Why a rental crisis now?

Lux23

I would rather live in a skip in Dublin city than a mansion in the sticks. Dublin is great, its a relatively small city but you get all the advantages of a capital.

pwurple

newacc2015 wrote: »

Urban centres than are smaller than most suburbs in Dublin. Lets not pretend these "urban centres" are an ideal place for a twenty something to live. There is rarely public transport. There is lack of modern shopping facilities and very limited sport options.

lol, have you ever left that gilded cage? All of that is pure nonsense. Public transport: I have a busstop outside my front door with a bus that passes every 6 minutes. 2 others within short walking distance. Sports: GAA, Rugby, swimming pool, soccer, tennis, rowing clubs all within 5 minutes of my street. 2 golf clubs nearby, sailing clubs. Nightlife? >30,000 students attend the universities. I've been going out to a different restaurant every fortnight in Cork for 4 1/2 years with a few friends. No repeats so far. Tell me again how there is a shortage of things to do outside of dublin. :pac:

The largest multinationals are in Ballincollig, Hollyhill and the eastern metro area (Little Island, Glountaune etc). Ballincollig is about the population and size of blanchardstown, and is stuck to the side of the city, just like blanch.

seamus

ibstar wrote: »

http://www.thejournal.ie/modular-housing-christmas-dublin-2401473-Oct2015/

"The remaining 350 units announced in Budget – with roughly €40 million allotted to the project"

that's 114,285.71 per unit

too expensive imo for what it is.

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I know the average cost of building a 3-bed semi to modern standards is €200k. That's just the build, doesn't include the cost of the land.

In that regard, paying €115k per unit for these houses, which can be built in a fraction of the time, isn't bad value. My primary concern is that some poor bastard will still be living in these things in 30 years time and they'll be falling apart.

CramCycle

I was offered huge money to move to Waterford for a simliar role to where I am, effectively doubling my wage packet when cheaper cost of living was included.

I still wouldn't do it, different strokes for different folks, it would appear that more people prefer Dublin. I like Galway, Cork, Lmerick, but I wouldn't move there unless my partner decided so, I might tolerate it then.

Citroen2cv

I agree somewhat to an earlier post about why does all this social housing need to be built - nobody should be looking for free housing. You have to work to earn money to pay for a house.

As for Private built housing crisis, its seems mad that the Irish were known worldwide for building, certainly in the UK, construction was what we most well known for. We have lost much of our expertise in this area. Most developers I know of, that built many houses during the boom and before, are now at retiring age, and there is no one to replace them. Their sons etc. got out of construction.

I also think that the IDA really needs to start pushing the new jobs away from Dublin. Every evening on the six-one I hear of 100, 150 new jobs for a tech start-up in dublin. These companies dont have any previous links with the city, and could easily be accomodated in another city or big town. Its not like they rely on traditional pull factors for a company setting up in a city. Surely the broadband and infrastructure in Galway, athlone and Limerick is sufficient.
Dublin is full to capacity at the moment, the M50 is choked - one small fender bender and it comes to a halt. Sky high rents and house prices also.

I moved to Dublin from Rural Ireland 5 years ago, and enjoyed its social life for the first year or two, but as I settled down I dont utilise the social scene as much. I rarely utilise all the other amenities it has on offer, but pay massive rent for having them close to me.

jim-mcdee

CramCycle wrote: »

I was offered huge money to move to Waterford for a simliar role to where I am, effectively doubling my wage packet when cheaper cost of living was included.

I still wouldn't do it, different strokes for different folks, it would appear that more people prefer Dublin. I like Galway, Cork, Lmerick, but I wouldn't move there unless my partner decided so, I might tolerate it then.

Thats fantastic news for the company, as they will get someone in the job who appreciates the high salary and the excellent city that is Waterford. Personally I live in Dublin and have done for last 15 years on and off. I cant wait (massive kip if you ask me) to get out of it but all the jobs are here.

testaccount123

Citroen2cv wrote: »

Every evening on the six-one I hear of 100, 150 new jobs for a tech start-up in dublin. These companies dont have any previous links with the city, and could easily be accomodated in another city or big town. Its not like they rely on traditional pull factors for a company setting up in a city. Surely the broadband and infrastructure in Galway, athlone and Limerick is sufficient.

