Is there money in triathlon industry?

iAcesHigh

Was wondering about this and would really like to hear your thinking on the subject (I'll learn a lot for sure). Don't get me wrong, I'm not into doing any of this for money, but it's more of a "getting to know this world a bit more" thing...
So, is there money to be made in this industry and if yes where do you actually have a best shot? From my point of view there are several "players" and each has it's share of, let's call it, total prizepool...

1. Triathletes: I would imagine this is side that earns the least amounts. Of course, there are few athletes throughout the world who earn serious money from the race prizepools. On the other hand, while I would imagine that most of the PROs earn decent cash from the races itself while they're "in the game" (probably for normal living, not really for having too much "extra"), but they are actually earning most from their sponsors. Would that be fair estimate? Also, triathletes have to spend decent amounts on those under no. 3 + equipment so that's another "burden" they have to take in...
2. Race organizers: while I know fair amount of triathletes (and a few that actually earn some money out of the sport, compared to most of us) I don't really know any race organizers so I did a bit of googling and I can't really get a feel how much they might earn from an average, decently organized race. I reckon they are on the plus side, but if you want to put a decent race would you expect to earn some decent cash or can this be considered as a hobby that gets you some side cash? Outside of big organizations that earn their money by creating massive events like Ironman and Challenge can an average Joe (extra motivated and hard worker) live out of organizing few events throughout the year, for example having 3-5-7 races in his "series"?
3. "Side help": I would think that "side help" actually has the most constant, and decent value out of this sport we all love. Under "side help" I'm thinking about coaches, physios and nutrition "gurus" who are offering various services to athletes. I think that their position is actually really good. On one hand they provide service which athletes need so they get money for that AND on the other hand they are automatically getting free marketing because who won't thank to his coach or physio when they win/do something worth mentioning. They can also use their skills to help/give service to athletes in several similar fields, like runners, cycles etc. (actually, coaches might be excluded here, but others shouldn't have problem dealing with athletes from similar sports).
4. Companies surrounding the sport: they are obviously getting money from selling their products and some of them spend some cash on sponsorship deals with certain athletes. I can see that we have few tri-stores and similar things here are there, but I can't figure out can they really make a nice living out of it. With so much tri-stuff being bought online can a local tri-shop really survive only from triathletes? Would it make sense to start one at this stage?
5. Clubs: last but not the least! Since I've actually never been a part of tri-club I can't know for sure, but if it's remotely similar to sports I've been a member of a club I would think that MAYBE one person from a decently big club (not talking about international ones here) can make a living from this, but I suspect they're actually doing a bunch of the things I mentioned above - so coaching, organizing smaller races, selling equipment on the fly etc. Is this something that is even plausible in triathlon world or not even one person per club can really make a living out of it?

I know, this is a lot of gibberish, but it's been on my mind for a bit now so who can I share/talk about it other then fellow triathletes

mossym

1) Most of the pros don't make decent money. a few make a decent amount, a lot barely make enough if even that. I've said before i think too many go pro too easily, PK has correctly pointed out that there are advantages outside prize money to being pro, but i still think there is more pro's than the prize money can support

2) Big races maybe, local races not so much.

3) again the big full time guys yes, enough to make a living full time from it. not enough to be really rich. the part timers, especially at local level, not a hope, they do it for the love. know a few of them, and they're not riding the best of bikes bought on the huge excesses of cash they make believe me

4) for sure. tri seems to commanda nice premium which i only see affecting margin dollars

5) not in ireland at least. all non profit that i know of anyway. all volunteered, everything goes back into the club

tunney

mossym wrote: »

1) Most of the pros don't make decent money. a few make a decent amount, a lot barely make enough if even that. I've said before i think too many go pro too easily, PK has correctly pointed out that there are advantages outside prize money to being pro, but i still think there is more pro's than the prize money can support

2) Big races maybe, local races not so much.

