Increase in Bad Driving

CramCycle

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tigerboon

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Qualitymark - once you have entered the junction you are entitled to proceed regardless of the lights changing. A green light does not mean 'go'. It only means that you may proceed if your way is clear and it is safe to do so. If the junction is not clear then it is not safe and road users with a green light must wait. You did nothing wrong.

While this is correct I'd imagine a lot of drivers are of the opinion a green means plant the boot and get ahead of the lad beside them. just to illustrate the standard of driving out there ( not meant to be whataboutery) from this mornings commute;
I live about 10km from the motorway. About 1km from the motorway I come up behind a bus that's crawling at about 30kmh on a straight bit of road in the countryside. Fair enough, although I think this is too slow I decide to stay behind. the 2 cars in front decide to overtake approaching the roundabout. Tight but a judgement call really and wouldn't call it reckless. The bus enters the roundabout on the left lane. He's doing a 180 degree turn to return to a stop. He continues on the outside lane all the way round. A car is coming round the roundabout towards me but a distance off. I would normally go but because the crawling bus is on the roundabout (at about 3 o'clock) I decide to wait. The van behind, who was up my arse for the last km, overtakes me on the left lane (i'm in the right lane to turn right 3rd exit), cuts to the inside lane, close to the oncoming car. In the meantime a car enters from the 3o'clock side, left lane to centre lane going straight through. Van nearly clears him out, both nearly collide with slow moving bus. Both continue on the dual carraigeway flashing and gesturing at each other in the overtaking lane.
Later, due to long delays on the M50, I decide to go through Lucan and Clondalkin this morning. Coming up Boot Road at a set of traffic lights, with pedestrian crossings, one driver decided he couldn't be bothered waiting for the green to allow him to go straight on. He uses the left filter lane to cut back with the green on that side once the traffic was clear on that side. He would have crossed 2 pedestrian crossings.
Qualitymark may be right in the situation above but don't underestimate the impatience of some drivers and some of the completely irrational decisions drivers make.

Qualitymark

tigerboon wrote: »

While this is correct I'd imagine a lot of drivers are of the opinion a green means plant the boot and get ahead of the lad beside them. just to illustrate the standard of driving out there ( not meant to be whataboutery) from this mornings commute;
I live about 10km from the motorway. About 1km from the motorway I come up behind a bus that's crawling at about 30kmh on a straight bit of road in the countryside. Fair enough, although I think this is too slow I decide to stay behind. the 2 cars in front decide to overtake approaching the roundabout. Tight but a judgement call really and wouldn't call it reckless. The bus enters the roundabout on the left lane. He's doing a 180 degree turn to return to a stop. He continues on the outside lane all the way round. A car is coming round the roundabout towards me but a distance off. I would normally go but because the crawling bus is on the roundabout (at about 3 o'clock) I decide to wait. The van behind, who was up my arse for the last km, overtakes me on the left lane (i'm in the right lane to turn right 3rd exit), cuts to the inside lane, close to the oncoming car. In the meantime a car enters from the 3o'clock side, left lane to centre lane going straight through. Van nearly clears him out, both nearly collide with slow moving bus. Both continue on the dual carraigeway flashing and gesturing at each other in the overtaking lane.
Later, due to long delays on the M50, I decide to go through Lucan and Clondalkin this morning. Coming up Boot Road at a set of traffic lights, with pedestrian crossings, one driver decided he couldn't be bothered waiting for the green to allow him to go straight on. He uses the left filter lane to cut back with the green on that side once the traffic was clear on that side. He would have crossed 2 pedestrian crossings.
Qualitymark may be right in the situation above but don't underestimate the impatience of some drivers and some of the completely irrational decisions drivers make.

There are times I wonder if a high proportion of the drivers on the road are drunk.

kazamo

Seeing as there is a call for sharing what we see here goes.

Have been out walking two nights this week and for about four hours in total. I have encountered eleven cyclists on the footpath this week and all but three had no lights. I particularly liked the sign saying "cyclists dismount" which was ignored by two of them. The ones that really bother me are the mobile phone users while cycling brigade similar to their driver equivalent if I made the rules, instant one year ban.

