Is this a stupid reason to break up?

LegacyUser

I've been with my boyfriend for more than a year, he's wonderful and we get on extremely well. We've had ups and downs like everyone else but I love him to pieces and I am 100% sure he feels the same.

The only cloud for me is that he's separated. He and his exwife had a child very early in the relationship and got married after a couple of years later, it only lasted a short time and then it ended. I'm completely sure it's over and he has no interest in her.

My problem is that I've always wanted to get married and have a family. I know I would have to wait years for him to divorce her if he even does though he has said he will.
I just feel so jealous that hes shared the big traditional wedding with someone else and we could never have that. All those memories are only with her and I'm just a girlfriend and will stay that way for years.

Everything we can do is on a timeline of his old relationship - we can't even get engaged until we are together for years because of it!
Even then I will always feel second best, I know no one will have the same enthusiasm for his second marriage and I already feel like he wouldn't be with me if she had wanted to stay married.

I really do love him and wish I could get past this but I don't know how.

LegacyUser

It's wholly understandable for you to feel this way, you're mourning what is -for the vast majority of girls- the loss of the ultimate romantic fantasy. Having the white wedding is seen as an achievement , a victory of sorts- "look everyone, I'm worth it, he's put a ring on it".
Now what you have to figure out is, is this man on his own enough for you?
Whilst you might meet another man who hasn't been married, you'd be hard pressed to meet a man in his 30s (I'm assuming that's his age) who hadn't baggage. Would you prefer a guy with a history of one/many long-term relationships committment-free, or the man you have, who once valued a woman enough to be man enough to "put a ring on it"?

Ursus Horribilis

If it is the only reason, then you are throwing away a perfectly good relationship for irrational reasons. I don’t know what age you are but as you get older, it’s going to get harder and harder to find a man who hasn’t got this sort of “baggage”. You didn’t mention his child in all of this – how do you feel about being a step parent? If you want to call a child "baggage", then I would consider it to be a far bigger issue than his previous trip down the aisle.

What I’m wondering is why you got together with him if you’ve got such an issue with him having been married before. You clearly do. The jealousy and resentment is all over this post. Not to mention some paranoia. You also sound incredibly insecure. You’re going on about being “just a girlfriend” and that all his memories of a big wedding are with her. That he’s not going to be as enthusiastic about a second wedding.

You’re also talking about the timeline of this in “years” – it might as well be decades the way you’re going on. How long is he split up from his wife? They can get divorced after five four years. In the meantime you could continue to work at the relationship and get to know each other better. There’s nothing to stop you moving in together and making plans to marry when his divorce comes through. You could have children in the meantime if that’s what you want. Why should you let someone else from his past dictate YOUR life? That’s what is happening and you’re letting it.

Have you ever talked to him about this? If so, what did he have to say?

On the other hand, if this is eating you up then yes you'd be better off splitting up sooner rather than later. It's going to eventually destroy the relationship anyway.

detoxkid

You are sure about the things that matter. It is over, he has no interest in her, he adores you. That would be enough for me if you adore him too. Unfortunately his past it will always be in your life but as the others have said, everyone has a past and I'd imagine its not uncommon. Id look at what kind of daddy he is because that is so important. He should be there for his child. Weddings are great but the important thing is that you are sure that the person you are with is the right one for you.

fits

Dffffc wrote: »

It's wholly understandable for you to feel this way, you're mourning what is -for the vast majority of girls- the loss of the ultimate romantic fantasy. Having the white wedding is seen as an achievement , a victory of sorts- "look everyone, I'm worth it, he's put a ring on it".
?

Oh come off it.

OP I completely understand where you are coming from. He's had the wedding and his first child with this other woman who will always have a hold over him in some way. It will never be just the two of you. Baggage is somewhat inevitable the older you get.

Here's the thing though, you can still have children with him if that's what you both want. You don't have to wait until he is divorced. You also can still have a wedding either a fake one now and legal later, or wait until the divorce comes through. Things don't need to be done in the traditional way anymore. It would be easy to have a wedding type party without a legal marriage (many people do this already)

Ursus Horribilis

In terms of the wedding itself, you can still have a reasonably traditional one if that's what you want. I was at a humanist wedding and it was almost like a church one apart from the prayers. I take it you're not overly religious, otherwise you'd not be with a separated man in the first place.

