Feeding cull cows

Kovu

In previous years we always sent culls to the mart, but I put my foot down this year as stress of them being beat round the mart, leapt on, beat up a lorry, etc etc is niggling away at me. So have two more to go, was happy with the first cow I sent earlier this year so will be sending these to Ballyduff as well I'd say.

9 & 10 years old, an R SimX and an O ChX. They're on a good field of grass and have another in front of them, very difficult to access these fields so suits us to put them there instead of weanlings.
They're on about 7kg of Super Beef Nuts a day each (Kiernans, 3 bags for €22)

Now I want them finished before Christmas. Should I start them on a mix I can do myself or will this do them? A mix would prob be cheaper I expect.

CloughCasey1

Kovu wrote: »

In previous years we always sent culls to the mart, but I put my foot down this year as stress of them being beat round the mart, leapt on, beat up a lorry, etc etc is niggling away at me. So have two more to go, was happy with the first cow I sent earlier this year so will be sending these to Ballyduff as well I'd say.

9 & 10 years old, an R SimX and an O ChX. They're on a good field of grass and have another in front of them, very difficult to access these fields so suits us to put them there instead of weanlings.
They're on about 7kg of Super Beef Nuts a day each (Kiernans, 3 bags for €22)

Now I want them finished before Christmas. Should I start them on a mix I can do myself or will this do them? A mix would prob be cheaper I expect.

Don't think your going too far wrong. The protien is a good bit high though. More maize, barley and soya hulls in the mix id say to give you extra fattening.

Kovu

I was going to get a bag of clorenda....chlorender....clorhoweverthefúckit'sspelled to mix in with it alright. Might take a wander round the co-op shed tomorrow and see what's there.

Willfarman

A bag of that mixed 50 50 with rolled barley would be grand.

Kovu

Willfarman wrote: »

A bag of that mixed 50 50 with rolled barley would be grand.

Dad keeps going on about beet pulp, never used it myself. Would it be any use? Barley isn't always stocked in the local place and what small bit they get in usually doesn't last long.

Cassidy2

Kovu wrote: »

Dad keeps going on about beet pulp, never used it myself. Would it be any use? Barley isn't always stocked in the local place and what small bit they get in usually doesn't last long.

That ration is why to high in protein for finishing cattle

Kovu

That's why I asked here! We normally never finish anything. So consensus seems to be barley and maize and soya? Will head in to co-op in the morning so want to know what to stock up on or order in. No prob ordering in from other branches nearby as I worked in it for a year, lorry travels between the stores on Tuesdays. You'd think I'd have learned something about finishing feeds while selling the fecking stuff.

Base price

Kovu wrote: »

That's why I asked here! We normally never finish anything. So consensus seems to be barley and maize and soya? Will head in to co-op in the morning so want to know what to stock up on or order in. No prob ordering in from other branches nearby as I worked in it for a year, lorry travels between the stores on Tuesdays. You'd think I'd have learned something about finishing feeds while selling the fecking stuff.

If you are going to feed straights don't forget to get a bag of minerals.

White Clover

Base price wrote: »

If you are going to feed straights don't forget to get a bag of minerals.

Hardly be needed for a short finishing period ?

Kovu

White Clover wrote: »

Hardly be needed for a short finishing period ?

They were only weaned two weeks ago and been highly fed since last Monday. There's a quarter bucket of a Hi-Mag lick going unused in the shed so I'll leave that out with them. May as well keep them happy for their last six weeks :pac:

pedigree 6

I think a lot of posters have covered feed.
However I'll say if you can put them in a house and finish them.
It'll be harder to finish them outside this time of year than summer.
They'll use more energy just trying to stay warm, if you put them in and have good silage they'll finish twice as quick.

Robson99

Kovu wrote: »

In previous years we always sent culls to the mart, but I put my foot down this year as stress of them being beat round the mart, leapt on, beat up a lorry, etc etc is niggling away at me. So have two more to go, was happy with the first cow I sent earlier this year so will be sending these to Ballyduff as well I'd say.

9 & 10 years old, an R SimX and an O ChX. They're on a good field of grass and have another in front of them, very difficult to access these fields so suits us to put them there instead of weanlings.
They're on about 7kg of Super Beef Nuts a day each (Kiernans, 3 bags for €22)

Now I want them finished before Christmas. Should I start them on a mix I can do myself or will this do them? A mix would prob be cheaper I expect.

