The LEFT and Irish Farming

Dickie10

often wondered why the socialist party and other leftist groups never championed the cause of the rural poor and small farmers in ireland. the socialist party were the only political party absent from the ploughing championships, what message did that send out?

these people waiting for the revolution would do well to remember that most of the revolutions and reforms of ireland had their roots in rural ireland and the small farming community, im thinking of the 1798 rebellion, the land league and agrarian reforms of the wyndham act 1909 and earlier acts that moved land ownership from huge 100,000 acre estates to the birth of family farms. surely these movements must have seemed like a leftist revolution to the landlords of the day! just a thought.....

The various reforms you mention created a countryside populated by land owners (aka capitalists) - they suddenly had something to lose if another revolution came.

They were far more likely to rebel when they had nothing to lose.

Edit: I'm not sure what more someone like the AAA could offer on top of various subsidies, grants and tax reliefs already available - and I don't see how various wealth taxes and the ending of subsidies to business policies could be squared off with the above.

Dickie10

yes thats true alright you had a big cohort of labouring poor, i wonder how many of the middle class catholic landowners supported nationalism? brings to thinking of a section of irish population in the south who were catholic unionists, it was common enough in cities such as dublin and cork and the south east

visatorro

if the left got in we'd be in some ****e. I guarantee we would be landed with a land charge to pay for new houses for the like of the little bastards that were stoning emergency services the other night. talk about an absolute shower of bastards, have heard nothing good from anyone of them. they go on like they are robin hood.

patsy_mccabe

Hell No, We Won't Pay, We Won't Pay Cause You Must Pay !!!!!

pedigree 6

I'm a small farmer.
I want 160 acres, 20 cows, a plough, a mule and build me a house.
Where do I sign and I can get the pike out of the attic as well.:pac:

Nekarsulm

Along with SF, they are unable (or unwilling) to differentiate between income and the asset value required to earn the income.
So you get the usual "let's tax the rich" rallying call, aimed firmly at their traditional voter areas.
Going by their standards, a Labour voter worker in an factory should be taxed not only on earned income, but also pay a rate based on the market value of the actual factory building, land and machinery used to earn that said income.
Don't see that idea getting much support at the ballot box, somehow.

mahoney_j

visatorro wrote: »

if the left got in we'd be in some ****e. I guarantee we would be landed with a land charge to pay for new houses for the like of the little bastards that were stoning emergency services the other night. talk about an absolute shower of bastards, have heard nothing good from anyone of them. they go on like they are robin hood.

+100000

epfff

visatorro wrote: »

if the left got in we'd be in some ****e. I guarantee we would be landed with a land charge to pay for new houses for the like of the little bastards that were stoning emergency services the other night. talk about an absolute shower of bastards, have heard nothing good from anyone of them. they go on like they are robin hood.

+1000000

pedigree 6

If there's two things that shouldn't be discussed on F&F boards it's religion and politics.
You'd never know there was an election coming up. Ha.:D:D:D:cool:

boggerman1

Couldn't u imagine Ruth coppinger as minister for agriculture.first up nationalizing farms no doubt,like her idea for dell

farmerjj

pedigree 6 wrote: »

If there's two things that shouldn't be discussed on F&F boards it's religion and politics.
You'd never know there was an election coming up. Ha.:D:D:D:cool:

How true, politics should be banned from f and f, save three months of nonsense.

frazzledhome

farmerjj wrote: »

How true, politics should be banned from f and f, save three months of nonsense.

Actually very true

Dickie10

ha i thorughly agree the looney left! was just something i thought of a few times, although id say Labour are more centre than left now, i used to be a ff voter but i voted fg last time because i knew ff were not getting in. im happy with fg in relation to agri and young farmers i have to say. i went into the labour tent at the ploughing and got talking to lorraine higgins i asked her about ruari quinns idea of taking farm assets into account for third level grants. she told me there wasnt a hope of this ever happening and that most of the Labour politicains were delighted to see the back of ruari quinn. she said that they are trying to move away from a predominantly urban party and back to rural affairs. dunno how much id believe her but i couldnt belive when she said that ruari quinn was a crackpot! her words....

mf240

Socialism is fine untill you run out of other peoples money.


Humans are the only species on the planet where the less inteligent and sucessfull, are helped rear their offspring by the more sucessfull members.

mahoney_j

mf240 wrote: »

Socialism is fine untill you run out of other peoples money.


Humans are the only species on the planet where the less inteligent and sucessfull, are helped rear their offspring by the more sucessfull members.

Lol u should post that in the Irish water mega thread !!!!!!

boggerman1

Dickie10 wrote: »

ha i thorughly agree the looney left! was just something i thought of a few times, although id say Labour are more centre than left now, i used to be a ff voter but i voted fg last time because i knew ff were not getting in. im happy with fg in relation to agri and young farmers i have to say. i went into the labour tent at the ploughing and got talking to lorraine higgins i asked her about ruari quinns idea of taking farm assets into account for third level grants. she told me there wasnt a hope of this ever happening and that most of the Labour politicains were delighted to see the back of ruari quinn. she said that they are trying to move away from a predominantly urban party and back to rural affairs. dunno how much id believe her but i couldnt belive when she said that ruari quinn was a crackpot! her words....