Dial Hard

Odus fell down wrote:

They can get divorced after 5 years

Four, actually, if they've been continously separated for that long (e.g. no periods of reconciliation)

fits wrote:

You also can still have a wedding either a fake one now and legal later, or wait until the divorce comes through. Things don't need to be done in the traditional way anymore. It would be easy to have a wedding type party without a legal marriage (many people do this already)

They can have a massive traditional white wedding after his divorce if they want, just not in a church.

OP, your fixation on the fact that you feel somehow done out of your dream wedding is a little odd to me. The fact that he has a child with this woman is a far more permanent link to her than the fact that they were married. Yet you haven't really mentioned that at all.

And what about his feelings in all of this? Have you discussed marriage? Does he even want to get married again?

I don't know, it just seems like you're more concerned about the wedding than the actual marriage part. And I can tell you which is the more important of the two.

meeeeh

It really depends how much importance you place on to one day. But yes OP if you love the wedding itself more than your partner then you should definitely split up.

Unlike previous posters I can't say I have any understanding for your thinking. He has a child and yet you 're not a bit worried about anything to do with a step child (which would be prudent consideration), you're worried that people around him won't be as excited second time round. I actually think you have to grow up first before you get married.

Meauldsegosha

Amistupid wrote: »

I know no one will have the same enthusiasm for his second marriage

Surely what's important is that you and your partner are enthusiastic about your marriage, not what other people think.

Personally, if I loved someone to pieces our relationship and marriage would be more important then a wedding day.

LegacyUser

Hi thanks for replies!!!

Odus fell down- Yes you're right I am very jealous and if I'd known I would feel this way I wouldn't have become involved with him. They are only split for a couple of years so there is still some to go before they can even file for divorce, from what I've read waiting for the divorce itself can take a year or more as well. We have talked about moving in together and we have talked about children etc which we are both open too if this becomes a permenant relationship which to me is getting married- which is dictated by his previous relationship. I don't want someone from his past dictating my life but the fact is they are still a "we" in legal terms and he claims separating is too expensive. I have tried to talk to him but he doesn't hear me. He said there's no reason to be insecure as he wouldn't go back to her and can't see any of the other issues.

Detoxkid- he is a very good dad it's his best trait!! I would be delighted if my children were lucky enough to have a dad like him.

Dialhard- Im not fixated on the wedding day at all, I've never really wanted a big wedding anyway but yes I did always want a church wedding though i know a blessing is possible instead. I think part of it is that it's such a waste! The marriage only lasted a year and yet he is stuck for life on a woman who DID care more about the day then the marriage. Divorce in Ireland is never final and she can always come back for more.

In relation to the child I have no animosity at all, I haven't met them yet but it's not an issue. He didn't choose to have a child with her she announced a pregnancy within a few months of meeting him and he is definitely the type of man that would do the right thing and be there for his child.
Part of my concern is that I worry about his decision making. I wonder why he chose to marry someone who had so little care for him she walked away leaving him homeless and in thousands of euros of debt, there's two sides to every story but her behaviour in general is very selfish and cold and still she was who he wanted to spend his life with!

bee06

Meauldsegosha wrote: »

Personally, if I loved someone to pieces our relationship and marriage would be more important then a wedding day.

Totally agree. OP, do you actually see yourself long term with his man? If someone had told me I couldn't have a wedding with my husband I'd would still be with him. I would have got married wearing a black plastic bag if I had to. The wedding isn't the important bit. It's only one day and the marriage is for a lifetime (hopefully)

maryfred

Few points: as someone has said he can get a divorce after 4 years if certain conditions are met. You're together over a year,i'm assuming he was separated a while before ye got together so that's nearly half way there.
Ye can get engaged any time ye like. His divorce doesn't have to be through for ye to start planning and saving for a wedding even if you want to wait a while to officially announce.
The only part of the traditional wedding you can't do is the church wedding. Everything else is the same.
If you've read enough of the threads in this forum,you'll soon discover that enthusiasm for a wedding can be very hit and miss,doesn't matter if it's first,second or whatever type of wedding.
My husband was married before,doesn't make me second best,he's my husband,i'm his wife. If I thought like that I wouldn't have married him.
Stop with the "waiting years" and "second best" stuff. All a bit dramatic. I don't know how young you are,but you're together a very short time. Value yourself more,you're more than just a girlfriend,you're the woman he loves.
Sorry for the long post.

