Events Centre

D'Agger

My concern is that if this ever was to happen, by the time it would be developed, finished and ready for use....we'll be in the midst of another economic downturn

snotboogie

Am I reading it wrong or is this the extent of the legal advice issue?
[font=Raleway, HelveticaNeue, "Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]The city’s head of planning and economic development, Pat Ledwidge, revealed that the council, which is managing the complex process, submitted the formal request for extra state funding for the events centre on March 28, and provided further information on June 13 to support the application.“The Department of Arts, Heritage, Regional, Rural and Gaeltacht affairs requested further clarification on July 3. One of the items necessitated legal advice which is in the course of being obtained,” he said.“Once this advice is obtained, the information sought will be forwarded to the department. It is anticipated that this will happen within the next two weeks.”[/font]

flo8s967qjh0nd

Seems like that's it. Quite vague but that's as much as we know.

Mumha

The Evening Echo did what only can be described as a "Hit Piece" all over the front page, this evening. Essentially they regurgitated what was already stated last week, along with FF's McGrath for his "concerning" comments. It is utterly clear where Fianna Fail's loyalties lie, and in whose cash rich pockets they remain. If they can bring this development down, they will do so, in order to deliver for their benefactor. They are a cancer on our city and our country.

j8wk2feszrnpao

Mumha wrote: »

The Evening Echo did what only can be described as a "Hit Piece" all over the front page, this evening. Essentially they regurgitated what was already stated last week, along with FF's McGrath for his "concerning" comments. It is utterly clear where Fianna Fail's loyalties lie, and in whose cash rich pockets they remain. If they can bring this development down, they will do so, in order to deliver for their benefactor. They are a cancer on our city and our country.

If their loyalties are unknown, then why say they they will bring it down if they can?
FF, as much as I dislike them, are not in control of this project.
This project is enough of a mess without bringing party politics into it.

Mumha

munstermagic11 wrote: »

If their loyalties are unknown, then why say they they will bring it down if they can?
FF, as much as I dislike them, are not in control of this project.
This project is enough of a mess without bringing party politics into it.

Their loyalties ARE well known. They're in the pocket of OCP, going back decades. You may have missed a tribunal or two. :rolleyes:

Thankfully you are right that FF are not in control of this project, but it hasn't stopped them trying to destabilize it. If they can't stamp their name all over it, and rake in the backhanders, they'll do all they can to stop anyone else. It's what they do. You are beyond naïve to suggest party politics has no part in this.

Roger Hassenforder

Mumha wrote: »

The Evening Echo did what only can be described as a "Hit Piece" all over the front page, this evening. Essentially they regurgitated what was already stated last week, along with FF's McGrath for his "concerning" comments. It is utterly clear where Fianna Fail's loyalties lie, and in whose cash rich pockets they remain. If they can bring this development down, they will do so, in order to deliver for their benefactor. They are a cancer on our city and our country.

While I despise FF, and won't condone a thing those fcukers are up to, you never mentioned that the City Council haven't even submitted an application for the extra funding needed.


http://www.eveningecho.ie/corknews/No-extra-funds-request-yet-for-events-centre-f9dd99e7-ec69-44c4-8e45-b7f320faacf4-ds

Who is in charge of this project? Last we heard they're off seeking legal advice at the behest of the Dept, I thought/assumed the legal advice was requested as part of the application. They haven't even applied for the extra cash!!
We're even further away from it!

Fcuk it at this stage, might as well build apartments and a Starbucks

j8wk2feszrnpao

Mumha wrote: »

Their loyalties ARE well known. They're in the pocket of OCP, going back decades. You may have missed a tribunal or two. :rolleyes:

Thankfully you are right that FF are not in control of this project, but it hasn't stopped them trying to destabilize it. If they can't stamp their name all over it, and rake in the backhanders, they'll do all they can to stop anyone else. It's what they do. You are beyond naïve to suggest party politics has no part in this.

I thought you said "unclear", that why I was confused, so apologies.