Kovu
IMO the best nut from kiernans/Stewart's is the Buffalo nut. And as Willfarman said mix it with rolled barley. You Dont need protein or minerals fr that short of a finishing period

Kovu

The paddock area they're in now is well sheltered, as in a very thick hedge on all four sides and a dry hill to lie on. Needs to be eaten as well so I guess it depends on how long it takes them to clean it off before they're housed. We've nothing in the shed yet but we'll definitely be overstocked in it as we''ve a lot of weanlings to winter, don't think they'd fit in tbh

Base price

White Clover wrote: »

Hardly be needed for a short finishing period ?

Twigged that now after reading the full post.

Base price

pedigree 6 wrote: »

I think a lot of posters have covered feed.
However I'll say if you can put them in a house and finish them.
It'll be harder to finish them outside this time of year than summer.
They'll use more energy just trying to stay warm, if you put them in and have good silage they'll finish twice as quick.

If Kovu had a bit of rough grazing iykwim, they would do nicely on it along with the meal.
Often finished culls on rough/course cover over the winter months with a bit of meal on this place (17 acres). The course grass acts like hay/straw and slows down their rumen allowing the meal to be more effective.

Kovu

They're on lush enough grass, it was left be after silage mid-July and no cattle on it since. It gets fert in Spring but as it's so inaccessible it doesn't get anything after it's baled. Funnily enough, it's one of our few fields with no rushes :pac:

Prob bring a bale of hay out to them in a fortnight.

mf240

I find with cows a bit of extra time feeding rather than trying to push them too hard can be better.

Nothing wrong with that nut really except its a bit dear.

Kovu

They're not in bad nick now, good bit of flesh on them already. Round 600ish kg, maybe a bit more for the chx.

pedigree 6

A few farmers round here finish cull cows putting them in the shed end sept and have them finished and off to factory before main lot of cows, heifers come in for winter.
You can see a big difference even in a few days in the condition of the cows.
I'm not telling you not to fatten them outside but they'll need more energy outside as opposed to inside.

Kovu

pedigree 6 wrote: »

A few farmers round here finish cull cows putting them in the shed end sept and have them finished and off to factory before main lot of cows, heifers come in for winter.
You can see a big difference even in a few days in the condition of the cows.
I'm not telling you not to fatten them outside but they'll need more energy outside as opposed to inside.

The one major problem with that though is the sim has atrocious feet, as in she finds it very hard to get up when on the slats, despite having the mats on them. It's much easier on her out the field.

Base price

Kovu wrote: »

The one major problem with that though is the sim has atrocious feet, as in she finds it very hard to get up when on the slats, despite having the mats on them. It's much easier on her out the field.

Considering the above and the fact that they are on grass and your feeding meal then if they were mine I would restrict their grass intake using strip grazing and offer them roughage in the form of barley/wheaten straw or hay.
Nothing worse than feeding meal and seeing it pouring out the back end not properly digested.

Kovu

Base price wrote: »

Considering the above and the fact that they are on grass and your feeding meal then if they were mine I would restrict their grass intake using strip grazing and offer them roughage in the form of barley/wheaten straw or hay.
Nothing worse than feeding meal and seeing it pouring out the back end not properly digested.

Mmmm, good point, so far I've left them to Dad but I'll be down with them tomorrow and see how they're faring in the poop department. Both were fluked just before weaning. Might bring down a bale tomorrow if we have one, not sure if we have any straw atm, neighbour took two bales off us last week. Straw deliveries aren't as easy here when you only need a few bales!

Grueller

Jaysus I am always astounded by the hardship out west with straw. Around here I can collect any amoint within 1 mile of my yard for €6:50 -€8:00 for a 4x4 round bale of feed quality barley straw. A neighbour offered me oaten for free and get it baled myself this year when straw was cheap.

Bullocks

Grueller wrote: »

Jaysus I am always astounded by the hardship out west with straw. Around here I can collect any amoint within 1 mile of my yard for €6:50 -€8:00 for a 4x4 round bale of feed quality barley straw. A neighbour offered me oaten for free and get it baled myself this year when straw was cheap.

They are looking for €14 collected here in the west for barley straw

CloughCasey1

Kovu wrote: »

That's why I asked here! We normally never finish anything. So consensus seems to be barley and maize and soya? Will head in to co-op in the morning so want to know what to stock up on or order in. No prob ordering in from other branches nearby as I worked in it for a year, lorry travels between the stores on Tuesdays. You'd think I'd have learned something about finishing feeds while selling the fecking stuff.

Soya hulls. Soya meal for protein and hulls for fibre.