Daisy78

Op has he expressed an interest in getting married again? To be honest, whilst I'm sure he is a nice guy his circumstances aren't great and it's a lot for you to take on. He might be happy out with a having a girlfriend on a casual basis without ever committing to anything more. He has been there and done that, has his kid and might have no interest in going down that road again. I had a friend in your situation and the whole relationship dragged on for years until he eventually admitted that he wasn't going to take it further. I think you are right to be a bit cautious. I think you need to have a chat with and explain how you feel, otherwise it will eat away at you. You need to know where you stand.

nikkibikki

Opagain wrote:

I don't want someone from his past dictating my life but the fact is they are still a "we" in legal terms and he claims separating is too expensive. I have tried to talk to him but he doesn't hear me.

Hang on OP. Is he actually currently legally seperated?

njs030

nikkibikki wrote: »

Hang on OP. Is he actually currently legally seperated?

There's no need for a legal separation, you can just wait 4 years and divorce instead as long as both people agree the date the marriage broke down.
It's sensible to have a legal separation in some ways because a lot can change during the 4 year wait- like meeting someone new, more children being born to either person etc- but they can be very expensive if both parties don't agree, and paying again for a divorce a few years later might seem redundant if someone is set on divorce asap anyway.

It doesn't affect the op either way because her boyfriend can still file for divorce 4 years to the day his marriage ended.

LegacyUser

wrote:

HE didn't choose to have a child with her she announced a pregnancy within a few months of meeting him and he is definitely the type of man that would do the right thing and be there for his child.

I'm assuming she didn't drug or hypnotise him into having sex- if he didn't want to have a baby he should've been more responsible with contraception.

wrote:

Part of my concern is that I worry about his decision making. I wonder why he chose to marry someone who had so little care for him she walked away leaving him homeless and in thousands of euros of debt, there's two sides to every story but her behaviour in general is very selfish and cold and still she was who he wanted to spend his life with!

Just be sure marriage is what he wants.
I'm divorcing next year and while I acknowledge it works for lots, I absolutely will never marry again.
And if I met someone who wanted it I quite simply would think twice about the relationship.

You need to prioritise if you want to have a longterm successful relationship with this man.
Be careful about labelling her as selfish and cold- she is the mother of his child and always will be.If it got back to her that her ex's girlfriend was saying such and such, it might affect their relationship which would inevitably affect yours.
He will always and forever have a relationship with the ex wife because of their child, so it is in your interests to facilitate this by stepping back and letting him rear his child with her.
That's more important than a potential wedding which is a mere day out of a lifetime of what should be happiness.

Ursus Horribilis

Maybe I'm wrong here but I get the impression there's something of a communication breakdown here. I wonder are both of you really hearing what the other one is saying?

I know very little about separations and divorces so anything I say carries a health warning. Other posters - feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
You say that when his marriage ended, his wife left him homeless and thousands of Euros in debt. You don't sound like you're too convinced by his argument that legally separating is too expensive. If he's right and that he can simply wait the 4 years to get divorced, why would you push him into paying over this money now?

I'm a bit concerned that you've not met his child yet. Is there any reason why?

Your last paragraph is very harsh in my opinion. You've said that "he is definitely the type of man that would do the right thing and be there for his child". Then you knock him for having married even though his ex wasn't a nice person. Many relationships aren't as cut and dried as what you're laying out. We don't know why your boyfriend married his ex but I can think of loads of reasons why. People can make awful decisions because they're in the middle of situations and can't see the wood from the trees. Again, you're letting your negativity and paranoia over his past relationship over-rule everything.

Dial Hard

Opagain wrote:

The marriage only lasted a year and yet he is stuck for life on a woman who DID care more about the day then the marriage. Divorce in Ireland is never final and she can always come back for more.

He'd be "stuck" with her for life even if they'd never married by virtue of the fact that they have a child together. Even the language you're using about the situation indicates how fixated on the fact that they were married are.

And there is no "second bite of the cherry" when it comes to divorce in Ireland - that's a direct quote from my solicitor when we were discussing my own separation and divorce. So I don't know where you're getting that idea. If orders are made for maintenance then yes, either party can seek to have them adjusted over the years but once assets are divided and disposed of, there's no changing your mind a few years later cause you think you could have got more at the time.

I think your self-confessed jealousy issues are the real issue here, OP - you resent that someone else got all these "firsts" with him. But that's just life, I'm afraid. Nobody comes in a hermetically sealed bubble and the fact of the matter is that all that he has done and been through and the decisions he made have made him into the man you love.

