Haggling and prices

Saraeavan

Hi all - you've heard from me before on this one but just want to come forward with all details and pricing and see if anyone had an "negotiating" advice

We're hiring a exclusive hire venue (though the gardens still open to public) in 6 months. Fee is €3,500 to cover venue, staff, decoration, candles, flowers, ceremony and reception set up. We're going for BBQ buffet - after lots of back and forth over inflated menu prices we've managed to get them down to €55 pp for small canapés, main meal and late night sandwiches. They've said they want an extra €7pp for desserts which I find excessive and feel it should be included. On top of this they want to charge €3.50 pp for tea and coffee on arrival (very high, feel this should be complimentary??) and another €100 to clear away scones etc we are bringing ourselves. They also tried to add an extra 10% service charge but have now waived this after I gave out about it never having been mentioned before! They also charge a whopping €12 corkage on wine and €15 on prosecco. Double lots of other places.

Our latest communication with them on this has come back with a resounding "no movement on any of these prices" apart from waiving the 10% service charge.

I'm wondering do we have any leverage left at this stage? It's all starting to go way over budget. But with it only 6months away and invitations about to go to print threatening cancellation isn't an option (no deposits have gone down yet though). The planner herself at the venue is brilliant and is working very hard to help us but it is the general manager who continues to come back with inflexibility. ALL and any advice at this juncture is very welcome thanks so much!

Bacchus

Saraeavan wrote: »

Hi all - you've heard from me before on this one but just want to come forward with all details and pricing and see if anyone had an "negotiating" advice

We're hiring a exclusive hire venue (though the gardens still open to public) in 6 months. Fee is €3,500 to cover venue, staff, decoration, candles, flowers, ceremony and reception set up. We're going for BBQ buffet - after lots of back and forth over inflated menu prices we've managed to get them down to €55 pp for small canapés, main meal and late night sandwiches. They've said they want an extra €7pp for desserts which I find excessive and feel it should be included. On top of this they want to charge €3.50 pp for tea and coffee on arrival (very high, feel this should be complimentary??) and another €100 to clear away scones etc we are bringing ourselves. They also tried to add an extra 10% service charge but have now waived this after I gave out about it never having been mentioned before! They also charge a whopping €12 corkage on wine and €15 on prosecco. Double lots of other places.

Our latest communication with them on this has come back with a resounding "no movement on any of these prices" apart from waiving the 10% service charge.

I'm wondering do we have any leverage left at this stage? It's all starting to go way over budget. But with it only 6months away and invitations about to go to print threatening cancellation isn't an option (no deposits have gone down yet though). The planner herself at the venue is brilliant and is working very hard to help us but it is the general manager who continues to come back with inflexibility. ALL and any advice at this juncture is very welcome thanks so much!

I've no idea what venue you have booked or what standard it is so I don't know if you're already getting a bargain or getting ripped off. You do say it is "exclusive" though so I imagine it's nice enough.

It's sounds though like you've pushed them hard already with the negotiation and they were quite accommodating (getting the price of the meal + canapes down, dropping the 10% service charge). Were you not aware of all the costs when you booked? All those costs you list sound about right for an "exclusive" venue (the "scone clearing" fee is odd and corkage seems a tad high to me though).

To me, and I don't have the full picture here, it sounds a bit like you didn't do your due diligence on costing things and now you want the venue to bear the cost of that by eating in to their profits (sorry to be blunt about it). Did the venue mislead you or give you false/out of date pricing at any point? You could use that to show they were not upfront when you booked. If not, I'm not sure what you can do but cancel. You haven't formally booked since you haven't paid the deposit yet so you could always just do that... you never know, they may come back to you with a better offer but I wouldn't be counting on that seeing as you only have 6 months to find a venue.

Saraeavan

Thanks for the reply really appreciate it! On the due diligence you're probably right when it comes to things like tea and coffee on arrival (though €3.50pp seems excessive) and we only asked recently about bringing our own scones (but again €100 just seems like a petty add on) As far as menus we were told full day menus were going to likely
Come in at €55-75pp and as we were going BBQ buffet we'd be at lower end. But I'm very disappointed they won't supply dessert in that. The 10% was never ever mentioned, we were told all staffing and service would be included in the hire fee. I'm irked that they've come back to say they'd waive it now "as a gesture" when in fact it was a "hidden extra" they tried to tag on last minute (was omitted from all initial menus). And as you say, corkage it's very high, but we did know that from the get go. So of course some onus is on us but it took them 6 months to get us the menu prices and no little extras are adding up big time!

Preset No.3

Bacchus wrote: »

it sounds a bit like you didn't do your due diligence on costing things and now you want the venue to bear the cost of that by eating in to their profits (sorry to be blunt about it).