Bullocks

CloughCasey1 wrote: »

Soya hulls. Soya meal for protein and hulls for fibre.

Can you buy soya stuff in small bags around the west ?

CloughCasey1

Bullocks wrote: »

Can you buy soya stuff in small bags around the west ?

Yup pm sent boss

148multi

It takes energy to fatten animals, it also takes energy to breakdown protein by your cows and by feeding anything above 12%_13% protein to fully grown animals you are slowing the rate at which your cows will fatten and increasing the cost of finishing them.

Robson99

CloughCasey1 wrote: »

Yup pm sent boss

CC can you PM me details as well. Thanks

Farrell

CloughCasey1 wrote: »

Soya hulls. Soya meal for protein and hulls for fibre.

Is there anything else that can substitute hulls?
Can get Maize, soya bean, barley & oats up this way, but straw is €20/barley

Kovu

148multi wrote: »

It takes energy to fatten animals, it also takes energy to breakdown protein by your cows and by feeding anything above 12%_13% protein to fully grown animals you are slowing the rate at which your cows will fatten and increasing the cost of finishing them.

Interesting, I really need to read up more on finishing animals. We used to finish the calves when we were milking but that's 20 years ago now and things have changed massively.

Buford T. Justice XIX

Kovu wrote: »

Interesting, I really need to read up more on finishing animals. We used to finish the calves when we were milking but that's 20 years ago now and things have changed massively.

Sure, go the whole hog and get yourself a bit of an education;)

Kovu

Six weeks to D-Day for them. Started them on barley and maize mixed through with beef nuts - 33% of each.
They're in the acre field as it's called.


Ch cow- 9 yrs old & Sim cow- 10 yrs old

bogman_bass

If it was me id'd just feed them 3 or 4 kg of tolled barley and keep it as cheep as possible. Grass has more than enough protein in it for that job. When grass gets tight give them a bale of high quality silage

Kovu

bogman_bass wrote: »

If it was me id'd just feed them 3 or 4 kg of tolled barley and keep it as cheep as possible. Grass has more than enough protein in it for that job. When grass gets tight give them a bale of high quality silage

It was hard enough to get them to eat the mix this morning! I'll prob change to clorender as I think it's the maize meal they don't like. Have another 3 acre field and a two acre one to clean off too, so no need for a bale just yet. Will move them from this field Sunday.

Cow Porter

id wonder is there enough energy in the nut... wheat feed, palm kernal and sunflower listed before the molasses which would be 5-8% of the nut.

http://www.teagasc.ie/newsletters/farmingtips/2012/dairy-20120229.asp

bogman_bass

Kovu wrote: »

It was hard enough to get them to eat the mix this morning! I'll prob change to clorender as I think it's the maize meal they don't like. Have another 3 acre field and a two acre one to clean off too, so no need for a bale just yet. Will move them from this field Sunday.

I find it hard enough to get them to eat straight maize too. Use more nuts to start and slowly reduce the ratio.

The nuts have loads of molasses so they are tasty. Its like giving porridge to a kid that has gotten used to Coco Pops

Kovu

Cow Porter wrote: »

id wonder is there enough energy in the nut... wheat feed, palm kernal and sunflower listed before the molasses which would be 5-8% of the nut.

http://www.teagasc.ie/newsletters/farmingtips/2012/dairy-20120229.asp

Have the nuts changed from yesterday! They're now on Premier Beer from Aurivo.

bogman_bass

how much are they getting?

Kovu

bogman_bass wrote: »

how much are they getting?

About 7/8kg a day each. That was just the nuts. It prob weighs different now as it's a mix. Maybe about 3kg of nuts, rest is now half maize meal, half barley.

bogman_bass

are you splitting the feeds? Thats a lot of meal for animals at grass. I'd be adding some hay or straw if that was me.

Kovu

bogman_bass wrote: »

are you splitting the feeds? Thats a lot of meal for animals at grass. I'd be adding some hay or straw if that was me.

Oh ya, half in the morning round 9, other half at half four or five. There was a sizable amount of grass on that field when they went in, could have been cut if we had better access. There will prob go out a bale of hay to them in a couple of weeks, we just want the fields eaten first. They'd take the dry hay over the wet grass if we put one out now.