Motorists, don't know where to start....narrowly avoided a head on collision last weekend as driver behind me felt I was going too slow and overtook me approaching a blind bend. Apparently doing 60km in a 60km zone is a big no no.

Monday night we had fog and spotted four drivers going around with no lights. Kinda used to seeing that now and the number of one headlight wonders is staggering.
At one junction, stood waiting for little green pedestrian man, when it turned green had to wait for two drivers to complete breaking the lights.

Didn't see any pedestrian stupity but that may be down to the routes I took this week as well as a bit of rain. Did see a jogger who decided to cross the road without looking and only the quick actions of a driver saved her.

There is no grouping that can declare Angel status. Within each cohort there is a sufficient number of idiots who give the rest a bad name.

Qualitymark

kazamo wrote: »

Monday night we had fog and spotted four drivers going around with no lights. Kinda used to seeing that now and the number of one headlight wonders is staggering.

I thought the Cyclops drivers were finished when the Celtic Tiger happened, but immediately on the bank crash in 2008 they reappeared, along with the bashed-in cars and trailing fenders. Unnerving. Oh, and the 'parking' men in peaked caps; hadn't seen them all during the boom, and three days after the banks went blooey I saw my first.

tigerboon

Do people realise how dangerous driving with one headlight is especially when the driver side one is gone. It's one thing in the city where there is street lighting but on a dark wet country road it's madness. You cannot tell if it's a car or motorbike coming towards you, and you cannot judge the width of the car until it's close.

Beasty

tigerboon wrote: »

Do people realise how dangerous driving with one headlight is especially when the driver side one is gone. It's one thing in the city where there is street lighting but on a dark wet country road it's madness. You cannot tell if it's a car or motorbike coming towards you, and you cannot judge the width of the car until it's close.

Things like this, as well as a tendency to think fog lights are for everyday use, do wind me up. A little investment in "enforcement" would, I am sure, educate a lot of drivers and maybe make life for everyone on the road a little easier

tomasrojo

Qualitymark wrote: »

Oh, and the 'parking' men in peaked caps; hadn't seen them all during the boom, and three days after the banks went blooey I saw my first.

Think they used to be called Lock Hard Men. Brazil has its equivalent: the "flanelinha".

Tenzor07

Great video here, the car commute starts off well but quickly declines into major stress!


https://www.facebook.com/DGTes/videos/1074070805997958/?fref=nf

RainyDay

Qualitymark wrote: »

I wasn't breaking the lights; the green-to-red cycle on the road I was crossing was simply set too short for the speed of a cyclist. I have often noticed this on wide streets in Dublin.

Green-Amber-Red surely?

rusty cole wrote: »

sitting at the lights this morning in my car, light goes green and I'm just beginning to move forward. suddenly a guy crosses about a foot from my car, breaking the red light whilst wearing a helmet and all the trimmings!! oh yea so was his KID!!!! on the fookin back of his bike!!!yeah motorists are the problem alright! get a grip, it's a two way problem you guys are every bit as bad.

Yes, it is a two-way problem, but I'm not so sure about the 'every bit as bad' - Cyclists don't kill 200 people a year on the road and maim thousands of others.

Weepsie

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Great video here, the car commute starts off well but quickly declines into major stress!


https://www.facebook.com/DGTes/videos/1074070805997958/?fref=nf

RSA and DCC and other local authorities should be sent that and told to do the same.

munster87

furiousox wrote: »

Hardly surprising.

Must be a city thing? What's wrong with cycling on that cycle lane?

cython

munster87 wrote: »

Must be a city thing? What's wrong with cycling on that cycle lane?

I was wondering if that was a genuine question, but then noted this seems to be your first venture into the cycling forum. In any case, "what's wrong" with that path is manifold:

• Wet leaves can be ridiculously slippy
• Broken down wet leaf mush even more so
• Rubbish strewn on the path can damage bikes, or even cause people to come off if they hit it
• Said rubbish is a indicator of broken glass being quite likely on the path, which causes punctures

And that's from one photo. Almost certainly the common design flaws associated with off-road cycle paths in Ireland are also present if one were to go further along.