You could see how disappointed he was and his advisor john Walsh was too when Quinn got dropped from cabinet.walsh wrote about it numerous times in the papers since.

kowtow

I thought that now Fine Gael allowed a reasonable amount of cocaine or marijuana for personal use, there was no longer a reason for voting for the left?

bogman_bass

During my student days I asked a member of the socialist workers party about their agricultural policy. He started going on about "peasant farmers" I, of course just wound him up more. I had a right giggle that day

Buford T. Justice XIX

Dickie10 wrote: »

ha i thorughly agree the looney left! was just something i thought of a few times, although id say Labour are more centre than left now, i used to be a ff voter but i voted fg last time because i knew ff were not getting in. im happy with fg in relation to agri and young farmers i have to say. i went into the labour tent at the ploughing and got talking to lorraine higgins i asked her about ruari quinns idea of taking farm assets into account for third level grants. she told me there wasnt a hope of this ever happening and that most of the Labour politicains were delighted to see the back of ruari quinn. she said that they are trying to move away from a predominantly urban party and back to rural affairs. dunno how much id believe her but i couldnt belive when she said that ruari quinn was a crackpot! her words....

There was always a big vote for Labour in rural constituencies and a lot of labour TDs from farming backgrounds, Willie Penrose and Michael D being just 2 that spring to mind. There was little separation in the principles that bound both rural and urban TDs.

The changing point, imo, was the take over of Labour by Democratic Left while much of traditional labour principles were abandoned and DL supporters like Quinn were favoured for his kite flying of issues like asset assessment for uni grants to please his smoked salmon fellow travellers.

I'm looking forward to the canvassing when Labour come around. I will be having one or two choice words with them.

ganmo

I wonder what would happen if this thread was moved to the politics cafe forum

Kovu

ganmo wrote: »

I wonder what would happen if this thread was moved to the politics cafe forum

It would get a round of applause from me as it would be out of my jurisdiction

CloughCasey1

mahoney_j wrote: »

Lol u should post that in the Irish water mega thread !!!!!!

Hahaha. signs up outside council estates saying "we have already paid for our water from our taxes".....that should really say "we have already paid for our water from other people's taxes"!!

CloughCasey1

Anyway talk is cheap before you win the majority and have to lead the dail. Once in they soon realise that they can change feck all and won't have the cahonays to make the changes and damage their reputations! Sure wouldn't the last two govermments probably have burnt the bond holders and devalued the punt to try and ride the crest of the wave if there was no Euro and if Europe didn't have them by the nut sack! They won't be long going from the left to smack bang in the centre where all governments seem to end up.

Dickie10

i dont know whether im fianna fail or fine gael they both seem to be fairly same to me , personally i wouldnt like anyone else leading a government

west79

Dickie10 wrote: »

i dont know whether im fianna fail or fine gael they both seem to be fairly same to me , personally i wouldnt like anyone else leading a government

When Fianna Fáil is mentioned in an agriculture thread don't forget Mary Coughlan

ganmo

west79 wrote: »

When Fianna Fáil is mentioned in an agriculture thread don't forget Mary Coughlan

"I asked if she knew the difference between liquid milk and creamery milk," said Michael Dunican. "She asked me if I thought she didn't know. I said back to her that if she knew it then she could explain it. Then she replied, 'Would you ever **** off'."

http://politico.ie/archive/not-just-mary

a real gem she was

frazzledhome

ganmo wrote: »

http://politico.ie/archive/not-just-mary

a real gem she was

Sweary Mary

White Clover

frazzledhome wrote: »

Sweary Mary

Completely out of her depth. Very incompetent

barnaman

Fianna Fail and others were in there day almost communist when it came to farming and farmers look at the Land Commission.It gave land and a land commission cottage to 10,000s of farm labourers. It destroyed alot of good farms and lots of Ireland in particular the West are almost unfarmable now through the fragmented, scattered and unviable farms that it created out of good farms. And it was not all big estates either that were targeted by the Land Commission any farm of a couple hundred acres was fair game to the Land commission back in the day and back in the day was up to the 1960s although last grants were in the 1980s. Farming in Ireland today is strongly the result of Socialism.

patsy_mccabe

Yes, but look at the way things are in the UK now. It's basically a continuation of the old system , with huge farms owned by absentee landlords who never farmed in their lives. Huge amount of land farmed by tenant agreements. At least in Ireland we own our own land. I don't think too many will complain about that here.
Apart from fragmentation, I wouldn't say that the land is farmed inefficiently. I do think we do rely too heavily on milk and beef, but a that's down to land type and climate, I guess.