Arsenal Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2015/16 ( Mod Note linked in OP 29/12)

Gringo180

Another humiliation tonight. Its either a fiest or a famine with us there is no inbetween. We are a laughing stock at times, absolute school boy stuff. Its so frustrating.

Marty McFly

Missed the game tonight because of work but thank christ I did saved my blood pressure from hitting the roof.

What can you apart from that's an embarrassing result.

Just hope they can pick themselves back up and give a performancethe weekend we can't afford to loose that game imo.

Talisman

ben.schlomo wrote: »

As both a Liverpool and Ireland fan i can honestly say Ronnie Whelan just sounds like a bitter individual, and he loves having a go at any English team not called Liverpool.

He's a bitter old man that resents the modern game. He's equally critical of Liverpool and likes to dish out "When I was a player ...", a living caricature of Grandpa Simpson.

gosplan

Lads, it's not a humiliation or an embarassent.

The whole team from front to back were clearly only putting in a half shift. They were jogging for most of the match.

When that happens away to Bayern, you concede 5.

The second that first goal went in, it became an exercise in pragmatism.

Run ourselves into the ground and we MIGHT have gotten a draw which wouldn't have changed the group at all really. Then you've the same 11 in a derby after a tough away game in Europe - no thanks.

efb

We've come back from far worse. Bayern are a class apart

Kirby

Bayern can beat everyone. You expect to lose to them at home. The european campaign wasnt ended because of losing to Bayern, it was losing the first two games.

Hoping to beat Olympiacos 3-0 is fairly farfetched. It could happen, but most likely wont.

L'prof

Yes Arsenal can still qualify from the group but in all honesty, does it really matter either way. After a performance like that I think it's obvious they're not going to win it and there are probably a few more teams who could punish them in equally devastating fashion.

I still want them to qualify but I won't be too disappointed if they don't!

gandalf

OK hopefully we see a back lash from that dreadful result last night and we take it out on Spurs.

JustTheOne

The only thing useful in qualifying for Europe is attracting players.

We ain't gonna win it anytime soon.

I wish we could just focus on the league for one season like Liverpool did and nearly won.

Our yearly injury crisis means Europe is an effort we could do without.

I know people keep talking about consistency (or lack thereof) with Arsenal, but surely we are the most consistent team in the league in 2015?

It's very rare that a Premier League team does well in both competitions and puts in strong performances for both week in week out.

wawaman

I have to say i really couldnt care less about the CL now. Id never thought id say that. 5/6 years ago all i wanted to win was the CL but in reality today we are further away from winning it than ever before. Id rather finish 4th in the group than win against Zagreb and come up short against olympiakos. If we did end up in the Europa League id hope we would take it more seriously than all the rest of the english clubs but if we are still challenging for the league in february then weakened teams have to be sent out

Sacksian

Basil3 wrote: »

I know people keep talking about consistency (or lack thereof) with Arsenal, but surely we are the most consistent team in the league in 2015?

It's very rare that a Premier League team does well in both competitions and puts in strong performances for both week in week out.

Arsenal's consistency tends to go underneath the radar because it often seems to be punctuated by very disappointing results (like last night's). And a lot of journalists jump on that because it fits the standard Arsenal narrative.

But the truth is, as you point out, that Arsenal are - by some way - the best Premier League team in 2015 (6 points clear of City and with a goal difference of +37!).

Anyway, didn't some decent Spanish team get beaten 4-0 by Bayern in the semi in 2013?

Quazzie

Sacksian wrote: »

Arsenal's consistency tends to go underneath the radar because it often seems to be punctuated by very disappointing results (like last night's). And a lot of journalists jump on that because it fits the standard Arsenal narrative.

But the truth is, as you point out, that Arsenal are - by some way - the best Premier League team in 2015 (6 points clear of City and with a goal difference of +37!).

Anyway, didn't some decent Spanish team get beaten 4-0 by Bayern in the semi in 2013?

