Increase in Bad Driving

Chips Lovell

@niallofthenine

Please read the forum charter before posting again on this thread, in particular section 8.

Thank you.

Wishbone Ash

niallofthenine wrote: »

..PS. Is it legal to cycle on the road when a cycle lane is provided?..

Yes, the only exceptions are when the road is a counterflow or the cycle track is on a pedestrian area.

(You should really know this before you comment on cyclists' behaviour).

beauf

schemingbohemia wrote: »

Just about was able to see a Taxi without headlights on last night, this is obviously proof of something or other.......probably whataboutery.....

In the fog the other morning about 50% of cars had no lights on at all.

I haven't the foggiest what that implies either.

dermabrasion

Just a quick point about going when the opposing traffic light has just turned red; I do this on my bike, after checking no-one is (or likely to) run the red light. Specifically, I am clipped in and inching forward so I'm just moving when my light turns green. The reason I do this is to be assertive and establish my space ahead of following cars. I will have perhaps 10 meters on them before they catch me. Because I am ahead, they have a better chance of seeing me, and will have to over take me. Also, if I need to make a right turn, I have established the gap that allows me signal, and look behind directly at the driver. It gives me a better chance.
Of course, there are drivers who could not give a crap what I do.

check_six

beauf wrote: »

In the fog the other morning about 50% of cars had no lights on at all.

I haven't the foggiest what that implies either.

I felt this was especially ironic given that many people switch on their fog lights the rest of the time (because it makes the car look "nicer", apparently!!).

Wishbone Ash

check_six wrote: »

I felt this was especially ironic given that many people switch on their fog lights the rest of the time (because it makes the car look "nicer", apparently!!).

...and many totally unaware that it is illegal to do so. Of course, the nice salesman in the showroom has drawn their attention to the extra "spot lights" that the new model comes with!

dbagman

onmebike wrote:

Has anybody else noticed an increase in incidents of driver aggression, lack of manners and general lack of consideration for cyclists in the last few weeks? I've been experiencing much more of these types of incidents and can almost hear the mental "f**k em" as they look at me when doing these things. Drivers passing way too close only to be held up in slow moving traffic seconds later and then re-passed by me (each day)Drivers accelerating, then braking hard to turn left immediately in front of me rather than slowing for a few seconds (multiple times each day)Drivers shooting up bus lanes, seemingly exceeding the speed limit, and passing way too close (most days)Drivers using the horn to indicate their displeasure with me not using rubbish cycle lanes (every few days) These are things that will always happen on occasion, but there seems to me to be a notable increase inconsiderate behaviour. Anybody else see this or is it just me?

onmebike wrote:

Drivers using the horn to indicate their displeasure with me not using rubbish cycle lanes (every few days)

You see this gets right on my goat. Why wouldn't you use cycle lanes? I can guarantee if you were cycling on one and a car was parked on it blocking your way you'd be the first to complain. I don't get your reference to them being "rubbish". Bar covering them with red carpet how do you propose they improve them? It's a tarmac lane dedicated to cyclists. You cant be anything other than safer on them. What more do you want? How can't you understand people's fury with a cyclists refusal to use them and insistence on unneccessairly holding up traffic.

Chips Lovell

@dbagman

Please read the forum charter before posting again on this thread, in particular section 8.

Thank you.

Fian

dbagman wrote: »

You see this gets right on my goat. Why wouldn't you use cycle lanes? I can guarantee if you were cycling on one and a car was parked on it blocking your way you'd be the first to complain. I don't get your reference to them being "rubbish". Bar covering them with red carpet how do you propose they improve them? It's a tarmac lane dedicated to cyclists. You cant be anything other than safer on them. What more do you want? How can't you understand people's fury with a cyclists refusal to use them and insistence on unneccessairly holding up traffic.

An oversimplification but: there are generally two types of cycle lanes - on road and off road.

The on-road ones are indeed "a tarmac lane dedicated to cyclists" and personally I have never encountered a cyclist who refused to use an on-road lane, apart from popping out of it to overtake, turn right or avoid a pothole/puddle. Presumably there are some on-road lanes with a sufficiently awful surface that they don't get used but i have yet to find one in Dublin.