Whatever about Galway, young professional people do not want to live in the likes of Athlone or Limerick. They want to live in Dublin. Which is why there is a rental crisis. This seems very difficult to grasp for some on here, but it really is quite simple.

spurshero

While I would certainly agree about traffic in galway a previous poster on this thread has certainly wrote the most unbalanced article I've ever seen . Not sure why people like them live in certain areas if they hate it so much .

Citroen2cv

Citroen2cv wrote: »

I agree somewhat to an earlier post about why does all this social housing need to be built - nobody should be looking for free housing. You have to work to earn money to pay for a house.

Just to correct this common misconception, in a well run social housing program houses are not 'free'.

When the UK invested in social housing properly (1950s) the housing was both much superior to that generally available in the private sector (not hard either then or now) and tenants were expected to pay close to market rates.

Over the years for a variety of reasons the system has become broken. Doesn't mean it cannot be fixed or that we shouldn't try to fix it.

jimmycrackcorm

Lux23 wrote:

I would rather live in a skip in Dublin city than a mansion in the sticks. Dublin is great, its a relatively small city but you get all the advantages of a capital.

What about a large rural town though? I'm living in Dublin and I don't see the advantages over the town where I came from.

Maybe I should visit the zoo more often...

Citroen2cv

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

What about a large rural town though? I'm living in Dublin and I don't see the advantages over the town where I came from.

Maybe I should visit the zoo more often...

Lets not turn the thread into a culchie v jackeen thread.

ongarite

Citroen2cv wrote: »

I also think that the IDA really needs to start pushing the new jobs away from Dublin. Every evening on the six-one I hear of 100, 150 new jobs for a tech start-up in dublin. These companies dont have any previous links with the city, and could easily be accomodated in another city or big town. Its not like they rely on traditional pull factors for a company setting up in a city. Surely the broadband and infrastructure in Galway, athlone and Limerick is sufficient.
Dublin is full to capacity at the moment, the M50 is choked - one small fender bender and it comes to a halt. Sky high rents and house prices also.

Tech startups want to be around other tech startups and established companies in cities worldwide. It encourages movement of workers from company to company, talent development and makes it easier to bring in non-Irish/EU talent too.
You see this all over the world in various industries in places San Francisco/San José or Austin Texas orSilicon Alley, NYC.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10000872396390444914904577619441778073340

Urbanisation is a fact of modern life and is only accelerating worldwide; its something Ireland and its politicians seem to be adverse too.

riclad

ITS not so much people do not want to live in athlone,
its more that most jobs for young people are located in citys ,or large towns .
The problem is the the whole building industry seems to have almost stopped
building house,s and this is causing a rental crisis in dublin .

Citroen2cv

ongarite wrote: »

It encourages movement of workers from company to company, talent development and makes it easier to bring in non-Irish/EU talent too.
You see this all over the world in various industries in places San Francisco/San José or Austin Texas orSilicon Alley, NYC.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10000872396390444914904577619441778073340

Urbanisation is a fact of modern life and is only accelerating worldwide; its something Ireland and its politicians seem to be adverse too.

If I owned a company, Id want to hold on to my workers.

I agree that urbanisation is a fact of modern life, I dont propose putting new jobs into the middle of nowhere, but I would like to see the the new jobs dished out in equal measure to each of Irelands cities.

Citroen2cv

Citroen2cv wrote: »

If I owned a company, Id want to hold on to my workers.

I agree that urbanisation is a fact of modern life, I dont propose putting new jobs into the middle of nowhere, but I would like to see the the new jobs dished out in equal measure to each of Irelands cities.

Jobs (even IDA jobs) don't get 'dished out', they get created by businesses who need to hire people. The business always has a veto on location.

