ESB public charging plans

pwurple

Deleted User wrote: »

What would explode EV sales more than anything would be the use of the Left lane on the M50 and Naas road exclusively for electric cars ! hahaha

Haha indeed. Not much use to any of the 3 million people who live outside the dublin area.

BoatMad

Originally Posted by Mad_Lad View Post
What would explode EV sales more than anything would be the use of the Left lane on the M50 and Naas road exclusively for electric cars ! hahaha

nor the riots that would ensue.

pwurple

Deleted User wrote: »

Free public charging until now had little effect on sales and ultra low running costs and 10K off the cost of a Leaf etc.

You think sales doubling year on year is no effect?

Let's see what january brings, and if that trend continues, or evaporates.

pwurple

And the rumour is that the monthly fee plan is being rolled back.... Nice one.

I hope this is true, and the new plan is well-formed.

Yawlboy

pwurple wrote: »

And the rumour is that the monthly fee plan is being rolled back.... Nice one.

I hope this is true, and the new plan is well-formed.

Confirmation would be nice!!!

Lutecia

Unfortunately it will come too late. People are ordering their 161 cars now. Damage is done already.
January EV sales won't be impressive. Now let's see how ESB will rectify their offer.

Jaketherake

Lutecia wrote: »

Unfortunately it will come too late. People are ordering their 161 cars now. Damage is done already.
January EV sales won't be impressive. Now let's see how ESB will rectify their offer.

I had the dealer where I cancelled the nissan leaf test drive ring me on Friday telling me that his source in he ESB told him that there was murder over this subscription and they are definitely now not going to be charging a subscription, but a charge based on KWh only.

He said they are just trying to come up with a way to spin it so they dont look like idiots before they announce it, but the decision has been made.

Anyway I took the car Friday evening and was driving it all yesterday too.
I went in for a fast charge in Glasnevin. The car was at 49% and took 27 minutes to charge to 80%. At 30c a minute thats €8.10 not including subscription charge for about 40Km. Not a chance of me falling for that ripoff. I met a leaf owner there and he said that particular charger seems to only ever charge at half the speed of all the other fast chargers in the country. Well that charger is my only experience of a fast charger and im not impressed.

Loved the car, but im not putting in any order for one until I know that there is no subscription charge and no extortionate rate to be charged either. So its still off the radar for now.

Lutecia

49 to 80% in 27mn is really poor. You would usually get more, but still a Rip off.
I have a Gen 1 Leaf and am not going to upgrade under current circumstances. Current ESB offer is making EVs only good for commute/city driving. Gonna charge home only and use the ICE for longer trips. At least I'll reach destination in decent times

davidgdlt

Jaketherake wrote: »

He said they are just trying to come up with a way to spin it so they dont look like idiots (...)

Readying popcorn...

pwurple

Jaketherake wrote: »

He said they are just trying to come up with a way to spin it so they dont look like idiots before they announce it, but the decision has been made .

They would want to get the finger out, or the January sale spike will disappear.

I hope to goodness they are not waiting to see a slump in January sales as justification.

BoatMad

pwurple wrote: »

They would want to get the finger out, or the January sale spike will disappear.

I hope to goodness they are not waiting to see a slump in January sales as justification.

Absolutely. I just put my leaf order on hold till April. Nobody would buy anything at the moment.

The dealers feel like we do. I've an email from mine saying it will kill the EV market if it remains as is.

steelboots

I'm going ahead with my new Leaf for Jan. The way I look at it is, 95% of my driving is in and out to work, weekend local trucking around.

The only difference to me is if I have longer journeys where a fast charge is required I will leave the Leaf at home and take my wifes ICE as there would be no financial advantage taking the leaf, and would have the 30 min wait.

Villain

A cold winter would do more damage to these chargers than anything else, comparing an EV to a Diesel during normal weather is one thing but comparing it to -10c weather is a totally different story, I saw someone post to FB group 40 minutes to 79% because they left heater on which is you are going to do in cold weather!!

BoatMad

Villain wrote: »

A cold winter would do more damage to these chargers than anything else, comparing an EV to a Diesel during normal weather is one thing but comparing it to -10c weather is a totally different story, I saw someone post to FB group 40 minutes to 79% because they left heater on which is you are going to do in cold weather!!