The BBC MOTD facebook page ran two storys about last nights result but barely a fleeting comment about the result two weeks ago.

keano_afc

I actually couldnt care less about the result last night. The sooner we're out the better. Hoping we finish bottom of the group so we can give the league a good go.

wonga77

gosplan wrote: »

Lads, it's not a humiliation or an embarassent.

The whole team from front to back were clearly only putting in a half shift. They were jogging for most of the match.

When that happens away to Bayern, you concede 5.

The second that first goal went in, it became an exercise in pragmatism.

Run ourselves into the ground and we MIGHT have gotten a draw which wouldn't have changed the group at all really. Then you've the same 11 in a derby after a tough away game in Europe - no thanks.

I disagree with you but I get what your saying, for me it is an embarrasment, conceding 5 for the first time in Europe, only for Cech making some good saves and Bayern taking their foot off the pedal I dont think its unrealistic to say they could have got 8 or 9.

The lack of effort was what annoyed me, sure theres a big game coming up the weekend but this is the champions league, we burst our bollox to get there most years and its the biggest stage to play on so I cant understand putting in a half shift.
That being said, even if players were minding themselves, it shouldnt take much effort to try and hold onto the ball, we sat back, hoofed it away at every opportunity and invited them to attack us. I felt sorry for Giroud, even the long ball up to him was woeful.

Mickeroo

The results against Sheffield Wednesday, Olympiakos and Zagreb were embarrassing, last night was just a case of being outclassed by a much better team and shows how well the team did two weeks ago to get a result against them in the first place.

2ndcoming

I don't think we should draw too much of anything from last night except we were simply outplayed by a true superpower who were really in the mood. I didn't take any great disappointment from it, going there expecting anything other than a defeat is naivety in the extreme.

That's the 5th time this season they've put 5 away at home (including against the 2nd and 3rd best teams in the Bundesliga, Dortmund and Gladbach) and it also brought them to the truly incredible figure of 26 goals in their last 420 mins of home CL football.

If anything we could take a bit of heart from the good football we played for most of the second half where we could have had 2 or 3. The lack of depth was highlighted again, Deb and Campbell are nowhere near the level required but there's nothing we can do about that in November anyway. There's definitely a few positions to upgrade in the summer, Jenks is one that we have already filled but Campbell, Flamini, probably Mert are there to be improved.

There's no point getting upset about losing to a simply incredible team. The bright side is we more than likely won't play a team anywhere near as good as that again this season.

wonga77

2ndcoming wrote: »

There's no point getting upset about losing to a simply incredible team. The bright side is we more than likely won't play a team anywhere near as good as that again this season.

Yeah your right, I was happy enough with how we started but it went wrong fairly quick, maybe if we had held them out for another 10 or 15 minutes it would have given us a better grounding in the match but as it turned out our defence were under pressure straight away. For a team that are well known for holding onto possesion we looked like amatuers last night, for example about the 20 minute mark Alonso miskicked a corner straight to Sanchez, somehow about 5 or 6 seconds later we had lost it and Lewandowski had a free header on goal which Cech saved. If you want to have any chance against the best teams then you need to retain possesion in some shape or form.

I always though Debuchy was solid before he lost his place, if Bellerin is out for a spell then this is the Frenchmans chance to either play himself back into the team or play well enough to get a transfer away (if the rumous are true about him wanting to leave in order to make the French squad for the Euros)

Have we anyone back for the spurs game?

csallmighty

Moving on from last night. I believe the team will need a major revamp for next season. Some of that work may have to start in January but there won't be much available. Arsenal could go into next season under prepared again.

csallmighty

csallmighty wrote: »

Moving on from last night. I believe the team will need a major revamp for next season. Some of that work may have to start in January but there won't be much available. Arsenal could go into next season under prepared again.

Major revamp how/why?

CatInABox

csallmighty wrote: »

Moving on from last night. I believe the team will need a major revamp for next season. Some of that work may have to start in January but there won't be much available. Arsenal could go into next season under prepared again.

