ESB public charging plans

nokia69

nokia69 wrote: »

this will only be a problem for a while, I see your point about people wasting time at chargers, but in the future I think there will be far less problems with installing chargers at apartments or rented houses, so it won't be a problem in the long term IMO

Management agencies and Co. Councils blocking charge point installation will only really be solved politically and this isn't even on the cards.

nokia69 wrote: »

Maybe but I doubt it, this is Ireland after all, it just looked like another short sighted rip-off to me.
any kind of fair payment system for public charging would greatly enhance the efficiency of the public charging network, no need to turn it into a scam

I don't think it was a scam, you see if we are to be billed by Kwh then it still won't be cheap and as I said down the road when 100 Kw charging comes out we benefit a lot more by getting twice the charge in the same time @ 100 Kw, while this will take time of course I don't think the proposed charges were a rip off. Obviously I am the minority and I accept this.

I said time and time again, using the network daily for 10 mins 5 days a week I stand to save at least 100-120 PM over diesel.

If I take a long trip a couple of times a year and it costs the same or more as diesel I really don't care if 95+ of the time I am charging from home as the majority of people will.

I never said the 17 Pm was fair but I wouldn't sign up unless I needed to.

It's obvious they need to re think it all and I am sure they will and I am sure it will all be sorted by the time the majority of people even begin to think about changing to EV.

One thing for sure though is as batteries get larger then we won;t rely on the network nearly as much and having multiple battery options might keep the cost down but the larger batteries will guarantee a lot less use of the public the network.

Usage will grow considerably due to larger numbers having an ev and taking trips but over all reliance will greatly reduce.

simdan

So has anyone heard any news on this? We are creeping closer and closer and I've seen no announcements or mention of any updates on pricing plans or adjustments. Is it a case of, it's just going to happen as originally planned..?

pwurple

simdan wrote: »

So has anyone heard any news on this? We are creeping closer and closer and I've seen no announcements or mention of any updates on pricing plans or adjustments. Is it a case of, it's just going to happen as originally planned..?

It can't happen as originaly planned, because it failed to meet the EU standards of open access.

I expect no decision will be made in the short term,especially as the uncertainty looks likes it hammered EV sales in jan/feb. Sales were doubling year on year until that PR tomfoolery. People regularly tell me I pay twice the price of diesel for street charging... Le sigh.

simdan

pwurple wrote:

I expect no decision will be made in the short term,especially as the uncertainty looks likes it hammered EV sales in jan/feb. Sales were doubling year on year until that PR tomfoolery. People regularly tell me I pay twice the price of diesel for street charging... Le sigh.

Cheers! I really hope it remains free for as long as possible. I rarely use public chargers but a long trip would be costly and would probably turn me off my lovely leaf. Paying €9 for 100km of motorway with a 30 minute wait sounds horrible. Let's see what happens..

BoatMad

simdan wrote: »

Cheers! I really hope it remains free for as long as possible. I rarely use public chargers but a long trip would be costly and would probably turn me off my lovely leaf. Paying €9 for 100km of motorway with a 30 minute wait sounds horrible. Let's see what happens..

I dont expect any announcement this side of any Gov being formed .my sources tell me.

Firblog

BoatMad wrote: »

I dont expect any announcement this side of any Gov being formed .my sources tell me.

Around August then?

homer911

Firblog wrote: »

Around August then?

Which year?

The Government, Nissan and Renault are the ones who asked ESBN to provide the network, they have done so yet they contributed nothing !

Imagine there weren't the E.U funded fast chargers ?

Where's the money going to come from for future chargers because I would imagine from the ESB's business point of view the network is a huge waste of money.

Truth be told , the ESB could sell the network , we'll know about charges if that happens in order for their to be a profit. Would they sell it though ? if electrics take off in the next 10 years or so then it could work out very profitable.

macnab

There is a new Applegreen in Trim, I don't think they have any EV charging. There is a new Maxol being built in Mulhuddart, they "currently" have no plans to provide EV charge points either.
I think there is a lack of joined up thinking in relation to EV charging. It's a bit of a head in the sand approach which I just can't understand.

BoatMad

It will have to be sold off. The esb can't retail electricity

steelboots

macnab wrote: »

There is a new Applegreen in Trim, I don't think they have any EV charging. There is a new Maxol being built in Mulhuddart, they "currently" have no plans to provide EV charge points either.
I think there is a lack of joined up thinking in relation to EV charging. It's a bit of a head in the sand approach which I just can't understand.

Yep, the Obama plaza, new Birdhill stations on the M7 didn't put in any charging points either. Twice I stopped at the Portlaois Mid Way and there were EVs charging so I had to wait.

I really believe the EVs are currently just suited to commuter cars (i.e in and out to work, weekend run about) and the occasional long trip if you have to. I did a trip down home which would normally take 4.5 hrs (240kms) and in the Leaf it took about 6.5hrs (2.5 charges) and driving slower. Could have taken the wifes ICE but just wanted to try it, won't be trying it again unless I'm stuck. Granted I did save about €25 on fuel.

