Events Centre

who_me

the beer revolu wrote: »

3 years ago, the general concensus here was that it would never happen.

Nice to have some consistency in a world gone mad... :P

mire

Flesh Gorden wrote: »

I'm of the same opinion, the Beamish site never made sense to me.

It's not even just access to cars, but no matter what measures you put in place, people will try to drive as close as possible with their kids.

Look at the mess in the mornings in the surrounding area, when people are dropping their kids to 1 of the 3 schools, or on their way towards UCC.



The docklands have the two things that the Beamish site will never have and that's surrounding space and ease of access.

It's space for the multiple private coaches, taxis, emergency vehicles and the vast number of contractors that will need full access all day.


The brewery area, there's little to nothing you can do, other than locking down the surrounding streets for a full 24hrs during events.

I always felt that Kennedy Quay is an ideal location for an event centre where you have empty sites like the old Odlums building, that aren't far off in area space to the Point Depot in Dublin.



There's already plans in place to build a boardwalk and floating pontoon along Albert Quay, along with the upgrades to Victoria Road.

Combine that with the Water Street Bridge, if it ever gets built and you have two points of access that will clear people as fast as possible to the existing bus and train stations.


Add to that, the idea of a Luas system, which will definitely need to run somewhere near the docklands, if it's going from Kent station and including Pairc Uí Caoimh.

And a park and ride at Dunkettle and all of a sudden, you have the making of a transport plan that doesn't bring the city to a grinding halt, every time there's an event going on and gets people on their way home, as quickly and easily as possible.

2 things

How does this change of location influence the issue of viability ?

When considering an ideal location for such a facility the last thing we should aim for is to make sure that people get in and out as quickly and easily as possible. I think you have missed the point about how to maximize the regeneration benefits of such a facility. It should be placed in the location with maximum economic benefit.

timmyjimmy

mire wrote: »

When considering an ideal location for such a facility the last thing we should aim for is to make sure that people get in and out as quickly and easily as possible. I think you have missed the point about how to maximize the regeneration benefits of such a facility. It should be placed in the location with maximum economic benefit.

Hardly maximum economic benefit when the whole place grinds to a halt with traffic.

who_me

mire wrote: »

2 things

How does this change of location influence the issue of viability ?

When considering an ideal location for such a facility the last thing we should aim for is to make sure that people get in and out as quickly and easily as possible. I think you have missed the point about how to maximize the regeneration benefits of such a facility. It should be placed in the location with maximum economic benefit.

No, that's not the sole criterion for the location. Ease of ingress/egress. Impact on nearby traffic. Environmental impact (noise/pollution/public order etc.). Ease of access for emergency services in the event of an incident. Suitability of site for purpose and scope for changes/expansion if needed in future. Potential for location to drive new developments in area. And I'm sure many more.

I'm not saying the current (hah!) location is a poor one, but you can't make the decision based on on factor alone; and ignore all else.

mire

who_me wrote: »

No, that's not the sole criterion for the location. Ease of ingress/egress. Impact on nearby traffic. Environmental impact (noise/pollution/public order etc.). Ease of access for emergency services in the event of an incident. Suitability of site for purpose and scope for changes/expansion if needed in future. Potential for location to drive new developments in area. And I'm sure many more.

I'm not saying the current (hah!) location is a poor one, but you can't make the decision based on on factor alone; and ignore all else.

When the taxpayer is subsidising the project to the tune of 30 million euro this should be the priority. In other words the project should be evaluated against maximising economic spin-off. The South Main Street site received planning so all of the other environmental criteria were considered.

gifted

https://www.rte.ie/news/2019/0319/1037239-cork-event-centre/

A bit if interest

snotboogie

gifted wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/2019/0319/1037239-cork-event-centre/

A bit if interest

Within the past two weeks barristers working for Cork City Council finalised a legal review of the proposal to make €9m of the overall funds a loan. That advice will not make things easier, Cork City Council is not happy about the loan. To further the woes of the Cork Event Centre some city councillors and local politicians have slammed the lack of transparency on the issue. They say most of the talks on the project have happened in secret, Prime Time requested minutes of some meetings but we were told they couldn’t be released as the process was ongoing. If the city council is to take on a €9m loan to make this project happen, it will need a majority of councillors to vote and back such a move. Given criticism about councillors being cut out of the process to date, getting their sign off on such a loan, may be difficult. Some councillors have told Prime Time they would not back the proposal.

The most damning update in a long long time

j8wk2feszrnpao

snotboogie wrote: »

The most damning update in a long long time

Saw it earlier. The City Council have been inept in all of this.
Would like to see the amount of money wasted on legal advise at this stage.

TheChizler

I thought the loan was to the developers, not the Council. So the Council would ultimately be funding the extra €9M?

kub

So Simon and Bam will now be able to blame Cork City Council.


Meanwhile Bam were today erecting a 3rd tower crane on the site, on the side which the Non Event Center was to be constructed.

j8wk2feszrnpao

kub wrote: »

So Simon and Bam will now be able to blame Cork City Council.

Plenty of blame to go about, but as the ones who awarded the contract to BAM and are overseeing this mess, the City Council are most to blame.

Itssoeasy

Piece on it now on prime time.