3) again the big full time guys yes, enough to make a living full time from it. not enough to be really rich. the part timers, especially at local level, not a hope, they do it for the love. know a few of them, and they're not riding the best of bikes bought on the huge excesses of cash they make believe me

4) for sure. tri seems to commanda nice premium which i only see affecting margin dollars

5) not in ireland at least. all non profit that i know of anyway. all volunteered, everything goes back into the club

Wow. Someone from your neck of the woods thinks all clubs are non profit......

mossym

tunney wrote: »

Wow. Someone from your neck of the woods thinks all clubs are non profit......

good point.

i wasn't thinking of the group coached schemes, which are definitely for profit. by club i meant the more traditional become a member, learn from the more experienced, give something back as you learn more.

but some full on businesses are "clubs" so there is a way to run them for profit.

sconhome

Well I can answer Nr 4 for you - its a categorical "No"

Triathlon is far too seasonal to hang your coat on one peg. March to September if you are lucky and at that it is proportional. How many times do you change your bike, your wetsuit, your non consumable gear? 4 / 5 years on average I would say. Tech maybe every 2 years but that is always going to be online discount driven.

How many on here, buy their tyres, tubes, CO2, gels etc from local stores? A small percentage simply because it is easier to buy online and once online for those things it is always price driven and so easy to compare 3 / 4 / 20 online prices for the best deal. A local store can't compete (A) with the volume discounts or (B) a non highstreet cost of overheads.

You see it with the global triathlon companies the brands they are 6 months Northern hemisphere and then 6 months Southern focussed with their sales. Local can't cope with the overhead to stock for both markets (even if online) so only the big online presences will host Tri all year round which increasingly puts the local at a disadvantage.

The local guy / girl has to rely on their expertise and knowledge to act as the draw for their customers and hope that the customer sees that it is not a premium that is being paid but the actual RRP of the product + the customer service.

*mini-rant* The amount of people who see something online like €210 NOW €150 and think the price is €150 but the local store at €195 is charging a premium is staggering. */ mini-rant*

mossym

mossym wrote: »

4) for sure. tri seems to command a nice premium which i only see affecting margin dollars

need to clarify this one too, given AKW's post (shouldn't post late at night after travelling all day, brain doesn't work, the nice premium seems to be for the manufacturers, not the resellers.

sconhome

mossym wrote: »

need to clarify this one too, given AKW's post (shouldn't post late at night after travelling all day, brain doesn't work, the nice premium seems to be for the manufacturers, not the resellers.

To further clarify I think the point you are making is one we've chatted about offline previously (likely to shot myself in the foot here) in that triathlon and triathletes in general are happy to spend money based on desires rather than actual need.

You only have to look at products (I think there was a thread recently) which 'have' to be had.

Eg the 920xt came out and the number of people who had to sell their perfectly good 910 to buy the 920. How many use the extra features or know what they are (?)

Footwear - there are triathlon brands of footwear that 'real' runners would not be caught dead in. Its not that they are at a premium but they are at more of a chance of being sold in the triathlon market.

So it is not that there is a premium more that goods are likely to be sold at full price rather than seeking out old models at a discount (generally there are no old models as the brands are continually evolving product) so in a roundabout way the margins are sustained for longer than the equivalent in other markets where it often can be seen as 'buying' turnover at a low margin.

tunney

AKW wrote: »

Eg the 920xt came out and the number of people who had to sell their perfectly good 910 to buy the 920. How many use the extra features or know what they are (?)

20 years ago. Fast lads get HR. Few years later everyone gets one, no one knows how to use the basics.
15 years ago. Fast lads get power meters. Now everyone gets one, no one knows how to use one. No one even sees the issue with single sided measurement.
10 years go. Fast lads get coaches. Now everyone has one. Most don't recognise that they programs are probably the same as everyone else the coach works with. (obviously not all coaches pack them high and pump them out but lots more do than people think)

Its like a 15 year old uber-nerdy spotty lad getting a night with Jenna Jameson (before she got fat), no idea what they are doing and a complete waste.

rainbow kirby

mossym wrote: »

1) Most of the pros don't make decent money. a few make a decent amount, a lot barely make enough if even that. I've said before i think too many go pro too easily, PK has correctly pointed out that there are advantages outside prize money to being pro, but i still think there is more pro's than the prize money can support

The coach who takes the Friday session that I do every now and then is an Xterra pro, so even less money involved. She does most of her racing in Asia and Australia, and makes more money from doing movie stunts in the UK during our summer than she does from triathlon.

iAcesHigh

@AKW - would agree with the fact that most of the triathletes (including myself sometimes, although I'm fighting hard against it, wifeys orders ) just buy what they wish to have, not what they need - kind off like with food where our eyes tend to by products, not our "stomach" or brain...

tunney wrote: »

20 years ago. Fast lads get HR. Few years later everyone gets one, no one knows how to use the basics.
15 years ago. Fast lads get power meters. Now everyone gets one, no one knows how to use one. No one even sees the issue with single sided measurement.
10 years go. Fast lads get coaches. Now everyone has one. Most don't recognise that they programs are probably the same as everyone else the coach works with.

