Events Centre

rob316

Markcheese wrote: »

That was carillioins policy in the UK too, price low and make on the extras and oh that wasn't in the contract stuff, they went bust.
I reckon bam is a legal firm with a construction arm...

Extras? They are intentionally underbidding, to get the contracts.

Roger Hassenforder

Markcheese wrote: »

I reckon bam is a legal firm with a construction arm...

Thats a good one!

flo8s967qjh0nd

Business groups have come out today and called for progress on the event centre. It's only taken them 3 years.
https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/Business-groups-We-need-certainty-and-accountability-on-events-centre-project-or-Corks-economy-will-suffer-982aed36-6440-4837-81d3-2a6e245af62a-ds

nlrkjos

https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/City-Hall-planning-chief--No-work-on-events-centre-before-local-elections-fc8a6dec-8607-44d7-a670-fced47cfe4aa-ds

Years away !!!!

j8wk2feszrnpao

nlrkjos wrote: »

https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/City-Hall-planning-chief--No-work-on-events-centre-before-local-elections-fc8a6dec-8607-44d7-a670-fced47cfe4aa-ds

Years away !!!!

Total mismanagement by the City Council and Coveney was just spoofing. Thread can be locked at this point, it ain't happening.

flo8s967qjh0nd

munstermagic11 wrote: »

Total mismanagement by the City Council and Coveney was just spoofing. Thread can be locked at this point, it ain't happening.

Years away. That's so dissapointing but can't say we didn't all see the writing on the wall 12 months ago.
This isn't happening. All sides need to admit defeat and move on. Lets look at using that public money to support an alternative approach. Event Centre at the dockland/R&H Hall site?

nlrkjos

Put it down in Ballydehob...........about as realistic as The Beamish site, new crop of cllrs coming in in May will just say "not my fault"

Curb Your Enthusiasm

Coveney stringing us all along,on the radio, in the media. What an absolute disgrace.

mire

Nancy Unkempt Shop wrote: »

Years away. That's so dissapointing but can't say we didn't all see the writing on the wall 12 months ago.
This isn't happening. All sides need to admit defeat and move on. Lets look at using that public money to support an alternative approach. Event Centre at the dockland/R&H Hall site?

Why change the location and what difference will it make to the viability

Markcheese

Curb Your Enthusiasm wrote: »

Coveney stringing us all along,on the radio, in the media. What an absolute disgrace.

Don't think Coveneys a disgrace, he's been strung along same as everyone else, (not that he comes out glowing either).
If he'd had no position, or always said "nothing to do with me" he'd be slagged off for not getting behind the project, to get it moving.
But I bet he wishes he'd never been in that turning the sod photo..

snotboogie

nlrkjos wrote: »

https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/City-Hall-planning-chief--No-work-on-events-centre-before-local-elections-fc8a6dec-8607-44d7-a670-fced47cfe4aa-ds

Years away !!!!

Why are City Council asking for legal advice and who are they waiting for updates from? Two simple questions that the media and other councilors can't seem to muster. Asking the council when the Event Centre will start is a stupid question, when they will clear the way for BAM to provide the additional info for planning is a far more important question.

Fabio

Markcheese wrote: »

Don't think Coveneys a disgrace, he's been strung along same as everyone else, (not that he comes out glowing either).
If he'd had no position, or always said "nothing to do with me" he'd be slagged off for not getting behind the project, to get it moving.
But I bet he wishes he'd never been in that turning the sod photo..

My opinion as well.

the beer revolu

Fabio wrote: »

My opinion as well.

Ah, now.
Everything is always the politicians fault!
Everything.

Roger Hassenforder

In fairness to Coveney, he took more than a passing interest in the Hawlbowline tip remediation, and gave it a big push along

BazzFan123

I strongly believe if Simon wasn't involved with this it would have died years ago. He might not be getting visible results yet but the project is still alive which, while not desirable, is much better than dead in the water and no plans for another anytime soon. And the event centre space will never suddenly become student apartments. BAM will have to apply for apartments (assuming the site is zoned for them) and the public are free to object to this and appeal a grant of approval.