The first team doesn't need a revamp, but the bench needs to be strengthened a lot. Perhaps start throwing Gab on for Mert a lot more, get him more experience, but other than that, I think our first team is as solid as can be, at least without that world class striker everyone is looking for.

Skylinehead

Kirby wrote: »

Hoping to beat Olympiacos 3-0 is fairly farfetched. It could happen, but most likely wont.

Only need 2 no?

greendom

wonga77 wrote: »

Yeah your right, I was happy enough with how we started but it went wrong fairly quick, maybe if we had held them out for another 10 or 15 minutes it would have given us a better grounding in the match but as it turned out our defence were under pressure straight away. For a team that are well known for holding onto possesion we looked like amatuers last night, for example about the 20 minute mark Alonso miskicked a corner straight to Sanchez, somehow about 5 or 6 seconds later we had lost it and Lewandowski had a free header on goal which Cech saved. If you want to have any chance against the best teams then you need to retain possesion in some shape or form.

I always though Debuchy was solid before he lost his place, if Bellerin is out for a spell then this is the Frenchmans chance to either play himself back into the team or play well enough to get a transfer away (if the rumous are true about him wanting to leave in order to make the French squad for the Euros)

Have we anyone back for the spurs game?

There was talk of Ox being back

DeclanRe

csallmighty wrote: »

Moving on from last night. I believe the team will need a major revamp for next season. Some of that work may have to start in January but there won't be much available. Arsenal could go into next season under prepared again.

I would disagree, Yes we need a few reinforcements, but to say we need a major revamp is pretty over the top

the untitled user

Keep in mind that as the margins against a team like Bayern are just so much smaller, you should read too much into the scorelines. On another week Gabriel doesn't step up and successfully challenges Lewandovski and Ozil goes with his head instead of his shoulder to pop the ball in the back of the net.

Scorelines like last night's is humiliating, but it's just more a reflection of how disciplined a team like ours must be to be successful at this level. Bayern/Barca et al. already have that culture but we lost ours (probably around the time of Bergkamp's retirement coincidentally). It seems given the last couple of seasons' results that we're finally in the process of rebuilding it so hopefully the guys will learn from last night and just keep moving forward.

tayto lover

Ol' Donie wrote: »

Arsene looking pretty fed up there.

"No pressing, no challenges"

We really do need a new dedicated defensive coach as what we are doing now is not working i.e. one good display and three bad.
I didn't care too much about losing last night as i want us to concentrate on winning the league BUT defensive displays like that will eventually creep into our league form and that going to be a disaster. Losing while competing is fine but we have seen us defend extremely poorly agains Olympiacos, Zagreb, Bayern and don't forget Sheff Wed and while the teams were very much changed due to injury what's to say that we couldn't end up with that defence for league games if injuries continue. Complacency could ruin our season.

tayto lover

tayto lover wrote: »

We really do need a new dedicated defensive coach as what we are doing now is not working i.e. one good display and three bad.
I didn't care too much about losing last night as i want us to concentrate on winning the league BUT defensive displays like that will eventually creep into our league form and that going to be a disaster. Losing while competing is fine but we have seen us defend extremely poorly agains Olympiacos, Zagreb, Bayern and don't forget Sheff Wed and while the teams were very much changed due to injury what's to say that we couldn't end up with that defence for league games if injuries continue. Complacency could ruin our season.

Pretty concerning if they're complacent when playing Bayern.

I wonder if the tactics change from match-to-match regarding pressing, or some days the players just can't be bothered.

tayto lover

Basil3 wrote: »

Pretty concerning if they're complacent when playing Bayern.

I wonder if the tactics change from match-to-match regarding pressing, or some days the players just can't be bothered.

It's happening far too often for my liking.
You just can't turn it on and off as you like.
Regardless of who the back 4 and midfield are they should be doing better than what we saw 4 times now in a short space of time.

Ken Shamrock

I love how people just dismiss losses such as last night as a once off, or was important or we had too many injuries, lets just forget about It and move on guys It's not a big deal... It's hilarious to read stuff like this. The team Isn't good enough to get anywhere In Europe and we will struggle to keep a title race going. Players like Mertesacker and Debuchy aren't good enough anymore If we want to challenge.