Villain

I test drove a Tesla yesterday at their Irish event and had an interesting conversation with their team around ESB Plans, mind you when you sit into a 70D and see a range of 265km on the clock you don't worry about charging too much!

Sabre Man

Villain wrote: »

I test drove a Tesla yesterday at their Irish event and had an interesting conversation with their team around ESB Plans, mind you when you sit into a 70D and see a range of 265km on the clock you don't worry about charging too much!

Did they say anything about when/where they would be opening showrooms here?

Villain

They don't have a date yet but still aiming for this year.

ted1

Villain wrote: »

They don't have a date yet but still aiming for this year.

They were in the office today, had a good chuckle when they came in . Tesla branded baseball hat, jacket and pants, reminded me if Duff man. Anyway things are progressing

ted1

BoatMad wrote: »

It will have to be sold off. The esb can't retail electricity

Electric Ireland.... And the ESB do sell commercially

BoatMad

ted1 wrote: »

Electric Ireland.... And the ESB do sell commercially

electric ireland is not the ESB per se

ted1

BoatMad wrote: »

electric ireland is not the ESB per se

Per se, ask anyone in electric Ireland where head office is and they won't say swift square

BoatMad

ted1 wrote: »

Per se, ask anyone in electric Ireland where head office is and they won't say swift square

noi matter, the network simply could not be handled to electric ireland, there would most likely be a competitive tender and the "best man wins" etc ( probably DOB )

kala85

Sorry I'm new to this thread and I just want to check.

Are the esb proposing to charge 17e per month for on street charging. When you use this electricity from the public charger is the electricity free or how is it charged for?

How long does the public charger take?

If the chargers say are located in a topaz station,are they still covered using the esb monthly charge.

Also for Home charging , is it possible to work out how much the home electricity is being used to charge the car. For example, I want to separate the two bills from the main bill. How can this be done.

Finally what's the chepaest way to charge at home.

Will the battery degrade quicker if it is not charged correctly

Also how can I work out the cost of the ev in comparison to diesel or petrol car

Hector Mildew

Looks like no charges "for the moment"

http://m.independent.ie/life/motoring/car-news/electric-cars-esb-charges-remain-on-hold-amid-calls-for-scrappage-bik-cuts-and-17000-taxi-deal-34542765.html

kala85

kala85 wrote: »

Sorry I'm new to this thread and I just want to check.

Are the esb proposing to charge 17e per month for on street charging. When you use this electricity from the public charger is the electricity free or how is it charged for?

The proposed ESB charges have been suspended for the foreseeable future.

There was not going to be a charge for the electricity, the charge would be for the use of the chargers costing 30 C per min on the fast chargers, the 17 PM would include free use of the standard street charge points. You could also sign up for a months rental if you intended using the fast chargers.

kala85 wrote: »

How long does the public charger take?

A fast charge with the 24 Kwh battery will take about 30 mins from about 18-80% a few mins more if the battery is very cold. The new 30 Kwh battery charges in about 33 mins to 90% which is a lot faster than the 24 Kwh and for more range. 80% in the 30 Kwh is more range than the 24 Kwh charged to 100%.

The standard street charge points will charge the 24 Kwh leaf from 30-90% in about 2 -2.5 hrs with the optional 900 Euro's Extra 6.6 Kw charger, the standard charger is a 3.3 Kw and will take double the time to charge, I have the 6.6 kw and I highly recommend it especially if someone had the 30 Kwh larger battery.

While most people will mainly charge at night the 3.3 Kw charger will suffice for the majority of the time but while out and about the 6.6 Kw makes a huge difference and can mean a lot of the time you won't need to find and wait at a fast charger, just get back tot he car and drive off or if you do need to fast charge then the 6.6 Kw charger can mean you get enough in the battery to seriously reduce the time you need to spend on a fast charger.

kala85 wrote: »

If the chargers say are located in a topaz station,are they still covered using the esb monthly charge.

Yes the chargers are owned by the ESB, Garage owners are not going to spend the money on a single fast charger (not yet at least) a lot of garage owners won't agree to the installation of a fast charger on their premises.

kala85 wrote: »

Also for Home charging , is it possible to work out how much the home electricity is being used to charge the car. For example, I want to separate the two bills from the main bill. How can this be done.

Yes, at least with the Nissan Leaf you can log into car wings on the Nissan website and it will tell you how much each trip consumed in kwh and you can monitor your yearly usage. I'm not sure if this feature is enabled automatically I can't remember.

Say if you consumed 50 Kwh in the week then just multiply the Kwh by the cost of your electricity, in my case it's 8.4 Cent per Kwh on night rate , then 50 Kwh would cost you 4 Euro 20 cent but the charger in the car isn't 100% efficient so it will consume some electricity , it's 90% efficient so just add 10% to the cost of the electricity so the total cost for 50 Kwh would be 4.20 + 10% = 4.62.

kala85 wrote: »

Finally what's the chepaest way to charge at home.

