Events Centre

Markcheese

smurgen wrote: »

The redevelopment of the capitol is one of the biggest let down in year.after the failed building of the events centre that is.

What's the let down? It's an office building with some retail ( and a bar/restaurant), fully let?
The facade looks quite good coming up Washington Street..(better than what was there previously )

Roger Hassenforder

Decision pushed back to July3.
3 months extension to the request for further information.

smurgen

Markcheese wrote: »

What's the let down? It's an office building with some retail ( and a bar/restaurant), fully let?
The facade looks quite good coming up Washington Street..(better than what was there previously )

It's a sports shop and a homeware store.the kind of businesses that I'd prefer see in a retail park.the bar is boring and generic.almost no character at all.how about something different for once? The city has become so stagnant bar places like the Kino that are a great example of the potential places can have.

flo8s967qjh0nd

Amazing 'update' from the city council today. If you didn't think this was a dead man walking already, you will now. Might as well shut down this thread.
https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/City-Hall-refusing-Freedom-of-Information-requests-because-of-sensitive-nature-of-events-centre-talks--8ba68651-305d-42c7-b279-2f5b10bb9b99-ds

Roger Hassenforder

So if "funding certainty is secured", it has to go back to the Dept and Europe for approval, before its put in front of BAM with a "are you still interested"?

In fcukin fairness, what an omnishambles.

Markcheese

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

So if "funding certainty is secured", it has to go back to the Dept and Europe for approval, before its put in front of BAM with a "are you still interested"?

In fcukin fairness, what an omnishambles.

With the increase in construction costs there's not a chance that the city councils element will be enough to get this over the line now,

j8wk2feszrnpao

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

In fcukin fairness, what an omnishambles.

It's over. Now it's just a case of who takes the blame.

According to Fergal Dennehy (FF), the Council should seek legal advice on going back out to tender for the project because of the increases in costs, while the Solidarity party's Fiona Ryan said the event centre project is now about the “profit margins for the private operators”.
“This could have been 100% public funded. The private sector is the reason we do not have an events centre,” she added.

This is a City Council project. Their management of this has been amateur (at best).

Markcheese

munstermagic11 wrote: »

It's over. Now it's just a case of who takes the blame.

According to Fergal Dennehy (FF), the Council should seek legal advice on going back out to tender for the project because of the increases in costs, while the Solidarity party's Fiona Ryan said the event centre project is now about the “profit margins for the private operators”.
“This could have been 100% public funded. The private sector is the reason we do not have an events centre,” she added.

This is a City Council project. Their management of this has been amateur (at best).

The last thing we need is a 100% city council owned and, City Council run event centre..
.... City Council were chucking some capital at a project, for the public good. they didn't own the site, they weren't going to own the building, and didn't want to run the end business....
I reckon if Heineken had still owned the site it'd have been built and done by now, but bam have other fish to fry....
The other large private project from the same era that was state assisted was Páirc Uí Chaoimh. That Got built... (with a few issues true, but once they remembered it needed a playing surface, they got on it...)

Roger Hassenforder

Markcheese wrote: »

The last thing we need is a 100% city council owned and, City Council run event centre..
.... City Council were chucking some capital at a project, for the public good. they didn't own the site, they weren't going to own the building, and didn't want to run the end business....
I reckon if Heineken had still owned the site it'd have been built and done by now, but bam have other fish to fry....
The other large private project from the same era that was state assisted was Páirc Uí Chaoimh. That Got built... (with a few issues true, but once they remembered it needed a playing surface, they got on it...)

The last thing we need is no event centre!
I hope this isnt what we end up with.

snotboogie

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

The last thing we need is no event centre!
I hope this isnt what we end up with.

If this proposal falls apart that's what we will get. I'm as frustrated as anybody but the worst news that can come out is one of the big parties (BAM, Live Nation, CCC or central govt) pulling out.

who_me

munstermagic11 wrote: »

It's over. Now it's just a case of who takes the blame.

According to Fergal Dennehy (FF), the Council should seek legal advice on going back out to tender for the project because of the increases in costs, while the Solidarity party's Fiona Ryan said the event centre project is now about the “profit margins for the private operators”.
“This could have been 100% public funded. The private sector is the reason we do not have an events centre,” she added.