But if you want a rant at FF, I don't think this is the thread for your personal grievance; it's about the Event Centre. If you have issues, and you seem to be playing juvenile party politics, then focus on those with the most direct control over the project. Or maybe just do some rolleyes into the mirror.

flo8s967qjh0nd

Events over on Sullivan's Quay means that demolition (according to BAM, who are not known for their delivery on promises)of the former tax office could happen very shortly.
If so, it will be in BAM's interests to delay the event centre as long as possible. The event centre site is a perfect car park for the developers - has already been used as such for the Capitol and Western Road.
Luckily for them, there is no movement on further funding or planning permission so it's win-win for them. I don't expect construction of the hotel/offices at Sullivan's Quay to start any time soon. Just demolition.

Roger Hassenforder

Nancy Unkempt Shop wrote: »

Events over on Sullivan's Quay means that demolition (according to BAM, who are not known for their delivery on promises)of the former tax office could happen very shortly.
If so, it will be in BAM's interests to delay the event centre as long as possible. The event centre site is a perfect car park for the developers - has already been used as such for the Capitol and Western Road.
Luckily for them, there is no movement on further funding or planning permission so it's win-win for them. I don't expect construction of the hotel/offices at Sullivan's Quay to start any time soon. Just demolition.

Aye
be nicer for a construction company to have projects lined up after each other rather than run them concurrently.

flo8s967qjh0nd

This is getting very Game of Thrones
http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/perfectly-preserved-viking-sword-found-at-former-beamish-and-crawford-brewery-site-459677.html

Bacchus

Nancy Unkempt Shop wrote: »

This is getting very Game of Thrones
http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/perfectly-preserved-viking-sword-found-at-former-beamish-and-crawford-brewery-site-459677.html

Surprised this wasn't the headline...

Perfectly preserved shovel found at former Beamish and Crawford brewery site

Mumha

munstermagic11 wrote: »

But if you want a rant at FF, I don't think this is the thread for your personal grievance; it's about the Event Centre. If you have issues, and you seem to be playing juvenile party politics, then focus on those with the most direct control over the project. Or maybe just do some rolleyes into the mirror.

Horsesh1t. Anyone with the most basic knowledge of how Cork City has worked over the last 50 years, would know of the malign, corrupt influence of the builder's party. They were the ones who uniformly backed O'Callaghan, and they continue to snipe away, in the hope of scuppering a project that this city badly needs. There is no low to which they will not go.

j8wk2feszrnpao

Mumha wrote: »

Horsesh1t. Anyone with the most basic knowledge of how Cork City has worked over the last 50 years, would know of the malign, corrupt influence of the builder's party. They were the ones who uniformly backed O'Callaghan, and they continue to snipe away, in the hope of scuppering a project that this city badly needs. There is no low to which they will not go.

This has been a party political broadcast on behalf of (insert Mumha's party).

I've never voted FF, can't see it happening in the future either. But they are towards the lower end of blame for where the events centre is at the moment.

Meursault

munstermagic11 wrote: »

This has been a party political broadcast on behalf of (insert Mumha's party).

I've never voted FF, can't see it happening in the future either. But they are towards the lower end of blame for where the events centre is at the moment.

Agree with the above. FF were out of office long before the Event Centre was approved. The blame for this lies Bam for not working with Live Nation before they ploughed ahead with the original designs.

Mumha

munstermagic11 wrote: »

This has been a party political broadcast on behalf of (insert Mumha's party).

I've never voted FF, can't see it happening in the future either. But they are towards the lower end of blame for where the events centre is at the moment.

The lady doth protest too much ! For someone who's never voted FF, you sure defend them consistently. They have a record of f**king this city, including our "Taoiseach-in-waiting" who got his buddy Gantly to push through the vote to take the debt on Cork Airport.

If this incarnation of the Event Centre fails, FG (and specifically Coveney) will deservedly get hammered, but FF are the only ones out to bring this down.

j8wk2feszrnpao

Mumha wrote: »

The lady doth protest too much ! For someone who's never voted FF, you sure defend them consistently. They have a record of f**king this city, including our "Taoiseach-in-waiting" who got his buddy Gantly to push through the vote to take the debt on Cork Airport.

