Events Centre

snotboogie

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

Live Nation were involved in both bids, and originally pull out due to potential contract penalties.

BAM awarded contract, shortly thereafter come back looking for 18m more, (due to advice from LN who were involved on both bids!!)

City Council are the PM on behalf of the exchequer. City Council should have told them fcuk off, and retender. Even if they come up with the 18m extra, OCallaghan no doubt will sue.
Buck stops squarely with City Council.

To be fair the City Council were probably under massive pressure to get this over the line by any means necessary, imagine the uproar if they told BAM and OCP to retender and they both pulled out. BAM (and OCP) were inexperienced in this sort of project and to live nation this whole thing was small potatoes and they probably felt they were doing the project a favour by being involved in the first place. A lack of interest (from live nation) and a lack of experience (from CCC and BAM) seem to be the main reasons why we are where we are.

EnzoScifo

That tent structure was used down on the Marquee site about 8 or 9 years ago wasn't it? Have vague memories of something like that

Edit: found it https://web.archive.org/web/20100627172954/http://arceventcentre.ie/

Roger Hassenforder

snotboogie wrote: »

To be fair the City Council were probably under massive pressure to get this over the line by any means necessary, imagine the uproar if they told BAM and OCP to retender and they both pulled out. BAM (and OCP) were inexperienced in this sort of project and to live nation this whole thing was small potatoes and they probably felt they were doing the project a favour by being involved in the first place. A lack of interest (from live nation) and a lack of experience (from CCC and BAM) seem to be the main reasons why we are where we are.

I agree City Council have been dealt a sh1tty enough hand, but they still havent played it very well.
BAM have plenty of capital projects experience, City not as much other than the main drainage scheme and tunnel. Senior staff involved in both are probably retired.
OCallaghans and BAM both brought LN in. If the winning tender was so "unviable", and requiring such significant changes to design, youd wonder is there a stroke being pulled.

flo8s967qjh0nd

I agree that OCP have zero interest in suing.
Expect extra funding to come through as part of the government plan in the next few weeks. What happens then is anybody's guess.

who_me

grogi wrote: »

Do you honestly believe that? Or was the bid too low on purpose to win the tender and then, when time starts ticking, start asking for more money?

Council are to blame if the bids are not sufficiently screened for feasibility and financially secured.

Ah, in that case I agree.

I thought you were blaming the council for not providing more funds. I agree it's very dubious that after being awarded the tender BAM have changed the proposal twice and increased the demands for funds significantly.

who_me

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

Live Nation were involved in both bids, and originally pull out due to potential contract penalties.

BAM awarded contract, shortly thereafter come back looking for 18m more, (due to advice from LN who were involved on both bids!!)

City Council are the PM on behalf of the exchequer. City Council should have told them fcuk off, and retender. Even if they come up with the 18m extra, OCallaghan no doubt will sue.
Buck stops squarely with City Council.

As unhappy as I am with the current situation, if the Council had done that everyone would be blaming them for that too.

I don't know if the original budget was sufficient for the original/current plans, but I don't know how the Council could have foreseen Live Nation would demand significant, costly changes after the tender is won.

As I understand it now, €10m is the maximum that can be awarded without re-opening the tender, so either BAM don't get as much as they're requesting, or nothing at all, or the tender is re-opened.

thejuggler

EnzoScifo wrote: »

That tent structure was used down on the Marquee site about 8 or 9 years ago wasn't it? Have vague memories of something like that

Edit: found it https://web.archive.org/web/20100627172954/http://arceventcentre.ie/

You're right. There was a toys for big boys show there and some kind of star wars event. I assumed at the time it was going to be there long term.

Anyone know what happened?

Roger Hassenforder

who_me wrote: »

As unhappy as I am with the current situation, if the Council had done that everyone would be blaming them for that too.

I don't know if the original budget was sufficient for the original/current plans, but I don't know how the Council could have foreseen Live Nation would demand significant, costly changes after the tender is won.

As I understand it now, €10m is the maximum that can be awarded without re-opening the tender, so either BAM don't get as much as they're requesting, or nothing at all, or the tender is re-opened.

theres a serious whiff off whats going on.
BAM are back looking for another 90% of the original public pot of allocated cash after winning the tender, due to design changes on their side that were recommended by their partner who was involved in the tender...

that stinks.
unpalatable and disappointing as it is, I think the plug has to be pulled.

j8wk2feszrnpao

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

theres a serious whiff off whats going on.
BAM are back looking for another 90% of the original public pot of allocated cash after winning the tender, due to design changes on their side that were recommended by their partner who was involved in the tender...

that stinks.
unpalatable and disappointing as it is, I think the plug has to be pulled.

And kick BAM out of there immediately rather than a parking/staging location for their benefit.

Markcheese

Who owns the site? Bam? Or another party altogether?

BullBlackNova

Markcheese wrote: »

Who owns the site? Bam? Or another party altogether?

BAM. They bought it from Heineken somewhere between being awarded the tender and starting work.

According to City Hall and just about everyone else involved in this, the only money spent so far has been BAM's. No public money handed over or anything yet.

who_me

So as I understand it, BAM want 18m more but 10m is the maximum without it going back to tender?

If so there are some pretty horrible alternatives:
- BAM get no increase, event centre is cancelled.
- BAM get no increase, they build the original plans (would Live Nation still be on board?)
- BAM get (up to) 10m, we get a half-assed proposal that costs more than we intended and isn't what Live Nation want either.
- It goes back to re-tender. Who's still interested?

