Events Centre

Roger Hassenforder

Live nation was involved in both bids (BAM and the O'Callaghan bid) and inially pulled out of the tender process.

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/new-50m-concert-venue-gets-green-light-in-cork-30857034.html

Nobody is coming out of this smelling of roses. But ultimately the buck stops with the project management team, City Council.

While it would be great to have it, what will be the cost? Legally, i cant see how a tender was awarded, which was substantially changed, will be allowed stand without being sued. More money down the drain.

This needs to be killed, and started again, rather than standing with our cap in hand hoping Dept will throw the few more bob that BAM are gouging.
Maybe as a joint authority capital project.

rebs23

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

Live nation was involved in both bids (BAM and the O'Callaghan bid) and inially pulled out of the tender process.

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/new-50m-concert-venue-gets-green-light-in-cork-30857034.html

Nobody is coming out of this smelling of roses. But ultimately the buck stops with the project management team, City Council.

While it would be great to have it, what will be the cost? Legally, i cant see how a tender was awarded, which was substantially changed, will be allowed stand without being sued. More money down the drain.

This needs to be killed, and started again, rather than standing with our cap in hand hoping Dept will throw the few more bob that BAM are gouging.
Maybe as a joint authority capital project.

Too late, if this event center doesn’t get the extra funding then Limerick and Waterford will proceed with their plans for an event center for Munster and we’ll be left behind. It is absolutely vital for Cork that this event center gets the extra funding.
There wasn’t a problem with funding convention centers in Dublin and subventions for the Bord Gais energy theatre. There isn’t a problem allowing a different local authority to borrow 170 million to build offices in the middle of a housing crisis in a region with a 20 per cent vacancy rate.
Why is it so difficult to secure funding for infrastructure for Cork the only place in regional Ireland that is expanding rapidly both in population growth and employment growth?

kub

rebs23 wrote: »

Too late, if this event center doesn’t get the extra funding then Limerick and Waterford will proceed with their plans for an event center for Munster and we’ll be left behind. It is absolutely vital for Cork that this event center gets the extra funding.
There wasn’t a problem with funding convention centers in Dublin and subventions for the Bord Gais energy theatre. There isn’t a problem allowing a different local authority to borrow 170 million to build offices in the middle of a housing crisis in a region with a 20 per cent vacancy rate.
Why is it so difficult to secure funding for infrastructure for Cork the only place in regional Ireland that is expanding rapidly both in population growth and employment growth?

Spine less politicians.

Roger Hassenforder

rebs23 wrote: »

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

Live nation was involved in both bids (BAM and the O'Callaghan bid) and inially pulled out of the tender process.

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/new-50m-concert-venue-gets-green-light-in-cork-30857034.html

Nobody is coming out of this smelling of roses. But ultimately the buck stops with the project management team, City Council.

While it would be great to have it, what will be the cost? Legally, i cant see how a tender was awarded, which was substantially changed, will be allowed stand without being sued. More money down the drain.

This needs to be killed, and started again, rather than standing with our cap in hand hoping Dept will throw the few more bob that BAM are gouging.
Maybe as a joint authority capital project.

Too late, if this event center doesn’t get the extra funding then Limerick and Waterford will proceed with their plans for an event center for Munster and we’ll be left behind. It is absolutely vital for Cork that this event center gets the extra funding.
There wasn’t a problem with funding convention centers in Dublin and subventions for the Bord Gais energy theatre. There isn’t a problem allowing a different local authority to borrow 170 million to build offices in the middle of a housing crisis in a region with a 20 per cent vacancy rate.
Why is it so difficult to secure funding for infrastructure for Cork the only place in regional Ireland that is expanding rapidly both in population growth and employment growth?

The fact we're even mentioning these cities (one is a large town) in the same breath suggests theres something not quiet right in Cork, or we could be something doing better.
Kub has it above, maybe it is the politicans are not excercising enough "muscle" at national level. Our roads are second class compared to Limerick. Even Sligo has decent road infrastructure around it. Sligo. Not a pot to piss in otherwise.
How long has the Limerick Cork motorway been shelved before the latest promise?
I think part of the problem is we want to be more like Dublin. Why not be even moar Cork and completely fricking different, not just a smaller scale Dublin. We've massive potential with the harbour.

Sell something different. Surely a BCA can demonstrate what an event centre is worth to the economy and the return on investment, and the 2 Councils come together and build it.

namloc1980

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

The fact we're even mentioning these cities (one is a large town) in the same breath suggests theres something not quiet right in Cork, or we could be something doing better.
Kub has it above, maybe it is the politicans are not excercising enough "muscle" at national level. Our roads are second class compared to Limerick. Even Sligo has decent road infrastructure around it. Sligo. Not a pot to piss in otherwise.
How long has the Limerick Cork motorway been shelved before the latest promise?
I think part of the problem is we want to be more like Dublin. Why not be even moar Cork and completely fricking different, not just a smaller scale Dublin. We've massive potential with the harbour.

