to pay. You can't weasel out of it.

womandriver

lima wrote: »

What help are you looking for? There is strong demand for property right now. If you sell, you have to pay the rest of the 80k you owe the bank. That's no one else's business but your own. It's your personal debt that you have to pay. You can't weasel out of it.

She wants people to tell her she shouldn't have to pay back the full loan that she took out and the helpful tips she's looking for are clearly how she can go about this. The best tip she'll get in her life is to not to make large totally unsuitable purchases she can't afford to pay for.

womandriver

LilyShame wrote: »

There are, by the read of it, alot of very annoyed, not-in-negative-equity, people living on Boards!! And there was me thinking I was the only annoyed one. It seems we are all annoyed. Actually, i think I might be less annoyed than some of you!! etc.

Yeah it's kinda annoying listening to people who made very foolish purchases now trying to blame others for it and land other people with their debt.

Yes, if I was you, I'd be very annoyed at the very short-signed, poorly thought out decision to buy an over priced one bed apartment in a bad part of town.

lima

womandriver wrote: »

Yeah it's kinda annoying listening to people who made very foolish purchases now trying to blame others for it and land other people with their debt.

Yes, if I was you, I'd be very annoyed at the very short-signed, poorly thought out decision to buy an over priced one bed apartment in a bad part of town.

Thankfully I'm not in negative equity nor am I annoyed.. actually I bought an apt a year ago and the same ones are selling for 50k more now

LilyShame

lima & womandriver, I am not asking you for any help. You clearly have your own views and are not in this situation so I dont expect you to offer anything. It seems in your view that 100s of thousands of people back in 2005-2006 were all wrong to want to enter the first wrung of the ladder.

It is now very clear to me that very few FTBs in NE will post to this particular forum for fear of punishment by a small minority posting here deploying bully-boy tactics. I do hope those in far deeper NE than me, who may have mental health issues as a result, who are in this stressful position, do not come to this hostile virtual environment. It might just send them over the Edge.

I am simply reaching out to those WHO ARE in the same situation as me. I am interested to understand how they engaged with their bank and positively moved forward from their situation. Thats if they are brave enough to respond online. Which they should be allowed to do.

In the meantime, some good threads up on askaboutmoney in the NE case study section, for those who may be researching this.

Cheers

lima

LilyShame wrote: »

lima & womandriver, I am not asking you for any help. You clearly have your own views and are not in this situation so I dont expect you to offer anything. It seems in your view that 100s of thousands of people back in 2005-2006 were all wrong to want to enter the first wrung of the ladder.

It is now very clear to me that very few FTBs in NE will post to this particular forum for fear of punishment by a small minority posting here deploying bully-boy tactics. I do hope those in far deeper NE than me, who may have mental health issues as a result, who are in this stressful position, do not come to this hostile virtual environment. It might just send them over the Edge.

I am simply reaching out to those WHO ARE in the same situation as me. I am interested to understand how they engaged with their bank and positively moved forward from their situation. Thats if they are brave enough to respond online. Which they should be allowed to do.

In the meantime, some good threads up on askaboutmoney in the NE case study section, for those who may be researching this.

Cheers

The advice being offered is to not expect sympathy for a financial mistake you made. Tough luck bud.

relax carry on

LilyShame wrote: »

lima & womandriver, I am not asking you for any help. You clearly have your own views and are not in this situation so I dont expect you to offer anything. It seems in your view that 100s of thousands of people back in 2005-2006 were all wrong to want to enter the first wrung of the ladder.

It is now very clear to me that very few FTBs in NE will post to this particular forum for fear of punishment by a small minority posting here deploying bully-boy tactics. I do hope those in far deeper NE than me, who may have mental health issues as a result, who are in this stressful position, do not come to this hostile virtual environment. It might just send them over the Edge.

I am simply reaching out to those WHO ARE in the same situation as me. I am interested to understand how they engaged with their bank and positively moved forward from their situation. Thats if they are brave enough to respond online. Which they should be allowed to do.

In the meantime, some good threads up on askaboutmoney in the NE case study section, for those who may be researching this.

Cheers

Take all of what has happened as a life lesson. Perhaps one good thing to come out of the disaster that was the housing bubble is that people may now carry out more checks themselves on the pros and cons of property ownership and realise that it is not without its own risks.

womandriver

relax carry on wrote: »

Take all of what has happened as a life lesson. Perhaps one good thing to come out of the disaster that was the housing bubble is that people may now carry out more checks themselves on the pros and cons of property ownership and realise that it is not without its own risks.

The worrying thing is that there are people out there who haven't learned a thing and would do it all again given half a chance. Some people need protecting from themselves.

womandriver

LilyShame wrote: »

lima & womandriver, I am not asking you for any help. You clearly have your own views and are not in this situation so I dont expect you to offer anything. It seems in your view that 100s of thousands of people back in 2005-2006 were all wrong to want to enter the first wrung of the ladder.

It is now very clear to me that very few FTBs in NE will post to this particular forum for fear of punishment by a small minority posting here deploying bully-boy tactics. I do hope those in far deeper NE than me, who may have mental health issues as a result, who are in this stressful position, do not come to this hostile virtual environment. It might just send them over the Edge.

I am simply reaching out to those WHO ARE in the same situation as me. I am interested to understand how they engaged with their bank and positively moved forward from their situation. Thats if they are brave enough to respond online. Which they should be allowed to do.

In the meantime, some good threads up on askaboutmoney in the NE case study section, for those who may be researching this.

Cheers

Maybe others just have more cop on than to come on a public forum to ask Joe Soap, who is paying his own mortgage, how to go about getting yours written off.

There's no place for playing the mental health card in normal commercial transactions, a legally binding contact was entered in to. Are we expecting banks to require a mental health assessment now with loan applications in case someone claims repaying it is contrary to their mental health and wellbeing?