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Events Centre

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    #1262
    rebs23
    Registered Users Posts: 572 ✭✭✭rebs23


    Please, please let the Further Information be submitted, planning granted and we get on with it now.


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    #1263
    Dbu
    Registered Users Posts: 1,085 ✭✭✭Dbu


    I wonder when will we hear from BAM? If at all


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    #1264
    rob316
    Registered Users Posts: 18,104 ✭✭✭✭rob316


    Please happen, the city needs it. Large conventions and indoor gigs in Cork would be amazing. We need this to compete with Dublin more.


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    #1265
    Markcheese
    Registered Users Posts: 8,467 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    Is it going to have an easy run through planning though.? It's a very different building to what was granted permission originally.. Could well end up being fired off to an Bord planeala...

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



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    #1266
    Dbu
    Registered Users Posts: 1,085 ✭✭✭Dbu


    Dbu wrote: »
    I wonder when will we hear from BAM? If at all

    Not a word from BAM, my guess is that all parties are at loggerheads and the announcement before Christmas was orchestrated by government to keep us happy for another few months and move the pressure from them directly onto BAMS shoulders.
    I really now am of the opinion that this is dead in the water
    Am I right in thinking that BAM now actually own the site outright? Did they buy out Heineken? I may be wrong.


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    #1267
    Meursault
    Registered Users Posts: 459 ✭✭Meursault


    Dbu wrote: »
    Not a word from BAM, my guess is that all parties are at loggerheads and the announcement before Christmas was orchestrated by government to keep us happy for another few months and move the pressure from them directly onto BAMS shoulders.
    I really now am of the opinion that this is dead in the water
    Am I right in thinking that BAM now actually own the site outright? Did they buy out Heineken? I may be wrong.

    How is it dead in the water when the extra funding was approved only a few weeks ago? What statement do you expect from BAM? Isnt the Event Centre awaiting planning approval? I am not sure why they would be making any statements or plans for the Event Centre, until they have the planning permission to proceed. "Dead in the water" is a bit OTT.

    Its like some people are desperate for this to fail, so they can tell everyone they knew it all along and nobody would listen.


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    #1268
    Dbu
    Registered Users Posts: 1,085 ✭✭✭Dbu


    Meursault wrote: »
    How is it dead in the water when the extra funding was approved only a few weeks ago? What statement do you expect from BAM? Isnt the Event Centre awaiting planning approval? I am not sure why they would be making any statements or plans for the Event Centre, until they have the planning permission to proceed. "Dead in the water" is a bit OTT.

    Its like some people are desperate for this to fail, so they can tell everyone they knew it all along and nobody would listen.

    So BAM have come back with further information on their financial contribution and about the new plans?? can you send me a link? Thanks


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    #1269
    snotboogie
    Registered Users Posts: 3,601 ✭✭✭snotboogie


    Meursault wrote: »
    How is it dead in the water when the extra funding was approved only a few weeks ago? What statement do you expect from BAM? Isnt the Event Centre awaiting planning approval? I am not sure why they would be making any statements or plans for the Event Centre, until they have the planning permission to proceed. "Dead in the water" is a bit OTT.

    Its like some people are desperate for this to fail, so they can tell everyone they knew it all along and nobody would listen.

    There is a request out for extra information from BAM relating to the planning, so the ball is in their court regarding the next step to move things along. I think it will be late January before they get back, at the earliest. Then it will have another month in the planning process with the city council before being approved and then most crucially one more month where it will be open for appeals. An appeal would set this back another 6 months minimum with ABP and would honestly threaten the viability of the whole process given the rising costs of construction. If it isn't appealed I think we'll see a summer start.


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    #1270
    flo8s967qjh0nd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 879 ✭✭✭flo8s967qjh0nd


    Simon Coveney's language before Christmas when announcing the extra funding was very interesting. Almost a 'take it or leave it' tone with no indication that he had even spoken to BAM about what happens next. It really seems as if BAM and the funders (i.e. government) aren't even speaking at this point.
    This COULD still go ahead but I don't think Coveney and his crew have any clue what fast one BAM are going to pull next. This is all to play for still.