Markcheese

BazzFan123 wrote: »

I strongly believe if Simon wasn't involved with this it would have died years ago. He might not be getting visible results yet but the project is still alive which, while not desirable, is much better than dead in the water and no plans for another anytime soon. And the event centre space will never suddenly become student apartments. BAM will have to apply for apartments (assuming the site is zoned for them) and the public are free to object to this and appeal a grant of approval.

Not suddenly, but if and when the event centre project dies, there's nothing to stop bam applying for planning permission for something else, even if City Council are pissed at them, they'll have to legally treat the proposal fairly, as will an Bord pleanála, and you can guarantee there'll be some public realm addition to the plan, like an arts centre, heritage site, preferably something that can be dropped half way through, (think cinema or something for the counting House, and food centre thingy for the capitol building), they might follow through with a Bord walk...

who_me

Markcheese wrote: »

Not suddenly, but if and when the event centre project dies, there's nothing to stop bam applying for planning permission for something else, even if City Council are pissed at them, they'll have to legally treat the proposal fairly, as will an Bord pleanála, and you can guarantee there'll be some public realm addition to the plan, like an arts centre, heritage site, preferably something that can be dropped half way through, (think cinema or something for the counting House, and food centre thingy for the capitol building), they might follow through with a Bord walk...

Weren't there lots of these in the original plans, which have already been dropped?

snotboogie

Markcheese wrote: »

even if City Council are pissed at them, they'll have to legally treat the proposal fairly, as will an Bord pleanála, and you can guarantee there'll be some public realm addition to the plan, like an arts centre, heritage site, preferably something that can be dropped half way through, (think cinema or something for the counting House, and food centre thingy for the capitol building), they might follow through with a Bord walk...

This is an important site to the city centre and needs a project which will benefit the public realm. Done deal. Dublin City Council do this successfully all of the time, CCC would have zero legal issues rejecting student accommodation

Acosta

They'll probably end up building more horrible student accommodation there instead. If people want things to be done properly then they're going to have to stop voting for shysters.

flo8s967qjh0nd

BazzFan123 wrote: »

I strongly believe if Simon wasn't involved with this it would have died years ago. He might not be getting visible results yet but the project is still alive which, while not desirable, is much better than dead in the water and no plans for another anytime soon. And the event centre space will never suddenly become student apartments. BAM will have to apply for apartments (assuming the site is zoned for them) and the public are free to object to this and appeal a grant of approval.

The site is zoned for student accomodation along with a variety of other uses. It will be a very easy task to get planning once the event centre fiasco is finally put out of its misery. The sooner the better.

Curb Your Enthusiasm

So the general consensus is that the events centre probably will never happen?

BazzFan123

They could probably stop it if they really want to. Argue the density of student apartments in the area is too high, like how they did/were going to with a restaurant looking to open on Washington Street

nlrkjos

Curb Your Enthusiasm wrote: »

So the general consensus is that the events centre probably will never happen?

It will happen, I just think it won't happen on the Beamish site, too much money to be made with students..coffee shops and supermarkets (24hrs). Down the docklands is where it should be, might get city council off their ass and get some decent transport system up and going.

the beer revolu

Curb Your Enthusiasm wrote: »

So the general consensus is that the events centre probably will never happen?

3 years ago, the general concensus here was that it would never happen.

namloc1980

nlrkjos wrote: »

It will happen, I just think it won't happen on the Beamish site, too much money to be made with students..coffee shops and supermarkets (24hrs). Down the docklands is where it should be, might get city council off their ass and get some decent transport system up and going.

Why do you think the council would do this? They have absolutely zero statutory power or budget to implement any form of public transport.

mire

nlrkjos wrote: »

It will happen, I just think it won't happen on the Beamish site, too much money to be made with students..coffee shops and supermarkets (24hrs). Down the docklands is where it should be, might get city council off their ass and get some decent transport system up and going.

Can you explain to me why this project would be viable in the Docklands and not in the existing location. I have heard this alternative location idea from a few posters and no one has explained how a new location wood transform the financial viability issue.