Then we have the off-road ones, like the cycle lane along the stillorgan dual carriageway. Again there are exceptions but for the most part these are not "a tarmac lane" - they are a thin layer of pink stuff laid down over the footpath. If they were just painted in place they would be far better because the pink stuff is all eroded and cratered, at least a path would be more smooth. The off road ones also frequently require cyclists to yield at every junction/bus stop where they would have the right of way if they were on the adjacent road. Cars are more likely to take a left turn across the path of a cyclist on these off road lanes. Basically these lanes are almost always less comfortable and less safe than using the road.

Cyclists have the option to use the roads or a cycle lane, they have no obligation to use a cycle lane. If they are choosing to use the road in preference to a cycle lane it is generally because it is a better option for them than the cycle lane.

I am sure you realise (or will if you think about it for a second) that cyclists are not doing it just to inconvenience / infuriate motorists - why would we? The motorists who beep at cyclist for not using the (optional ) cycle lanes, or worse yet who "punishment pass" closely to educate the cyclists presumably just have never tried cycling on one and don't realise how inadequate and dangerous those off road lanes are.

Jawgap

dbagman wrote: »

You see this gets right on my goat. Why wouldn't you use cycle lanes? I can guarantee if you were cycling on one and a car was parked on it blocking your way you'd be the first to complain. I don't get your reference to them being "rubbish". Bar covering them with red carpet how do you propose they improve them? It's a tarmac lane dedicated to cyclists. You cant be anything other than safer on them. What more do you want? How can't you understand people's fury with a cyclists refusal to use them and insistence on unneccessairly holding up traffic.

Cleaning them occasionally would be a good start (especially now we're in leaf fall season). Along with repairing some of the bigger potholes.

It would also be useful if they were routed on a 'micro' level to avoid drains and gratings - or if these items were of a construction that didn't present a risk to cyclists (gratings parallel to the direction of travel are an obvious no-no).

Also, in my view, on-road tracks are better because you have right-of-way and are not worried about anyone pulling out of a property entrance. Nor do you have to worry about navigating around pedestrians, bus queues, joggers, dog walkers etc.

Finally, if we are to have off road cycle tracks on pavements, removing things like bus stops in the track would help as would proper dishing of pavements where a cyclist is required to join a roadway.

jon1981

Another reason not to use some cycle lanes .... this is a beauty.

Cycle lane on the path on North strand road in Dublin which cuts right through a bus stop. Not safe for cyclist nor pedestrian.



Idea for a name and shame cycle lane thread ?!?! :cool:

MB Lacey

Cycling on the road, whether a cycle lane is there or not, from years of cycling experience, is my safest option and my legal right.

Cycle lanes off road are unpredictacle, stop suddenly, have people walking in them, bins, bus stops and road signs cemented into the middle, glass and debris on the surface and slippy wet leaves at this time of year too.
Off road Cycle lanes are not for me.

With regards to drivers, I've actually noticed way more thoughtful and considerate driving in the last few years due to the mass numbers of cyclists, drivers have become far more aware.
It's great.

mcgratheoin

Fian wrote: »

Presumably there are some on-road lanes with a sufficiently awful surface that they don't get used but i have yet to find one in Dublin.

Phoenix Park - Parkgate Gate to the first roundabout - beautifully smooth road surface with awful on-road cycle lane - this also tends to have an ice-cream van parked in it all summer long.

Jawgap

one of my favourites.......

Heading north you are expecting to cross the road to use this cycle track.....

Baron Kurtz

dermabrasion wrote: »

Just a quick point about going when the opposing traffic light has just turned red; I do this on my bike, after checking no-one is (or likely to) run the red light. Specifically, I am clipped in and inching forward so I'm just moving when my light turns green. The reason I do this is to be assertive and establish my space ahead of following cars. I will have perhaps 10 meters on them before they catch me. Because I am ahead, they have a better chance of seeing me, and will have to over take me. Also, if I need to make a right turn, I have established the gap that allows me signal, and look behind directly at the driver. It gives me a better chance.
Of course, there are drivers who could not give a crap what I do.