This is a City Council project. Their management of this has been amateur (at best).

If it is dead, this is now the second time that a developer pulled the "give us permission for this development and it'll include an event centre", and then built the development without it.

Meursault

There's some amount of people on here declaring this project "dead" or "finished".

The fact is, unless you work in BAM, or the City Council, you're just engaging in speculation, and have no idea what is really happening.

j8wk2feszrnpao

Meursault wrote: »

There's some amount of people on here declaring this project "dead" or "finished".

The fact is, unless you work in BAM, or the City Council, you're just engaging in speculation, and have no idea what is really happening.

Of course it's speculation, but it's based on history and how the project has progressed/stalled. And at this point I doubt if there's anyone in BAM or the Council that really knows how this is going to pan out.

who_me

Meursault wrote: »

The fact is, unless you work in BAM, or the City Council, you're just engaging in speculation, and have no idea what is really happening.

Or also, if you DO work in BAM or the City Council.

Meursault

munstermagic11 wrote: »

Of course it's speculation, but it's based on history and how the project has progressed/stalled. And at this point I doubt if there's anyone in BAM or the Council that really knows how this is going to pan out.

Yes, that's right. So basically, no one really knows what will happen in the coming months.

There is a possibility that the project will be officially cancelled, but that is far from confirmed at this stage.

It doesn't stop people from announcing the death of the event centre on this forum, every time there is the slightest murmur in the press about it though. Its like some posters are desperate for its demise.

smurgen

Meursault wrote: »

Yes, that's right. So basically, no one really knows what will happen in the coming months.

There is a possibility that the project will be officially cancelled, but that is far from confirmed at this stage.

It doesn't stop people from announcing the death of the event centre on this forum, every time there is the slightest murmur in the press about it though. Its like some posters are desperate for its demise.

Can you blame people for being cynical?

Roger Hassenforder

Meursault wrote: »

Yes, that's right. So basically, no one really knows what will happen in the coming months.

There is a possibility that the project will be officially cancelled, but that is far from confirmed at this stage.

It doesn't stop people from announcing the death of the event centre on this forum, every time there is the slightest murmur in the press about it though. Its like some posters are desperate for its demise.

We're all just speculating. I doubt anyone would gloat if this doesnt go ahead, because if it doesnt, we've all lost out. Yea, maybe soneone might gloat with a "i told you so". But its a rather hollow victory.
Me, i'll be very disappointed my kids wont have a world class venue in Cork, and will have to trudge to Dublin to the BG or O3.

j8wk2feszrnpao

Meursault wrote: »

Yes, that's right. So basically, no one really knows what will happen in the coming months.

There is a possibility that the project will be officially cancelled, but that is far from confirmed at this stage.

It doesn't stop people from announcing the death of the event centre on this forum, every time there is the slightest murmur in the press about it though. Its like some posters are desperate for its demise.

Who doesn't want it to go ahead? No poster has said they don't want it to succeed.
We're speculating, and it's not based on the slightest murmur, it's based on constant delays, deadlines and promises not being fulfilled, photo opportunities rather than progress, City Hall refusing Freedom of Information requests, and previous form like the Events/Conference Center in Mahon (or maybe you think that has a chance of going ahead as well).

snotboogie

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

We're all just speculating. I doubt anyone would gloat if this doesnt go ahead, because if it doesnt, we've all lost out. Yea, maybe soneone might gloat with a "i told you so". But its a rather hollow victory.
Me, i'll be very disappointed my kids wont have a world class venue in Cork, and will have to trudge to Dublin to the BG or O3.

Could well be Limerick they’ll be trudging to. If this gets cancelled and the Limerick 2030 plans go well I could see Limerick Council going back to Europe for loans for an events centre, having learned all of the mistakes from Corks public **** up. They’ll also be able to include Cork in feasibility studies as part of their greater population if the M20 starts. I could well see us in a Thomond Park situation in the middle of the next decade.

If this gets cancelled it will be the worst news for the city in a long time, certainly since the recession lay offs.

