Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Rent problem

Options
  • 26-10-2015 11:38pm
    #1
    fire and ice
    Registered Users Posts: 56 ✭✭


    Hi, a friend of mine signed a lease along with two others. They all pay their rent separately as agreed with landlord. 5 months into lease landlord says she wants house back for herself.

    2 of them have already moved with only my friend remaining until end of month. Landlord has now contacted my friend saying rent is missing for last few months. My friend stupidly did not keep receipts from the bank where she paid rent directly into landlords account. What can she do to prove that she paid her share? Can she ask for landlords bank statements?


Comments

  • Options
    #2
    johnnyskeleton
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 14,507 Mod ✭✭✭✭johnnyskeleton


    This could be a problem. She should contact the others to see what they have paid, see if she has a rent book and have a look at the lease.

    Maybe contact threshold


  • Options
    #3
    fire and ice
    Registered Users Posts: 56 ✭✭fire and ice


    johnnyskeleton wrote: »
    This could be a problem. She should contact the others to see what they have paid, see if she has a rent book and have a look at the lease.

    Maybe contact threshold

    The landlord wouldn't give them a rent book said they didn't need it. The others said they paid but she can't be sure they did as they said they also don't have receipts. She put her name on her payments so the landlord should know which was hers. She received an email today from landlord saying she is taking a case against her with prtb.


  • Options
    #4
    baldbear
    Registered Users Posts: 5,564 ✭✭✭baldbear


    There's no way a landlord can kick someone out 5 months into a lease & could your friend not approach the bank for a receipt if they have a date they lodged the money to the lanslors a/c?

    You can't beat good direct debit. Are your friends other housemates trustworthy?


  • Options
    #5
    Red Kev
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,793 ✭✭✭Red Kev


    LL is going to have to prove the rent wasn't paid. In court they will have to produce bank statements. If your friend has paid the money in, using their name then they should be all right.

    In the meantime ask the LL in writing for a rent book.


  • Options
    #6
    Leroy42
    Registered Users Posts: 15,652 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    Your friend is leaving at the end of the month regardless?

    So what is the problem? The landlord has already let the others leave and is only now bringing up the issue?

    If your friend is sure they have paid then there really is nothing to worry about.

    What exactly is the landlord going to do about it? They could try to keep the deposit I assume, but based on the no rent book and the landlord apparent lack of proper accounting I am going to assume they are not registered and they won't want to go down the route of going to the PRTB and getting revenue involved


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #7
    FishOnABike
    Registered Users Posts: 4,475 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    johnnyskeleton wrote: »
    Maybe contact threshold

    This is good advice. Your friend needs to look at her lease and determine what type of rental agreement is in place. Are / were each of the tenants individually renting a room or did they have a joint lease? Did they all sign it or did only one sign it? This may have implications whether she could be lliable for only her own part of the rent or whether she might be pursued for any shortfall by other tenants. What is the landlord saying has not been paid?

    Your friend has been naive in not keeping her bank lodgement receipts for her rent. If she included an identifiable narrative (like her own name) when making the lodgements then her payments should be identifiable on the landlord's bank statements. Have the other people who were in the house done the same of paid by electronic funds transfer or standing order? Are they still contactable?

    The landlord not wanting to issue a rent book should have rung alarm bells. I'd also find it strange that they didn't issue a fourteen day notice of arrears as soon as there was any alleged shortfall in rent. Did you receive notice from the PRTB that your tenancy was registered? While none of these are hugely significant, together they would paint a picture of haphazard management by the landlord.


  • Options
    #8
    Lux23
    Registered Users Posts: 7,134 ✭✭✭Lux23


    I wonder does the landlord have a tax bill to pay.


  • Options
    #9
    Effects
    Registered Users Posts: 9,760 ✭✭✭Effects


    baldbear wrote: »
    Could your friend not approach the bank for a receipt if they have a date they lodged the money to the lanslors a/c?
    Bank won't give out details of lodgements made to someone else's account.


  • Options
    #10
    fire and ice
    Registered Users Posts: 56 ✭✭fire and ice


    She has already tried asking the bank but they said they can't give details of someone else's account. They jointly signed the lease for the whole house not individual rooms.

    I personally think it was one of the others who did not pay and landlord is trying it on with my friend as she is the only one left in the house and the landlord has no way of contacting them.

    I have told her to contact threshold but may have to go with her as she is a shy non confrontational person.

    Also as far as I am aware its an illegal eviction as they had a fixed term lease. Landlord never mentioned rent arrears until after she told them she was moving back in herself due to personal reasons.


  • Options
    #11
    MarkAnthony
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭MarkAnthony


    Bit confused here. You friend is thinking of staying and paying all the rent themselves?

    IIRC if it's a part IV as opposed to a fixed term there is no security of tenure in the first 6 months.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #12
    Uno my Uno.
    Registered Users Posts: 905 ✭✭✭Uno my Uno.


    This is bizarre, the Landlord is trying on a bogus claim for back rent after an illegal eviction? She much have some neck. And all three tenants simply left? Was there a deposit involved, was it returned?

    The Landlord must be crazy and your friends very badly informed/advised.

    If this is a try on by the Landlord your friend should simply ignore it and leave the property as planned.


  • Options
    #13
    fire and ice
    Registered Users Posts: 56 ✭✭fire and ice


    MarkAnthony wrote: »
    Bit confused here. You friend is thinking of staying and paying all the rent themselves?

