Can't zero in .22lr

Cass

shooting101 wrote: »

Actually we don't even know the make! That's why we were wanting to get a new pair of mount.

It's a .22lr so top of the market rings are not a priority. However the more you can afford the better.

Onto the dovetail

You should look into a picatinny rail, and then a set of picatinny rings. Much better setup, better grip for the scope to the rifle, and better hold. Look at DIP Picatinny rail and you'll see what i mean.

Not till now, I did suspect that when we had it in the bench rest that when we dialled it left it would go right and so forth so we went with that, left for right, right for left

The idea behind it is the scope dials the opposite direction to make you physically move the rifle in the proper direction.

Yes we change from Winchester

I mean do you change during testing? IOW do you use the same ammo all the time? It's to eliminate ammo as a reason.

We didn't touch anything to do with the moderator

I meant the trigger.

My CZ455 had a trigger weight of over 5lb., It felt like the safety was on and it resulted in shots going off. IOW i was pulling the trigger so hard to get "over" the excessive weight of the trigger that is was putting my shots off.

I fixed this by replacing the trigger spring, and trigger shim. It brought it from 5.5lb down to 1.25 and mt groups got very tight and consistent.


Last question, you are shooting with the Mod off at the moment? Is it still the same? Shooting high and left? If so then it's not the Mod and my next item to look at would be the rings. Also i have some spare trigger springs and shims somewhere. If i can find them i'll send you on some to try, and it might improve the trigger some. Even if that is not the problem it's a good step to take.

Where are you based? County will do. I ask because if you are around the midlands i'll meet you on the Midlands range and go through this with you. Your Father is welcome to come along too.

It's much easier to spot something and fix it by looking at it and working on it than trying to guess things over the net.

shooting101

Thanks Cass

Sorry meant the trigger, I did read that it was heavy, but what would we do to change it down like yours is it long process? We noticed that it really hard to pull it back properly..

We are currently shooting without the moderator same thing on and of
We don't actually change but we have moved from another make I can't think of it right now sorry but we went to Winchester to the dearer cci

I'm based in Galway!

Cass

shooting101 wrote: »

......... but what would we do to change it down like yours is it long process?

YoDave trigger kit.

The process for changing the trigger is very simple. It means stripping the gun down and removing the barreled action so if you're unsure i'd suggest you get someone proficient to do it for you. Have a look at these videos and it'll show how it's done. Takes about 10 minutes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnnGrMfh5EM

We are currently shooting without the moderator same thing

So the Mod is not the problem. I'd say it's the rings, barring the rifle itself is faulty, but that;s a very, VERY long shot.

I'm based in Galway!

As said if you fancy the drive to the Midlands, and i'll spend as much time as you need to get it sorted.

shooting101

Thanks for the help Cass,

What mounts would you suggest? For a 50mm scope? Is it a thing for you that your mounts go loose? Or should it stay tight when you have tightened it, my dad thought that these weren't right, they've been tit for tat and you would have to check if there tightend every few days.
Thanks.

Cass

shooting101 wrote: »

What mounts would you suggest?

DIP picatinny rail



Rings are based on budget and availability. So look for (prices are averages):
Warne - €80
Burris - €65
Leupold - €40 - €75
Sportsmatch - €25

in that order. Anything better than Warne will cost in excess of €100.

For a 50mm scope?

Each manufacturer has different ways to measure the height of their rings. So for one set you might need high, another extra high, and another medium. The height you need in Millimetres is about 30 mm. So find out what height each manufacturer says would equal 30mm and that is the height you go for.

Is it a thing for you that your mounts go loose?

Never.

Or should it stay tight when you have tightened it, my dad thought that these weren't right, they've been tit for tat and you would have to check if there tightend every few days.
.

That would seem to be a problem right there. Rings should be tightened once, and while it's a good habit to check them regularly they should not NEED to be tightened continuously.

shooting101

That's great thanks a mill Cass!
Will put on the new mounts soon!

Cheers Cillian.

shooting101

That's great thanks a mill Cass!
Will put on the new mounts soon!

Cheers Cillian.

cookimonster

Can you post pictures of the set up -detailing scope mounts, mounted scope, crown and if possible the stock minus the barreled action?

Have a look at the stock to see if there is warping, swelling or uneveness. Check that the sling stud us not in contact with the barrel.

Have you checked that the cross hairs of the scope are centred, regardless of the fact you replaced the scope, insure that it has not been over adjusted to one degree or another.

Lastly just to eliminate one more factor, how do you transport the rife - gun case , padded gun bag or a simple gun slip.

When you say won't hold zero and consistently returns to a different but consistent point of impact for different shooters would IMO point to a mechanical influence (stress, pressure or external force) rather then shooter technique or characteristics of the rifle.

Ah ... the last posts came in when I was typeing with my sausage fingers, lose mounts definitely not good, check that threads have not been stripped or that they are in fact suitable for CZ dove tails.

Cass

Thinking as i type so see if i'm wrong or not making sense.

I'm thinking that the mounts are not so much loose as there is an imperfection in them causing them to loosen. If they shift from the zero to a high & left "zero", but hold there it would suggest that there may be some imperfection in the rings (most likely in the piece of the ring that clamps it to the dovetail), but once at this "new zero" it achieves the grip it needs to hold. In the process it may loosen slightly, hence the need for the OP to constantly tighten them, and by doing so he pulls it back into the position whereby the imperfection is once again causing the issue.

