Increase in Bad Driving

onmebike

Has anybody else noticed an increase in incidents of driver aggression, lack of manners and general lack of consideration for cyclists in the last few weeks? I've been experiencing much more of these types of incidents and can almost hear the mental "f**k em" as they look at me when doing these things.

• Drivers passing way too close only to be held up in slow moving traffic seconds later and then re-passed by me (each day)
• Drivers accelerating, then braking hard to turn left immediately in front of me rather than slowing for a few seconds (multiple times each day)
• Drivers shooting up bus lanes, seemingly exceeding the speed limit, and passing way too close (most days)
• Drivers using the horn to indicate their displeasure with me not using rubbish cycle lanes (every few days)

These are things that will always happen on occasion, but there seems to me to be a notable increase inconsiderate behaviour. Anybody else see this or is it just me?

beauf

Maybe you're too far to the left?

Beasty

There are more drivers on the road as the economy grows and this is the busiest time of the year for traffic now the schools are back. More people wanting to get to where they want to be with minimum delay = more risks taken

seamus

Early October to mid-December is about the worst time on the road. The days are colder and wetter, so more people driving. The mornings (and evenings) are darker, so more people are grumpier and sleepier behind the wheel. Think about all those stresses you have in the morning - waking up to an alarm, dragging yourself out of bed, trying to get breakfast made while you drag the kids out of bed, get them dressed and hooshed out the door.

You get on your bike and all that stress goes away. Those other poor idiots get behind the wheel of a car. Imagine it.

Consequently, November is the worst month of the year for bicycle collisions.

Macy0161

I would say there's a general increase in aggression, not just towards cyclists. Also more motorists taking increased risks with bus lanes as the traffic gets worse - either just chancing their arm, or entering earlier and earlier when they're taking the next left.

onmebike

beauf wrote: »

Maybe you're too far to the left?

No different to usual. I usually have quite an assertive position...well outside double yellow lines, for example.

beauf

I would say its just a lot busier at the moment. Also there's a lot more accidents. On the M50/N3 have a multiple accidents (and tailbacks) a day now. Driving at you, and braking last minute for junctions, tailgating is now normal. Almost no visible enforcement I can see. I just plan my route to quieter roads, paths.

Jawgap

I think it's just a seasonal thing.

I've noticed in the past drivers tend to crankier from when the clocks go back until Christmas.

Maybe darker evenings / mornings mean people drive more cautiously and consequently things are even slower than usual?

onmebike

It did seem to coincide with the clocks going, but I thought I must be going mad. I've been cycling in the dark in the mornings for several weeks, so nothing really changed there.

I never knew that November was the worst month for collisions. I can see it making sense - it's a dark month but in December and January there's probably more of a tendency to frost which would put a lot of people off cycling.

jon1981

It's already been mentioned, there's more of a hurry this time of the year. Drivers rushing to schools to drop off kids, trying to beat the traffic. Generally loads more cars on the road and the roads are struggling to support it.

niallofthenine

onmebike wrote: »

Has anybody else noticed an increase in incidents of driver aggression, lack of manners and general lack of consideration for cyclists in the last few weeks? I've been experiencing much more of these types of incidents and can almost hear the mental "f**k em" as they look at me when doing these things.

• Drivers passing way too close only to be held up in slow moving traffic seconds later and then re-passed by me (each day)
  
  You have already said you have ample room to the left, perhaps if you shared some of that room you would be more comfortable, and safer, and of course if you used the cycle lanes, then you would not have the problem. Of course, we should be able to share the lane ... etc..
  
• Drivers accelerating, then braking hard to turn left immediately in front of me rather than slowing for a few seconds (multiple times each day)
  
  What do you want here? them to slow down for you, but you wont slow down for them? a bit of give and take will go a long way
  
• Drivers shooting up bus lanes, seemingly exceeding the speed limit, and passing way too close (most days)
  
  None of your business what speed cars drive at, but during operating hours they shouldnt be in the lane, of course a few metres isnt the end of the world, as mentioned above a bit of give and take wont kill anyone
  
• Drivers using the horn to indicate their displeasure with me not using rubbish cycle lanes (every few days)
  
  You're bringing that upon yourself to be fair. How would you react if a car drove exclusively on the cycle lane? If you are willing to cycle on the road, although you have been provided with a cycle lane, then be willing to deal with the consequences, and added risks.
  

These are things that will always happen on occasion, but there seems to me to be a notable increase inconsiderate behaviour. Anybody else see this or is it just me?

Concluding thoughts
-If everyone else is wrong, then the problem probably lies with you.

Beasty

I'm guessing most of the problems are in the Dublin commuter belt. Anyone seeing a big difference elsewhere?

Tenzor07

So when did bad driving ever decrease?