This is a valid point and one I've mentioned briefly with others. In particular I think something could be implemented for a right-turn ahead. Think Burlington Road with the potential to turn off to Appian Way. As you said it's about establishing early. If you're not positioned centre or make an early start then forget about getting in position make a RHTurn. Even prolonged signalling to attempt to move right will be ignored here.

Chips Lovell

I've never had to break the lights to make a right turn.

onmebike

dbagman wrote: »

You see this gets right on my goat. Why wouldn't you use cycle lanes? I can guarantee if you were cycling on one and a car was parked on it blocking your way you'd be the first to complain. I don't get your reference to them being "rubbish". Bar covering them with red carpet how do you propose they improve them? It's a tarmac lane dedicated to cyclists. You cant be anything other than safer on them. What more do you want? How can't you understand people's fury with a cyclists refusal to use them and insistence on unneccessairly holding up traffic.

Personally, my main reason is the much increased likelihood of getting a puncture when using one. The sweeping and maintenance of them typically ranges from non-existent to poor.

Your guarantee is wrong. Every day I pass lots of cars that are parked in cycle lanes and I don't complain. I get on with it. It's part of cycling/driving. Inconsiderate behaviour that is dangerous to me is something that I'm not quite so happy about.

Edit: Just to further clarify, cars and other vehicles tend to keep the surface of the main roadway clean from broken glass and other debris. Bigger tyres can pick that up with no ill effects. An off-road cycle lane doesn't have that traffic on it to keep it 'clean', so they are only cleaned on occasions when the council deliberately gets to them.

onmebike

dbagman wrote: »

...What more do you want? How can't you understand people's fury with a cyclists refusal to use them and insistence on unneccessairly holding up traffic.

And just to mention this point too. When I'm on a bike, I'm hardly a wide load on the road. The incidents that I'm talking about take place in typical traffic.

Every day I'm having cars pass me with a very narrow berth only to come to a stop behind another car in 20m. This might sound like an exaggeration, but it's not. It's as if passing me on the bike is the objective and paying attention to the trends of other traffic is secondary.

On other occasions where it's a fairly clear road, I've had drivers get upset when my presence slows them for about 5 seconds. E.g., I had a taxi beep at me last week when there were some islands on the overtaking side of the road. I had a fair tailwind so he only had to slow from 60km/h to 40km/h for about 5 seconds. Literally. I reckon his frustration was borne from not properly anticipating the road furniture and having to brake suddenly. It was easier to blame me than himself.

Baron Kurtz

Jep Gambardella wrote: »

I've never had to break the lights to make a right turn.

Good man.

Wishbone Ash

onmebike wrote: »

... I'm hardly a wide load on the road...

Therein lies your problem. Make yourself into a wide load and move out from the kerb. If you're travelling in an average width bus lane, no car/bus should physically be able to overtake you.

Wishbone Ash

dbagman wrote: »

... and insistence on unneccessairly holding up traffic.

Do you know what 'traffic' is?

07Lapierre

I Hate this one! especially at this time of year.

The Leaves fall off the trees, covering imperfections in the surface (The roots of the trees tend to push up thru the tarmac)..they also cover broken glass, dog poo etc. Also, The leaves are wet which makes them slippery.

And that's during daylight hours! when its dark its a nightmare I never use it!

Thud

onmebike wrote: »

Edit: Just to further clarify, cars and other vehicles tend to keep the surface of the main roadway clean from broken glass and other debris. Bigger tyres can pick that up with no ill effects. An off-road cycle lane doesn't have that traffic on it to keep it 'clean', so they are only cleaned on occasions when the council deliberately gets to them.

Vehicles also tend to stop ditches growing into the roadspace, there are several cyclelanes were overgrown briars stick out into the cyclelane, not ideal if you get hit by one in the face or hands

circadian

I cycle 30km daily and witness both terrible driving and cycling. I think one breeds the other in many cases and it's a vicious circle.

I always follow the rules of the road because it's a shared space and I don't fancy being hit side on by a car because I've run a red light. Some cyclists seem to ignore this and I've seen a fair few near misses. This I reckon breeds disdain for all cyclists for some drivers thus they drive aggresively.

On the other hand you have bad drivers that cause near misses with cyclists, causing some cyclists to behave more aggressively with drivers on the road.

The best thing to do is maintain the rules of the road, use common sense and not get worked up by idiots around you.