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    #1271
    Cork Boy 53
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,829 ✭✭✭Cork Boy 53


    Nancy Unkempt Shop wrote: »
    Simon Coveney's language before Christmas when announcing the extra funding was very interesting. Almost a 'take it or leave it' tone with no indication that he had even spoken to BAM about what happens next. It really seems as if BAM and the funders (i.e. government) aren't even speaking at this point.
    This COULD still go ahead but I don't think Coveney and his crew have any clue what fast one BAM are going to pull next. This is all to play for still.

    And I could discover an oil well in my back garden.:rolleyes: Actually I think there is a much better chance of that happening than there is of any construction work on the events centre going ahead in 2019.


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    #1272
    AwaitYourReply
    Registered Users Posts: 1,735 ✭✭✭AwaitYourReply


    It would be fantastic to see a complete rejuvenation of not just the former Beamish & Crawford brewery site but also the whole of South Main Street and the adjoining streets which have suffered with so many business units out of action for a considerable period of time. These public/private partnerships are too complicated and fraught with problems and do not seem like the best model to advance such projects within a reasonable time-frame. If this ever proceeds, the construction costs will probably be way off given the prolonged delays with the project. There was similar frustrations and delays after the former School of Music premises on Union Quay was closed and by the time the new building was finally approved and actually opened. I also recall when Cork University Maternity Hospital (CUMH) was built, it lay there empty and unused for a long time before it was able to open and that was still before the economic downturn had hit!

    Meanwhile, I do sometimes wonder about the loss of traffic lanes for public transport/taxis/cabs/cars in the surrounding streets like(i.e.) South Main Street, Barrack Street, French's Quay etc; if the Cork Events Centre does eventually go ahead at the proposed former brewery site.


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    #1273
    who_me
    Registered Users Posts: 3,669 ✭✭✭who_me


    AwaitYourReply wrote: »
    It would be fantastic to see a complete rejuvenation of not just the former Beamish & Crawford brewery site but also the whole of South Main Street and the adjoining streets which have suffered with so many business units out of action for a considerable period of time. These public/private partnerships are too complicated and fraught with problems and do not seem like the best model to advance such projects within a reasonable time-frame. If this ever proceeds, the construction costs will probably be way off given the prolonged delays with the project. There was similar frustrations and delays after the former School of Music premises on Union Quay was closed and by the time the new building was finally approved and actually opened. I also recall when Cork University Maternity Hospital (CUMH) was built, it lay there empty and unused for a long time before it was able to open and that was still before the economic downturn had hit!

    Meanwhile, I do sometimes wonder about the loss of traffic lanes for public transport/taxis/cabs/cars in the surrounding streets like(i.e.) South Main Street, Barrack Street, French's Quay etc; if the Cork Events Centre does eventually go ahead at the proposed former brewery site.

    Tuckey St. isn't too bad now - several new small businesses open there - but South Main St. is very derelict. With all the student accommodation going up there, hopefully several more of those will start to be used again. Something on the river-side site (across the street from the proposed Event Centre location) would be great - it could incorporate a multi-storey car park if required.

    On the removal of lanes - I'm completely with you. It seems to me the bus and cycle lanes have far less usage than the traffic lanes they replaced; that's not good.


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    #1274
    j8wk2feszrnpao
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,438 ✭✭✭j8wk2feszrnpao


    Delay, after delay, after delay.
    https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/fears-for-cork-event-centre-as-state-classifies-9m-of-funding-as-loan-900434.html

    More money about to be wasted on legal advise, meetings, and more delays.
    City Councils management of this has been abysmal.
    Coveny full of BS as well.


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    #1275
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,409 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    munstermagic11 wrote: »
    Delay, after delay, after delay.
    https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/fears-for-cork-event-centre-as-state-classifies-9m-of-funding-as-loan-900434.html

    More money about to be wasted on legal advise, meetings, and more delays.
    City Councils management of this has been abysmal.
    Coveny full of BS as well.