Rubberchikken

i don't think the excuse that it's november, wet, cold, busier whatever is a valid excuse for the way that some drivers and cyclists behave on our roads.
the arrogance/speed/ignorance/frustration are always there, it's just more noticable the more a person uses the roads and from the point of view of a cyclist who is obeying the rules, it has to be very dangerous at time and frustrating at other times.

personally i don't see a difference between road users i.e. cyclists/lorry drivers/cars. everyone on the road is entitled to use it. those that are most vunerable should be given a bit of leeway.

of course, some cyclists would probably make a driver tear their hair out, but a little bit of patience wouldn't go astray and an equal amount of cop on from every road user would make things a whole lot easier. but i realise that's unachievable so i'll stick with me doing my best;)

Beasty

No one is suggesting it's an excuse. The points are being made as explanations of increasing incidents of bad and risky driving

jon1981

Some tips


http://www.stickybottle.com/latest-news/are-you-a-psycho-in-the-saddle-score-two-or-more-here-and-you-need-to-chill/

2 You think drivers are getting worse

Undoubtedly there are still some really awful drivers on the roads and those who actively hate cyclists. But with the boom in cycling across the island of Ireland in recent years, motorists are more aware they are sharing the roads with an army of men and women on two wheels. Don’t get us wrong; there is still a long, long way to go before all drivers recognise that cyclists have as much right as they have to be on the roads. But, by and large, things are getting better.

So OP are you a psycholist rather than a cyclist?

Beasty

Tenzor07 wrote: »

So when did bad driving ever decrease?

There was without doubt a significant improvement throughout the recession largely (if not exclusively) down to the fact there were a lot less motor vehicles on the road.

On the other side the BTW scheme and indeed the impact if the recession have contributed to a significant increase in cyclists on the road and the behaviour of quite a significant number of cyclists has certainly not helped the situation.

jon1981

To the point above, I came out of smithfield from work last night at 6pm, pitch black. Immediately encountered 2 cyclists wearing dark clothing and not an LED or Bulb in sight. You would be forgiven for not seeing them as a driver. Shared responsibility between cyclist and driver here. You can't be be going out like that at this time of the year.

Fian

niallofthenine wrote: »

You're bringing that upon yourself to be fair. How would you react if a car drove exclusively on the cycle lane? If you are willing to cycle on the road, although you have been provided with a cycle lane, then be willing to deal with the consequences, and added risks.


Concluding thoughts
-If everyone else is wrong, then the problem probably lies with you.

Cyclists have as much entitlement to use the road as car drivers, despite taking up considerable less of it and causing less congestion or pollution. The fact that a cyclist chooses the road rather than a sub-standard cycle lane does not entitle any other vehicles to expose them to added risks.

Go away.

onmebike

niallofthenine wrote: »

Concluding thoughts
-If everyone else is wrong, then the problem probably lies with you.

Bit of a curve ball there. I didn't say everyone or even imply it. I'm referring to a perceived increase.

I started this thread to ask if others have seen it too and it appears that others have.

Beasty

Fian wrote: »

Go away.

If you have a problem with a post or poster report the post or PM the mods. Any questions PM me - do not respond to this warning in-thread

onmebike

jon1981 wrote: »

Some tips


http://www.stickybottle.com/latest-news/are-you-a-psycho-in-the-saddle-score-two-or-more-here-and-you-need-to-chill/




So OP are you a psycholist rather than a cyclist?

I'd say the latter. I don't wilt under pressure from cars that are in places that they shouldn't be, but I wouldn't be flipping the bird at everybody who 'wrongs' me.

JBokeh

All the fair-weather clueless commuters are in their cars again now, driving with the same amount of awareness which they cycle with. The type of lad on a bike his sister got when she was 16, with his pants getting sucked through the chainrings, that gives you dirty looks for stopping at a red light, even though you're only to pass him as soon as they turn green. Now he is in his car with the phone glued to the ear, moaning about cyclists in his way

I travel early to avoid the main rush of traffic, but if i'm making a call somewhere I've noticed that as soon as the clocks go back, it is mainly the die hard cyclists are out on their bikes, and the morons are in their cars.

jon1981

onmebike wrote: »

I'd say the latter. I don't wilt under pressure from cars that are in places that they shouldn't be

I'm not ashamed to wilt. I think you need to cycle defensively, by that i don't mean carry a machete with me, i mean if I know a driver is doing or likely to do something stupid that creates a 1-2 tonne vehicle vs 75Kg me situation, i'm backing down. No point in risking a few broken bones or worse to keep the moral high ground.

duffman3833

its not just this time of year, all year round, Some, not all, people are just bad. Roundabouts are worse now, i cant trust a single car on a roundabout as they don't know how to indicate, be in correct lane etc. I often see people indicating to turn off a roundabout but end up going round it and me nearly pulling out but yes this time of year certainly has an increase of Stupidity as the weather is colder and duller and people insist on driving everywhere

schemingbohemia

jon1981 wrote: »

To the point above, I came out of smithfield from work last night at 6pm, pitch black. Immediately encountered 2 cyclists wearing dark clothing and not an LED or Bulb in sight. You would be forgiven for not seeing them as a driver. Shared responsibility between cyclist and driver here. You can't be be going out like that at this time of the year.