Weepsie

munster87 wrote: »

Must be a city thing? What's wrong with cycling on that cycle lane?

Others will explain better but to me, rubbish, little to know traction as it seems to be a gutter for wet leaves, and the lip/curb is just asking for someone to clip it, and go into the ground, particularly as bikes can and will wobble a bit.

Bit of a blind bend too

seamus

cython wrote: »

I was wondering if that was a genuine question, but then noted this seems to be your first venture into the cycling forum. In any case, "what's wrong" with that path is manifold:

• Wet leaves can be ridiculously slippy
• Broken down wet leaf mush even more so
• Rubbish strewn on the path can damage bikes, or even cause people to come off if they hit it
• Said rubbish is a indicator of broken glass being quite likely on the path, which causes punctures

And playing devil's advocate here, the question then becomes - "Well, if the track is dangerous and slippy, just slow down like a car would have to do".

To which the answer is - Why would I put myself through that hassle when I can just ride on the road, which is both safer and faster?

Wishbone Ash

kazamo wrote: »

...The ones that really bother me are the mobile phone users while cycling brigade similar to their driver equivalent if I made the rules, instant one year ban....

....There is no grouping that can declare Angel status. Within each cohort there is a sufficient number of idiots who give the rest a bad name.

In all fairness though, a driver of a 1 to 50 tonnes vehicle is much more likely to cause carnage when distracted on a mobile phone while driving than a cyclist while cycling. A cyclist is much more likely to cause injury to themselves in that scenario. I can only recall one incident over the years where a cyclist was deemed responsible for the death of another road user, whereas on the other hand.........

PS - I'm not excusing it, just pointing out that there's different levels of risk.

kazamo

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

In all fairness though, a driver of a 1 to 50 tonnes vehicle is much more likely to cause carnage when distracted on a mobile phone while driving than a cyclist while cycling. A cyclist is much more likely to cause injury to themselves in that scenario. I can only recall one incident over the years where a cyclist was deemed responsible for the death of another road user, whereas on the other hand.........

PS - I'm not excusing it, just pointing out that there's different levels of risk.

Anyone distracted by a screen whether driving or cycling is a risk.
Personally I wouldn't mitigate a risk solely based on the mode of transport and the likely normal disastrous consequences.

For me both groups have one common trait, a complete disregard for others who are sharing the same space. I would prefer not to have a sliding scale for this level of ignorance but that's just me

Carawaystick

munster87 wrote: »

Must be a city thing? What's wrong with cycling on that cycle lane?

It isn't a cycle lane. It does not have road signs RRM 022 or RRM 023

kerry4sam

Can I just ask:

On a recent charity cycle we were all (over 100) cycling two-abreast in convoy. Cars behind got impatient and decided to overtake; probably not realising just how long this convoy of cyclists actually was.

When vehicles drove toward them they'd no-where to go but into the convoy of cyclists. One came in beside me which I saw in time so pulled back to allow space; and they came in alongside me with patience as opposed to others I've seen pull straight in out of sheer panic.

When pulling back out then though to overtake more they never looked in the mirror and a motorbike marshal almost ended up in their boot!

How is it possible to avoid these-type situations?
Should charity cycles limit the number of cyclists in convoy to allow for breaks for vehicles overtaking?

Times the convoy was broken up with this but after a re-group all were back again together so back to square one.

^^^ Not your average sportive, but was a 'special' remembrance cycle so the convoy was a show of unity and support.

Just curious,
Many Thanks,
kerry4sam

seamus

Short answer is that you should avoid travelling in long convoys for a significant period of time.

One notable sportive had every single rider (a few hundred) travelling out of Naas, so arranged a Garda escort and outriders which stopped traffic and escorted the group out of the town.

Once having left the town, the Gardai left us at it and the volunteer outriders rode on to the first food stop. This meant that the convoy naturally broke up with faster riders peeling away and creating gaps. The first food stop was then 15/20 mins later, which further fragmented everything.