CloughCasey1

bogman_bass wrote: »

If it was me id'd just feed them 3 or 4 kg of tolled barley and keep it as cheep as possible. Grass has more than enough protein in it for that job. When grass gets tight give them a bale of high quality silage

Protein to grow frame and muscle, energy to finish. Too much protein finishing an animal and the energy feed they are eating is used up in the obsorbtion of the protien into the system. Would be as well off with straw and the meal she is giving them. Anyway grass isn't as high in protein this time of yr AFAIK.

bogman_bass

Kovu wrote: »

Oh ya, half in the morning round 9, other half at half four or five. There was a sizable amount of grass on that field when they went in, could have been cut if we had better access. There will prob go out a bale of hay to them in a couple of weeks, we just want the fields eaten first. They'd take the dry hay over the wet grass if we put one out now.

I'm not telling you you're wrong just telling you what I would do (which is probably wrong anyways) I have no doubt you'll end up with nice fat puddings for the factory either way!:D

Robson99

Are beet pulp nuts as good as soya hulls as a source of fibre in a high concentrate finishing diet or would I be better to just give straw. Currently getting 8kg of barley maize and beef nut mix with ad lib hay and silage. Was going to up it to 10kg [ 2kg pulp nut ] but think its expensive compared to barley or prices quoted for soya hulls in the comic

mf240

Robson99 wrote: »

Are beet pulp nuts as good as soya hulls as a source of fibre in a high concentrate finishing diet or would I be better to just give straw. Currently getting 8kg of barley maize and beef nut mix with ad lib hay and silage. Was going to up it to 10kg [ 2kg pulp nut ] but think its expensive compared to barley or prices quoted for soya hulls in the comic

Soya hulls are a better source of fibre. And are a good bit cheaper than pulp nuts.

Damo810

CloughCasey1 wrote: »

Yup pm sent boss

Ye may send on the info here to Don't think they have it in the local co-op.

Neo Sanders

Hi All,

I have a question so just posting it here rather than starting a new thread.

I'm wondering what daily LW gain would you expect to get on feeding continental cows?

I put in 5 continental cows, good R grade LMX and SIX cows. The plan was to finish or sell live in Jan/Feb 2021. They were on about 2.5 KG of meal (16% Protein nut) for around 6 weeks. With the recent rise in cull cow prices I decided to push them a bit so they were upped to 7 Kg. (split in two feeds). They were on this level of feed for 16 days before I sold them live, last week.

These cows were a few autumn calvers that lost their calves and a couple of spring calvers that weren't in calf. So overall they didn't get that much feeding.

The were on 76DMD first cut silage and access to straw. When selling I would say 3 cows were fit to kill and the other 2 were close to it.

I weighed the cows the day they were upped to the 7KG and I weighed them again at home the night before they were sold. For the final 16 days 3 cows gained 20Kg, one gained 10kg and the other one gained 5Kg.

The ones that gained the least were the younger shapier cows. It seems they had reached their peak as I mentioned it to my haulier and he said they were well fit to kill and this is what he thought. So upping the feed was wasted on those two and barely worth it for the other 3.

The meal is costing €270/tonne and the cows sale price averaged 1.75€/kg live and they averaged 750Kg.

For the 3 cows that gained 20Kg this is 1.25Kg/day . Whats your thoughts on this level of performance? Is it good or poor given the circumstances?


It a pity I didn't weigh them at housing as I be able to compare the performance on the lower level of feeding. I'm thinking I substituted good silage with expensive meal for little gain. I realise the nut wasn't ideal for fattening cows, something lower in protein and higher in energy would be more suitable. But that's what I had and feed to store cattle etc. I found in the past that cattle aren't that keen on maize meal .

Would they have performed better on a higher energy nut/meal mix? Or what level of gain would people normally expect? Or is it the case that cows level of gain is not as high as younger cattle, so high feeding levels is not worth it?

Thanks in advance

Sugarbowl

Not answering your question but I sold cows like yours same weight and got the same euro/kg.
I didn’t pile on the ration but gave a shake the week before the sale. They were slaughtered by the next week.

Neo Sanders

Sugarbowl wrote: »

Not answering your question but I sold cows like yours same weight and got the same euro/kg.
I didn’t pile on the ration but gave a shake the week before the sale. They were slaughtered by the next week.

Sounds like we got the going rate so, I'd say mine are killed by now also. I think moderate feeding would pay, but I don't think heavy feeding does. But I know lads who would feed cows heavy for 6 weeks and more and swear by it. I'd like to hear the figures.

I don't think I'm going to get any answers here though, there no replies coming back... Maybe everyone is on holidays 😊

tanko

Younger cows are usually more in demand than older ones in the mart anyway, i'd say they usually put on weight better on average.
I sold five recently, they ranged from 1.70 to 1.90 €/kg so better than what i usually get for culls this time of year.