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Arsenal Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2015/16 ( Mod Note linked in OP 29/12)

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Comments

  • #802
    tayto lover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 52,404 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    DeclanRe wrote: »
    You can be passionate about a club, similar to Gary Nevile with Utd, or Carragher with liverpool. But then you have Merse who has a chip on his shoulder ever since Wenger called him out last year for some of his comments. And ever since he's just consistently complained about the club, the manager, players etc. He's a pain to listen to. He had 2 years at Walsall managing, and he thinks he's a tactical genius

    I think it's a bit like Catchphrase i.e. Say what you see.
    Merson called the defending for what it was. We all saw it.


  • #803
    2ndcoming
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,573 ✭✭✭2ndcoming


    tayto lover wrote: »
    I am long enough watching, playing and coaching to know that our defence had been neglected as far as coaching goes. Paul Merson has just been interviewed on Sky Sports and he said it has been embarrassing watching our defence in the three CL matches we lost. He described them as being naive and not knowing what they were doing. He said they are not set up properly and don't know their jobs.
    That is some indictment of our defensive coaching and coming from a passionate Arsenal defender of the past.

    Paul Merson knows as much about defending as he does about picking the winner of the Eurovision. If you read his book, you'll know that's not much. Hummels, Subotic and co are widely praised and had the exact same result a few weeks ago. Our defence is easily one of the best in England and the stats support this. Try not to read too much into the scoreline against a ruthless killing machine like Bayern.


  • #804
    wonga77
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,456 ✭✭✭wonga77


    efb wrote: »
    Merse talks through his hoop in fairness - our 3 best defenders out playing world class opposition - its a no brainer

    Kos, Bellerin and ....?


  • #805
    efb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    tayto lover wrote: »
    Who is the 3rd?

    I also think Merson is passionate about Arsenal and deserves his view.

    Kos Monreal and Bellerin

    Edit Monreal was playing


  • #806
    efb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    tayto lover wrote: »
    I think it's a bit like Catchphrase i.e. Say what you see.
    Merson called the defending for what it was. We all saw it.

    Typical hurler on the ditch comment


  • #807
    DeclanRe
    Registered Users Posts: 483 ✭✭DeclanRe


    Deleted User wrote: »
    If we can't make it work with two direct back-ups then we're ****ed. I mean Jesus Christ, why can't we sign a solid defender who doesn't **** up when called up? We're not going to have 2 CBs each play 50+ matches per season so we need a third and that's Gabriel and he's useless. And Debuchy is replacing a child. A child in excellent form without a doubt but remember the hype last year for Debuchy? Now he's "just a back-up".

    I initially loved this thread, but then there are times like this where you come in and see people completely writing off players. One player has a bad run of form and he's completely hung out to dry. To say that Gabriel is useless is comical - players need time to adapt and will make mistakes, if you were to tar every player with the same brush then Ozil would have been dropped a season ago, as would Ramsey a couple of seasons ago, Monreal also.

    As for Debuchy - there is no doubt he is a decent player. But he barely gets a game, obviously due to Bellerins amazing form. You can't expect someone who has sat on the bench for most of the season to come into a game like that and be 100%
    And if someone can give me of an example of a player who could do that please let me know!


  • #808
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 25,611 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    DeclanRe wrote: »
    I initially loved this thread, but then there are times like this where you come in and see people completely writing off players. One player has a bad run of form and he's completely hung out to dry. To say that Gabriel is useless is comical - players need time to adapt and will make mistakes, if you were to tar the same player with every brush then Ozil would have been dropped a season ago, as would Ramsey a couple of seasons ago, Monreal also.
    Don't put words in my mouth. I've rated Monreal since he got here, and don't recall ever looking for Ozil to be dropped. As for Ramsey, if he's our first choice on the right then we need to make a signing.
    Gabriel has played 17 matches for Arsenal. If he'd made 2 big mistakes then give him a pass, he's been useless since he signed and I've seen little to suggest he'll make it. Other than celebrating winning a tackle at the end of a match which apparently makes him a legend.
    As for Debuchy - there is no doubt he is a decent player. But he barely gets a game, obviously due to Bellerins amazing form. You can't expect someone who has sat on the bench for most of the season to come into a game like that and be 100%
    And if someone can give me of an example of a player who could do that please let me know!
    When United were steamrolling the league did they have the same back 4 all season? They were always able to slot in replacements who were solid if not spectacular. Why can't we get that? If a player can't come in as a replacement then they shouldn't be on the bench.