Those businesses prefer to locate themselves in cities for pretty obvious reasons. There are some exceptions, but there are all sorts of difficulties with locating outside well-connected larger cities. Young people want to live in cities, and older people with children are much less likely to uproot themselves and move to Waterford or wherever on the back of a job offer. So you have to attract them where they are, which is in cities.

Not wanting to sound too harsh but the average tech company has literally zero interest in the currently unemployed of waterford or wherever else (sorry, not picking on Waterford!) And it would be a huge longshot to set up there hoping to attract people down from Dublin.

OfflerCrocGod

pwurple wrote: »

Ballincollig is about the population and size of blanchardstown, and is stuck to the side of the city, just like blanch.

In 2011 the population of Ballincollig DED was 17,368.

The 2011 Census recorded a population of 68,156 in Blanchardstown and its immediate environs.

Shelflife

I think a lot of the Urban Rural divide is age related. The younger (no Kids) professionals happy to live in Dublin as theres plently to do.

The older married with kids professional would put more store into a bigger house,school options ,somewhere to safely raise the kids sort of place.

My original point was that there would be certain-not all businesses that could function just as well in a rural setting as they would in Dublin and that they should be encouraged to do this.

The_Conductor

Citroen2cv wrote: »

If I owned a company, Id want to hold on to my workers.

I agree that urbanisation is a fact of modern life, I dont propose putting new jobs into the middle of nowhere, but I would like to see the the new jobs dished out in equal measure to each of Irelands cities.

In international terms- we only have one middling sized city- Dublin- whether people like it or not. We have no other towns or cities that feature on the scale of even small sized cities internationally.

When tech companies started to locate here- those with a strong focus in customer services- very often had significant international work forces. These workers did not want to live/work in Thurles, Co. Tipperary- they wanted the convenience of Dublin.

Once you got one major company in any area- it acted as a magnet to attract other companies.

Some companies whose focus was not such that they demanded large numbers of multinational workers- set up elsewhere- often initially in a manufacturing capacity- and then further up the foodchain.

The issue with trying to attract hi-tech manufacturing now- is how the hell can we compete with the wages in Poland or Romania- never mind the simple fact that the likes of even Aldi and Lidl have signed up to pay a living wage to their staff- something that would make manufactured good prohibitively expensive to produce here- in comparison to other international locations.

Nevertheless- we have a few clusters of related companies in locations around the country- despite the manner in which often this means one Irish town or city cannibalizing another.

The perennial problem in Ireland- is parochial politics- to the extent that we can't be happy that Galway is having an expansion of Medtronics- or Leixlip is upgrading an Intel Fab- its all- why don't we try to get them to move to Sligo (or where-ever)- think of the local boost they'd give to the economy there........

Ireland is a tiny little country- with one small city. We can and do successfully leverage that city- for the benefit of the whole country (there are massive subventions to the rest of the country from Dublin). Sure- many of us would like to live beside our parents, our friends from our youth, relatives- and the places we are intimately familiar with. However- these things are a luxury for most of us- with a cost associated with them.

If you were to look solely at the rental crisis- and the lack of available housing- you'd immediately write-off Dublin, Cork, Galway, Waterford, Sligo, Portlaoise, Athlone and the other of our towns- and instead focus on places like Donegal- which according to the last census- has almost 36,000 vacant properties (many of which pop up in blocks on Allsop auctions- over 2,000 apartments went unsold in border regions in the last auction alone).

The lack of available accommodation is one part of the equation- however- don't discount the draw that our sole city of any mass has- or that places like Galway have- these are where people want to be- like it or not.

testaccount123

testaccount123 wrote: »

They want to live in Dublin. Which is why there is a rental crisis. This seems very difficult to grasp for some on here, but it really is quite simple.

This is a very biased view in my opinion. I think very large number do not want to live in Dublin with its sky high rents and huge traffic. They have to move there to get jobs because that's where the jobs are. Its a chicken and egg scenario.

