Retrospective game ban for diving and other offences

Idbatterim

Just came across the below and thought I would take a read. Should their be retrospective game bans for players found guilty of this and possibly other offences. If the argument is not to slow the game up with video technology? I mean enough of a ban that any big advantage gained from it in a particular game (like a dive leading to a penalty or getting another player falsely sent off), could be potentially undone by harsh bans, like 5-10 games for major offences, like a Henry handball incident for example.

http://www.msn.com/en-ie/sport/premier-league/if-hes-a-manchester-united-player-im-a-chinaman-keane-slams-young/ar-BBmQWdc?li=AAdf4rm&ocid=mailsignoutmd

Rayne Wooney

Heaven forbid

An El Classico not being a 90 minute cheat-fest is unimaginable

Mr.H

Been saying it for years. Brilliant idea. If it is implemented properly it will be crazy at the start with loads of players being banned but eventually players and teams will realise its not worth cheating.

Idbatterim

Been saying it for years. Brilliant idea. If it is implemented properly it will be crazy at the start with loads of players being banned but eventually players and teams will realise its not worth cheating.

I agree. Thats what I meant when I said serious bans, forget some slap on the wrist, where committing the cheat was more than worth it, have it that the punishment will be worse than the offence... Now you may not be able to achieve that all the time, no system is water tight. But its a pity I cant be arsed watching football anymore and the same with a lot of my mates, due to the sham it has become... Some teams and players are a lot worse than other recently. Also if a player is taking the p*ss, the club arent going to be happy paying wages when he is banned for matches, it would also get them to start putting pressure on players to end the cheating...

Idbatterim

Also with Lewandoski for Poland against us, that disgrace would think twice if he was going to be out for a few Poland matches, they were also a disgrace against us in dublin... I still watch the republic play, but have lost all interest in the rest of it pretty much, just a corrupt, circus of a game for the most part with better acting than some of the stuff that comes out of hollywood...

then seeding the third places teams for the recent euro 2016 play offs. Why not give the higher ranked teams more of an advantage, allow them to play both games at home too :rolleyes:

efb

When is it a dive?? How much contact is required??

Idbatterim

When is it a dive?? How much contact is required??

ok I am talking about the blatant dives primarily, the ones where it is obvious to anyone. For more grey cases, maybe have panel of 3 and go with a majority verdict, maybe giving benefit of the doubt to player, depending on his record and reputation if good...

for an example that BS Lewandowki was pulling against us, I dont think any of the faking led to a goal, but Id still ban... Its a total joke, if the referees are being conned or simply blowing because of a players rep, it is not on...

I wouldn't be as annoyed if it were once or twice in a match, but every few minutes is just infuriating...

TheDoc

Where does the line get drawn though?

Damien Duff was the first player I became properly aware of regarding diving. And I'd never really seen or understood it before watching him both live and on TV. But Duff never orchestrated a foul in terms of moving his leg into someone etc., but he was a master of drawing a foul and going down too easy. But he always got the fouls. I consider him a diver, and the perfect counter to the "myth" that it all came about from foreigners.

I'd say gauging by the potential responses I'll get to the above, most people probably weren't even aware of how much he dived.

Neymar is very similar from what I see now. Doesn't orchestrate a foul by putting his leg into a defender, but just hits the deck when he feels contact.

I think extravagent diving and rolling and simulation has come about, in the Premier league anyway, from the petty overzealous nature of referees. There is about 30 examples a weekend of fouls that arn't fouls, yellow cards that arn't yellow cards etc. Until the game as a whole remembers its a physical game, and build back into it the proper physicality of the game, I don't see how you can tackle simulation and diving.

Like how many times a week do you see a player getting booked for what a referee indicates is a series of fouls. I'm open for correction on the rules, but I'm pretty sure there is no such thing as a booking rewarded for a series of fouls. Shoulder to shoulder tackles, where to players come together. They are just gone, its whoever goes flying off holding rolling on the ground best gets the free kick. Raise your arm anywhere and all of a sudden some dope is on the ground holding their face, checking 20 times to see if blood is coming out of their nose.

It's absolutely incredible what can get you booked now. And it seems to have crept in everywhere. Even see it during the weekly LOI games I watch on telly.

As a premier league fan, it wont be long before serious giggles will be made when someone refers to the leagues "physicality". Defender's dont seem to be allowed challenge strikers anymore for aerial duels.

Paz-CCFC

It should either be retrospective for all offences or none. I don't see why diving is seen as worse than cynical fouling. They're both against the rules and generally yellow card offences, yet one is seen as cheating and the other as "smart play". If you stop, eg, a counter attack by fouling the opposition and get away with it, then I think it's as bad as diving and winning a free.

Also, as we're in the general area of playing offences, why is fouling to prevent a clear-scoring opportunity a red card, but fouling to create one (eg, handling it in the opposition box) only a yellow? They're both essentially the same thing, except at the other end of the pitch. Since they have the same effect (one goal scored v conceded), they should have the same punishment.

TheDoc

Idbatterim wrote: »

Just came across the below and thought I would take a read. Should their be retrospective game bans for players found guilty of this and possibly other offences. If the argument is not to slow the game up with video technology? I mean enough of a ban that any big advantage gained from it in a particular game (like a dive leading to a penalty or getting another player falsely sent off), could be potentially undone by harsh bans, like 5-10 games for major offences, like a Henry handball incident for example.

http://www.msn.com/en-ie/sport/premier-league/if-hes-a-manchester-united-player-im-a-chinaman-keane-slams-young/ar-BBmQWdc?li=AAdf4rm&ocid=mailsignoutmd

Just to quote you directly. It appears to me you might be a bit butt hurt over what you perceive as Ireland getting ****ed over by cheating.

Henry getting banned for 5-10 games for a handball? Are you actually serious?

Lewandowski played O'Shea, a poor defender, for a fool and he kept walking into the trap.

Maybe our players should be a little cuter and a little smarter.

The laughable thing is that there is definitely going to be a time where one of our players does something embarrassing to win a big game, and I wonder will the FAI be as quick to do the honorable thing like they asked FIFA and France to do. Not ****ing likely I'd imagine

dfx-

Retrospective action is what football needs. It would be the most important addition to the lawbook in decades and hopefully act as another front to delay video technology being introduced.

Idbatterim

Henry getting banned for 5-10 games for a handball? Are you actually serious?

given the gravity of the match and just how ridiculous the cheating was, yes... Like I said, let the punishment fit the crime... People may say, you wouldn't say that if it were an Irish player and we were the ones benefiting. I have never seen an Irish player come even close to that, I dont think I have seen much or anything close to it full stop...

It would be the most important addition to the lawbook in decades and hopefully act as another front to delay video technology being introduced.

I dont even buy their, it would hold up the game line, of course it would to an extent, but when there is a major decisions, that is being argued with, how long in gods name does that take to settle on the pitch and even then, the wrong decision may have been made. This notion that the opposition players who feel like they have been shafted simply accept it, is laughable...

Just to quote you directly. It appears to me you might be a bit butt hurt over what you perceive as Ireland getting ****ed over by cheating.

these are just some blatant incidents. I wouldnt recall similar for club football as I dont really follow it and honestly even when I was, cant remember seeing anything like the Henry handball. I do remember that gurrier Suarez and his biting incidents etc where he pled innocence...

I am looking on youtube now. But from what I recollect, he handled it at least twice, once to stop it running out and once to throw it into the path of the incoming French player. So let me get this straight, that insane level of cheating is ok, but banning him for several matches isnt? No wonder they try it, you would be an idiot not too...

wonga77

It would be very hard to draw the line but at the very least it would be worth it if they got rid of the blatent and obvious cheating that goes on regularly. Im not talking about players cute enough to draw a foul like Duff mentioned above, but proper all out dives with zero contact, especially those in the penalty area which are the gamechangers. If it even made one or two players think twice about cheating then it would be worth it imo

efb

https://www.facebook.com/boylesports/videos/10153719543087277/

Keano doesn't hold back

sky88

TheDoc wrote: »

Just to quote you directly. It appears to me you might be a bit butt hurt over what you perceive as Ireland getting ****ed over by cheating.

Henry getting banned for 5-10 games for a handball? Are you actually serious?

Lewandowski played O'Shea, a poor defender, for a fool and he kept walking into the trap.

Maybe our players should be a little cuter and a little smarter.

The laughable thing is that there is definitely going to be a time where one of our players does something embarrassing to win a big game, and I wonder will the FAI be as quick to do the honorable thing like they asked FIFA and France to do. Not ****ing likely I'd imagine

ive always thought that if it was robbie keane did the handball he and the Fai would have handled the situation the same as henry and the french fa would have.

The fans too would have been just happy to get to a world cup yes they wouldn't be happy with the way but still wouldn't have kicked up a fuss

LeBash

Diving to me is moving a leg into a tackle. Ashley Young loves that one RVP was the first I saw doing it Robben is another who loves this. Or diving without contact.

Also throwing ones self on the ground after a slight touch is another dive.

I'm finding myself watching less football and more rugby these days. EPL is rotten with diving but still pretty clean compared to Spain but it's quite plain for any of us to see on TV without a reply so it should be 90% the same for a ref. There are regular offenders and they should be punished. There is no way these guys are not practicing being cheats. More than likely under the nose of the manager and surely with the blessing as well.

