Events Centre

opus

Walked past there this morning, roughly the same pics as from an old post back in March here. Most of the big pile of debris is gone now so guess some sort of progress.

BUNK1982

I've come to the conclusion that this will not be built.

There are 3 parties involved which was only ever going to be a mess, BAM own the site so they're happy enough to leave it trundle along as they can use it for an office with the nearby Capitol project completed and the Sullivans Quay proposal about to start.

What will likely happen is that student apartments will be built and there'll be modifications so the design that will require it going back through the ringer for planning. It will be either a much smaller events centre or else it will be scrapped altogether.

I'm doing a 180 - they should pull the plug now and build it down in the Docklands.

Pablo Escobar

BUNK1982 wrote: »

I've come to the conclusion that this will not be built.

There are 3 parties involved which was only ever going to be a mess, BAM own the site so they're happy enough to leave it trundle along as they can use it for an office with the nearby Capitol project completed and the Sullivans Quay proposal about to start.

What will likely happen is that student apartments will be built and there'll be modifications so the design that will require it going back through the ringer for planning. It will be either a much smaller events centre or else it will be scrapped altogether.

I'm doing a 180 - they should pull the plug now and build it down in the Docklands.

The docklands was always the location for me. That's were the future of the city lies anyway and there were major access concerns with the brewery site. It doesn't matter either way now though as the docklands site is going to be developed as office space now.

BUNK1982

Pablo Escobar wrote: »

The docklands was always the location for me. That's were the future of the city lies anyway and there were major access concerns with the brewery site. It doesn't matter either way now though as the docklands site is going to be developed as office space now.

I still think the B&C site is the better option but if BAM own it then there's little to no hope of it being developed to benefit the city over their shareholders.

The previous docklands site is being developed into office space (Navigation Square) but there's a lot more brownfield space down there where it could go.

mire

BUNK1982 wrote: »

I still think the B&C site is the better option but if BAM own it then there's little to no hope of it being developed to benefit the city over their shareholders.

The previous docklands site is being developed into office space (Navigation Square) but there's a lot more brownfield space down there where it could go.

You're somewhat missing the point in my opinion. Whoever builds this, wherever its built, it will have to be effectively sanctioned by Live Nation. They are the ones pulling the levers.

DylanGLC

I guess I am the only one who still believes construction will start by the end of the year

BUNK1982

mire wrote: »

You're somewhat missing the point in my opinion. Whoever builds this, wherever its built, it will have to be effectively sanctioned by Live Nation. They are the ones pulling the levers.

No I agree - Live Nation have to be on board for it to be viable into the future.

They're the only company with an expertise in live event mgmt. involved in this project.

BAM are a building company so completing more straightforward projects like the hotel Sullivans Quay and the student apartments will more than likely take priority.

Pablo Escobar

DylanGLC wrote: »

I guess I am the only one who still believes construction will start by the end of the year

I would think that is likely alright

opus

This p*ss take article cracked me up

Taoiseach Coveney to Hold Victory Rally in Cork’s Event Centre That He Helped Deliver

Mumha

DylanGLC wrote: »

I guess I am the only one who still believes construction will start by the end of the year

No, I think it will start by the end of the year too. If this project was dead, LiveNation would have disengaged by now, which they haven't, quite the contrary in fact. They have no skin in the property as such.

KCAccidental

DylanGLC wrote: »

I guess I am the only one who still believes construction will start by the end of the year

construction will begin on site. Probably for the student apartments though

flo8s967qjh0nd

The Lord Mayor was saying in the Echo yesterday that we'd be mad not to give the developers more money at this stage. I tens to agree with him but didnt seem to have any idea when a decision might be made.
In fairness, passed last week and they've done a good but of clearance and seem to be moving along with he archaeology. They'd need to that anyway whatever they were building. Why hey didn't do it a year or two ago, I don't know.
But, I don't think anyone can have any certainty which way this will go until actual construction begins on the centre (and not just the student housing).

flo8s967qjh0nd

Heard this evening that government now will NOT provide further funding for this and that the developers will be told to finance the extra design changes themselves. If accurate, this surely spells the end of the event centre at South Main St. Time to start looking for an alternative.

namloc1980

Nancy Unkempt Shop wrote: »

Heard this evening that government now will NOT provide further funding for this and that the developers will be told to finance the extra design changes themselves. If accurate, this surely spells the end of the event centre at South Main St. Time to start looking for an alternative.

Would it not be the end of it in total? There is no other site, that I'm aware of anyway.

Meursault

Nancy Unkempt Shop wrote: »

Heard this evening that government now will NOT provide further funding for this and that the developers will be told to finance the extra design changes themselves. If accurate, this surely spells the end of the event centre at South Main St. Time to start looking for an alternative.

What is your source?

Absolutely disgraceful if true. Cork gets f**k all in public funding, relatively speaking, given population size and the amount we contribute to the Irish economy.

Simon is lucky he is hiding away in foreign affairs.