I would think there are an awful lot more people who would be happy to work places other than Dublin than a person with a bias towards Dublin thinks.

Ok I know I'm on the other end of the scale being from a rural area but I would come across very very few people who would have any interest in living in Dublin and of those that do almost all are doing it out of necessity and would angling their jobs and expertise to enable a move out it as soon as possible.

testaccount123

Joe Late Notch wrote: »

This is a very biased view in my opinion. I think very large number do not want to live in Dublin with its sky high rents and huge traffic. They have to move there to get jobs because that's where the jobs are.

Rubbish. The skilled European workers required by the MNCs here are highly mobile and could work anywhere in Europe. Dublin is the only place in Ireland that can compete with European cities to draw these folk in en masse. Just because fellas from the country dont understand it doesnt make it any less true.

Mrs OBumble

Joe Late Notch wrote: »

This is a very biased view in my opinion. I think very large number do not want to live in Dublin with its sky high rents and huge traffic. They have to move there to get jobs because that's where the jobs are. Its a chicken and egg scenario.

I've worked with a number of people in Galway who got their first job out of college here.

A few stayed, but most were itching to get up to the bright lights of Dublin within a couple of years: as soon as they had few friends left within the student scene here, the appeal palled.

keane2097

Joe Late Notch wrote: »

I would consider leixlip well outside Dublin especially considering the traffic issues around Dublin.

You're stretching here trying to make a point realistically.

It's 12 miles from Ranelagh to Intel and takes about half an hour to 40 minutes.

Shelflife

Shelflife wrote: »

I think a lot of the Urban Rural divide is age related. The younger (no Kids) professionals happy to live in Dublin as theres plently to do.

The older married with kids professional would put more store into a bigger house,school options ,somewhere to safely raise the kids sort of place.

My original point was that there would be certain-not all businesses that could function just as well in a rural setting as they would in Dublin and that they should be encouraged to do this.

Encouraged how though?

Presumably the rent and wages would be lower already. That should be enough to persuade a factory or office to move if cost was the deciding factor. That they don't set up in small town Ireland suggests that they wouldn't function as well.

testaccount123

testaccount123 wrote: »

Rubbish. The skilled European workers required by the MNCs here are highly mobile and could work anywhere in Europe. Dublin is the only place in Ireland that can compete with European cities to draw these folk in en masse. Just because fellas from the country dont understand it doesnt make it any less true.

I'm talking about the large number of skilled Irish people who have to move to Dublin for work, I'm not concerned about people moving here for jobs.

In fact it could be a good thing for Irish jobs if people from abroad don't want to move to move to places as it gives more opportunities to Irish people.

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

I've worked with a number of people in Galway who got their first job out of college here.

A few stayed, but most were itching to get up to the bright lights of Dublin within a couple of years: as soon as they had few friends left within the student scene here, the appeal palled.

I have to say I know very very few people who were itching to go to Dublin, certainly not people I know anyway (Why anyone wants to live anywhere near Dublin is beyond me). Almost my entire group of friends from school (who were also my college friends as we stuck together as a group) stayed living in Galway, are back living in Galway or are trying to get back asap (I would fall into the final category) and the majority who moved did so because of necessity not choice. Most are in highly skilled jobs also I would add.

I would not see my case as being in anyway unique. Irish people tend to not want to move around or move at all as much as other Europeans from my experience.

Deleted User wrote: »

Encouraged how though?

Presumably the rent and wages would be lower already. That should be enough to persuade a factory or office to move if cost was the deciding factor. That they don't set up in small town Ireland suggests that they wouldn't function as well.

More tax breaks and higher grants would be two obvious ways.

It would undoubtedly be a good thing for the country to spread out the jobs and would ease the housing situation going into the future. It also makes buying far more doable as price are so much lower and quality of life much higher with reduced time spent in traffic and easier commutes.