JP Liz V1

gifted wrote: »

Have a guess who's doing the new children's hospital in dublin???......

https://www.bam.com/en/press/press-releases/2017/8/bam-acquires-contract-for-the-new-childrens-hospital-project-dublin

Has some of Cork Events Centre money gone to the Hospital?

kravmaga

https://www.rte.ie/news/2019/0319/1037239-cork-event-centre/

Itssoeasy

Jesus it's only been one a few minutes and cork city council and the whole thing comes across very badly.

Itssoeasy

"A sensitive stage"

kravmaga

All very media shy , BAM CEO , local TD'S etc

Itssoeasy

BAM again involved in a mess.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

Didn't BAM get the planing permission for the old Capital Cinema site based on the fact they would build a food court that involved the English Market? That would have been such a big attraction for the City Centre. I don't know why it never got built, but it does strike me as acting in bad faith.

Markcheese

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

Didn't BAM get the planing permission for the old Capital Cinema site based on the fact they would build a food court that involved the English Market? That would have been such a big attraction for the City Centre. I don't know why it never got built, but it does strike me as acting in bad faith.

BAM were the builders at the capitol, but not the developers (that was jcd), so not really their thing,

Padraig Mor

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

Didn't BAM get the planing permission for the old Capital Cinema site based on the fact they would build a food court that involved the English Market? That would have been such a big attraction for the City Centre. I don't know why it never got built, but it does strike me as acting in bad faith.

It seems to be a pretty well worn scam:

O'Callaghan bought the Mahon Point site for many millions less than it was worth on the back of a promise to build an even centre. It never happened.

JCD / BAM promise to build a food court in the Capitol. It never happens.

BAM promise to build an event centre as part of an overall accommodation / retail development. It (very likely) never happens.

And yet people keep accepting the developers' bona fides with these trojan horses - some people here were saying that OCP should have been awarded the 'new' event centre as "they'd have it built by now", despite their con with Mahon Point.

Think there was something similar in Cobh a few years back, where there was uproar when a mixed apartment / marina development was shot down on the back of objections - what ere the chances the marina would never had been built?

the beer revolu

Wasn't it the traders in the English Market who put a stop to the food court?

BullBlackNova

the beer revolu wrote: »

Wasn't it the traders in the English Market who put a stop to the food court?

https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/food-hall-proposal-for-corks-capitol-site-abandoned-418955.html

It was the developers - said that without additional backing, a food court would not be commercially viable.

John Cleary Developments (JCD) said following extensive research, and a national and international marketing campaign for the proposed food hall, it emerged that without state-sponsored support, it would not be commercially viable. JCD said planning restrictions around hot food and take-out offerings were also prohibitive.

The firm said concerns were raised by market trader representatives about the potential impact the food hall may have on the historic market.

The food hall concept, which had been endorsed by Housing Minister Simon Coveney, had been flagged as one of the more exciting elements of the regeneration, with hopes it would link with the site’s neighbouring English Market to showcase the city’s food heritage and local produce.

snotboogie

Padraig Mor wrote: »

It seems to be a pretty well worn scam:

O'Callaghan bought the Mahon Point site for many millions less than it was worth on the back of a promise to build an even centre. It never happened.

JCD / BAM promise to build a food court in the Capitol. It never happens.

BAM promise to build an event centre as part of an overall accommodation / retail development. It (very likely) never happens.

And yet people keep accepting the developers' bona fides with these trojan horses - some people here were saying that OCP should have been awarded the 'new' event centre as "they'd have it built by now", despite their con with Mahon Point.

Think there was something similar in Cobh a few years back, where there was uproar when a mixed apartment / marina development was shot down on the back of objections - what ere the chances the marina would never had been built?

The unfortunate reality is that Cork doesn't have the scale to negotiate seriously with developers. Cork needs JCD, OCP and BAM a lot more than they need Cork. While a food court would have been nice, ultimately the goal of the city council was to get a viable redevelopment of the Capitol cinema.

flo8s967qjh0nd

According to one city councillor I spoke to this morning, they are angry that they "weren't given an opportunity" to speak to RTE for the primetime report. Real anger now among councillors at the way they were portrayed on primetime.

who_ru

Really what’s needed now is a single straightforward announcement that the events centre is not going to happen as it’s pretty obvious it isn’t. All concerned look very amateur in this, the way it’s ended up just increases cynicism all round. Time to put it to bed.

tototoe

who_ru wrote: »

Really what’s needed now is a single straightforward announcement that the events centre is not going to happen as it’s pretty obvious it isn’t. All concerned look very amateur in this, the way it’s ended up just increases cynicism all round. Time to put it to bed.

before an election? Are you mad? :pac:

who_me

Is the Event Centre now Cork's "Brexit"? It'll be easy, they said. Starting any day now, they said.

Markcheese

The food thing in the capitol was always a bit ropey... Something not very well explained or thought through that was always destined to be dropped, (as to why the developers thought they needed to throw that kind of a "sop" in?)
The cinema part of the counting house was similar,

smurgen

Markcheese wrote: »

The food thing in the capitol was always a bit ropey... Something not very well explained or thought through that was always destined to be dropped, (as to why the developers thought they needed to throw that kind of a "sop" in?)
The cinema part of the counting house was similar,

The redevelopment of the capitol is one of the biggest let down in year.after the failed building of the events centre that is.