If this incarnation of the Event Centre fails, FG (and specifically Coveney) will deservedly get hammered, but FF are the only ones out to bring this down.

Ah grow up. I'm not defending them, I just don't have the obsession you have towards them. Serious paranoia on your part.

Mumha

munstermagic11 wrote: »

Ah grow up. I'm not defending them, I just don't have the obsession you have towards them. Serious paranoia on your part.

Nonsense. Your posts betray you. Anyone with even the most basic knowledge of what's gone on in Cork (and Irish) politics, could not ignore their malevolent influence. Most especially when it comes to construction related corruption.

KCAccidental

Looks like it's all coming to a head...

The Irish Examiner has learned that legal advisers on the stalled 6,000-seat venue, where costs have soared to almost €73m, have prepared advice on how much extra funding the State can commit to the project before the entire process is open to legal challenge.

Following a competitive tender process almost three years ago, the State sanctioned €20m in public funding. Former taoiseach Enda Kenny turned the sod on the former Beamish and Crawford brewery site on South Main St almost two years ago but construction has yet to start.

Following a complete redesign of the original venue last year, to ensure it would be commercially viable, the developers asked earlier this year for another €18m in state support for a larger venue. They said the costs had increased by €12m and that a €6m contingency fund was also needed.

Foreign Affairs Minister Simon Coveney said following weeks of legal scrutiny on that additional funding request, a draft recommendation on the figures is now ready. But he refused to be drawn on how much of the additional €18m the Government can sanction before the original competitive tender process is open to challenge.

It is understood that the legal and financial situation will be outlined to BAM and Live Nation, this week, who will then have to make a decision on whether to proceed on that basis or not.

Mr Coveney defended the latest delay and said the State had to go through a lengthy process to test the legal implications of the additional funding request.

“I’m happy now that we have a recommendation from the legal team in terms of what Government can and can’t do,” he said.

“It will be so much, and our legal advice says we can’t go anymore without actually looking at the (competitive tender) process all over again — which we certainly don’t want to do.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/crunch-talks-on-funding-for-cork-events-centre-460085.html

From Coveney's quote it doesn't look like they'll be getting 18m

gifted

KCAccidental wrote: »

Looks like it's all coming to a head...



http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/crunch-talks-on-funding-for-cork-events-centre-460085.html

From Coveney's quote it doesn't look like they'll be getting 18m

This is BAM they're dealing with....lol lol

j8wk2feszrnpao

Mumha wrote: »

Nonsense. Your posts betray you. Anyone with even the most basic knowledge of what's gone on in Cork (and Irish) politics, could not ignore their malevolent influence. Most especially when it comes to construction related corruption.

No one has denied their corrupt dealings. It's not the issue.
The Government, the City Council, BAM, Live Nation....... They are controlling this, not FF. that's the basics of this.
You deciding to rant and rave about FF is your own issue and paranoia.

flo8s967qjh0nd

KCAccidental wrote: »

Looks like it's all coming to a head...



http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/crunch-talks-on-funding-for-cork-events-centre-460085.html

From Coveney's quote it doesn't look like they'll be getting 18m

I've thought this for a while. Govt. will offer them around 12 million maximum. That way, Coveney can say that they did all they could. BAM will say it can't be done on that budget and (after months of 'talks') we'll hear that it isn't going ahead.

mire

Nancy Unkempt Shop wrote: »

I've thought this for a while. Govt. will offer them around 12 million maximum. That way, Coveney can say that they did all they could. BAM will say it can't be done on that budget and (after months of 'talks') we'll hear that it isn't going ahead.

For some reason I think this will still happen. I'm not sure what would motivate the developer and operator to go this far in the process if they really had no intention of developing and operating an event centre. My view is that they're trying to screw as much subvention out of the state as possible and are playing a long game.

Roger Hassenforder

Nancy Unkempt Shop wrote: »

I've thought this for a while. Govt. will offer them around 12 million maximum. That way, Coveney can say that they did all they could. BAM will say it can't be done on that budget and (after months of 'talks') we'll hear that it isn't going ahead.