I suspect the project will go ahead. I know it's attractive, but I simply don't buy into the conspiracy theories. By the way there is 0 hope that the City Council would Grant permission for a student accommodation on the rest of the site. Just because one particular land use is broadly permissible in principle doesn't mean that the Planning Authority can not refuse it on a very wide range of criteria.

hans aus dtschl

mire wrote: »

Can you explain to me why this project would be viable in the Docklands and not in the existing location. I have heard this alternative location idea from a few posters and no one has explained how a new location wood transform the financial viability issue.

I suspect the project will go ahead. I know it's attractive, but I simply don't buy into the conspiracy theories. By the way there is 0 hope that the City Council would Grant permission for a student accommodation on the rest of the site. Just because one particular land use is broadly permissible in principle doesn't mean that the Planning Authority can not refuse it on a very wide range of criteria.

Because I likes driving me car from Dungourney/Macroom right in to de City, so the marina is the only logical spot for me.

Seriously though, a lot of people can't imagine not using their cars and the idea of an events centre like this in a not-car-friendly location is a tough one for them to comprehend. If you live in an estate somewhere like Kilavullen, Donoughmore or Riverstick, you're not going to like the idea of using public transport and/or cycling.

This is the Cork issue in a nutshell: the County is trying to encourage sprawl in/to car-dependent "dormitory" towns like Youghal / Watergrasshill / Inishannon whereas the City is trying to encourage core density. I'd say until such time as the centre is fully pedestrianised (other than taxi/public transport/cycle) then this type of discussion will continue.

snotboogie

mire wrote: »

Can you explain to me why this project would be viable in the Docklands and not in the existing location. I have heard this alternative location idea from a few posters and no one has explained how a new location wood transform the financial viability issue.

I suspect the project will go ahead. I know it's attractive, but I simply don't buy into the conspiracy theories. By the way there is 0 hope that the City Council would Grant permission for a student accommodation on the rest of the site. Just because one particular land use is broadly permissible in principle doesn't mean that the Planning Authority can not refuse it on a very wide range of criteria.

This! I get the frustration on this thread but I don't get the conspiracy theories. We are where we are because people with a lack of experience in getting these sort of venues done ****ed up. It's not some grand long term masterplan to turn the whole site into student accommodation.

Flesh Gorden

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

Seriously though, a lot of people can't imagine not using their cars and the idea of an events centre like this in a not-car-friendly location is a tough one for them to comprehend.

I'm of the same opinion, the Beamish site never made sense to me.

It's not even just access to cars, but no matter what measures you put in place, people will try to drive as close as possible with their kids.

Look at the mess in the mornings in the surrounding area, when people are dropping their kids to 1 of the 3 schools, or on their way towards UCC.



The docklands have the two things that the Beamish site will never have and that's surrounding space and ease of access.

It's space for the multiple private coaches, taxis, emergency vehicles and the vast number of contractors that will need full access all day.


The brewery area, there's little to nothing you can do, other than locking down the surrounding streets for a full 24hrs during events.

I always felt that Kennedy Quay is an ideal location for an event centre where you have empty sites like the old Odlums building, that aren't far off in area space to the Point Depot in Dublin.



There's already plans in place to build a boardwalk and floating pontoon along Albert Quay, along with the upgrades to Victoria Road.

Combine that with the Water Street Bridge, if it ever gets built and you have two points of access that will clear people as fast as possible to the existing bus and train stations.


Add to that, the idea of a Luas system, which will definitely need to run somewhere near the docklands, if it's going from Kent station and including Pairc Uí Caoimh.

And a park and ride at Dunkettle and all of a sudden, you have the making of a transport plan that doesn't bring the city to a grinding halt, every time there's an event going on and gets people on their way home, as quickly and easily as possible.

Curb Your Enthusiasm

Why don't they just pedestrianise most of the city centre? Have multiple park and rides for different outskirt areas of the city and only allow buses and taxis in the city centre (i.e. areas inside the river)