Another sportive with the air corps is great craic and has a massive group hitting the road for the last 30 or 40km, it was 50 or 60 riders when I did it. But it's fully escorted by military vehicles and the entire group tips along at around 38km/h average. So it's far from a typical group.

If it's a ride out in rememberance, you're probably best served by arranging to convoy at a specific point in the ride - no more than 5km long - and see if you can sort out Gardai to provide an escort. In reality 15 minutes is about the maximum people will tolerate sitting behind a slow-moving group before they start taking stupid risks. For everyone's safety you're better off limiting your large convoys to small intervals.

cdaly_

kerry4sam wrote: »

Can I just ask:

On a recent charity cycle we were all (over 100) cycling two-abreast in convoy. Cars behind got impatient and decided to overtake; probably not realising just how long this convoy of cyclists actually was.

When vehicles drove toward them they'd no-where to go but into the convoy of cyclists. One came in beside me which I saw in time so pulled back to allow space; and they came in alongside me with patience as opposed to others I've seen pull straight in out of sheer panic.

The right thing to do is to limit groups to around 20 cyclists (and even that is a bit big) with decent gaps in between. That allows for leap-frog style overtaking.

My experience of an overtaking vehicle being caught out went like this.

Around 20 cyclists in a peloton between Kingscourt and Kells. A 12-wheel construction truck started to overtake, took a while to build up speed and then a van came over a hump ahead in the other direction. With all the cyclists to the left, the truck had nowhere to go so both vehicles came to a halt and had to wait for the cyclists to clear before the truck could pull back over to the left.

That was the correct thing to do. We pulled over a bit further up the road and let the truck pass...

Fian

cdaly_ wrote: »

The right thing to do is to limit groups to around 20 cyclists (and even that is a bit big) with decent gaps in between. That allows for leap-frog style overtaking.

My experience of an overtaking vehicle being caught out went like this.

Around 20 cyclists in a peloton between Kingscourt and Kells. A 12-wheel construction truck started to overtake, took a while to build up speed and then a van came over a hump ahead in the other direction. With all the cyclists to the left, the truck had nowhere to go so both vehicles came to a halt and had to wait for the cyclists to clear before the truck could pull back over to the left.

That was the correct thing to do. We pulled over a bit further up the road and let the truck pass...

Lucky for you that the truck driver realised it was the correct thing to do.

The fear is always that some impatient fool will overtake when it is not safe to do so, have an oncoming car come towards them and react instinctively by pulling in to avoid colliding with it, wiping out the cyclist he (and is is almost always a he in his early 20s) was overtaking.

It makes my blood boil when some young lad who thinks he is a "great driver" squeezes past me at speed in a narrow gap or overtakes on a blind bend - because it is not his life he is gambling on the basis of his confidence in his own skills, it is mine. Earlier this year cycling out towards blessington heading up the embankment on the N81, in the part where the road has has the concrete walls on each side some guy overtook me approaching a blind bend, just after the traffic islands if i remember correctly. A young guy with the exhausts that increase the car sounds decided to overtake the car that was overtaking me. Sure enough a car came around the blind bend, but the guy doing the double overtake was going sufficiently quickly that he made it back in before a head on collision, fortunately the oncoming car was doing a much more sensible speed.

It happened here (I was where the wine van is):



Having said that I was just as cocky about my driving in my late teens and early twenties and did equally stupid things. I don't remember endangering any cyclists at the time, but I probably wouldn't have registered it at the time if I had. Fortunately I have never actually been in an accident aside from one low speed fender bender which was entirely my own fault.

Isn't it strange how the subsequent 20 years of experience behind the wheel have reduced my assessment of my own skills as a driver. :rolleyes:

RainyDay

Fian wrote: »

It makes my blood boil when some young lad who thinks he is a "great driver" squeezes past me at speed in a narrow gap or overtakes on a blind bend - because it is not his life he is gambling on the basis of his confidence in his own skills, it is mine. Earlier this year cycling out towards blessington heading up the embankment on the N81, in the part where the road has has the concrete walls on each side some guy overtook me approaching a blind bend, just after the traffic islands if i remember correctly. A young guy with the exhausts that increase the car sounds decided to overtake the car that was overtaking me. Sure enough a car came around the blind bend, but the guy doing the double overtake was going sufficiently quickly that he made it back in before a head on collision, fortunately the oncoming car was doing a much more sensible speed.