Cass

Of course the simple and most obvious solution would be as you said cookie, that there is an issue with the threading on the rings and this is causing the issue.

cookimonster

Cass, your rational is correct, I would think loose mounts would cause inconsistent POI but damaged or faulty components could replicate the same results time after time....

shooting101

That's correct Cass,

After checking again today ther loose again and quite loose! Where would you suggest getting them online or should I just get them in my local firearm dealer?

Thanks Cillian.

Cass

The picatinny rail might be a problem to get, but if the rings are the problem then another set to fit dovetail rail will/should solve the problem.

I'd recommend you go to an RFD with the gun to avoid ordering the wrong size/height. I reckon you'll need at least a high set if not extra high. They'll need to be 25mm/1" tube, and high/extra high to fit a 9-11mm dovetail rail (this is what the CZ have).

I used a set of Hawke ones. They are only €25 and i've used them to great success on everything from .17 to .223. not saying they're the best so if you have more to spend by all means go for, but getting a better brand in the specs you need is not easy. Whereas the Hawke ones are stored in most every RFD. They may also be called Sportsmatch.

shooting101

Hi Cass,

After looking at the various shootinf shops online I saw the exact same and they were Hawke double screw nut, do you think it was the mounts or the dovetail?

Thanks.

Cass

shooting101 wrote: »

, do you think it was the mounts or the dovetail?

Thanks.

It's nearly 100% not the dovetail as this is part of the receiver and is a fixed item. By fixed i mean it's part of the gun and not a feature that is added later on. If the dovetail were the problem then it's a faulty gun and needs to go back to the dealer.

Most likely, and going on what you said about the problem and how it changes, it's the rings.

garv123

I had a problem with my hmr where it was losing zero. I paid 50quid for second hand "Good Mounts" off my local RFD.

I was blaming the scope Since my Very very very local RFD wouldnt sell me ****e right? Ud think so until the mounts got so loose once they slid off the gun. Never bought a thing off the Wánker after that.

Sportsmatch mounts are great value for money, ive had a few sets now and never had an issue with any. Really does sound like it could be the mounts.

Melodeon

This isn't the classic '3/8" mount on a 9mm dovetail' scenario by any chance, is it???

Cass

Could be. For European rifles it's always 9-11 mm.

Another solution i was thinking of was buying a set of 9-11mm dovetail to picatinny adaptors and then buying picatinny rings to suit.

Melodeon

Yeah, I'm just wondering if the OP has wound up with 3/8" mounts, which at 9.5mm wouldn't tighten properly on a 9mm dovetail.
They'd appear to be pretty snug, but either the screws would be bottomed out on their threads or the clamp would be wound down solid and at the same time the jaws of the mount wouldn't be all that tight on the dovetail on the receiver.

Also, if the mounts have a 2-piece clamp, the movable piece could be flipped over leading to tightening issues too.

garv123

Melodeon wrote: »

Yeah, I'm just wondering if the OP has wound up with 3/8" mounts, which at 9.5mm wouldn't tighten properly on a 9mm dovetail.
They'd appear to be pretty snug, but either the screws would be bottomed out on their threads or the clamp would be wound down solid and at the same time the jaws of the mount wouldn't be all that tight on the dovetail on the receiver.

Do most mounts not say they fit 9-11mm dovetails though?

Melodeon

garv123 wrote: »

Do most mounts not say they fit 9-11mm dovetails though?

At the budget end of the market, possibly not. Add variable manufacturing tolerances into the mix, and who knows what you'd end up with.
Lots of RFD's have a big-box-o-mounts that have been salvaged/unpacked/returned/swapped/etc, that they go to for customers who aren't specifically looking for high end stuff. You could find anything in that.

Cass

garv123 wrote: »

Do most mounts not say they fit 9-11mm dovetails though?

Some say they'll do both, but frankly i don't trust them. It's why i always go for specific mounts. Not a generic type.

It's the same as guns. You know the ones that say "Great for 1,000 yard shooting, and just as comfortable in the field" or some noise to that effect. The simple truth is a gun will do one thing very well and the other not so well. Guns that are "all rounders" are usually good at all things but not great/excellent at one specific thing.

Same with mounts. The "one size fits all" is not something i'd go for.

Deaf git

The CZ rimfire 'American' models have a dovetail that measure 12.7mm across. Mounts made for the more usual 11mm won't sit right and can loosen off. Warne split type rings or Millet fit them ok.
If the 'claws' on the bottom of the rings are accidentally fitted upside down they may not fit the dovetail just right and possibly loosen off.
Cheapie mounts are sometimes supplied with cheapie mounting screws, they stretch excessively while being tightened and WILL loosen off- decent screws from an engineering suppliers are a cheap fix if the threads in the ring are not damaged.

john jameson

I had simular problem with 17 hmr and a hawke scope and it turned out to be the scope rings did not suit the scope they worked fine for the leupold/Stevens that was fitted before but not for hawke I think the rings caused a little torque on the scope when tightened if ya know what I mean one ring might pull the scope slightly when tightening the rings . There are so many variables ya need to put aside a day and mess about rule out one thing at a time
There are mounts I think there called B L K mounts that are very precise
All the best

shooting101

Hi all,

Thanks for all answers and so on, we are planning on getting some new mounts, either millet, Burris, etc. Hopefully these are actually the problem.,. They do keep loosing so I'll update in a week or 2 when we get the mounts..

Thanks.