Roger Hassenforder

snotboogie wrote: »

Could well be Limerick they’ll be trudging to. If this gets cancelled and the Limerick 2030 plans go well I could see Limerick Council going back to Europe for loans for an events centre, having learned all of the mistakes from Corks public **** up. They’ll also be able to include Cork in feasibility studies as part of their greater population if the M20 starts. I could well see us in a Thomond Park situation in the middle of the next decade.

If this gets cancelled it will be the worst news for the city in a long time, certainly since the recession lay offs.

Ssssschh.
Someone will be along to tell us not to worry about Limerick, that its a poor cousin to Cork, move on.
I reckon they're breaking their holes up the road.

Two words:
Thomond Park

Meursault

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

Ssssschh.
Someone will be along to tell us not to worry about Limerick, that its a poor cousin to Cork, move on.
I reckon they're breaking their holes up the road.

Two words:
Thomond Park

Funny that you mention Limerick. If you take a look at that message board this morning, you see similar comments there about their own city. "Is Limerick going backwards?" etc.

Also, Thomond Park is not a valid comparison. Thomond Park was always Munster's main rugby stadium, and Limerick was always seen as the HQ of rugby. Of course they were going to develop Thomond Park.

And by the way, most weeks TP is far from full. Granted, this is in part due to the glory days being well behind Munster, but also the local population doesn't support a venue that size, and it requires a large travelling contingent from all over the provence.

If the Event Centre in Cork is unfeasible, then the same goes for Limerick.

Anyway, this is in danger of going off topic, so I will leave it at that.

AugustusMinimus

Meursault wrote: »

Funny that you mention Limerick. If you take a look at that message board this morning, you see similar comments there about their own city. "Is Limerick going backwards?" etc.

Also, Thomond Park is not a valid comparison. Thomond Park was always Munster's main rugby stadium, and Limerick was always seen as the HQ of rugby. Of course they were going to develop Thomond Park.

And by the way, most weeks TP is far from full. Granted, this is in part due to the glory days being well behind Munster, but also the local population doesn't support a venue that size, and it requires a large travelling contingent from all over the provence.

If the Event Centre in Cork is unfeasible, then the same goes for Limerick.

Anyway, this is in danger of going off topic, so I will leave it at that.

Thomond Park was not always Munsters main stadium. Only since 1999.

Roger Hassenforder

Meursault wrote: »

Funny that you mention Limerick. If you take a look at that message board this morning, you see similar comments there about their own city. "Is Limerick going backwards?" etc.

Also, Thomond Park is not a valid comparison. Thomond Park was always Munster's main rugby stadium, and Limerick was always seen as the HQ of rugby. Of course they were going to develop Thomond Park.

And by the way, most weeks TP is far from full. Granted, this is in part due to the glory days being well behind Munster, but also the local population doesn't support a venue that size, and it requires a large travelling contingent from all over the provence.

If the Event Centre in Cork is unfeasible, then the same goes for Limerick.

Anyway, this is in danger of going off topic, so I will leave it at that.

Maybe with that logic Milstreet as the spiritual home of Cork music should get the event centre!!

Thomond park was developed before rather than Musgrave, not for spiritual reasons, but because they could. They were able to. They were looking at Cork at the same time and gave up. Spiritual... one match ((ignoring the latter "miracle" match) has dictated the Munster business model (even though Cork contributed the most players)? And so we all traipse to Limerick. Youre right though, numbers are well down, but the atmosphere is better. Maybe they are just more passionate about rugby there?

Still, (historically) most Munster players have come from Cork, most munster cups won by Cork schools, Cork (historically) was the breeding ground for Munster players.

Its not off topic to see how development in cities 60m apart proceeds, and compare the respective authorities vision and execution.

Meursault

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

Maybe with that logic Milstreet as the spiritual home of Cork music should get the event centre!!

Thomond park was developed before rather than Musgrave, not for spiritual reasons, but because they could. They were able to. They were looking at Cork at the same time and gave up. Spiritual... one match ((ignoring the latter "miracle" match) has dictated the Munster business model (even though Cork contributed the most players)? And so we all traipse to Limerick. Youre right though, numbers are well down, but the atmosphere is better. Maybe they are just more passionate about rugby there?

Still, (historically) most Munster players have come from Cork, most munster cups won by Cork schools, Cork (historically) was the breeding ground for Munster players.