  • #809
    greendom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,382 ✭✭✭✭greendom


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Don't put words in my mouth. I've rated Monreal since he got here, and don't recall ever looking for Ozil to be dropped. As for Ramsey, if he's our first choice on the right then we need to make a signing.
    Gabriel has played 17 matches for Arsenal. If he'd made 2 big mistakes then give him a pass, he's been useless since he signed and I've seen little to suggest he'll make it. Other than celebrating winning a tackle at the end of a match which apparently makes him a legend.


    When United were steamrolling the league did they have the same back 4 all season? They were always able to slot in replacements who were solid if not spectacular. Why can't we get that? If a player can't come in as a replacement then they shouldn't be on the bench.

    He's not been useless since he was signed. He's a fine defender and has shown it for us on plenty of occasions


  • #810
    JustTheOne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,681 ✭✭✭JustTheOne


    Dumphy was right lads.

    We needed a John Terry out there last night as he would have hurt a player and we wouldn't have lost like we did.


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  • #811
    tayto lover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 52,404 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    efb wrote: »
    Typical hurler on the ditch comment

    The man has won things with Arsenal as a defender and played with England too so he's surely entitled to his opinion. When he was there fans used to shout "one nil to the Arsenal" as they knew it would usually be enough. You don't hear those chants now for some reason.
    Fair play to him and Ian Right for not being afraid to voice their opinions.


  • #812
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 25,611 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    greendom wrote: »
    He's not been useless since he was signed. He's a fine defender and has shown it for us on plenty of occasions
    6 clean sheets in the 17 matches he's played in. Hilarious ****-up last night trying to play offside at his own penalty spot which shows a lack of brains, letting the side down against the worst-performing Chelsea side in years, bookings all over the shop.

    He might last til summer 2018 assuming we continue not addressing our glaring issues and he'll leave as a failure of a signing. Anyone can feel free to bookmark this post. :P


  • #813
    DeclanRe
    Registered Users Posts: 483 ✭✭DeclanRe


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Don't put words in my mouth. I've rated Monreal since he got here, and don't recall ever looking for Ozil to be dropped. As for Ramsey, if he's our first choice on the right then we need to make a signing.
    Gabriel has played 17 matches for Arsenal. If he'd made 2 big mistakes then give him a pass, he's been useless since he signed and I've seen little to suggest he'll make it. Other than celebrating winning a tackle at the end of a match which apparently makes him a legend.


    When United were steamrolling the league did they have the same back 4 all season? They were always able to slot in replacements who were solid if not spectacular. Why can't we get that? If a player can't come in as a replacement then they shouldn't be on the bench.

    First off im not putting words i your mouth "If you were to tar every player with the same brush" im just trying to give examples, im not calling you out in particular. I'm just saying a lot of people wrote off those 3 players over the last year or two and they are now 3 of our key players. Also the Man Utd Team from 2006-2009 had a good run without injuries with Rio, Vidic, O'Shea, Evra, Brown etc all making 30+ appearances.

    I see your frustration man - and i feel it too. I just honestly think some players need more time than others.


  • #814
    tayto lover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 52,404 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    DeclanRe wrote: »
    First off im not putting words i your mouth "If you were to tar every player with the same brush" im just trying to give examples, im not calling you out in particular. I'm just saying a lot of people wrote off those 3 players over the last year or two and they are now 3 of our key players. Also the Man Utd Team from 2006-2009 had a good run without injuries with Rio, Vidic, O'Shea, Evra, Brown etc all making 30+ appearances.

    I see your frustration man - and i feel it too. I just honestly think some players need more time than others.

    I also agree.
    I just think our defenders, all of them, need proper coaching and a game plan that suits and not defend like they have just met up before the match.
    That's more down to the manager and coaches than the players.


  • #815
    efb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    tayto lover wrote: »
    The man has won things with Arsenal as a defender and played with England too so he's surely entitled to his opinion. When he was there fans used to shout "one nil to the Arsenal" as they knew it would usually be enough. You don't hear those chants now for some reason.
    Fair play to him and Ian Right for not being afraid to voice their opinions.

    Merse was a midfielder- a winger never known him to defend


  • #816
    tayto lover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 52,404 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    efb wrote: »
    Merse was a midfielder

    Typo. But he did play at the highest level so worth his view.


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  • #817
    tayto lover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 52,404 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    So did Adams but it didn't stop them doing their jobs.
    Maybe our defenders last night were pissed too.


  • #818
    efb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    tayto lover wrote: »
    Typo. But he did play at the highest level so worth his view.

    Some typo


  • #819
    efb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    tayto lover wrote: »
    So did Adams but it didn't stop them doing their jobs.
    Maybe our defenders last night were pissed too.

    He didn't while he was in prison - rose tinted glasses???


  • #820
    tayto lover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 52,404 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    efb wrote: »
    Some typo

    Just like your "three" earlier.


  • #821
    tayto lover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 52,404 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    efb wrote: »
    He didn't while he was in prison - rose tinted glasses???

    He had his medals for company.


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  • #822
    the untitled user
    Registered Users Posts: 1,332 ✭✭✭the untitled user


    Deleted User wrote: »
    he's been useless since he signed
    Deleted User wrote: »
    6 clean sheets in the 17 matches he's played in.

    What alternative reality do you live in? You do realize that's league winning form?


  • #823
    efb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    tayto lover wrote: »
    I am long enough watching, playing and coaching to know that our defence had been neglected as far as coaching goes. Paul Merson has just been interviewed on Sky Sports and he said it has been embarrassing watching our defence in the three CL matches we lost. He described them as being naive and not knowing what they were doing. He said they are not set up properly and don't know their jobs.
    That is some indictment of our defensive coaching and coming from a passionate Arsenal defender of the past.

    Another typo???


  • #824
    efb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    tayto lover wrote: »
    Just like your "three" earlier.

    I held my hands up on that- didn't play the typo card- I do admit when I'm wrong


  • #825
    efb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    tayto lover wrote: »
    He had his medals for company.

    So has Mr Wenger


  • #826
    tayto lover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 52,404 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    efb wrote: »
    I held my hands up on that- didn't play the typo card- I do admit when I'm wrong

    You are such a great fellow altogether.
    All hail elf.


  • #827
    tayto lover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 52,404 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    efb wrote: »
    So has Mr Wenger

    So has Merson.


  • #828
    efb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    tayto lover wrote: »
    So has Merson.

    As a great defender???


  • #829
    tayto lover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 52,404 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    efb wrote: »
    As a great defender???

    As 3 of them.


  • #830
    Gringo180
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,205 ✭✭✭Gringo180


    gosplan wrote: »
    Lads, it's not a humiliation or an embarassent.

    The whole team from front to back were clearly only putting in a half shift. They were jogging for most of the match.

    When that happens away to Bayern, you concede 5.

    The second that first goal went in, it became an exercise in pragmatism.

    Run ourselves into the ground and we MIGHT have gotten a draw which wouldn't have changed the group at all really. Then you've the same 11 in a derby after a tough away game in Europe - no thanks.


    You know there is something not right at a club when the players are only putting in half a shift in one of biggest games of the season. I dont care what anybody says but last nights result and especially the performance was an absolute disgrace there is no two ways about it. The attitude of this team stinks at times.


  • #831
    tayto lover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 52,404 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Gringo180 wrote: »
    You know there is something not right at a club when the players are only putting in half a shift in one of biggest games of the season. I dont care what anybody says but last nights result and especially the performance was an absolute disgrace there is no two ways about it. The attitude of this team stinks at times.

    Watch yourself.
    They don't like criticism around here.


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  • #832
    efb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    tayto lover wrote: »
    As 3 of them.

    Well I wouldn't be a as knowledgeable as yourself great arsenal season ticket holder you were- I knew Merse wasn't a defender- couldn't defend to safe his life


  • #833
    efb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    Gringo180 wrote: »
    You know there is something not right at a club when the players are only putting in half a shift in one of biggest games of the season. I dont care what anybody says but last nights result and especially the performance was an absolute disgrace there is no two ways about it. The attitude of this team stinks at times.

    Write it off-why waste time and energy??


  • #834
    tayto lover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 52,404 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    efb wrote: »
    Well I wouldn't be a as knowledgeable as yourself great arsenal season ticket holder you were- I knew Merse wasn't a defender- couldn't defend to safe his life

    He was long after my time as a ticket holder.
    His opinion is spot on though.


  • #835
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 25,611 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    DeclanRe wrote: »
    First off im not putting words i your mouth "If you were to tar every player with the same brush" im just trying to give examples, im not calling you out in particular. I'm just saying a lot of people wrote off those 3 players over the last year or two and they are now 3 of our key players. Also the Man Utd Team from 2006-2009 had a good run without injuries with Rio, Vidic, O'Shea, Evra, Brown etc all making 30+ appearances.
    Really?