I'm only 33 and my divorce should be through before Christmas. I'd hate to think that someone would have as much of an issue with the fact that I've been married as you do with him.

Colser

To be very honest OP I think you have to walk away from this.If you are this cut up about it now imagine how you will be down the line with birthdays ,communion ,confirmation ect you wont be able to handle it all and it will cause major problems in the relationship.
Bottom line is that he will ALWAYS have a connection and communication with her due to the child. She will ALWAYS be his first wife and the mother of his child.
I dont think divorce and marriage would make any real difference to you as you seem like someone who will always have doubts and will worry about him meeting her ect.
I can fully understand how you feel btw,some people can handle these situations better than others but for someone like you I think the best thing you can do for yourself is end it now. I know youre saying your issue is a church wedding ect. but I think its more the fact he has an ex and a child and nothing will ever change that fact.

meeeeh

Opagain wrote: »

Part of my concern is that I worry about his decision making. I wonder why he chose to marry someone who had so little care for him she walked away leaving him homeless and in thousands of euros of debt, there's two sides to every story but her behaviour in general is very selfish and cold and still she was who he wanted to spend his life with!

You do realize he also made a decision to date you. I am not being nasty, I am trying to put things into perspective. 37 years old me thinks I was a very stupid and naive at 22. I made some poor choices then but I made a very good relationship decision five years later.

I think you resent him his past and I also think you are fairly impatient to get married, have kids... that is perfectly natural and there is nothing wrong with that but you do need to find out if he is on the same page as you. You haven't met his child yet and there is nothing wrong with that. Still that would offer some additional reassurance that he has long term plans with you.

Ursus Horribilis

You know what? It doesn't matter what any of us say to you or what rational arguments you read. If your boyfriend's past makes you feel jealous and insecure and resentful, then it's not a stupid reason to break up. It's your relationship, not ours. If this is the way you honestly feel, then ending it is the right thing to do. It's significant that you titled this thread "Is this a stupid reason to break up?". Not "I resent his past" or something along those lines.

zeffabelli

Op,

1. Be careful of taking anything but a neutral position in relation to his wife. Don't forget the story is being transmitted through him. That you are clearly already assigning negative character assessment will invite trouble not just for you but the entire family because you are bringing that anxiety and negativity to the table.

2. I recoil when I hear he didn't plan the child she just one day announced she was pregnant. This was not an immaculate conception and when I hear that I hear here is a man who is shaking off his part in the creation of a human being. This would signal big fat alarm bells for me.

3. I'd be very careful about reigning in your dreams before actually getting a sense of the dynamic of being a step mother and also having this child in your life.

4. Remember you are choosing to get involved with a man who is big free to marry. This is your choice.

5. Even when and if they do divorce, because of the child they will always in some sense be married. The culture we have still deluded ourselves that we are not practising polygamy, but in essence we are.

You may love him and he may be great but it doesn't sound like you can handle this.

strandroad

Opagain wrote: »

In relation to the child I have no animosity at all, I haven't met them yet but it's not an issue. He didn't choose to have a child with her she announced a pregnancy within a few months of meeting him and he is definitely the type of man that would do the right thing and be there for his child.

OP this line stood out to me. There really is no surprising a man who does not use contraception. He must have known how babies are made, so it sounds like he's painting himself as a victim to gain sympathy from you and blame the ex.
Is he using condoms with you? You might be the next cold ex who selfishly announces a pregnancy, if something happens again...

Opagain wrote: »

Part of my concern is that I worry about his decision making. I wonder why he chose to marry someone who had so little care for him she walked away leaving him homeless and in thousands of euros of debt, there's two sides to every story but her behaviour in general is very selfish and cold and still she was who he wanted to spend his life with!

Have you only heard about it from him ad his family? In the light of the above, are you sure that all he says is 100% accurate - it's not that he's consciously lying, but he might believe all kinds of things in his head. This would make his decision making better, to address your concern, but his treatment of partners worse.

Dial Hard

mhge wrote:

There really is no surprising a man who does not use contraception. He must have known how babies are made, so it sounds like he's painting himself as a victim to gain sympathy from you and blame the ex.

That's a bit of a reach, don't you think? We have absolutely no details of how the pregnancy happened so to assume they just weren't using any contraception at all is extremely unfair.

I also suspect that there may well be an element of the OP choosing to believe that the ex "trapped" her partner with the pregnancy in order to, in her head, absolve him of having had any free will in the whole choosing to marry her thing. I'm not saying this is the case but it should be borne in mind that we're getting a version of events that's been filtered through his description of what happened and the OP's.

mhge wrote:

This would make his decision making better, to address your concern, but his treatment of partners worse.

I think you're being incredibly unfair to this man. His partner got pregnant very early into the relationship. He stuck with her and tried to make a go of it for years, but eventually it didn't work out. How is this in any way bad treatment of partners?

People make mistakes all the time and it's how they deal with them afterwards that shows you the true measure of the person. I don't see anything in the OP's post that paint this man as some kind of feckless playboy. Rather I think the OP is trying to convince herself that he didn't really know what he was doing so that she can believe any choices/decisions he makes with her are the "real" ones.

strandroad

Dial Hard wrote: »

That's a bit of a reach, don't you think? We have absolutely no details of how the pregnancy happened so to assume they just weren't using any contraception at all is extremely unfair.

I'm not saying any, I'm saying that if one does not use condoms pregnancy is always a possibility - even if the woman is using something else, no method is infallible. This is biology 101 so to act surprised and feel martyred is a sign of immaturity in my eyes. If it's still his stance years later it's not a good sign.

LegacyUser

Hi all op here,
Just to answer a few questions....
The wording "she announced she was pregnant" is mine not his. Obviously the pregnancy wasn't planned after 3 or so months but he has never blamed her in any way. The one and only time he mentioned it was "I met x shortly after I moved to this place and 3-4 months later she found out she was pregnant so I stayed. There's never been a hint of blame or absolving himself.

I don't know why I haven't met his child actually. They don't have a lot of alone time together so I think he's just very possessive that his dad time is sacred. We have talked about it and he has told me when he plans on introducing us which is fine with me.

I just want it to be known that in this thread I might have said his x is selfish etc but in my relationship I wouldnt say anything bad about her. They absolutely hate each other which I find sad because it means my bf and his child see less of each other than they could if things were smoother.
I do try to smooth things over but he won't talk about her at all as he says having to deal with her is enough. In time hopefully things will smooth over and if we are still together I would do my best to remind him to be civil. I think things are hard enough when children are involved without a 3rd party making things worse and the losers are the dad and child when things get nasty.

To the people who asked- Yes he has said he would get married again and would like a proper normal family. Though I know he is terrified.

Thank you to everyone who replied, your comments about seeing the bigger picure of a relationship were very helpful and reminded me of all the good things. I'll slow down and remember it's better to wait 10 years and marry the right person!!

Idle Passerby

It sounds to me like your really jumping the gun thinking about marriage. If you havnt even met his child yet its obviously no where near being serious or established enough to be wondering about an engagement yet.
You dont know what your dynamic will be with his child, or the childs mother more to the point. The fact that you already seem to see her as a villain doesnt bode well for a civil or amicable relationship down the line.
You dont say how long youve been witb your partner but my guess would be its still early days?

CaraMay

Yeah op I would have to caution you here as you seem way more invested than he is in this. Do you want to meet his kids? Why hasn't it happened? You have so much resettlement towards the whole set up that I think it could be a very hard future for both of you. You because you will never be the first and him because he could be married to a woman to resents his past. It sounds very unhealthy and a very very unhealthy environment to bring his kids into.

I would suggest you move on for his sake as much as yours. He deserves to be with someone who doesn't resent him.

power pants

The wording "she announced she was pregnant" is mine not his.


how else would she tell him?

Personally,it seems you have made your mind up and id just move on as the resentment you feel seems to big an issue

LegacyUser

If somebody "hated" my boyfriend i'd make damn sure I knew why.

Its certainly not something I'd just brush under the carpet if I wanted to spend my life with him. I'd want to know ALL he was capable of, not just what he was choosing to show me.

Is he paying the full maintenance he's required? Do they have a legal maintenance and visitation agreement in place? Do they have ANYTHING legal in place post-split?

Does he ever have to cancel on his visits with his child? Have you any proof he's sought any increase in hours? Does he help out with anything related to his child outside his visits (school/health etc) or is his parenting just limited to occasional hours?

It would be very very naive of you to plan a future family with a man without knowing the answers to all of these questions. And with collateral evidence, if possible, rather than just "well he says he does..."

LegacyUser

This thread just illustrates the need for quick American style divorces in this country instead of this waiting 4 years nonsense. Backward in the extreme and just leads to resentment when people are held back from getting on with their lives by outdated laws that need to be updated to the 21st Century.