    IIRC if it's a part IV as opposed to a fixed term there is no security of tenure in the first 6 months.
    Add your reply here.
    No she is also leaving as she would be unable to afford it herself. She didn't realize until I told her that the landlord has no right to tell them to leave as they had a fixed term lease.

    Don't know if she can lodge a complaint now as they agreed to move. The deposit has not yet been returned as she has until end of month to leave. I doubt it will be returned now.


  • Options
    #14
    4ensic15
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,691 ✭✭✭4ensic15


    She can complain to the PRTB about being ousted due to an invalid termination notice.


  • Options
    #15
    FishOnABike
    Registered Users Posts: 4,475 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    If your friend and her housemates have a fixed term lease, the landlord wanting to move into the property is not a valid reason for the landlord to terminate the lease.

    If your friend was not given proper written notice of arrears and proper written notice of termination (and the requirements for both are quite specific and detailed) she may not have been issued with a valid notice of termination - just telling her is not enough.

    If valid notice was not given this may be cause for your friend to raise a complaint with the PRTB.

    The lack of proper record keeping on all sides doesn't help in trying to determine where the claimed arrears arise and if there are any who they might be attributable to.

    Depending on the terms of the lease any one, each or all of your friend and her housemates could be liable individually or together for part or all of any arrears.

    If your friend would prefer to remain she may have the option to contest the termination (through the PRTB) and either stay with the original housemates or look for new housemates and reassign the lease to new housemates making it affordable.

    Asking to reassign the lease might be worth doing even if your friend does not intend staying as a refusal by the landlord could remove early termination of their fixed term lease as potential grounds for the landlord witholding part of any deposit.

    If any part of the deposit is retained without valid reason your friend may wish to raise this as a complaint with the PRTB.

    There are a number of issues your friend could do with getting proper advice on. She should take a copy of the lease and any further information with her to threshold, a free legal advice clinic or citizens information centre (or all of these) and get some advice on what options she might want to follow.


  • Options
    #16
    MarkAnthony
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭MarkAnthony


    'ang on 'ang on. No one else has noticed that at best the OP's friend is going to be paying 33% of the rent? Okay technically not very nice to force her out and all that but the chips fall more against the people not paying the rent.


  • Options
    #17
    fire and ice
    Registered Users Posts: 56 ✭✭fire and ice


    MarkAnthony wrote: »
    'ang on 'ang on. No one else has noticed that at best the OP's friend is going to be paying 33% of the rent? Okay technically not very nice to force her out and all that but the chips fall more against the people not paying the rent.

    She is not looking to only pay 33% rent. Her sister is letting her stay with her until she can find something. I got her to send an email to landlord so they could discuss where landlord is missing payment as my friend knows that she paid her share.

    She should have kept her receipts but assumed wrongly that bank would verify this. She is also going to threshold to see if they can help.

    Thanks for everyone's advise. Hopefully it all gets sorted and I will post the outcome.


  • Options
    #18
    lcwill
    Registered Users Posts: 259 ✭✭lcwill


    This landlord is a joker.

    Call PRTB and Threshold and take him to the cleaners.

    (I am a landlord by the way, but sick of guys like this)


  • Options
    #19
    FishOnABike
    Registered Users Posts: 4,475 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    MarkAnthony wrote: »
    'ang on 'ang on. No one else has noticed that at best the OP's friend is going to be paying 33% of the rent? Okay technically not very nice to force her out and all that but the chips fall more against the people not paying the rent.
    She does have the option of staying there with the existing housemates if they have not yet found permanent alternative accommodation or finding two new housemates and reassigning the lease.


  • Options
    #20
    Effects
    Registered Users Posts: 9,760 ✭✭✭Effects


    fire and ice wrote: »
    She should have kept her receipts but assumed wrongly that bank would verify this. She is also going to threshold to see if they can help.

    Another potential problem there is if she put the wrong account number on the lodgement slip. It happened to a friend of mine a few years ago. She only found out 6 weeks later. She was down €1000 and someone else found a lucky lodgement in their account.


  • Options
    #21
    Uno my Uno.
    Registered Users Posts: 905 ✭✭✭Uno my Uno.


    Dublin13 wrote: »
    actually the landlord is in their rights to end any contract fixed term or not if they are no. 1 moving back in and having the house as their primary address, no.2 converting the house into a business premises, or no.3 selling the property within the next 3 months. All those reasons are legal reasons for any landlord to end a tenancy with their tenant. HOwever they need to give the correct length of time. And from what i've read they have no?

    If your friend is unable to pay the rent anyhow by herself, would she not just be better off moving out anyhow.

    No, No , No, No. This is incorrect and is a very common confusion of Part 4 Tenancy rights with the rights under a fixed term lease. Part 4 rights do not apply during the first six months of a tenancy but the rights under the lease do.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #22
    fire and ice
    Registered Users Posts: 56 ✭✭fire and ice


    Effects wrote: »
    Another potential problem there is if she put the wrong account number on the lodgement slip. It happened to a friend of mine a few years ago. She only found out 6 weeks later. She was down €1000 and someone else found a lucky lodgement in their account.

    I will get her to check this I really hope its not the case.


  • Options
    #23
    fire and ice
    Registered Users Posts: 56 ✭✭fire and ice


    Just wanted to update to thank all who posted good advice. After finding two recepits of the supposedly missing rent my friend took a picture and sent it to landlady.
    After several weeks of former landlady not making contact my friend emailed her as she was worried that there was going to be prtb case against her. Landlady replied that it was all sorted and no explanation!!!


Advertisement