Noone is hiding the issues around charging , without active thermal management, as in the Leaf, then the ambient temperature has a big part to play

The heater is a minuscule draw on the current Leaf

Arguably Nissan should have factored in active temp management of the battery as almost everyone else has done. I suspect they will have to do as the packs get more powerful anyway

Firblog

Jaketherake wrote: »

I had the dealer where I cancelled the nissan leaf test drive ring me on Friday telling me that his source in he ESB told him that there was murder over this subscription and they are definitely now not going to be charging a subscription, but a charge based on KWh only.

He said they are just trying to come up with a way to spin it so they dont look like idiots before they announce it, but the decision has been made.

.

Feck ya..:rolleyes:

had decided not to go with the Leaf due to ESB pricing, was close to shaking hands on deal in KIA garage today; now you tell me this..
Thing is I really liked the Leaf, and not so pushed on the KIA ceed.. (even with 0% finance, decent trade-in, €500 sv voucher & 5 years free servicing)

Just writing that down makes it look an even better deal
What to do???

Jaketherake

Firblog wrote: »

Feck ya..:rolleyes:

had decided not to go with the Leaf due to ESB pricing, was close to shaking hands on deal in KIA garage today; now you tell me this..
Thing is I really liked the Leaf, and not so pushed on the KIA ceed.. (even with 0% finance, decent trade-in, €500 sv voucher & 5 years free servicing)

Just writing that down makes it look an even better deal
What to do???

I wouldnt believe anything til i see it about the ESB at this stage.
Sure they'll probably put the price up every few weeks too. It wouldnt surprise me. They havent a clue really.

Kia ceed is a great car for the price. My sister has a 1.6 diesel bought this year. Loves it.
0% finance and 5 year free servicing is worth a lot.

Villain

A member of the Facebook group got an update from the CER:

Thank you for your email.
We have updated our previous email to address the specific issue of ESBN's proposed charges for EVs. Please see below:
In CER/14/057 the CER set out its decision to provide for funding the EV pilot through network tariffs paid for by all distribution connected customers. This funding included a trial to understand the impact that EVs may have on the electricity distribution grid. This Decision also set out the CER's intention to review the future use of the infrastructure once the pilot had been completed. The CER expects to receive the final report from ESBN later this year.
When we receive that report we will review it and consider the appropriate next steps. Including the ownership of the infrastructure and whether a charging regime should apply. In deciding not to allow ESBN to include EV infrastructure on the regulated asset base the CER sought to strike a balance between the interests of consumers in terms of network costs, and by allowing an amount of funding for a pilot to gain a greater understanding of the potential impact electric vehicles may have on the system and electricity customers. This approach will help the CER make an informed decision in what is a new, and still developing, area.
In relation to the charges recently announced by ESBN, these were proposed charges. No final decision has been made on the implementation of any charges and a decision will not take place until after the CER has had the opportunity to review and consider the details of the ESBN report. Our expectation is that the ESBN report will be of a highly technical nature and it will take a number of months for the CER to review and make a decision on how to proceed. Unfortunately, due to the technical nature of the report and the complexity of the issues to be considered, we will not be able to provide a firm timeline on when the CER will be in a position to make a decision. In the interim we can confirm that the proposed ESBN charges will not be implemented in January as had previously been announced.
Yours sincerely,
Lorna Powell
Customer Care Team

DrPhilG

So my rough understanding of that is that the CER are saying that the ESB has jumped the gun by announcing the charges, and those charges have to be approved by the CER before implementation?

And the CER do not expect to have made their decision for at least a few months?

Villain

That is it exactly, but it does not mean charges won't come, the interesting bit for me from the whole CER thing is that the ESB may not own the infrastructure after this trial!

DrPhilG

Well then surely the big step now is for users and the Association to start lobbying the CER, rather than the ESB?

Villain

DrPhilG wrote: »

Well then surely the big step now is for users and the Association to start lobbying the CER, rather than the ESB?

Yep exactly!

Rafal

Not that it adds much new, but here is the header, from Nissan Ireland, that appeared above that CER statement:

The Commission for Energy Regulation (CER) have issued a statement today in which they have announced their decision to stop the implementation of the plans for customer charging on the public infrastructure for now. Their statement (Below) suggests that it will be several months before they will be in a position to give their views on the best way forward. Please ensure that you go back to any customers who have had issues with the proposed new charging in the light of this development.