Mr.H

efb wrote: »

When is it a dive?? How much contact is required??

To be honest I would take a zero tolerance approach to diving.

A dive is a dive regardless of whether you are "going down to show contact was made" or "jumping out of the way to avoid a tackle and falling to the ground"

Its suppose to be a physical game ffs. If the opposing player takes you down they will be dealt with. But if you go down easy or hold your ankle when you have been tripped then that is trying to con the ref.

You should only go to ground when you are put there.

Of course the only way that would work is if penos are given when players dont go to ground. Seems to be that the only way to get a peno is going down. That encourages cheating. Players like Young Robben and Ronaldo blatantly telling the media (in the past) that they have dived and will continue to do so should be obvious punishments.

jaykay74

Mr.H wrote: »

To be honest I would take a zero tolerance approach to diving.

A dive is a dive regardless of whether you are "going down to show contact was made" or "jumping out of the way to avoid a tackle and falling to the ground"

So you hurdle a tackle and lose your footing and you get carded for it

jack presley

It always makes me laugh that FIFA promote fair play before the games with the charade of having everyone shake hands but once the whistle goes, cheating is for the most part tolerated.

Mr.H

Watching the Liverpool game for instance. Can was fouled imo. The back of his ankle was scrapped with the studs of a defender in the box. That is a foul all day long. BUT imo Can "dived" to show contact was made. In my book he shouldnt have to do that. if its a foul its a foul. But going down is diving.

Mr.H

jaykay74 wrote: »

So you hurdle a tackle and lose your footing and you get carded for it

What I despise is the whole Aaron Ramsey method. Its where you "hurdle" a player to avoid getting clattered. You fall to the ground and dont look at the ref. You either get your free kick or you claim you just tried to avoid the tackle so your "technically not diving".

I would card them for it. There is a difference between trying to step over a tackle and "hurdling where you are obviously trying to exaggerate a "foul" and make it look worse than it was.

jaykay74

Mr.H wrote: »

What I despise is the whole Aaron Ramsey method. Its where you "hurdle" a player to avoid getting clattered. You fall to the ground and dont look at the ref. You either get your free kick or you claim you just tried to avoid the tackle so your "technically not diving".

I would card them for it. There is a difference between trying to step over a tackle and "hurdling where you are obviously trying to exaggerate a "foul" and make it look worse than it was.

I dunno, this sounds pretty stupid to me. Maybe you have a youtube clip to back up your point but it sounds like the guy doesn't want to get kicked and you want him punished for not being willing to take a kicking ?

greendom

Mr.H wrote: »

What I despise is the whole Aaron Ramsey method. Its where you "hurdle" a player to avoid getting clattered. You fall to the ground and dont look at the ref. You either get your free kick or you claim you just tried to avoid the tackle so your "technically not diving".

I would card them for it. There is a difference between trying to step over a tackle and "hurdling where you are obviously trying to exaggerate a "foul" and make it look worse than it was.

You can hardly blame a player who was put out of the game for over a year due to a bad foul wanting to avoid contact if he possibly can.

It's such a grey area that I can't see hard and fast rules to ever be enforced. unless the authorities are happy for players to be booked who genuinely slip/fall while being tackled

Mr.H

While I understand that a player doesnt want to be injured. Without cutting out diving through zero tolerance, it allows loopholes to be taken advantage of.

Ok lets say it wasnt strict enforce where a player is booked for going down.

Lets say it was a panel of refs every week that review the weekends games. This panel would scrutinise every game (in the league the oversee). They would watch every event in each game and decide among themselves if any player cheated in any game by trying to gain an advantage by trying to manipulate a ref in any circumstance. Be it a dive, conning the ref in ANY instance or a bad challenge that wasnt punished.

EG: Carra use to do this a lot. He would kick the ball out for a corner (clearing the lines). He would then put his hand up claiming a goal kick.

Now that might sound like nothing but that is cheating and by conning the other team out of a corner it stops a chance for a goal. A review committee in my scenario would book him.

*I use Carra as an example as I am a Liverpool fan and do not want to be accused of prejudice by picking on other teams or players. Every team cons refs in slight ways such as this example. Its seen as clever play but its unsporting.

Definitely agree with bans for diving.

However, implementation would be very hard in some instances. You can receive contact but still dive.

Ashley Young type dives would obviously be fast tracked.

Liam O

So these bans for diving. Will Daley Blind get the same punishment for a dive to win a free kick outside his own box in a meaningless incident as Ashley Young will for winning a free kick outside the opposition box? I think there's too much of a grey area to implement it and some players would be treated harder than others, namely the more talented ones.