Keep In mind last night that we had our first choice midfield, the back suffered because we were missing 2 starters but jesus If that's our back up for the back It really shows how far off the pace we are. As for attacking options, Campbell was the only one not a 1st teamer. Our options from the bench were extremely limited because yes we are suffering a bit of an injury crisis but the team we fielded should have been well capable of giving Bayern a game for the first 60 mins but alas we concede 4 goals and the majority of possession.

We have no leaders, no back bone, even with Petr Cech In goal our defence leaked 5. We looked like a 2nd rate team last night and we will be made to look that way on many occasions to come this Season. It's not reactionary to say guys like Mert aren't good enough. How many games does It take for It to not be classed as reactionary anymore? Last night was the first time I stopped watching an Arsenal match with time still left, I don't know If that says something about this team or I'm simply losing interest.

Consistency Is a word that Arsenal have not understood for many years now.

tayto lover

Ken Shamrock wrote: »

I love how people just dismiss losses such as last night as a once off, or was important or we had too many injuries, lets just forget about It and move on guys It's not a big deal... It's hilarious to read stuff like this. The team Isn't good enough to get anywhere In Europe and we will struggle to keep a title race going. Players like Mertesacker and Debuchy aren't good enough anymore If we want to challenge.

Keep In mind last night that we had our first choice midfield, the back suffered because we were missing 2 starters but jesus If that's our back up for the back It really shows how far off the pace we are. As for attacking options, Campbell was the only one not a 1st teamer. Our options from the bench were extremely limited because yes we are suffering a bit of an injury crisis but the team we fielded should have been well capable of giving Bayern a game for the first 60 mins but alas we concede 4 goals and the majority of possession.

We have no leaders, no back bone, even with Petr Cech In goal our defence leaked 5. We looked like a 2nd rate team last night and we will be made to look that way on many occasions to come this Season. It's not reactionary to say guys like Mert aren't good enough. How many games does It take for It to not be classed as reactionary anymore? Last night was the first time I stopped watching an Arsenal match with time still left, I don't know If that says something about this team or I'm simply losing interest.

Consistency Is a word that Arsenal have not understood for many years now.

I am long enough watching, playing and coaching to know that our defence had been neglected as far as coaching goes. Paul Merson has just been interviewed on Sky Sports and he said it has been embarrassing watching our defence in the three CL matches we lost. He described them as being naive and not knowing what they were doing. He said they are not set up properly and don't know their jobs.
That is some indictment of our defensive coaching and coming from a passionate Arsenal defender of the past.

Ken Shamrock

Well he's spot on with what he said then, our defence has been that way for years In fairness. Something needs to be done about It, we don't need to sign Silva and Hummels we just need to be organised and disciplined. We make sooo many errors defensively and this zonal marking bollox needs to go

Irish Aris

Ken Shamrock wrote: »

I love how people just dismiss losses such as last night as a once off, or was important or we had too many injuries, lets just forget about It and move on guys It's not a big deal... It's hilarious to read stuff like this. The team Isn't good enough to get anywhere In Europe and we will struggle to keep a title race going. Players like Mertesacker and Debuchy aren't good enough anymore If we want to challenge.

Keep In mind last night that we had our first choice midfield, the back suffered because we were missing 2 starters but jesus If that's our back up for the back It really shows how far off the pace we are. As for attacking options, Campbell was the only one not a 1st teamer. Our options from the bench were extremely limited because yes we are suffering a bit of an injury crisis but the team we fielded should have been well capable of giving Bayern a game for the first 60 mins but alas we concede 4 goals and the majority of possession.

We have no leaders, no back bone, even with Petr Cech In goal our defence leaked 5. We looked like a 2nd rate team last night and we will be made to look that way on many occasions to come this Season. It's not reactionary to say guys like Mert aren't good enough. How many games does It take for It to not be classed as reactionary anymore? Last night was the first time I stopped watching an Arsenal match with time still left, I don't know If that says something about this team or I'm simply losing interest.