Sell something different. Surely a BCA can demonstrate what an event centre is worth to the economy and the return on investment, and the 2 Councils come together and build it.

Cork is always lumped in as a "regional city" with Galway, Limerick and Waterford by government even though it's nearly as big as the 3 of them together. When it comes to infrastructure it's seen at the same level as these other places by the powers that be and so the resources are watered down. Government only see Dublin and then everywhere else. Look at the bike scheme in Cork. Infinitely more successful that the Galway and Limerick schemes but NTA and the Dept of Transport refuse to expand the Cork scheme because the other two aren't successful!

Roger Hassenforder

namloc1980 wrote: »

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

The fact we're even mentioning these cities (one is a large town) in the same breath suggests theres something not quiet right in Cork, or we could be something doing better.
Kub has it above, maybe it is the politicans are not excercising enough "muscle" at national level. Our roads are second class compared to Limerick. Even Sligo has decent road infrastructure around it. Sligo. Not a pot to piss in otherwise.
How long has the Limerick Cork motorway been shelved before the latest promise?
I think part of the problem is we want to be more like Dublin. Why not be even moar Cork and completely fricking different, not just a smaller scale Dublin. We've massive potential with the harbour.

Sell something different. Surely a BCA can demonstrate what an event centre is worth to the economy and the return on investment, and the 2 Councils come together and build it.

Cork is always lumped in as a "regional city" with Galway, Limerick and Waterford by government even though it's nearly as big as the 3 of them together. When it comes to infrastructure it's seen at the same level as these other places by the powers that be and so the resources are watered down. Government only see Dublin and then everywhere else. Look at the bike scheme in Cork. Infinitely more successful that the Galway and Limerick schemes but NTA and the Dept of Transport refuse to expand the Cork scheme because the other two aren't successful!

Why the feck are we putting up with it.
We need a Corkexit!

kub

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

Why the feck are we putting up with it.
We need a Corkexit!

Says he on a Dublin site. ;);)

fonzy951

rebs23 wrote: »

Too late, if this event center doesn’t get the extra funding then Limerick and Waterford will proceed with their plans for an event center for Munster and we’ll be left behind. It is absolutely vital for Cork that this event center gets the extra funding.
There wasn’t a problem with funding convention centers in Dublin and subventions for the Bord Gais energy theatre. There isn’t a problem allowing a different local authority to borrow 170 million to build offices in the middle of a housing crisis in a region with a 20 per cent vacancy rate.
Why is it so difficult to secure funding for infrastructure for Cork the only place in regional Ireland that is expanding rapidly both in population growth and employment growth?

Live Nation wouldn't get involved in running an event centre in Waterford or Limerick, makes no economic sense, even Cork is only just about big enough. Remember without a proper operator such as Live Nation which can bring in regular quality events and run it properly, the whole events centre would be an economic farce.

Roger Hassenforder

kub wrote: »

Says he on a Dublin site. ;);)

It'll be the first to go, in my new world

j8wk2feszrnpao

fonzy951 wrote: »

Live Nation wouldn't get involved in running an event centre in Waterford or Limerick, makes no economic sense, even Cork is only just about big enough. Remember without a proper operator such as Live Nation which can bring in regular quality events and run it properly, the whole events centre would be an economic farce.

Waterford yes, but Limerick would be middle ground for Cork-Limerick-Galway in terms of centering it between those areas, esp if the Limerick-Cork motorway went ahead.

It'd be a huge lost opportunity for Cork if this gets scrapped. The city council should hang their head in shame. They are a stakeholder, they should be driving this in terms of project management (the design agreed by all parties, watertight contracts written up...), and it's in their jurisdiction.

People have mentioned the lack of political influence, and they aren't wrong.

kub

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

It'll be the first to go, in my new world

Your location tag reminds me, we have our own. If somewhat limited, if you know what i mean

fonzy951

munstermagic11 wrote: »

Waterford yes, but Limerick would be middle ground for Cork-Limerick-Galway in terms of centering it between those areas, esp if the Limerick-Cork motorway went ahead.

It'd be a huge lost opportunity for Cork if this gets scrapped. The city council should hang their head in shame. They are a stakeholder, they should be driving this in terms of project management (the design agreed by all parties, watertight contracts written up...), and it's in their jurisdiction.

People have mentioned the lack of political influence, and they aren't wrong.