A cyclist was killed in New Zealand a year or two back when an overtaking car cut in to avoid an oncoming car.

cdaly_ wrote: »

The right thing to do is to limit groups to around 20 cyclists (and even that is a bit big) with decent gaps in between. That allows for leap-frog style overtaking

Can I expect groups of cars in heavy urban traffic to limit their group size and spread themselves out to make it convenient for me to over- or undertake them so they don't slow me down?

roverrules

Muahahaha wrote: »

Something similar happened me last year except it was a child in a car park who cycled behind me just as I was about to begin reversing. Thank god I gave the rear view mirror a second glance before hitting the accelerator otherwise I was knocking the child down for certain. That close call gave me a right fright so since then I always reverse into car park spaces no matter where I am. Being able to leave where ever you are facing frontwards seems the safest option to me, even if it is tricky to reverse into to begin with.

But if you reverse in you still have the problem of putting a meter of bonnet out before you can see clearly left and right, less than the 2 or 3 metres but still, fundementaly, the same problem

roverrules

Qualitymark wrote: »

With the congestion in Dublin now, we should bring back the law that a motor car has to be preceded by a man walking along with a red flag. (Of course, nowadays it would be a man or a woman; it would be a boon to the unemployment figures.)

That plan to pedestrianise Dublin city centre seems to have gone a bit quiet. Is it still on the cards?

Missed opportunity there, maybe a cyclist with a red flag or, God forbid, red high viz!

cdaly_

RainyDay wrote: »

Can I expect groups of cars in heavy urban traffic to limit their group size and spread themselves out to make it convenient for me to over- or undertake them so they don't slow me down?

Nope. But you can happily filter by them without endangering anybody...

Tenzor07

I notice a massive increase in the amount of big jeep style 4x4 family cars around, like this one, who used her Audi Q7 jeep as a weapon:

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/mother-driving-at-least-four-children-in-4x4-rammed-cyclist-and-smashed-into-salon-in-road-rage-row-a3083701.html

JBokeh

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

In all fairness though, a driver of a 1 to 50 tonnes vehicle is much more likely to cause carnage when distracted on a mobile phone while driving than a cyclist while cycling. A cyclist is much more likely to cause injury to themselves in that scenario. I can only recall one incident over the years where a cyclist was deemed responsible for the death of another road user, whereas on the other hand.........

PS - I'm not excusing it, just pointing out that there's different levels of risk.

A few years ago I was riding along when my phone rang, answered it with my right hand on my left ear, then decided to shift gears on the RHS shifter with my left hand, and steered myself straight into a dyke :pac: I got a few pretty bad cuts, but it is funny looking back on it

I've never answered the phone to 02 customer service since!

Everyone is too dependant on the phone nowadays, the only time someone won't answer is if they're sleeping

Qualitymark

Tenzor07 wrote: »

I notice a massive increase in the amount of big jeep style 4x4 family cars around, like this one, who used her Audi Q7 jeep as a weapon:

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/mother-driving-at-least-four-children-in-4x4-rammed-cyclist-and-smashed-into-salon-in-road-rage-row-a3083701.html

Awful pity that judge couldn't sentence her to get rid of her car and bring her children cycling on the road to school every day.

eeeee

Tenzor07 wrote: »

I notice a massive increase in the amount of big jeep style 4x4 family cars around, like this one, who used her Audi Q7 jeep as a weapon:

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/mother-driving-at-least-four-children-in-4x4-rammed-cyclist-and-smashed-into-salon-in-road-rage-row-a3083701.html

If it was a knife and not a car she would have gone to jail. The language is indicative of the attitude to cyclists and motorists: "Natalie Pyne, 31, was driving at least four children in her three-litre Audi Q7 when she cut up Simon Edgely, causing him to bump into the rear of the vehicle, the jury was told" :rolleyes:

I'd love to see how the author would describe the situation had he been cut up and caused to 'bump' into the back of a car:rolleyes: