Need urgent help with dog - trainer? Behaviourist?

ncmc

Hi all, I need urgent help with my dog. I have a 9 year old cocker spaniel and an 18 month old toddler. We have had our dog since she was a puppy and to be honest, she had never been great with children – growling if they came too close and barking at them if she was cornered. I was obviously concerned when the baby came along, but I tried to create positive connotations of the baby for the dog, petting her when I was feeding the baby etc. All was fine up until now and the baby is more active and more aware of the dog. The dog has started growling quietly if the baby comes to close. She will move away, but now the baby has started following her and trying to chase her. The thing is, the dog still wants to be near us and won’t go and stay in another room away from us and the baby. I have tries scolding her when she does it, tried reassuring her, but it doesn’t seem to be working. I’m at my wits end, I love my dog and don’t want to have to put her outside, she would be absolutely miserable, but obviously I can’t compromise the babies safety. She hasn’t shown any real aggression, but I am concerned it will get worse as the baby gets older. I wonder would a behaviourist or a trainer be any help? I am based in East Cork, if anyone could offer any advice or suggest someone who might be able to help, I would be so grateful.

BlueLass

Hi, as much as I hate to say it but I'm afraid the toddler must come first and the dog must never be left alone with the child or put in the situation where the dog feels threatened hence the growling. I also have a Collie dog that I had long before my 3yo and 11mo and although he has never shown any aggression or untoward behaviour towards them he is never left alone with them,incredibly unfair to him and them if anything was ever to happen because I took my eyes off the ball! He used to be the baby of the house and was always with me but now he's outside all day in a large garden with good kennel,he gets in when kids in bed and sleeps in house at night and is well looked after so while I felt guilty at start I now know its for the best. He needs his space and if your dog is growling at a very busy active toddler,he's warning you he feels his space is being encroached, he needs to have a safe place either in house or outside that the child is not allowed and that the dog can go to and be in his own. I hope this helps.

Nody

I had written a full post and deleted it; I fully agree you need a good dog behaviorist to train you as most items listed are caused by your behavior rather than your dog's behavior and they will help you understand how to handle those situations going forward. Make sure they are APDT certified (here's the three listed for Cork) rather than some random person of the street and go into it with an open mind; you will hopefully be surprised and learn a lot.

hadook

We aren't at the toddler stage but we've babygated the bejaysus out of the house already to provide dog & baby free zones as required. I have no particular concerns about my dogs but I do know that babies can be asses and dogs don't always put up with it so I'm getting that routine in early to protect all of them.

You need to get a behaviourist in & you also need to keep the dog and toddler separate in the meantime. And hey, look on the bright side - your dog is giving a warning that she's not comfortable. That's half the battle right there.

ncmc

Thank you guys, I'm in tears writing this as I love my dog to bits and just want her to be happy. I've emailed one of the three that you linked to above Nody so hopefully they can help. I feel very much to blame as we spoiled the dog for years and gave her no boundaries and now the chickens are coming home to roost. We will keep them separate for now, though I feel so guilty as the dog loves being with us.

borderlinemeath

Stairgates are brilliant for keeping your dog separate yet still in view so less stressful for her. Room dividers that also double up as a playpen are another option. Keeping them apart is the only option for now, and as hadook says, at least you're getting the warning signs, others haven't been as lucky.

Cows Go µ

In the meantime, I have a suggestion that may or may not work. Is she crate trained? Crates are great for dogs and children as it provides a safe place for a dog to go to where she won't be bothered. I had to do that recently because I'd an injured adult and a playful puppy (not exactly the same but there was still a need for a separation) I put the crate on the couch so she would still be near me but safe from being jumped on by the over enthusiastic pup. The only issue would be wandering fingers but you could probably block the sides that the baby can reach with card or something.

Admittedly, my only experience with babies is my nephew who is 8 months now so I'm not sure how determined an 18 month old would be. But it might help while you are waiting for a professional to come out

ShaShaBear

We separate our boy and our 15 month old with baby gates.

They.
Are.
Everywhere.

He isn't aggressive towards children but does have food guarding issues and he's only 1.5 years old so still runs everywhere and could easily knock my wee girl over. We have his crate in the lounge which is gated, and my PC and craft materials are in there too. Usually my OH will be in the dining room/living room and Opie has the run of there and the kitchen and is able to see me or lean on top of the baby gate for a pet. If we all need to be in the same room like for meals, we just put out his toys in the lounge and leave him in the room with his crate open and the gate closed. He can still see us and does whimper the odd time but overall it isn't bad at all and it's probably more about the food than the company :pac:

My in-laws have a dog that really does not like children. He's snapped a few times (not at my daughter) and we've advised the same to them. He has his bed in their sun-room and Abigail is absolutely not allowed to invade in his personal space. It only took him a few weeks after she gained mobility to realise that if she was peeving him off that all he had to do was go to bed and she wouldn't be able to follow.

DBB

ncmc wrote: »

I feel very much to blame as we spoiled the dog for years and gave her no boundaries and now the chickens are coming home to roost. We will keep them separate for now, though I feel so guilty as the dog loves being with us.