Want the exclusive venue but not willing to pay for it.

Saraeavan

Preset No.3 wrote: »

Want the exclusive venue but not willing to pay for it.

Wow, that's not a very constructive or pleasant statement. We are paying for it actually, to the tune of €3.5k. A figure we didn't haggle with at all.

Faith

Exclusive venues are unfortunately a premium cost. Nothing they're quoting seems unreasonably high to me, given what I costed in exclusive venues when we were planning. Most exclusive venues we looked at required that you booked the entire venue for the whole weekend if you wanted it in high season (those that included accommodation, that is). Others had a venue hire fee that included nothing but the room, and food options began at €75 pp. So €3,500 for all that you've mentioned seems really reasonable, and I'm not surprised that they're holding firm on the remaining costs after agreeing on €55 for the meal.

For instance, Ballymaloe in Cork charges:

- corkage is €20.00 per bottle of sparkling wine
- Tea/Coffee with biscuits from €3.00 per person.
- Canapés start at €8.00 per person and include a choice of three.
- Dinner starts at €65.00 per person for a buffet style dinner to €75.00 per person with a choice on the main course.
- There is a 10% service charge added to the dinner.
- Evening food €8 pp
- Flower arrangements for each table and flower arrangements throughout the Grain Store. From €200.00
- Personalised menus, the printing out and setting up of the table plan - €80

So I doubt you've got any leverage. I'd say they're doing the absolute best for you that they can and it seems to me

Saraeavan

Thanks for the responses. Given me food for thought. I'm still a little upset about some of their last minute add ons but overall appreciate the deal we are getting from them.

Gatica

Saraeavan wrote: »

Hi all - you've heard from me before on this one but just want to come forward with all details and pricing and see if anyone had an "negotiating" advice

We're hiring a exclusive hire venue (though the gardens still open to public) in 6 months. Fee is €3,500 to cover venue, staff, decoration, candles, flowers, ceremony and reception set up. We're going for BBQ buffet - after lots of back and forth over inflated menu prices we've managed to get them down to €55 pp for small canapés, main meal and late night sandwiches. They've said they want an extra €7pp for desserts which I find excessive and feel it should be included. On top of this they want to charge €3.50 pp for tea and coffee on arrival (very high, feel this should be complimentary??) and another €100 to clear away scones etc we are bringing ourselves. They also tried to add an extra 10% service charge but have now waived this after I gave out about it never having been mentioned before! They also charge a whopping €12 corkage on wine and €15 on prosecco. Double lots of other places.

Our latest communication with them on this has come back with a resounding "no movement on any of these prices" apart from waiving the 10% service charge.

I'm wondering do we have any leverage left at this stage? It's all starting to go way over budget. But with it only 6months away and invitations about to go to print threatening cancellation isn't an option (no deposits have gone down yet though). The planner herself at the venue is brilliant and is working very hard to help us but it is the general manager who continues to come back with inflexibility. ALL and any advice at this juncture is very welcome thanks so much!

TBH, I'm a little confused about your post. You say you're hiring an exclusive venue but you haven't paid a deposit - 1. an exclusive venue will always have high demand, so anyone else could end up booking it up ahead of you, 2. you need a deposit and/or contract to make any booking final. You're ready to send invitations, so you don't want to pull out now, but you've not actually finished the "scoping" or "hiring" process.

Generally, when booking something, you have bargaining power during the negotiation stage because you can simply walk away. The idea is that they'd want your custom enough to give you what you want before you walk. If you've already hired them, then unless otherwise specified in a contract, they can charge you what they like for any other extras, and you've already lost your bargaining power.

Also, as others have mentioned, at 55pp it doesn't seem that exclusive a price, so either it's a really unpopular time of year, or it's not all that exclusive - in which case their other prices would be a bit high.
The dinner pp price seems like good value if it's exclusive as you say, and also a bit odd that it doesn't include dessert. This is again another thing that should be specified in the contract, i.e. what are they providing for 55pp, if it didn't say dessert, then I'm afraid that's just how it is. While I do agree that in general a bit of tea at 3Euro50 a pop seems extravagant, again you have to remember that's why it's an exclusive venue and they can charge what they like. Same goes for corkage...

You have to ask yourself, are you willing to go elsewhere? because ultimately, that's the main bargaining chip.

zoobizoo

For things like this, if they are not willing to negotiate on price, you need to get the most out of what they are offering...

So if they want to charge €3.50 for coffee and tea request that they have a barrista and proper coffee machine to cater for all your guests.