CramCycle

jim-mcdee wrote: »

Thats fantastic news for the company, as they will get someone in the job who appreciates the high salary and the excellent city that is Waterford. Personally I live in Dublin and have done for last 15 years on and off. I cant wait (massive kip if you ask me) to get out of it but all the jobs are here.

I would appreciate it, I wouldn't appreciate moving away from where I am, where my friends are, visited Waterford many times, its grand, certainly not excellent but neither is Dublin, different strokes though, you like Waterford, you don't like Dublin. That's fair enough, I have friends who love Longford and will never leave.

I don't think I could stay there for more than a few days, certainly it would not be my cuppa tea in terms of living, social activity etc.

CramCycle

Joe Late Notch wrote: »

I have to say I know very very few people who were itching to go to Dublin, certainly not people I know anyway (Why anyone wants to live anywhere near Dublin is beyond me). Almost my entire group of friends from school (who were also my college friends as we stuck together as a group) stayed living in Galway, are back living in Galway or are trying to get back asap (I would fall into the final category) and the majority who moved did so because of necessity not choice. Most are in highly skilled jobs also I would add.

And most people I went to school or college with had no intention of ever going back, different types of people, my friends who went to Galway, stayed in Galway for quite a few years before moving on, those who were in Cork, stayed for awhile before moving on, Dublin was the same but most from the country never went back. Dublin seemed ot have the higher retention rate by far.

More tax breaks and higher grants would be two obvious ways.

There are oter things, such as transport and infrastructure, some companies will not move from Dublin due to the proximity to the airport and port, they don't or didn't see Cork or Galway as well serviced enough. Many of the big companies mentioned as just outside Dublin, only done so after there was massive work put in to the local road work system, making Dublin a short and relatively smooth trip.

It would undoubtedly be a good thing for the country to spread out the jobs and would ease the housing situation going into the future. It also makes buying far more doable as price are so much lower and quality of life much higher with reduced time spent in traffic and easier commutes.

I cycle in and out, driving in Dublin isn't for me, if I went to somewhere else, I would expect to be within a cycle-able or walk-able distance. It has improved my quality of life, reduces my burden on the medical system. Not sure how that would stack out up in other areas. I would also have to get my partner a job in the area, so are there companies in the area that would suit their specific work.

Outside of Dublin, Limerick might suit me, Cork, Galway and Waterford, if my partner retired but that's me, others might be Dublin or Galway.

The general thing is though, while you do not want to live in Dublin, alot of people do want to live here, you not liking it or understanding it will not change. I would need to see a tripling of my wage (due to taxation) before I would even consider it at this point, or for my partner to get a job in the area and then I might consider a doubling. For me that leaves two cities, for others it might leave only one, others might be able to go anywhere but if the calls from employers outside of Dublin is anything to go by, then not alot of people are considering it yet. That may change if my wants or needs change but not yet or the foreseeable future.

CramCycle

CramCycle wrote: »

I cycle in and out, driving in Dublin isn't for me, if I went to somewhere else, I would expect to be within a cycle-able or walk-able distance.

A company set up outside a city (far enough to avoid its traffic) will mean you have no need to worry about traffic.

Personally I'd much prefer a nice relaxed traffic-less drive of say 30 mins than a much shorter cycle. In fairness though I'd also be willing to put up with the traffic of commuting into a city as I will be moving back to live in the country side when I can get work within a commutable distance of my home area and I know some people have no tolerance for commuting at all so I Know very well that people will differ on their opinions on getting to work and closeness to work.

The general point I'm trying to make overall anyway is that with our much improved motorway network, multiple regional airports and lots of more affordable housing around the county we should be trying to encourage companies to setup outside of Dublin. It may not suit you or others who like living in Dublin but it will suit loads of people who would prefer to live elsewhere, that goes for non-irish people too, lots would be happy to move to other parts of the country if the jobs are there and the money is good. Remember also an equal wage to dublin somewhere else is like being paid much more due to the cost of living.

I could get a mortgage on a big 3 or 4 bed roomed house in the country for not much more than a room in a houseshare in Dublin. Thats astounding when you actually think about it.