Meursault

who_me wrote: »

So as I understand it, BAM want 18m more but 10m is the maximum without it going back to tender?

If so there are some pretty horrible alternatives:
- BAM get no increase, event centre is cancelled.
- BAM get no increase, they build the original plans (would Live Nation still be on board?)
- BAM get (up to) 10m, we get a half-assed proposal that costs more than we intended and isn't what Live Nation want either.
- It goes back to re-tender. Who's still interested?

I am guessing will get the additional 10m, in which case, the following will happen:

1. They find an additional investor to make up the shortfall of 8m
2. They remove some of the "bells and whistles" to make the additional 10m work.
3. They walk away and the project is cancelled. Step forward Ken O Flynn et al, to build a glorified tent - a more permanent marquee, in other words.

One other possible solution that i've heard is that funding is provided indirectly - that is - any upgrades need to the roads and infrastructure around the Event Centre, which may have been included in the original cost, may be picked up by local or national govt.

I'd be delighted with option 1, accept option 2, and would be seriously p*ssed off with option 3.

Frostybrew

I think Events Centres, Food Hubs, Museums, and Convention Centres are just a ploy to get planning permission for apartments and offices.

Roger Hassenforder

BullBlackNova wrote: »

BAM. They bought it from Heineken somewhere between being awarded the tender and starting work.

According to City Hall and just about everyone else involved in this, the only money spent so far has been BAM's. No public money handed over or anything yet.

Some small public money/time is being wasted entertaining this farce though, salaries in Dept Arts, City Council etc.
No cheques in the post AFAIK at least.

Roger Hassenforder

Meursault wrote: »

I am guessing will get the additional 10m, in which case, the following will happen:

1. They find an additional investor to make up the shortfall of 8m
2. They remove some of the "bells and whistles" to make the additional 10m work.
3. They walk away and the project is cancelled. Step forward Ken O Flynn et al, to build a glorified tent - a more permanent marquee, in other words.

One other possible solution that i've heard is that funding is provided indirectly - that is - any upgrades need to the roads and infrastructure around the Event Centre, which may have been included in the original cost, may be picked up by local or national govt.

I'd be delighted with option 1, accept option 2, and would be seriously p*ssed off with option 3.

1: ideal
2: would do. Is there 8mill worth of bells and whistles though? Cinema already going.
3. Disappointing, but Id live with it. Be no harm to lay down a marker. They can shove that feckin tent too.

4 smacks of robbing Peter to pay Paul, just taking the money from a differerent public cash pot to avoid giving them the full 18mill directly. Would we back into Planning/Part 8?
Might be an irish solution to an irish problem

BullBlackNova

As far as I recall, the €18million that BAM asked for from the government included €6m of "contingency funds" so it was just €12 million that was definitely needed.

In that sense, if the €10 million is approved (which I expect it to be. I mean, Coveney has tied himself to this project and is now Tánaiste. If he can't use a bit of sway to push it through then what is he even there for?), it might not be too much of a stretch for the other €2 million to be accounted for. Obviously, it should be BAM/Live Nation that do it, but maybe Heineken would stump up for the exclusive rights to the taps at the finished centre or something along those lines? I'm sure these centres have all sorts of commercial deals attached.

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

Some small public money/time is being wasted entertaining this farce though, salaries in Dept Arts, City Council etc.
No cheques in the post AFAIK at least.

And you are 100% correct here, of course.

kub

No wonder The Event Centre is not happening any time soon, seems like someone has issues with maths.

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/12m-mistake-could-hold-up-82m-cork-port-development-court-hears-826493.html

EnzoScifo

I wish I could call BAM what I want to call them, but I don't want to get boards in trouble with the lawyers.

Rhys Essien

So a second big project going to be held up because of Bam.:mad::mad:

AugustusMinimus

BAM should now be excluded from all government tenders. This is absolutely ridiculous.

P.lane78

Rhys Essien wrote: »

So a second big project going to be held up because of Bam.:mad::mad:

Jeez ....shameful stuff ....looks like they have form ...is it incompetence or sneaky tender winning methods

namloc1980

Fair play to the Port of Cork. No messing around. Take them straight to court.

nlrkjos

EnzoScifo wrote: »

I wish I could call BAM what I want to call them, but I don't want to get boards in trouble with the lawyers.

I worked with one of BAM's top guys years back when he was not so top, gets his mug into a lot of photo shoots these days on big projects....his nickname was "the bungalow"...12m maths mistake !!!! yep, definitely a bungalow.;)

P.lane78

Bam ....busy at maths .....not

flo8s967qjh0nd

This whole thing stinks.

namloc1980

So today is the 2 year anniversary of the now infamous sod turning and apparently funding is now agreed.

Deal Agreed for Stalled €73m Cork Events Centre

Movement at last or another false dawn?

leahyl

Construction “could begin” before end of 2018....I’m not holding my breath

BullBlackNova

He said all the partners would require formal approval for their funding streams, and the approvals should be in place before the end of this month.

He said a new planning approval would be required for the enlarged venue, and that detailed design, to “construction levels of detail”, was still required. However, he said he was confident that construction would start in the third quarter of the year.

So planning and design is still needed?... This wouldn't scream 'deal agreed' to me.

AugustusMinimus

John P Feheen is against the Event Centre on the Exsminer Facebook page. This must mean it’s a brilliant idea.