Metropolian Cork has population of 400K and the County overall 560K, where else would make economic sense outside of Dublin, especially when your running regular weekly events etc. Limerick is still 100km from both Cork and Galway, I honestly don't think Live Nation would take that risk.

Also Cork has 30M funding for the EC and even that is barely enough to get this thing moving. It was mentioned in the Limerick Leader a few months back that Limerick Council were putting 1 million aside for an EC by 2020, so no need to panic just yet.

j8wk2feszrnpao

fonzy951 wrote: »

Limerick is still 100km from both Cork and Galway

I know plenty of people that have taken the trip from Cork to Dublin, ~250km, for concerts. Should the motorway go ahead and it's just 1hr to Limerick, then it may not be an issue for Live Nation. For places in Kerry such as Killarney/Tralee, it's not much difference to travel to Cork or Limerick.
I could see someone like JP throw a significant amount of money towards the funding as well.
It's not a case of panic, neither may work out in the end; just a shame that the process itself has been mismanaged this badly.

CHealy

Those who think Limerick or Waterford have the population center to support a full time 5000+ event center are off yer heads, Cork barely passes that stress test from what Iv heard and thus Live Nations insistence that its an incredibly versatile center which is shooting the costs up.

Meursault

CHealy wrote: »

Those who think Limerick or Waterford have the population center to support a full time 5000+ event center are off yer heads, Cork barely passes that stress test from what Iv heard and thus Live Nations insistence that its an incredibly versatile center which is shooting the costs up.

Agree with this.

Nevertheless, aside from Coveney, I dont see too many politicians in South Central or North Central pushing this at a national level. There are some big profile politicians around that I dont need to name out. I am just wondering why are they so silent on this. It would sicken me if the likes of M Martin, M McGrath and B Kelliher were playing party politics with this. Its too f**king important for Cork not to be all pulling in the same direction on this issue.

j8wk2feszrnpao

CHealy wrote: »

Those who think Limerick or Waterford have the population center to support a full time 5000+ event center are off yer heads, Cork barely passes that stress test from what Iv heard and thus Live Nations insistence that its an incredibly versatile center which is shooting the costs up.

I'd be uncertain about Waterford, but Limerick is centrally positioned to have a chance (esp if JP got on board). Cork may be the obvious location, but it's set back after set back. Just cause Cork can't get its act together doesn't mean somewhere else couldn't.

Meursault wrote: »

It would sicken me if the likes of M Martin, M McGrath and B Kelliher were playing party politics with this.

Coveney is Cork's main man with the greatest political influence on this issue; and aside from his photo opportunity with the spade, he has done very little. He's in power, the others are not. I haven't seen anything to date to suggest Martin and his ilk have done anything to disrupt this going ahead.

CHealy

munstermagic11 wrote: »

I'd be uncertain about Waterford, but Limerick is centrally positioned to have a chance (esp if JP got on board). Cork may be the obvious location, but it's set back after set back. Just cause Cork can't get its act together doesn't mean somewhere else couldn't.

It has nothing to do with getting our act together, do you think JP can just come along and build a massive event center in Limerick and happy days? Screw your head on, these things are stress tested by specialists. Economy, population, wealth, access, history, growth, transport, and many more aspects are tested and reviewed, from what Iv been told Cork has just about passed the test to be compatible with a 5000+ event center, and Cork is bigger than the next three biggest cities put together. Limerick, Waterford or Galway will never have a center the size of what Cork is planning.

j8wk2feszrnpao

CHealy wrote: »

do you think JP can just come along and build a massive event center in Limerick and happy days?

Did I say that? No, I didn't.

CHealy wrote: »

Screw your head on

With such levels of intelligence, you can rant away on your own.

CHealy

munstermagic11 wrote: »

Did I say that? No, I didn't.


With such levels of intelligence, you can rant away on your own.

You've been called out on your rubbish and now you're running away

Good chatting bud, all the best with JP's empty event center.

fonzy951

munstermagic11 wrote: »

I know plenty of people that have taken the trip from Cork to Dublin, ~250km, for concerts. Should the motorway go ahead and it's just 1hr to Limerick, then it may not be an issue for Live Nation. For places in Kerry such as Killarney/Tralee, it's not much difference to travel to Cork or Limerick.
I could see someone like JP throw a significant amount of money towards the funding as well.
It's not a case of panic, neither may work out in the end; just a shame that the process itself has been mismanaged this badly.

Certain amount would travel alright, but its still hassle, probably have to stay a night in a hotel, after a few drinks etc.. adds cost. The younger generation would really be the target audience for a high percentage of events and this would definitely put some of them off etc..
JP would probably give a couple of million towards it alright, still the business case for having a 6,500 EC run by Live Nation in Limerick is pretty crap. Live Nation have insisted on 6,500 capacity for viability.

j8wk2feszrnpao

CHealy wrote: »

You've been called out on your rubbish and now you're running away

Good chatting bud, all the best with JP's empty event center.