Joe Late Notch

Joe Late Notch wrote: »

More tax breaks and higher grants would be two obvious ways.

It would undoubtedly be a good thing for the country to spread out the jobs and would ease the housing situation going into the future. It also makes buying far more doable as price are so much lower and quality of life much higher with reduced time spent in traffic and easier commutes.

Spreading out the jobs makes it sound like the IDA are sitting on pile of jobs that they can dole out as they see fit. They aren't.

Start ups, expansions & new foreign direct investment weigh up lots of factors and choose to establish themselves where they do. Needing additional grants or tax breaks just highlights that these companies don't want to set up there.

If the latent talent pool of staff really existed these companies would be popping up in the IDA estates in Castlebar or Westport, without the need for additional tax breaks or grants.

CramCycle

Joe Late Notch wrote: »

A company set up outside a city (far enough to avoid its traffic) will mean you have no need to worry about traffic.

If suitable public transport was set up, I might consider it, but its not, and it won't be for awhile.

Personally I'd much prefer a nice relaxed traffic-less drive of say 30 mins than a much shorter cycle. In fairness though I'd also be willing to put up with the traffic of commuting into a city as I will be moving back to live in the country side when I can get work within a commutable distance of my home area and I know some people have no tolerance for commuting at all so I Know very well that people will differ on their opinions on getting to work and closeness to work.

I don't mind commuting, I just don't like Irish drivers but thats another story. If there is public transport or a cycle that is an hour or less, its close enough for me.

The general point I'm trying to make overall anyway is that with our much improved motorway network, multiple regional airports and lots of more affordable housing around the county we should be trying to encourage companies to setup outside of Dublin. It may not suit you or others who like living in Dublin but it will suit loads of people who would prefer to live elsewhere, that goes for non-irish people too, lots would be happy to move to other parts of the country if the jobs are there and the money is good. Remember also an equal wage to dublin somewhere else is like being paid much more due to the cost of living.

But it obviously doesn't suit that many or it would be happening. It should improve to your way of thinking over time as transport improves but that looks a way away.

I could get a mortgage on a big 3 or 4 bed roomed house in the country for not much more than a room in a houseshare in Dublin. Thats astounding when you actually think about it.

At this point I could probably buy a house in Longford or Wexford or wherever I want to settle down for the same price as a decent deposit where i currently live. It doesn't bother me though, I don't want 3 or 4 houses in the country, I want to live where I live, I like it, my partner likes it, my kids like it and until its not affordable, I will continue with it. You sound like you don't want to live in Dublin, the simple solution is don't.

Someone said to stop comparing us to Europeans or Americans, we are unique compared to them in that we tend to find work where we want to live, rather than live where we want to work. I want to live in Dublin, until that changes, this is where i will work. When Waterford has something that makes it an attractive place to live for me, then I will take offers from that part of the country more seriously.

CramCycle

CramCycle wrote: »

At this point I could probably buy a house in Longford or Wexford or wherever I want to settle down for the same price as a decent deposit where i currently live. It doesn't bother me though, I don't want 3 or 4 houses in the country, I want to live where I live, I like it, my partner likes it, my kids like it and until its not affordable, I will continue with it. You sound like you don't want to live in Dublin, the simple solution is don't.

I'm not suggesting you should move nor those who don't want to. Dublin will still have loads of the jobs but there are people coming out of college in the other cities in Ireland who could get work locally if a company setup or people who want to move back could or of course people from aborad who don't mind the idea could also move there.

CramCycle wrote: »

Someone said to stop comparing us to Europeans or Americans, we are unique compared to them in that we tend to find work where we want to live, rather than live where we want to work. I want to live in Dublin, until that changes, this is where i will work. When Waterford has something that makes it an attractive place to live for me, then I will take offers from that part of the country more seriously.

I said something to that effect as I would very much fall into that category. At the end of the day this is the reason I want to see more and more companies in the west of Ireland as it gives me more job opportunities in the place I want to live.