Consistency Is a word that Arsenal have not understood for many years now.

on many occasions I read?
That's over the top reaction in my eyes.

Other than that, you make some valid points in your post.
I would say that there are players that can be the leaders, so I don't know why it doesn't happen.

To me Arsenal at times feels like a machine or a production line - once one part of the process doesn't work (a player having a nightmare for example), the whole system seems to collapse.

csallmighty

Well I don't want to start next season with Arteta, Flamini as back up(this should be their last year) and Mert as first choice CB. Also the big injury list is always a constant.

The starting 11 is fine but injuries creep in and performance suffers.

The injuries so far are manageable but its 1 or 2 more away from a crisis.

JustTheOne

But yet we have 2nd best defensive record in the league this season.

tayto lover

JustTheOne wrote: »

But yet we have 2nd best defensive record in the league this season.

Maybe we have but it's not CL standard and hasn't been for years.
Our league is poor and that's why i think we can win it if we haven't the distractions of other competition and get our injured players back.

Ken Shamrock

Irish Aris wrote: »

on many occasions I read?
That's over the top reaction in my eyes.

Other than that, you make some valid points in your post.
I would say that there are players that can be the leaders, so I don't know why it doesn't happen.

To me Arsenal at times feels like a machine or a production line - once one part of the process doesn't work (a player having a nightmare for example), the whole system seems to collapse.

Maybe, I certainly hope so, we can only wait and see, I'm not confident when Mert plays, Debuchy and Gab are liable to big mistakes and In general the back line Is poorly organised, It's fine playing poor opposition but against the big boys It's criminal.

Ken Shamrock

That said, Bellerin,Kosc,Gab,Monreal Is a great back line of individual players, but for me that's all It Is, individuals.

Skylinehead

Ken Shamrock wrote: »

That said, Bellerin,Kosc,Gab,Monreal Is a great back line of individual players, but for me that's all It Is, individuals.

Is it? Sure, Bellerin and Gabriel will need more time in the team to work as a cohesive unit with the other two, but Monreal and Koscielny work superbly together.

Ken Shamrock

Skylinehead wrote: »

Is it? Sure, Bellerin and Gabriel will need more time in the team to work as a cohesive unit with the other two, but Monreal and Koscielny work superbly together.

Do they? They run over each other a lot but maybe that's just me, even If Kosc and Mon do work well together that's only 50% of our back line.

Irish Aris

Ken Shamrock wrote: »

Maybe, I certainly hope so, we can only wait and see, I'm not confident when Mert plays, Debuchy and Gab are liable to big mistakes and In general the back line Is poorly organised, It's fine playing poor opposition but against the big boys It's criminal.

agreed.

My opinion is that anything that doesn't include Kos in the back, it's subject to liability.
It is either Kos/Mert or Kos/Gabriel.
I think that the Kos/Mert combination works better when we are defending a lot and covering distances is not a priority. I think Mert's experience is valuable in bringing a certain organising and calmness.
For games where we have the possession and do less defending (most home games), I prefer Kos/Gabriel, as they can track back quicker if needed.

emmetlego

And now for some other news... Let's face it, depspite me expecting a hammering prior to the game, it is pretty depressing...

So to change the subject for the time being... Karim Benzema has been charged and is formally being investigated on this sex tape blackmailing... #WengerKnowsBest :-)

farna_boy

Don't get all the hate for Mert at all. I don't think he is the main problem and wasn't the main problem last night either. The biggest problem last night was that Debuchy was so rusty. He grew into the game in the second half and made a really good tackle on Robben but it is clear to see that not having played in so long has affected his performance.

I also think that Mert and Gabriel need some time together on the pitch to build up an understanding in case injuries like what has happened at the moment happens again, which it will inevitably. The game last night is the type of game that actually suits Mert quite well, where we sit deep and defend. There are other games where he shouldn't be chosen i.e. if we want to play a high line but again I think the problem last night was the lack of a relationship between Mert and Gabriel and probably Debuchy as well. I'm not even sure that they have even played together before.