Its like a 15 year old uber-nerdy spotty lad getting a night with Jenna Jameson (before she got fat), no idea what they are doing and a complete waste.

spot on, just not sure if I would agree with no. of years since I think most of recreationals still don't have power meter these days... But yeah, I met a decent number of people in the last 2 years or so who have triathlon/running coach and after we talk a bit about it, it ends up they're paying something like €150 for training plan that one could download from training peaks or similar site for €50 ...

peter kern

the tourism industry is a beneficiary of triathlon ,especially austria and spain are very procatcive in enticing triathletes to race and train there towns like alcudia and calella are perfect examples how a smart tourism department increases a tourist season with races at the beginning and the end of the season.


i think to answer overall . yes there is money to be made like everywhere if you are smart about it or play dirty tricks like volkswagen the german bank etc and get not caught ...)

for many in the industry its prob more something they like to do as they have a passion for it and trade income for job satisfatcion,rather than working for a bank.( and i amn sure some people like to work in a bank ;-)


companies like cervelo built the foundation of their success in tri
at the same time many many many fail as it is a small market and money is like everywhere really only made in mass production.
coincidentally cervelo almost went bankrupt when they broke into the bike market and had to sell to anohter company ( i guess very few people really know that cervelo is owned by a dutch company)

at the same time if you stay just in the tri maketet like quintana roo i guess you are struggeling to survive.

Ironman at some stage was almost bankrupt. so I guess that showes its not that easy
and for IMG which is one of the biggest event organicer worldwide triathlon it seems it wasnt profitable enough
( it was once the biggest licensse of ironman races and i guess could have bought ironman 10 or so years ago had they wished to do so.

thinking aobut it the tri industry seems to be a good industry for bigger companies to buy companies that struggle with cash flow. ( and i guess the same will be for challenge who unless they find an investor wont prob be around in 10 years time since ironman buys all the races that make profit or it thinks they can make profit with )

becasue its such a fad driven sport success and loss are very close for instance newton they became very quickly big but only a few weeks ago let go quite a few people since the gualble "fadatheltes" have now moved to the next company and in a few years time will surely move to another one. so it can be a good stepping stone but i guess if you dont mange to grow out of the tri niche its not easy most of the time.


akw do you think you overestimate the advantage of the big sellers given that the tri market of the southeren hemisphere is about the same as france ?

iAcesHigh wrote: »

Was wondering about this and would really like to hear your thinking on the subject (I'll learn a lot for sure). Don't get me wrong, I'm not into doing any of this for money, but it's more of a "getting to know this world a bit more" thing...
So, is there money to be made in this industry and if yes where do you actually have a best shot? From my point of view there are several "players" and each has it's share of, let's call it, total prizepool...