GreyDad

With the benefit of being on the other side of the Irish Sea, all I can say is what a fascinating thread.

I started reading with the announcement of the charges and wondered how this would work for visitors like ourselves who would like to EV over to Ireland. Today I've just reached this point where the whole basis for those charges has been removed, at least for the time being. Amazing.

ESBN may have done themselves a big disfavour by jumping the gun, as they've revealed to CER what their likely intentions are once they have a full hold on the network and this may not suit CER's objectives, of course.

I'll keep watching and reading, good luck with the lobbying and I hope CER come through with an equitable solution.

reboot

GreyDad wrote: »

With the benefit of being on the other side of the Irish Sea, all I can say is what a fascinating thread.

I started reading with the announcement of the charges and wondered how this would work for visitors like ourselves who would like to EV over to Ireland. Today I've just reached this point where the whole basis for those charges has been removed, at least for the time being. Amazing.

ESBN may have done themselves a big disfavour by jumping the gun, as they've revealed to CER what their likely intentions are once they have a full hold on the network and this may not suit CER's objectives, of course.

I'll keep watching and reading, good luck with the lobbying and I hope CER come through with an equitable solution.

I note that Ecarni.com where quick to post that no charges would apply in N.Ireland at least up to Feb 2016. What they haven't addressed is my concern that since the "Handover" to ESB,there appears to have been a strange cascade of CP disconnects from supply.Abtran can't comment over the weekend as they only note faults Mon to Fri?

Jaketherake

Sounds like good news, but now i dont trust the ESB.
The nissan leaf is off the table for me until they let me know exactly what they are going to be charging customers.
No point buying one in January only to hear in March what the charges will be.

I have a feeling new year sales will tell a lot now. Very badly played ESB.

Rafal

I heard that the whole ESB discussion may have been good publicity and sales are up.

cros13

Jaketherake wrote: »

The nissan leaf is off the table for me until they let me know exactly what they are going to be charging customers.
No point buying one in January only to hear in March what the charges will be.

Well unless your commute includes public charging it's unlikely to impact you substantially.

Even with my high mileage (50,000 km per annum) 85-90% of charging is at home where you have control over what it costs. You don't have to buy anything from ESB, if you were bloody minded enough and willing to beg access to plugs and wait for the charge you could do malin to mizen head without paying them a cent.

The cries of EVs becoming more expensive to run than diesel are largely facetious. Sure it's true for specific journeys (like dublin to galway) on ESB's pricing, but 90% of your driving will still be on your home per kWh rate which is 10 times cheaper than diesel.

That's a big part of the issues ESB face in making the network commercially viable on the back of 1400 users. Electricity is everywhere and an EV doesn't need a special brand of it.

Jaketherake

Rafal wrote: »

I heard that the whole ESB discussion may have been good publicity and sales are up.

I doubt that.
I know myself and at least one other person i know who was planning to buy a leaf has put it off. Lets see what happens in the new year

Jaketherake

cros13 wrote: »

Well unless your commute includes public charging it's unlikely to impact you substantially.

Even with my high mileage (50,000 km per annum) 85-90% of charging is at home where you have control over what it costs. You don't have to buy anything from ESB, if you were bloody minded enough and willing to beg access to plugs and wait for the charge you could do malin to mizen head without paying them a cent.

The cries of EVs becoming more expensive to run than diesel are largely facetious. Sure it's true for specific journeys (like dublin to galway) on ESB's pricing, but 90% of your driving will still be on your home per kWh rate which is 10 times cheaper than diesel.

That's a big part of the issues ESB face in making the network commercially viable on the back of 1400 users. Electricity is everywhere and an EV doesn't need a special brand of it.

As usual everyone thinks that all other peoples usage is the same as their own.

cros13

Jaketherake wrote: »

As usual everyone thinks that all other peoples usage is the same as their own.

cros13 wrote: »

Well unless your commute includes public charging it's unlikely to impact you substantially.

Your characterisation is unfair, inaccurate and reflects more on your reading of my post than the content therein.