I'm currently learning to drive and the amount of people that dangerously overtake me, because of the L plates, is silly. I'm even going at the speed limit.

Moral of the story is you get asshats everywhere, buses, cars or bikes.

brianomc

dermabrasion wrote: »

Just a quick point about going when the opposing traffic light has just turned red; I do this on my bike, after checking no-one is (or likely to) run the red light. Specifically, I am clipped in and inching forward so I'm just moving when my light turns green. The reason I do this is to be assertive and establish my space ahead of following cars. I will have perhaps 10 meters on them before they catch me. Because I am ahead, they have a better chance of seeing me, and will have to over take me. Also, if I need to make a right turn, I have established the gap that allows me signal, and look behind directly at the driver. It gives me a better chance.
Of course, there are drivers who could not give a crap what I do.

On my commute I come from the Thomas Street direction heading towards Christchurch and take a right either before the Jurys or just after it depending on how I feel that day. There is an advance cycle stopping box at the traffic lights. I would say I use it about 10% of the time, the other 90% I will be sitting in the line of cars, usually around 4th or 5th. I park my bike in the middle of the lane meaning I am taking the lane, nobody is going to be able to pass me out and they have no problem seeing me. I'm not holding up anybody as I take off the same time as the car in front and can keep pace.

I could keep to the cycle lane on the left before the lights, and when I get to the top I could sit on the leftmost side, take off before my light has gone green and indicate to move into the righthand lane. Or when I get to the top I could roll across the stopping box and hope the lights dont go green while I get into position. But I don't see any harm in being part of the traffic, getting into the lane early and queueing up.

mr spuckler

brianomc wrote: »

I could keep to the cycle lane on the left before the lights, and when I get to the top I could sit on the leftmost side, take off before my light has gone green and indicate to move into the righthand lane. Or when I get to the top I could roll across the stopping box and hope the lights dont go green while I get into position. But I don't see any harm in being part of the traffic, getting into the lane early and queueing up.

i'm always amazed by people who do stay in the cycle lane or left most lane in cases like that. i always prefer to do as you've suggested except in very rare cases where i might have mis-timed my move!
heading out dame st, at the junction with george's st i go straight on towards dublin castle while there's also a filter lane for turning left, which always goes green first. cyclists frequently sit on the inside of that lane waiting to go straight on while cars & buses are trying to pass them to turn left. seems to me too be such a silly thing to do.

i don't find motorists any worse than in previous years and like to think that i see an upward trend in the number of cyclists who obey lights

jon1981

In Dublin city, particularly around the quays and most surrounding streets, the speed limit is only 30kph anyway, which myself and many cyclists would be quite capable of maintaining in the traffic lane so by the law not holding up the traffic. Of course at peak hours, the traffic never gets near this speed.

Chips Lovell

In terms of enforcement, it's purely anecdotal but I've noticed an uptick in the past few months.

For example, part of my commute is a long main road with bus lane all the way down it. After two years of never seeing the guards policing it, they've out around once a week recently, reefing people for driving in the bus lane.

Similarly, busy junction nearer home has recently often had either a Garda on foot or one on motorbike hauling up errant motorists and cyclists.

mr spuckler

interesting, the only place i ever see the gardai on mine is nabbing people going through the bus gate at college green. i've never seen them target the bus lane from fairview into town, which regularly sees private cars driving the whole length of it.
because they're taking a chance they tend to be the ones that drive closest to cyclists too. taxis and buses generally aren't too bad at just being patient or waiting for a gap to overtake.

Faith+1

jon1981 wrote: »

To the point above, I came out of smithfield from work last night at 6pm, pitch black. Immediately encountered 2 cyclists wearing dark clothing and not an LED or Bulb in sight. You would be forgiven for not seeing them as a driver. Shared responsibility between cyclist and driver here. You can't be be going out like that at this time of the year.

Last night I was reversing out my drive and nearly hit a cyclist. I'm a very observant driver who's never had any incidents but the guy was wearing all black clothing, no lights/helmet and not to be racist or anything but because he was black he looked like he was in stealth mode. How I didn't hit him is a mystery.

Btw I cycle myself and always wear hi-viz and use my lights.