On night rate electricity, the night meter costs 50 Euro's a year extra rental but in my case it was paid back in about a month.

kala85 wrote: »

Will the battery degrade quicker if it is not charged correctly

The battery management system looks after the battery, the 2014 + battery is a lot more robust than the 2011-late 2013.

If you intend keeping the car a long time then there are some things to do to help extend the life such as not leaving it plugged in at 100% all the time and allow it to run below 80% before charging again and don't let it run much below 30% when you don't need the full charge. Top up when out and about at the slow charge points or standard charge points rather than run the battery very low.

If you do about 20 miles a day or 40 kms then there's no point charging it to 100%, you can set it to charge to 80% in the timer menu.

kala85 wrote: »

Also how can I work out the cost of the ev in comparison to diesel or petrol car

The Leaf costs as much as a Diesel equivalent to buy , it's not more expensive and will usually be higher equipped, and cost a lot less to maintain, it also has remote activation of heating and AC and timer controlled and before you think you wouldn't be bothered with all that , I guarantee after one winter you would not want to be without it again !

Some Leaf dealers are being dishonest and sticking a next service due every 15,000 kms much the same as a petrol or diesel and most people won't know the difference, the leaf requires an inspection once a year or 30,000 kms whichever comes first. That's it, oh and windscreen washer fluid.

20,000 Kms will cost about 330 Euro's in the Leaf all on night rate excluding peak time top ups during peak times or free public charging.

Compared this to 1,084 Euro's in a 60 mpg diesel now this is a real 60 mpg averaged over the 20,000 Kms and not by resetting the trip computer every fill up, this is by not resetting it.

Over 40,000 Kms the Leaf will cost 660 Euro's and the Diesel 2,166 Euro's again this does not include free public charging.

Even if the ESB do introduce charges for the network for the majority of the time you'll charge at home.

If you were going to buy new then I would highly recommend the larger 30 Kwh battery and the 6.6 Kw charger and the 30 Kwh battery charges faster on the fast charger.

kala85

Thanks very much for that detailed reply.

Also just wondering if you can replace or buy a new battery if I intend to keep the car for the next five to six years.

If I buy a new leaf now what would it cost on scrappage and without scrappage and what would it be worth in three years time?

kala85

kala85 wrote: »

Thanks very much for that detailed reply.

Also just wondering if you can replace or buy a new battery if I intend to keep the car for the next five to six years.

If I buy a new leaf now what would it cost on scrappage and without scrappage and what would it be worth in three years time?

I think Nissan are offering 4,000 Scrappage on a Leaf. The mid spec costs about 25,500 Euro's and the top spec 28,500.

The 30 Kwh battery costs 3,000 extra.

If driving 30,000 kms a year it's unlikely you'll need to replace the battery after 5 years.

The original battery in the 2011-12 can now be replaced in Ireland for about 5,500 Euro's to the current model battery. Though in 5 years that will probably be half.

The prius battery costs about 2500 fitted if a new battery as needed, and the Prius battery is only about 1 Kwh of capacity with 500 watt hrs usable, the Leaf has 22 Kwh usable so makes the Prius battery ridiculously expensive by comparison.

The cars worth in 3 years is anyones guess but the current battery is proving to be very reliable and 2nd hand leafs would make cracking 2nd hand cars.

You can also lease the car and in 3 years get the new model with 300 kms range.

kala85

Thanks for that.

Do you have the link for where I can.lease the car.

kala85

kala85 wrote: »

Thanks for that.

Do you have the link for where I can.lease the car.

No link, you need to get a few quotes from the dealer, I usually do this by Email. You can adjust your monthly payments depending on the deposit you want to put down in the beginning.

The downside of leasing is that you won't own it until the final payment is paid, you don't have to pay this balloon if you want to get a new contract in 3 years but sometime it will have to be paid if you wish to own whatever car at the time.

Scottie99

Hector Mildew wrote: »

Looks like no charges "for the moment"

http://m.independent.ie/life/motoring/car-news/electric-cars-esb-charges-remain-on-hold-amid-calls-for-scrappage-bik-cuts-and-17000-taxi-deal-34542765.html

Was speaking to a Nissan representative today. He confirmed to me they'd received an email saying charging had been put on hold.

BoatMad

Scottie99 wrote: »

Was speaking to a Nissan representative today. He confirmed to me they'd received an email saying charging had been put on hold.

we dodged a bullet with that one .....

slave1

Interesting that a good few years later it is only now imminent

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2019/0823/1070469-electric-car/

The ESB has said an announcement is expected "sometime next month" in relation to the cost of using their public charging network for electric cars.

The company says motorists will be given a notice period of "around a month" before the charges will come into force.

A spokesperson said that 90% of charging is still done at home and the costs for using the public charging network "will still be significantly cheaper" than running a petrol or diesel car.

DrPhilG

That last paragraph is a worry. Suggests to me that they're going to big their arm in big time and justify it based on the theory that they're only price gouging 10% of your consumption.

Significantly cheaper than running a petrol or diesel "overall" but not on that particular journey when public charging is needed.

That's all well and good unless you're one of the very many early adopters who rely on the network regularly.