FFS, at this stage they (City Council/Dept.Arts) should just pull the plug, and go back to tender.

BAM are already looking for 18m with another million "contingency".
no doubt, there'll be more overruns with this; they're start piling and "lo", ground works have to be redesigned or some guff, off into dispute/arbitration for a few years.

They won the tender, Live Nation get involved, and we're straight away into redesign (notwithstanding their involvement in both bids!)

The excehquer is about to be rode bareback in this

flo8s967qjh0nd

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

FFS, at this stage they (City Council/Dept.Arts) should just pull the plug, and go back to tender.

BAM are already looking for 18m with another million "contingency".
no doubt, there'll be more overruns with this; they're start piling and "lo", ground works have to be redesigned or some guff, off into dispute/arbitration for a few years.

It's 12 million plus 6 million contingency. But, I hear where you're coming from.

Roger Hassenforder

Nancy Unkempt Shop wrote: »

It's 12 million plus 6 million contingency. But, I hear where you're coming from.

my bad!

any way you look at it, we're screwed.

Meursault

I think it will still go ahead also. Coveney and FG would have washed their hands of it months ago otherwise. There will be an election in the next 12 months. If the Event Centre was a dead duck, they would want that news out of the way and forgotten about long ago.

Or maybe it is just wishful thinking on my part.

It would be a shame and a massive loss for Cork, if it were to fall apart over 12 - 18m. It is pittance, in the grand scheme of things, and it will also bring a lot of revenue to the city. The cost over run would be recovered within a few years.

I hate bringing these comparisons up, but if it was in Dublin they would have secured the extra funding long ago. All of these large infrastructure projects run over budget.

nlrkjos

It will go ahead or Coveney is goosed...some scam bringing Enda down to toss a sod before an election, he won't get away with it again. Problem is really if BAM want it to go ahead, maybe they are quite happy to sit on it as a builders yard for a year or two and then deck it out as student apartments, it's probably pension fund money being invested and they will be happier with a steady income rather than the hit and miss of an event center. I do hope it goes ahead as we really need it for the center of the city as it is slowly dying on its feet.Concerts,conferences and indoor sporting events generate a lot of business, although it might spell the end for the Opera house, unless they can re-invent themselves with some competition to play against.

snotboogie

nlrkjos wrote: »

I do hope it goes ahead as we really need it for the center of the city as it is slowly dying on its feet.Concerts,conferences and indoor sporting events generate a lot of business, although it might spell the end for the Opera house, unless they can re-invent themselves with some competition to play against.

Is it? Even compared to 18 months ago there seems to be a lot more activity in the city centre. Two major construction projects finished in the last 12 months, one major and a few average sized ones are ongoing with six or seven more in various stages of planning permission, not even including the events centre. There seems to be a general (but slow) trend of offices moving to the city and away from business parks, UCC is expanding, there are a few hotels under construction with more in planning, there seems to be new restaurants (of varying quality) opening every week and the city proper (rather than the suburbs) actually grew between the last two census. Cork is hardly Barcelona in the summer and there are still some genuinely decrepit areas but I'd hardly describe the city as dying on its feet either, if anything it's on a slow upward trajectory which has become visibly noticeable in the last year or two.

MrDerp

snotboogie wrote: »

Is it? Even compared to 18 months ago there seems to be a lot more activity in the city centre. Two major construction projects finished in the last 12 months, one major and a few average sized ones are ongoing with six or seven more in various stages of planning permission, not even including the events centre. There seems to be a general (but slow) trend of offices moving to the city and away from business parks, UCC is expanding, there are a few hotels under construction with more in planning, there seems to be new restaurants (of varying quality) opening every week and the city proper (rather than the suburbs) actually grew between the last two census. Cork is hardly Barcelona in the summer and there are still some genuinely decrepit areas but I'd hardly describe the city as dying on its feet either, if anything it's on a slow upward trajectory which has become visibly noticeable in the last year or two.

I'm hearing this too. Rumour has it Clearstream are moving from the airport business park into Navigation Square, and Ronan Daly Jermyn are moving back into town - the obvious location would seem to be the new development on the mall