Its not off topic to see how development in cities 60m apart proceeds, and compare the respective authorities vision and execution.

I'm sure your knowledge of rugby is a lot better than mine, but by the time rugby went professional and the munster bandwagon was on a roll, it was always Thomond that got the big matches, and Limerick was also seen as the "spiritual home" of rugby. I am assuming that is why Limerick was chosen as the main HQ. It was a bigger stadium to begin with.

I think we are stretching it, to draw a comparison between the Event Centre in Cork and what happened with TP. The Event Centre in Cork has got political support from the Tanaiste, who in fairness to him has continued to be a vocal supporter of the project. If the Event Centre does not happen, it will be because Live Nation and BAM don't think they can make a profit from it. If you can't make a profit from a venue like this in Cork, then it won't work in Limerick either. With all due respect to them.

AugustusMinimus

Meursault wrote: »

I'm sure your knowledge of rugby is a lot better than mine, but by the time rugby went professional and the munster bandwagon was on a roll, it was always Thomond that got the big matches, and Limerick was also seen as the "spiritual home" of rugby. I am assuming that is why Limerick was chosen as the main HQ. It was a bigger stadium to begin with.

I think we are stretching it, to draw a comparison between the Event Centre in Cork and what happened with TP. The Event Centre in Cork has got political support from the Tanaiste, who in fairness to him has continued to be a vocal supporter of the project. If the Event Centre does not happen, it will be because Live Nation and BAM don't think they can make a profit from it. If you can't make a profit from a venue like this in Cork, then it won't work in Limerick either. With all due respect to them.

This is not true either. From 1996 to 1999, almost all Munster Heineken Cup matches were played at Musgrave Park.

This spiritual home of rugby crap started to appear from about 2005 onwards. It has no basis in history.

mire

The notion that an event centre could be considered viable in Limerick, having failed to get across the line in Cork with at 30,000,000 public subsidy is nonsensical.

Limerick is a great city, but the notion that Cork needs to look over its shoulder and some of worry is equally nonsensical. The Limerick 2030 initiative is excellent but it is filling a gap in that city mainly because there is an absence of private sector activity in the commercial property sector.

Meursault

mire wrote: »

The notion that an event centre could be considered viable in Limerick, having failed to get across the line in Cork with at 30,000,000 public subsidy is nonsensical.

Limerick is a great city, but the notion that Cork needs to look over its shoulder and some of worry is equally nonsensical. The Limerick 2030 initiative is excellent but it is filling a gap in that city mainly because there is an absence of private sector activity in the commercial property sector.

Agree. 100% Hallelujah.

snotboogie

mire wrote: »

The notion that an event centre could be considered viable in Limerick, having failed to get across the line in Cork with at 30,000,000 public subsidy is nonsensical.

Limerick is a great city, but the notion that Cork needs to look over its shoulder and some of worry is equally nonsensical. The Limerick 2030 initiative is excellent but it is filling a gap in that city mainly because there is an absence of private sector activity in the commercial property sector.

If the Event Centre in Cork doesn't go ahead it won't be because of viability.

Agreed that 2030 is a massive risk but if it goes well, the M20 gets built and the EC is cancelled in Cork i'd be very surprised if Limerick didn't try to fill the gap.

Roger Hassenforder

mire wrote: »

The notion that an event centre could be considered viable in Limerick, having failed to get across the line in Cork with at 30,000,000 public subsidy is nonsensical.

Limerick is a great city, but the notion that Cork needs to look over its shoulder and some of worry is equally nonsensical. The Limerick 2030 initiative is excellent but it is filling a gap in that city mainly because there is an absence of private sector activity in the commercial property sector.

Whats nonsense is the misguided belief if something isnt viable in Cork, its not viable elsewhere. No we shouldn't be paranoid looking over our shoulders, nor should we be resting on our laurels.

Public subsidies for CAP/OPEX, appropriate scaling, anothercity of > 200k an hour away. If Cork cant get it over the line, Limerick could be in business. Again.
There is precedence.

Edit:
With another city also an hour away in the opposite direction...

marno21

Limerick. LOL

Limerick has an events centre already for the size of the market there. The concert hall at the University