You've gotten some good advice so far OP, I just wanted to address your comment above. Your good treatment of your dog in the past is very unlikely to be influencing her behaviour towards your baby now. Cockers are well known for having limited patience for toddlers, even if they've been well socialised. So, it's quite likely that no matter what you did, your Cocker's DNA would have done the talking now anyway.
I'd also issue some caution about using crates when trying to create space for a dog from a child. The problem is that if the child can still approach the dog in the crate, the dog can feel seriously trapped, so they're only really appropriate if they're set up in such a way that the little one still can't get over to the crate. Baby gates and playpens work really well. This is not so much a training issue, as a management one.
I'd also like to clarify for clarity's sake... APDT Ireland certifies trainers, not behaviourists, so whilst some members also happen to be qualified behaviourists, not all are, so you need to read up on their credentials if it's a behaviourist you're after.

ncmc

I just wanted to thank you all so much for the advice. We are buying stair gates today and will put one on the kitchen door and one on the living room door. I think that will work better than a crate as she has never been crate trained and I think she would find it very stressful at this stage. I feel bad having to keep her separated, she is quite a clingy dog and likes to be with us at all times. That's the hard thing - even when she is getting impatient with my daughter and growling, she won't go in to the other room - she still wants to stay with me. But she is finding the toddler being around her stressful too, so hopefully after the initial shock of the change, she will be more comfortable.

I am having a bit of trouble getting a behaviourist who does home visits, but will keep trying and in the meantime, I am going to really try the positive association and reward system. I did try that before, but probably didn't stick at it enough. I'm also going to get her checked out by the vet, she does have mild arthritis so I am going to give her the once over to make sure she is not in pain. This does seem to have come on suddenly - but it is more likely that it's because my little girl is more active now - but no harm to check everything out.

And thanks DBB for your comments on the breed, I was feeling very guilty that we had caused all her problems , it does make me feel better that it is a slight trait in the breed.

cocker5

ncmc...

Do you mind if i ask what colour is your cocker?

The red / blonde ones are more inclined to be less tolerant of kids. My sister has a nearly 2 year old golden cocker and she is a beautiful dog and was always around kids but like your dog doesn't have alot of patience. My black cocker (who is 10) on the other hand, around kids most of his life but hasn't lived with kids is the most tolerating dog ever... althought id never allow him to be put in a situation where he felt like he couldn't get away...

Cockers by nature are a needy breed, my guy is no different all he wants day or night is to be with his parents.. his humans etc so the dog gates area great idea.

You mentioned mild arthritis... my guy has the same i find salmon oil and Luposan pellets are a great help for him and once he was on these 2 months or so he has had no issues and is bombing around so might be an idea for your dog... here are the ones i buy:

http://www.zooplus.ie/shop/cats/supplements_specialty_cat_food/fur_skin_supplements/127318

http://www.zooplus.ie/shop/dogs/supplements_specialty_food/bones_joints/luposan/129097

your vet may recommend arthuraid its what the vets here sell for arthritis etc and i didnt find it that great...its pricey and the luposan pellets and salmon were far more beneficial for my dog... just letting you know.

ncmc

Hi Cocker5, yes she is a beautiful blonde! I had been giving salmon oil, but ran out and forgot to get some more, so must stock up. My vet did give me some tablets, can't remember the name, they were expensive so when they run out, I might try what you suggested. I notice she is having some trouble getting up on the couch lately, so it it possible her arthritis has worsened somewhat.

cocker5

ncmc wrote: »

Hi Cocker5, yes she is a beautiful blonde! I had been giving salmon oil, but ran out and forgot to get some more, so must stock up. My vet did give me some tablets, can't remember the name, they were expensive so when they run out, I might try what you suggested. I notice she is having some trouble getting up on the couch lately, so it it possible her arthritis has worsened somewhat.

Thought so.. the blonde beauties are like us women - can be short tempered!

To be honest ncmc i wouldnt go down the route of perscription tablets for her joints just yet - they are pretty bad for them long term.

I found the luposan pellets (high concentration) helped alot with my guy... so def try them.. along with the salmon oil they have both really helped.

There is another one called You move and its mean to be very good

http://www.lintbells.com/products/yumove

Latatian

Remember to also try and teach your child to stay away from the dog and not pester them- I know, easier said than done at that age! But as they get older.


I would also second everyone recommending a behaviourist, and to keep them separated and supervised, a dog could do a child a lot of damage if anything goes wrong. Heck, any size dog can- jack russells and yorkshire terriers have been involved in very bad bites to children. And cocker spaniels have been involved in a lot of bites.

On the other hand, it could be worse. She's not seeking out the incidents by the sound of it- she's moving away, trying to avoid the child, trying to avoid any incident, and then warning the child (growling). This is normal dog language- sadly a snap would also be normal if the child doesn't back off, or more escalation. It's not caused by lack of boundaries, at all, you didn't cause it.

Some dogs will allow all kinds of nonsense from a child they're not comfortable with, so the parents don't realise the dog is deeply unhappy. And then you get yet another story about how "I don't understand why the dog 'turned', they always used to let the child climb on their back and never bit them before." Because the dog used other more subtle signals- licking lips etc.- and then from the dog's point of view everyone ignored these so the dog had to defend itself. Your dog is giving clear signals, and you are listening. So you can understand that the dog wants not to interact with the child, and make that happen hopefully. As Hadook says, that's excellent.

I've a dog on the prescription tablets for her joints, and in fairness it has worked wonders. We stopped them recently for a little while and you could really see the difference, she couldn't even go on her walk.