    To be honest, Id rather Coveney was focused on his Ministerial brief which requires a lot of attention at this stage rather than trying to micromanage this dumpster fire


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    #1276
    j8wk2feszrnpao
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,438 ✭✭✭j8wk2feszrnpao


    marno21 wrote: »
    To be honest, Id rather Coveney was focused on his Ministerial brief which requires a lot of attention at this stage rather than trying to micromanage this dumpster fire
    If he wanted to stay clear, then stay clear. But he spouted more guff, long after he posed in that infamous picture.
    One wonders what they've all spent (public money) on legal advise by this stage.


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    #1277
    who_me
    Registered Users Posts: 3,669 ✭✭✭who_me


    As far as I'm concerned, BAM shouldn't have another public (or public-private) tender accepted in this country again, until all 3 major projects are delivered. The port relocation had a "€12 million euro budgeting error". The hotel development was approved, but has been left as a huge unsightly pile of rubble in the city centre with no sign of movement. And the Event Centre development has been repeatedly altered and scaled back, with the cost shooting through the roof, and no Event Centre yet started.

    Wouldn't it be nice if we stopped rewarding incompetence? (and it's arguable it's being charitable in assuming it's just incompetence).


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    #1278
    snotboogie
    Registered Users Posts: 3,601 ✭✭✭snotboogie


    who_me wrote: »
    As far as I'm concerned, BAM shouldn't have another public (or public-private) tender accepted in this country again, until all 3 major projects are delivered. The port relocation had a "€12 million euro budgeting error". The hotel development was approved, but has been left as a huge unsightly pile of rubble in the city centre with no sign of movement. And the Event Centre development has been repeatedly altered and scaled back, with the cost shooting through the roof, and no Event Centre yet started.

    Wouldn't it be nice if we stopped rewarding incompetence? (and it's arguable it's being charitable in assuming it's just incompetence).

    Fact is there isn't enough alternatives. Can anybody give a summary of the latest update? The 9 million is a loan and this was known by BAM but the City Council are getting legal advice about this? Is that correct?


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    #1279
    gifted
    Registered Users Posts: 4,898 ✭✭✭gifted


    who_me wrote: »
    As far as I'm concerned, BAM shouldn't have another public (or public-private) tender accepted in this country again, until all 3 major projects are delivered. The port relocation had a "€12 million euro budgeting error". The hotel development was approved, but has been left as a huge unsightly pile of rubble in the city centre with no sign of movement. And the Event Centre development has been repeatedly altered and scaled back, with the cost shooting through the roof, and no Event Centre yet started.

    Wouldn't it be nice if we stopped rewarding incompetence? (and it's arguable it's being charitable in assuming it's just incompetence).


    Have a guess who's doing the new children's hospital in dublin???......

    https://www.bam.com/en/press/press-releases/2017/8/bam-acquires-contract-for-the-new-childrens-hospital-project-dublin


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    #1280
    who_me
    Registered Users Posts: 3,669 ✭✭✭who_me


    gifted wrote: »
    Have a guess who's doing the new children's hospital in dublin???......

    https://www.bam.com/en/press/press-releases/2017/8/bam-acquires-contract-for-the-new-childrens-hospital-project-dublin

    THAT new hospital? Jesus!!


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    #1281
    gifted
    Registered Users Posts: 4,898 ✭✭✭gifted


    who_me wrote: »
    THAT new hospital? Jesus!!

    Yep...the one that's half a billion over budget already lol lol


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    #1282
    flo8s967qjh0nd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 879 ✭✭✭flo8s967qjh0nd


    snotboogie wrote: »
    Fact is there isn't enough alternatives. Can anybody give a summary of the latest update? The 9 million is a loan and this was known by BAM but the City Council are getting legal advice about this? Is that correct?

    I'm not sure it was known by BAM that this would be a loan. This certainly wasn't anything that was being floated before Christmas. I believe it came as a shock to them.
    That leaves them 9million down on funding the project from where they thought they would be. Sure, they could find 9m themselves no problem but that's not likely to happen.
    It seems like this is the latest crisis to hit this project and all issues that should have been foreseen at the tendering stage. I'm sure it will limp on for another 12 months anyway. It always does.