Just about was able to see a Taxi without headlights on last night, this is obviously proof of something or other.......probably whataboutery.....

schemingbohemia

JBokeh wrote: »

All the fair-weather clueless commuters are in their cars again now, driving with the same amount of awareness which they cycle with. The type of lad on a bike his sister got when she was 16, with his pants getting sucked through the chainrings, that gives you dirty looks for stopping at a red light, even though you're only to pass him as soon as they turn green. Now he is in his car with the phone glued to the ear, moaning about cyclists in his way

I travel early to avoid the main rush of traffic, but if i'm making a call somewhere I've noticed that as soon as the clocks go back, it is mainly the die hard cyclists are out on their bikes, and the morons are in their cars.

this is just charming on so many levels

Harrybelafonte

It's probably just all the fairweather cyclists deciding to start driving to work again.

niallofthenine

Fian wrote: »

Cyclists have as much entitlement to use the road as car drivers, despite taking up considerable less of it and causing less congestion or pollution. The fact that a cyclist chooses the road rather than a sub-standard cycle lane does not entitle any other vehicles to expose them to added risks.

Go away.

I like the way you took 1 snippet of what I said and tried to manipulate it to make it look like I'm trying to aggravate cyclists.
But to feed the troll, lets digest what you have said.

Cyclists have as much entitlement to use the road as car drivers
A+, very good observation, one which had not been explored before now, and one which no one on this thread disputed.

despite taking up considerable less of it and causing less congestion or pollution
Good to know the pro's and cons of cycling, albeit not the title of the thread

The fact that a cyclist chooses the road rather than a sub-standard cycle lane does not entitle any other vehicles to expose them to added risks.


Please allow me to dumb this down a little further for our challenged readers.
If im in a field, playing on my own, there is a hugely improbable (but not impossible) chance that i am going to get run over by a car - this would be solely due to inattention of the driver.
However, if in fact i take my playing to the side of the road, then the risk of me getting hit by a car dramatically increases, due to several reasons,
1 being that im at the side of the road.
2 im not as easy to see as a car
3 i may run out onto the road (to avoid a pothole, or a speed wobble for cyclists)
4 inattention of my playing
5 inattention of the driver
and a cluster of other anomalies. So in essence, by the very nature of cycling on the road, the cyclist is exposing his or herself to increased risk of injury or death and only one of those reasons is solely due to malice on a drivers behalf. when you decide to cycle on the road, even when there is a cycle lane available, you should be aware of the risk you have decided to take, and act accordingly. PS. Is it legal to cycle on the road when a cycle lane is provided?

I really would have thought this to be common sense anymore but it seems that common sense isnt all that common.

Finally, when an as5hole on 4 wheels meets an as5hole on 2 wheels, who wins? Cemetries are full of people who were "right"

brianomc

Something I've noticed recently is cars taking off from lights as soon as the lights turn red for the traffic coming across them. Pair this with people going through lights for 3 seconds after they turn red and it wont end well.

I had some clown do this in the fog this morning at Conyngham Road where it meets the park. Luckily no cars were leaving the park at the time, just a cyclist, and even he nervously joined up with the main road after breaking the lights.

If everyone just relaxed a little we'd be doing fine. I have to admit, when I was driving I suffered the worst road rage. I didn't speed or break red lights but the sight of someone changing lane without indicating led to me vocalising my thoughts. Someone behind beeps their horn at me, aw hell no, time for me to crawl along to piss them off further. Probably the result of it taking me an hour to drive 7km.

seamus

niallofthenine wrote: »

If im in a field, playing on my own, there is a hugely improbable (but not impossible) chance that i am going to get run over by a car - this would be solely due to inattention of the driver.

Your analogy only holds up if you're playing in a field with a number of roads running right through the middle of it.

Off-road Cycle tracks that run parallel to the road typically increase the chances of a collision. Cycle tracks that run *on* the road reduce this risk.

This is to do with the nature of conflict - where the road and the cycle track intersect, there's a far higher chance of collision due to the inattention of the cyclist or the driver. On-road cycle tracks don't suffer the same issue since the intersections are treated the same as for other traffic.

There are also a lot of other issues such as maintenance and grip that mean you're far more likely to come off a bicycle on an off-road track than an on-road one.