I was speculating, nothing more.
You are bashing your poorly constructed argument "on what you heard".

Running away? That may be what enters your mind, but we don't all have that cowardly attitude.
And you're not looking for a chat, so get back to shouting at the wall.

j8wk2feszrnpao

fonzy951 wrote: »

Certain amount would travel alright, but its still hassle, probably have to stay a night in a hotel, after a few drinks etc.. adds cost. The younger generation would really be the target audience for a high percentage of events and this would definitely put some of them off etc..
JP would probably give a couple of million towards it alright, still the business case for having a 6,500 EC run by Live Nation in Limerick is pretty crap. Live Nation have insisted on 6,500 capacity for viability.

I agree that Limerick is unlikely, but who knows. Based on the people I know who travel to Dublin, an hour up the road may not be that off putting. It may be that it's Cork or bust, which unfortunately seems closer to the latter at the moment.

CHealy

munstermagic11 wrote: »

I was speculating, nothing more.
You are bashing your poorly constructed argument "on what you heard".

Running away? That may be what enters your mind, but we don't all have that cowardly attitude.
And you're not looking for a chat, so get back to shouting at the wall.

Are you saying what Iv heard is wrong? Maybe they dont stress test locations so, Limerick might get that center yet.

And I apologise, you didnt run away, I took from your comment "With such levels of intelligence, you can rant away on your own." that you were gone but sure you came back for another bite, fair play.

mire

Why are people seriously mentioning Limerick in this topic? It's entirely irrelevant. Cork might scrape an event centre in viability terms. Probably will do so.

j8wk2feszrnpao

CHealy wrote: »

Are you saying what Iv heard is wrong? Maybe they dont stress test locations so, Limerick might get that center yet.

And I apologise, you didnt run away, I took from your comment "With such levels of intelligence, you can rant away on your own." that you were gone but sure you came back for another bite, fair play.

No interesting in biting, you don't want a debate/chat, so you can rant to yourself.
Letting an ignorant contributor (using that term loosely) make a fool of himself is fine by me.

CHealy

munstermagic11 wrote: »

No interesting in biting, you don't want a debate/chat, so you can rant to yourself.
Letting an ignorant contributor (using that term loosely) make a fool of himself is fine by me.

Yet you keep replying to me..................

Meursault

munstermagic11 wrote: »

I'd be uncertain about Waterford, but Limerick is centrally positioned to have a chance (esp if JP got on board). Cork may be the obvious location, but it's set back after set back. Just cause Cork can't get its act together doesn't mean somewhere else couldn't.


Coveney is Cork's main man with the greatest political influence on this issue; and aside from his photo opportunity with the spade, he has done very little. He's in power, the others are not. I haven't seen anything to date to suggest Martin and his ilk have done anything to disrupt this going ahead.

without wanting to sound like a Coveney cheerleader, this actually isnt true. He could have walked away from this when he was made Minister for Foreign Affairs, but he is still very active in trying to resolve the current impasse. He has most to lose politically on this, so he could have easily distanced himself long ago.

As potentially the next Taoiseach, I am surprised at Micheal Martin's silence on the whole saga, especially given that it literally in his backyard.

Anyway, I believe there will be an update in the next few weeks, so hopefully it will be a step in the right direction.

CHealy

Meursault wrote: »

As potentially the next Taoiseach, I am surprised at Micheal Martin's silence on the whole saga, especially given that it literally in his backyard.

Think he had a say a few weeks back alright, called it for what it is, a mess.

CB19Kevo

INEC in Killarney can take 3000 if not more.
And Killarney is a small rural town, Do not discount Limerick.

Cork should be moving on with this project, however If other event centre's are built i don't believe it should stop the Cork development,
A county population of 550,000 should make the venture work if handled correctly.

Disappointing there has been no progress.

Roger Hassenforder

CHealy wrote: »

It has nothing to do with getting our act together, do you think JP can just come along and build a massive event center in Limerick and happy days? Screw your head on, these things are stress tested by specialists. Economy, population, wealth, access, history, growth, transport, and many more aspects are tested and reviewed, from what Iv been told Cork has just about passed the test to be compatible with a 5000+ event center, and Cork is bigger than the next three biggest cities put together. Limerick, Waterford or Galway will never have a center the size of what Cork is planning.

If you can diall back the tone, this will be a much nicer thread.

It has everything to do with getting our act together.

There is precedence.
Why is Musgrave Park a kip, and Thomond Park a world class stadium? If you think its due to some teary eyed nostalgia for the halcyon days of 78, ive some beans for sale.
One organization has been involved in both.