1. Triathletes: I would imagine this is side that earns the least amounts. Of course, there are few athletes throughout the world who earn serious money from the race prizepools. On the other hand, while I would imagine that most of the PROs earn decent cash from the races itself while they're "in the game" (probably for normal living, not really for having too much "extra"), but they are actually earning most from their sponsors. Would that be fair estimate? Also, triathletes have to spend decent amounts on those under no. 3 + equipment so that's another "burden" they have to take in...
2. Race organizers: while I know fair amount of triathletes (and a few that actually earn some money out of the sport, compared to most of us) I don't really know any race organizers so I did a bit of googling and I can't really get a feel how much they might earn from an average, decently organized race. I reckon they are on the plus side, but if you want to put a decent race would you expect to earn some decent cash or can this be considered as a hobby that gets you some side cash? Outside of big organizations that earn their money by creating massive events like Ironman and Challenge can an average Joe (extra motivated and hard worker) live out of organizing few events throughout the year, for example having 3-5-7 races in his "series"?
3. "Side help": I would think that "side help" actually has the most constant, and decent value out of this sport we all love. Under "side help" I'm thinking about coaches, physios and nutrition "gurus" who are offering various services to athletes. I think that their position is actually really good. On one hand they provide service which athletes need so they get money for that AND on the other hand they are automatically getting free marketing because who won't thank to his coach or physio when they win/do something worth mentioning. They can also use their skills to help/give service to athletes in several similar fields, like runners, cycles etc. (actually, coaches might be excluded here, but others shouldn't have problem dealing with athletes from similar sports).
4. Companies surrounding the sport: they are obviously getting money from selling their products and some of them spend some cash on sponsorship deals with certain athletes. I can see that we have few tri-stores and similar things here are there, but I can't figure out can they really make a nice living out of it. With so much tri-stuff being bought online can a local tri-shop really survive only from triathletes? Would it make sense to start one at this stage?
5. Clubs: last but not the least! Since I've actually never been a part of tri-club I can't know for sure, but if it's remotely similar to sports I've been a member of a club I would think that MAYBE one person from a decently big club (not talking about international ones here) can make a living from this, but I suspect they're actually doing a bunch of the things I mentioned above - so coaching, organizing smaller races, selling equipment on the fly etc. Is this something that is even plausible in triathlon world or not even one person per club can really make a living out of it?

I know, this is a lot of gibberish, but it's been on my mind for a bit now so who can I share/talk about it other then fellow triathletes

sconhome

Great points Peter.

On the one you asked, it is more that there is scope for the global brands on an reasonable annual timeline rather than purely 6 months or so for North. They may extend their season by 2 months either side so for arguments sake they have 10 months rather than 6.

The point I'm making is on a purely triathlon focused market it would be hard to survive which is why there is such a cross over push in the off season for mountain biking, trail running etc which while they attract triathletes they are not exclusively triathlon market.

(Obviously my observations and contributions are based in general on a small portion of the small Irish market)

peter kern

i dodnt disagree with you what i try to say is that i guess their real advantage is buying power and lower rent vs a brick and mortar store . i think the southern hemisphere market is more pocket money for them.( but of course 5% or whatever of their yearly turnover is better than nothing )
and you are right at best the tri industry contributes max 5% to the tourism turnover at any place ( apart from north west lanzarotte) and is only an add on.

AKW wrote: »

Great points Peter.

On the one you asked, it is more that there is scope for the global brands on an reasonable annual timeline rather than purely 6 months or so for North. They may extend their season by 2 months either side so for arguments sake they have 10 months rather than 6.

The point I'm making is on a purely triathlon focused market it would be hard to survive which is why there is such a cross over push in the off season for mountain biking, trail running etc which while they attract triathletes they are not exclusively triathlon market.

(Obviously my observations and contributions are based in general on a small portion of the small Irish market)

bryangiggsy

Chain reaction must be killing every small retailer in Ireland. I read somewhere they had 80 million in sales last year and employ a couple of hundred people.

peter kern

bryangiggsy wrote: »

Chain reaction must be killing every small retailer in Ireland. I read somewhere they had 80 million in sales last year and employ a couple of hundred people.

i dodnt think its so much a question of small or big its more like can you adapt to the new challenge that internet shopping poses to brick and mortar. ( and tesco vs amazon would be as much worried aobut this than a small sport retailer)
i do not think that the good specialized brick and mortars will ever die there will always be people that want to go to a "tri" shop ( often those people that enter the ironman branded races as they want the "feel special factor" and ironman seems to do ok right now)

i think the real problem is not the online retailer the problem are the people that go to a shop for the advice and then buy online and then shops are not really willing to give good advice

my 2 cents.

MD1983

bryangiggsy wrote: »

Chain reaction must be killing every small retailer in Ireland. I read somewhere they had 80 million in sales last year and employ a couple of hundred people.

not likely to have 80m of sales in ireland - was it not 180m of sales worldwide, Ireland would be a tiny amount of that i would have thought.

sconhome

MD1983 wrote: »

not likely to have 80m of sales in ireland - was it not 180m of sales worldwide, Ireland would be a tiny amount of that i would have thought.

That would be a global figure alright. Big hit to revenue when they were blocked from Oz.

Often wondered how people fall for the over inflation of RRP with 'massive' discounts.