    (1st) 2006-7 PL starts:
    Ferdinand 33, Vidic 25 Neville 24, Evra 22, Heinze 17, Brown 17, O'Shea 16, Silvestre 6.
    (1st) 2007-8 PL starts:
    Ferdinand 35, Evra 33 , Brown 34, Vidic 32, O'Shea 10 Piquet 5. (missing Neville all season).
    (1st) 2008-9 PL starts:
    Vidic 33, Evra 28, Ferdinand 24, O'Shea 20, Evans 16, Neville 13, Rafael 12, Brown 6.


    The middle season was settled, the others not so much. For comparison, us last season:
    Mertesacker 35, Koscielny 26, Monreal 26, Gibbs 18, Chambers 17, Debuchy 10, Gabriel 4.


    I see your frustration man - and i feel it too. I just honestly think some players need more time than others.
    We're Arsenal. We apparently want to win. So why are our 2 back-up CMs basically punts and need time to develop? Gabriel is athletic and that's about all he has going for him. Chambers should have a decent career at a mid-table team if he's smart enough to not waste his time at Arsenal.


  • #836
    efb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    Thing in Accounting called a sunk cost. It's done - can't be undone- chalk it down and move on


  • #837
    tayto lover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 52,404 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    efb wrote: »
    Write it off-why waste time and energy??

    Because it keep happening. Never fixed.


  • #838
    efb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    tayto lover wrote: »
    He was long after my time as a ticket holder.
    His opinion is spot on though.

    No it was cheap and reactionary- perfect for your average sky viewer - oh Darts on SS2...


  • #839
    efb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    tayto lover wrote: »
    Because it keep happening. Never fixed.

    How often had it happened?? Thought this was a new "record" according to you???


  • #840
    tayto lover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 52,404 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    efb wrote: »
    No it was cheap and reactionary- perfect for your average sky viewer - oh Darts on SS2...

    Several past players have the same opinion and they are right imo.


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  • #841
    efb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    tayto lover wrote: »
    Several past players have the same opinion and they are right imo.

    Name them? If you are going to say Wright I'll just pass


  • #842
    efb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    tayto lover wrote: »
    Several past players have the same opinion and they are right imo.

    Do you think we should have won last night??


  • #843
    Gringo180
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,205 ✭✭✭Gringo180


    2ndcoming wrote: »
    Try not to read too much into the scoreline against a ruthless killing machine like Bayern.

    Why cant we not be like Bayern? The infrastructure is there at the club to make it happen. That should be the clubs aim, but our transfer policy makes this goal impossible to achieve. Instead we rely on 2nd rate players who are too inconsistent to bring any long term success at the highest level. If I was Ozil, Kos or Sanchez I would be looking for a way out of the club, these players deserve to be competing with the best in Europe, we are a million miles off that. Its always one step forward and two steps back with us the past I dont know how many seasons.


  • #844
    tayto lover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 52,404 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    efb wrote: »
    How often had it happened?? Thought this was a new "record" according to you???

    6 nil at Chelsea.
    6 - 3 at City.
    5 - 1 at Pool.
    4 - 4 at Newcastle after being 4 up.

    Often enough.
    Last night was our worst in the CL.


  • #845
    efb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    Gab and Mert are only good with Kos beside them. It's like the island parable you can't leave them on their own


  • #846
    tayto lover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 52,404 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    efb wrote: »
    Do you think we should have won last night??

    Never said that.
    I mentioned our soft defending. And it was soft.


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  • #847
    efb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    tayto lover wrote: »
    6 nil at Chelsea.
    6 - 3 at City.
    5 - 1 at Pool.
    4 - 4 at Newcastle after being 4 up.

    Often enough.
    Last night was our worst in the CL.

    When we'e they???


  • #848
    efb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    tayto lover wrote: »
    Never said that.
    I mentioned our soft defending. And it was soft.

    Soft for a reason- best defenders out- up against one of the exceptionional teams in Europe


  • #849
    Gringo180
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,205 ✭✭✭Gringo180


    tayto lover wrote: »
    Watch yourself.
    They don't like criticism around here.

    I honestly cant believe some of the comments I am reading. Some nearly even justifying last nights massacre. I'm disgusted by yet another tame, gutless display by these players.


  • #850
    tayto lover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 52,404 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    efb wrote: »
    Name them? If you are going to say Wright I'll just pass

    Adams, Right, Meson and Winterbourne off the top of my head.


  • #851
    efb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    tayto lover wrote: »
    Adams, Right, Meson and Winterbourne off the top of my head.

    Wright is his name and Winterburn

    Didn't hear Winterburn or Adams criticise the team? Link??


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