It's just like all the other grand plans that they announce for cork. Never comes to anything

Bonzzy

I know theres no event center going there-government lies.Its apartments and student accomadation and shops that heineken are putting in there

BullBlackNova

Bonzzy wrote: »

I know theres no event center going there-government lies.Its apartments and student accomadation and shops that heineken are putting in there

Heineken aren't involved in the project. They sold the land to BAM last year. It's just BAM, Live Nation and the government now.

And on the funding request - there's been no decision made. Dept of Heritage are awaiting further info and before the cabinet reshuffle, Paschal Donohoe said any decision would be made in the context of the Capital Plan review later this year.

Parliamentary question and answer gave all the detail, few of the Cork TDs have asked and gotten the same answer.

Bonzzy

BullBlackNova wrote: »

Heineken aren't involved in the project. They sold the land to BAM last year. It's just BAM, Live Nation and the government now.

And on the funding request - there's been no decision made. Dept of Heritage are awaiting further info and before the cabinet reshuffle, Paschal Donohoe said any decision would be made in the context of the Capital Plan review later this year.

Parliamentary question and answer gave all the detail, few of the Cork TDs have asked and gotten the same answer.

Fair enough i thought heineken owned it-anyway Ive heard apartments and student digs are going there

D'Agger

Given the development plan for the port out out last week I'd expect there might be a call to review the tender & reassess the plans that were put forward for that area previously

Meursault

D'Agger wrote: »

Given the development plan for the port out out last week I'd expect there might be a call to review the tender & reassess the plans that were put forward for that area previously

But I assume the location has nothing to do with this? I don't see how it would be any cheaper to build down on the docks?

The alternative location (Navigation square) will be an office block anyway, so it's a moot point debating whether the docks were/are more suitable

D'Agger

Meursault wrote: »

But I assume the location has nothing to do with this? I don't see how it would be any cheaper to build down on the docks?

The alternative location (Navigation square) will be an office block anyway, so it's a moot point debating whether the docks were/are more suitable

True, but who's to say a different developer can't come to an agreement with Live Nation without requiring additional government funds?

If the parameters are set and the Government isn't budging on the funds being provided then that means the plans for this development would have to be tailored around that to an extent and I think, if a developer & live nation wanted to see this done, they could do just that. Ultimately, if money can be made out of this, somebody will pick up the baton.

mire

D'Agger wrote: »

True, but who's to say a different developer can't come to an agreement with Live Nation without requiring additional government funds?

If the parameters are set and the Government isn't budging on the funds being provided then that means the plans for this development would have to be tailored around that to an extent and I think, if a developer & live nation wanted to see this done, they could do just that. Ultimately, if money can be made out of this, somebody will pick up the baton.

Doesn't matter who the developer is, or the location. It's the operators' demands.

Meursault

mire wrote: »

Doesn't matter who the developer is, or the location. It's the operators' demands.

Status of Event Centre was raised at this evening's Cork Co Co meeting. Apparently request for additional funding still will Dept of Arts. We are none the wiser basically, but at least it hasn't been rejected.

flo8s967qjh0nd

Meursault wrote: »

Status of Event Centre was raised at this evening's Cork Co Co meeting. Apparently request for additional funding still will Dept of Arts. We are none the wiser basically, but at least it hasn't been rejected.

I will have to seriously rebuke my source. Glad to see it has not been rejected. Things are sooo slow!

theboringfox

I really don't see why a government should step in to bail this out. Private contractors basically now know bid low to win deal then renegotiate price once won. Is there a good explanation of why costs have risen so much?

BUNK1982

theboringfox wrote: »

I really don't see why a government should step in to bail this out. Private contractors basically now know bid low to win deal then renegotiate price once won. Is there a good explanation of why costs have risen so much?

There's a public good at stake that will have a massive impact on the social, cultural and economic success of Cork city and the wider region, so the government should intervene with funds.

They did it for the BGE theatre at Grand Canal Dock so why not for Cork?

namloc1980

BUNK1982 wrote: »

There's a public good at stake that will have a massive impact on the social, cultural and economic success of Cork city and the wider region, so the government should intervene with funds.

They did it for the BGE theatre at Grand Canal Dock so why not for Cork?

They did intervene with funds but now being asked for more. Shouldn't be a blank cheque.

who_me

namloc1980 wrote: »

They did intervene with funds but now being asked for more. Shouldn't be a blank cheque.

I agree. Being so much over-budget before any construction has even started is pretty worrying. How could the initial estimate have been so off?

I'd hope it's not as cynical as them submitting a BS proposal to win the tender; then upping the cost once the project is theirs. Though I'm not sure the alternative "we didn't realise how much it'd cost" is any more reassuring.

If the cost is due to a redesign, fair enough. But a redesign should invalidate the tender. Better to make the right decision, than a quick one.

DylanGLC

I think I read that Live Navtion didn't come on to the project until after BAM had designed something and it needed to be redesigned so that it would be viable

Patrick 1959

It's a Pitty O'Callaghan didn't get the job, it wood probably be built now. Who knows they still might come up with new site in the Docklands. I really think it will not be built in South Main Street.