Events Centre

snotboogie

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

lest any Limerick man come on and berate us, I've played with and against Limerick teams years ago. It thought it was a very different attitude up there! I preferred their attitude to it, but it has changed a lot now I think.
I think the days of it being a "working class" game in limerick and a "middle class" game in Cork are long gone thankfully.

(Except in Con )

There is an ongoing reddit thread on the issue:
https://www.reddit.com/r/ireland/comments/7rj1i3/munster_rugby_and_cork_the_real_screw_job/

R/Ireland is more straight forward than the boards rugby crowd but the prevailing attitude is still suck it up and shut up. Again a lesson for the events centre

AugustusMinimus

The truth is that the tram should train where the majority of the team is based.

Having the base in Limerick when 2/3 of the team is based in Cork is crazy. Also, I feel it was a lot easier to get overseas players when they could base themselves in Cork. I think every single overseas player except for Jim Williams based themselves in Cork.

mire

Anyway, still discussing the complete irrelevant Limerick rugby analogy... How about Cork's event centre? What's it going to take to get it over the line? Another 10 million.? Will there be a double announcement around the launch of the Capital Investment Plan?

Roger Hassenforder

Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.

Roger Hassenforder

Silentcorner wrote: »

Munster are based in UL because they put the best offer to Munster, LIT put in a bid also, so did CIT, no one else...it was there for the taking....it's not worth a whole pile to the city anyway...

top end games worth about 12million/match to the city/region.

http://www.irishrugby.ie/mobile/news/17872.php

Silentcorner

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

top end games worth about 12million/match to the city/region.

http://www.irishrugby.ie/mobile/news/17872.php

I was referring to the Munster Training Ground/Academy....which could easily be in Cork if the will existed in Cork to go get it...the CIT bid was poor if memory serves me right...

The stadium is worth a lot of money to the city all right...but only to the pubs/hotels.....it absolutely kills retail all over the city....they never factor that in to these figures....

It is important that cities (and politicians) take a more holistic approach to these kinds of things...it is not just about money....

Roger Hassenforder

Silentcorner wrote: »

I was referring to the Munster Training Ground/Academy....which could easily be in Cork if the will existed in Cork to go get it...the CIT bid was poor if memory serves me right...

The stadium is worth a lot of money to the city all right...but only to the pubs/hotels.....it absolutely kills retail all over the city....they never factor that in to these figures....

It is important that cities (and politicians) take a more holistic approach to these kinds of things...it is not just about money....

Out of curiosity, how do you reckon it kills retail?

Meursault

This tread has gone way off topic.

Let Limerick worry about itself.

To be honest, at this stage, the best thing we can do is contact our elected TDs and remind them of the importance of getting the Event Centre over the line. There will be an election in the next 12 months. FF have no interest in propping up FG any more. The next 12 months are critical. Contact your local TDs. Tell them the Event Centre is a red line issue and you will not be voting for them or their party again, unless they get it sorted. There's no point coming on Boards any more and whinging about what Limerick or Dublin has. We need to be proactive about this. Its not that hard. They are all on twitter, they all have email addresses, etc. Leave out the rancour and insults and just point out to them how importance the EC is to Cork.

In fairness, most of the politicians want to the best for Cork too. I 100% believe that, regardless of which party they are in. Its time to remind them where our priorities lie, and what we want for our city and county. I doubt they come on to Boards to check out what is happening in terms of the electorate.

Silentcorner

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

Out of curiosity, how do you reckon it kills retail?

Any retailer will tell you...any game that is on between 1pm - 5pm on a Saturday in particular...

The State should be intervene in this debacle....(the Events Centre)...remember Galway is about to open its 350 seater arthouse cinema...at a cost to the local authority of €9million....

Roger Hassenforder

Silentcorner wrote: »

Any retailer will tell you...any game that is on between 1pm - 5pm on a Saturday in particular...

The State should be intervene in this debacle....(the Events Centre)...remember Galway is about to open its 350 seater arthouse cinema...at a cost to the local authority of €9million....

that Picture Palace has been an unmitigated disaster in public spending and oversight. GCC threatened to pull the plug several times, and eventually PM'd it themselves. it went way over budget.

flo8s967qjh0nd

Silentcorner wrote: »

The State should be intervene in this debacle....(the Events Centre)...remember Galway is about to open its 350 seater arthouse cinema...at a cost to the local authority of €9million....

That Galway cinema is not a good example to point to. An absolute disaster in terms of meeting deadlines and budget.
The event centre is rapidly becoming the new Picture Palace.

Silentcorner

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

that Picture Palace has been an unmitigated disaster in public spending and oversight. GCC threatened to pull the plug several times, and eventually PM'd it themselves. it went way over budget.

I am aware of what a debacle it is, but it should be shoved in the faces of public representatives....

If this thing is twisting in the wind, and it seems to be...then those public representatives need to be reminded that it won't be tolerated...if somehow a tiny niche arthouse cinema project can get bailed out then surely this project can be backed with State assistance....

If everything boils down to the economics of the project, then we may was well build nothing outside of Dublin...

Roger Hassenforder

Silentcorner wrote: »

I am aware of what a debacle it is, but it should be shoved in the faces of public representatives....

If this thing is twisting in the wind, and it seems to be...then those public representatives need to be reminded that it won't be tolerated...if somehow a tiny niche arthouse cinema project can get bailed out then surely this project can be backed with State assistance....

If everything boils down to the economics of the project, then we may was well build nothing outside of Dublin...

i'd be worried about following the model of the Picture Palace!
went nearly 40% over budget on a mickey mouse cinema.
the event centre is on a different scale altogether.
the way its going, it could be the public spending debacle of our generation!

mire

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

Silentcorner wrote: »

I am aware of what a debacle it is, but it should be shoved in the faces of public representatives....