Maybe for less important games (whatever they are) we should have a bit more rotation so players can build up relationships but it's hard to rotate if the team is doing well and winning.

I think the thing that annoyed me most about last night was how poor some of the first touches were and how often we gave the ball away cheaply. We would regain possession and immediately just punt it away. I know Giroud was heavily marked but some of the balls aimed at him seemed to be just kicked in his general direction rather than actually trying to pick him out. Whatever else you think about him, he is generally good at holding up the ball, so if we were able to pass it to him it would have at least relieved the defence for a small bit rather than just momentarily.

Ken Shamrock

Irish Aris wrote: »

agreed.

My opinion is that anything that doesn't include Kos in the back, it's subject to liability.
It is either Kos/Mert or Kos/Gabriel.
I think that the Kos/Mert combination works better when we are defending a lot and covering distances is not a priority. I think Mert's experience is valuable in bringing a certain organising and calmness.
For games where we have the possession and do less defending (most home games), I prefer Kos/Gabriel, as they can track back quicker if needed.

That's the thing, he has experience and Is a world winner, yet I see nothing to suggest that he Is a leader, he does not organise the defence what so ever infact he himself Is often lazy and unorgansied look at one of the goals for the Sheffield game.

He offers none of the qualities that he should and It seems some people just assume he's organising and calming things down because of his experience when I see little to suggest he does anything for our back line on or off the pitch.

Fierce amount of handwaving today.

tayto lover

farna_boy wrote: »

Don't get all the hate for Mert at all. I don't think he is the main problem and wasn't the main problem last night either. The biggest problem last night was that Debuchy was so rusty. He grew into the game in the second half and made a really good tackle on Robben but it is clear to see that not having played in so long has affected his performance.

I also think that Mert and Gabriel need some time together on the pitch to build up an understanding in case injuries like what has happened at the moment happens again, which it will inevitably. The game last night is the type of game that actually suits Mert quite well, where we sit deep and defend. There are other games where he shouldn't be chosen i.e. if we want to play a high line but again I think the problem last night was the lack of a relationship between Mert and Gabriel and probably Debuchy as well. I'm not even sure that they have even played together before.

Mert has been good but is prone to the odd very bad game. He is slow and causes me, for one, to panic when he comes out too far as he's so slow getting back. We can't play a high line with him in the team.

What is unforgivable is his turning away from shots in order not to be hit. He did it again last night and that is just cowardly.

I don't see the point in playing Gabriel and Mertesacker together a lot. Mertesacker has a couple of years of playing left and Gabriel will be leaving Arsenal around the same time when people accept that the "few" mistakes he makes are just how he plays.


Anyway, after Spurs we have as handy a run in the league as one could hope for so anything less than top of the league before the City match will be poor going.

efb

Merse talks through his hoop in fairness - our 2 best defenders out playing world class opposition - its a no brainer

tayto lover

efb wrote: »

Merse talks through his hoop in fairness - our 3 best defenders out playing world class opposition - its a no brainer

Who is the 3rd?

I also think Merson is passionate about Arsenal and deserves his view.

If we can't make it work with two direct back-ups then we're ****ed. I mean Jesus Christ, why can't we sign a solid defender who doesn't **** up when called up? We're not going to have 2 CBs each play 50+ matches per season so we need a third and that's Gabriel and he's useless. And Debuchy is replacing a child. A child in excellent form without a doubt but remember the hype last year for Debuchy? Now he's "just a back-up".

DeclanRe

tayto lover wrote: »

Who is the 3rd?

I also think Merson is passionate about Arsenal and deserves his view.

You can be passionate about a club, similar to Gary Nevile with Utd, or Carragher with liverpool. But then you have Merse who has a chip on his shoulder ever since Wenger called him out last year for some of his comments. And ever since he's just consistently complained about the club, the manager, players etc. He's a pain to listen to. He had 2 failed years at Walsall managing, and now he thinks he's a tactical genius