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    #1283
    snotboogie
    Registered Users Posts: 3,601 ✭✭✭snotboogie


    Nancy Unkempt Shop wrote: »
    I'm not sure it was known by BAM that this would be a loan. This certainly wasn't anything that was being floated before Christmas. I believe it came as a shock to them.
    That leaves them 9million down on funding the project from where they thought they would be. Sure, they could find 9m themselves no problem but that's not likely to happen.
    It seems like this is the latest crisis to hit this project and all issues that should have been foreseen at the tendering stage. I'm sure it will limp on for another 12 months anyway. It always does.

    Coveny said that it was a loan before Christmas. I remember because Neil asked him what the interest rate was on Redfm and he didn't answer


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    #1284
    PreCocious
    Registered Users Posts: 393 ✭✭PreCocious


    It doesn't help the City Council that every councillor seems to be screaming from the rooftops that BAM should get extra money each time they look for it.

    Maybe the councillors should be saying "Sorry BAM, you've taken us for a ride and we're not putting up for it any longer".


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    #1285
    flo8s967qjh0nd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 879 ✭✭✭flo8s967qjh0nd


    This has to go ahead or everybody looses. I don't know anybody involved who stands to gain from this not going ahead (except maybe the taxpayer, but that's debatable).
    That being said, I am not at all confident it will go ahead.


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    #1286
    questionmark?
    Registered Users Posts: 3,074 ✭✭✭questionmark?


    Nancy Unkempt Shop wrote: »
    This has to go ahead or everybody looses. I don't know anybody involved who stands to gain from this not going ahead (except maybe the taxpayer, but that's debatable).
    That being said, I am not at all confident it will go ahead.

    In the long run the taxpayer will lose out as a successful event centre will generate money for the economy.


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    #1287
    Meursault
    Registered Users Posts: 459 ✭✭Meursault


    The most frustrating part of all of this is that, relatively speaking, the additional amounts requested to get this going are so minuscule in comparison to some of the other monster over-runs down through the years - most of which were for Dublin projects.

    Leo was on the radio over the weekend, and he is so sanguine about the childrens' hospital potentially costing EUR 2bn. In the space of a few years, the cost of that alone has gone up by around EUR 500m. The Event Centre could fail on the terms of an additional EUR 9m.

    Fair enough, the children's hospital is much more important, but still, at least the Event Centre will be a revenue generator that eventually pays for itself.

    All the hand-wringing and controversy about the cost over-runs for the Event Centre. For God's sake, if this was Dublin there would just be a collective shrug of the shoulders and everyone would say cost be-damned, the thing needs to be built.


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    #1288
    Markcheese
    Registered Users Posts: 8,467 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    Give bam a virtual blank cheque, and see how much this will end up costing the state, just another 9 million, oh we had to change the design to meet planning, more money please. New foundation design more money please.
    Construction costs have gone up, more money please. The fit out needs to be done, more money please.
    It'll just keep going...

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



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    #1289
    Meursault
    Registered Users Posts: 459 ✭✭Meursault


    Markcheese wrote: »
    Give bam a virtual blank cheque, and see how much this will end up costing the state, just another 9 million, oh we had to change the design to meet planning, more money please. New foundation design more money please.
    Construction costs have gone up, more money please. The fit out needs to be done, more money please.
    It'll just keep going...

    Yeah ok.

    I was just pointing out the fact that there is a completely difference attitude to cost over-runs, depending on where something is being built. I never said I was happy that it was costing more that we were initially told.


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    #1290
    rob316
    Registered Users Posts: 18,104 ✭✭✭✭rob316


    BAM are defrauding the taxpayer with their gross underbidding on contracts. Nothing is ever getting done.


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    #1291
    Markcheese
    Registered Users Posts: 8,467 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    rob316 wrote: »
    BAM are defrauding the taxpayer with their gross underbidding on contracts. Nothing is ever getting done.

    That was carillioins policy in the UK too, price low and make on the extras and oh that wasn't in the contract stuff, they went bust.
    I reckon bam is a legal firm with a construction arm...

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



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