If this thing is twisting in the wind, and it seems to be...then those public representatives need to be reminded that it won't be tolerated...if somehow a tiny niche arthouse cinema project can get bailed out then surely this project can be backed with State assistance....

If everything boils down to the economics of the project, then we may was well build nothing outside of Dublin...

i'd be worried about following the model of the Picture Palace!
went nearly 40% over budget on a mickey mouse cinema.
the event centre is on a different scale altogether.
the way its going, it could be the public spending debacle of our generation!

There has been no public money spent on the project, afaik? So not sure how it can be described as a public spending debacle.

Roger Hassenforder

mire wrote: »

There has been no public money spent on the project, afaik? So not sure how it can be described as a public spending debacle.

Its not...


could:
kəd,kʊd/

verb
past of can1.
used to indicate possibility.
"they could be right"


Look into the picture palace farce, smaller scale proect not without similarities. they havent even turned a sod (figuratively speaking) on the EC, and the public purse gouging has started.

mire

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

Its not...


could:
kəd,kʊd/

verb
past of can1.
used to indicate possibility.But if
"they could be right"


Look into the picture palace farce, smaller scale proect not without similarities. they havent even turned a sod (figuratively speaking) on the EC, and the public purse gouging has started.

I am glad that there has been no public money spent on the event centre project, yet. As frustrating as it is, the delay should ensure that the project only proceeds when there is confidence that the project is viable. Just imagine the controversy that would have emerged if the project had commenced before additional monies had been requested and secured.

What happened in Galway sounds like a scandal. What's happening in cork, with the event centre, however is a controversy. That controversy relates to a very significant delay, and not the inappropriate use of public money.

I'm not really sure why there's so much discussion here about Galway and limerick on this thread. The Galway cinema and Thomond park analogies are entirely irrelevant to the cork event centre story.

Roger Hassenforder

The discussion re. Galway and Limerick relate to wasted/improperly spent public money and loss of a capital infrastructure to an adjacent city respectively.

If we're not willling/able to learn from past mistakes where LAs were involved in private/public cultural amenities i fear for the future

Roger Hassenforder

looks like FF are proposing a tent:


https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/renewed-calls-to-scrap-72m-stalled-events-centre-in-cork-466418.html

Frostybrew

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

looks like FF are proposing a tent:


https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/renewed-calls-to-scrap-72m-stalled-events-centre-in-cork-466418.html

FF sure like their tents

Meursault

What a half-arsed solution. Who wants to walk down to some derelict, sh*thole dockland in the lashing rain to watch a concert in a glorified marquee?

This is pathetic.

j8wk2feszrnpao

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

looks like FF are proposing a tent:
https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/renewed-calls-to-scrap-72m-stalled-events-centre-in-cork-466418.html

I think we are going to have to face up to this not going ahead at all, Event Center is dead. A cock up by the City Council right from the start.
A tent as an alternative? Probably end up facing additional costs as well and get scrapped.

Roger Hassenforder

Meursault wrote: »

What a half-arsed solution. Who wants to walk down to some derelict, sh*thole dockland in the lashing rain to watch a concert in a glorified marquee?

This is pathetic.

Next Ophelia, that thing is in Mitchelstown

namloc1980

Looks like the Titanic exhibition Centre in Belfast. Brutal proposal. Why do we always end up with someone proposing the cheapest possible rubbish they can think up.

fonzy951

munstermagic11 wrote: »

I think we are going to have to face up to this not going ahead at all, Event Center is dead. A cock up by the City Council right from the start.
A tent as an alternative? Probably end up facing additional costs as well and get scrapped.

The decision on the extra 10m funding is tied with the release of the NDP, sometime in Feb, we'll finally know the outcome then.

City Council are bang average overall, but lack of funding is the real problem here. They've gone cap in hand to our financial masters in Dublin hoping for the nod, f**k all else they can really do. The amount of money Cork city and County generates overall for the state and we have to deal this b*lls**t from Dublin, city council need to get tough with this crowd and make some noise.
The state of the roads on some of the quays etc. is shocking (Anderson's and Camden Quay). City council can't even afford tarmac for roads in the heart of the city FFS.

who_me

munstermagic11 wrote: »

I think we are going to have to face up to this not going ahead at all, Event Center is dead. A cock up by the City Council right from the start.
A tent as an alternative? Probably end up facing additional costs as well and get scrapped.

How is it the Council's fault? BAM underestimated the costs by €18m - before they've even started construction - and the council are to blame?

grogi

who_me wrote: »

How is it the Council's fault? BAM underestimated the costs by €18m - before they've even started construction - and the council are to blame?

Do you honestly believe that? Or was the bid too low on purpose to win the tender and then, when time starts ticking, start asking for more money?

Council are to blame if the bids are not sufficiently screened for feasibility and financially secured.

AugustusMinimus

Our local politics are a disgrace. What sort of a fool in Ken O’Flynn.

Meursault

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Our local politics are a disgrace. What sort of a fool in Ken O’Flynn.

A cynic would be inclined to believe that Ken O'Flynn would be happy to see Event Centre plan fail, given that it would most likely hurt FG in the next election.

I hope his supporters dont forget this in the next election.

Roger Hassenforder

who_me wrote: »

How is it the Council's fault? BAM underestimated the costs by €18m - before they've even started construction - and the council are to blame?

Live Nation were involved in both bids, and originally pull out due to potential contract penalties.

BAM awarded contract, shortly thereafter come back looking for 18m more, (due to advice from LN who were involved on both bids!!)

City Council are the PM on behalf of the exchequer. City Council should have told them fcuk off, and retender. Even if they come up with the 18m extra, OCallaghan no doubt will sue.
Buck stops squarely with City Council.

mire

OCP will not sue.