And for dessert, if they want €7, make sure you are getting a dessert that you'd happily pay seven quid for. I was in a restaurant where the dessert was about €7 and it was four largish desserts on plate... I wouldn't be happy with €7 for a **** dessert.

Basically, if you are paying for it, make sure that they are supplying the best for you and your guests.

The pettiness of the €100 would irk me.

Saraeavan

Gatica wrote: »

TBH, I'm a little confused about your post. You say you're hiring an exclusive venue but you haven't paid a deposit - 1. an exclusive venue will always have high demand, so anyone else could end up booking it up ahead of you, 2. you need a deposit and/or contract to make any booking final. You're ready to send invitations, so you don't want to pull out now, but you've not actually finished the "scoping" or "hiring" process.

Generally, when booking something, you have bargaining power during the negotiation stage because you can simply walk away. The idea is that they'd want your custom enough to give you what you want before you walk. If you've already hired them, then unless otherwise specified in a contract, they can charge you what they like for any other extras, and you've already lost your bargaining power.

Also, as others have mentioned, at 55pp it doesn't seem that exclusive a price, so either it's a really unpopular time of year, or it's not all that exclusive - in which case their other prices would be a bit high.
The dinner pp price seems like good value if it's exclusive as you say, and also a bit odd that it doesn't include dessert. This is again another thing that should be specified in the contract, i.e. what are they providing for 55pp, if it didn't say dessert, then I'm afraid that's just how it is. While I do agree that in general a bit of tea at 3Euro50 a pop seems extravagant, again you have to remember that's why it's an exclusive venue and they can charge what they like. Same goes for corkage...

You have to ask yourself, are you willing to go elsewhere? because ultimately, that's the main bargaining chip.

Sorry I should have been a bit clearer on the timeline of events:

We made contact in April this year - had a couple meetings and walk throughs - were told hire fee and agreed but told menus prices no available til end of summer - sent a hire agreement in July - signed and sent back - said we couldn't pay deposit until we knew menu prices which they fully understood - waited for menus until we FINALLY got them end of october - they came in way above estimates and this is where we are. We have deposits ready to go since summer but can you understand we did not want to pay this until menu confirmations, then all the little extras started.

AoifeCork

As others have mentioned, I think you're getting a great price at €55 pp.
As somebody who works in these exclusive use places a lot, they are very very proud of their food and the "different" style of wedding they cater for. I can imagine that being told that a couple would be bringing their own food (scones, in this case) for whatever part of the meal may have irked them or left a bad taste. Any particular reason you're doing that? Is it a gift from a family member or their contribution to the day? If so then reassess the €100 fee with them. Their corkage seems to be the going price for exclusive use and €7 per dessert seems to be the 4/5 star rate as well. Considering I've paid 5/5.50 for cardboard cakes in some of the cafes in Cork. :P

As mentioned above, if you are still unhappy, perhaps look elsewhere... If even just to get an idea of costs for similar packages in other exclusive use venues. Exclusivity is expensive and venues need to make their bit back too. best of luck with it!

Preset No.3

This doesn't sound very exclusive to me at all. They don't have menus, don't take a deposit, and then come up with a few last minute charges.

Any real exclusive venue would be booked up 2 years in advance, have a professional team of wedding co-ordinators and have the finer details tied down 12 months in advance. So I would be considering walking away as this exclusive venue doesn't seem to know what its doing. Tell us the name of the venue.

fits

I think people are getting confused by the 'exclusive' term.

Exclusive use means only wedding party on venue. It doesn't necessarily mean its luxurious.

stargazer 68

fits wrote: »

I think people are getting confused by the 'exclusive' term.

Exclusive use means only wedding party on venue. It doesn't necessarily mean its luxurious.

It varies I guess. My hotel is 'exclusive' to the wedding party but doesn't include a 'hire fee' etc.

A2LUE42

For the tea/coffee, go with the 3.50 per person, it isn't excessive. Just insist that it isn't required for all the guests and only have it for a % of your guests.

You will have to judge this yourselves if you want it for 60 of the 160 guests, or whatever your actual numbers are.

I know most hotels charge for tea/coffee for 100% of the expected number, but never have that much crockery ready as they know they won't need it.

JustAThought

Sounds like they knew they'd have you trapped by msking you sign but having no details til now - they have your commitment but you don't know what prove uou're paying so cant make prooer decisions. You can get cards printed easy somewhere else with a different venue mentioned.
E55 for a buffet ??? Thats mad. You wouldn't psy that for yourself for a evening meal - and thats on top of 31/2 k
Hello money. The guests will have no idea it cost that much - and they'll have yo stand in line & serve themselves for their own dinner??? Madness.

Arbiter of Good Taste

JustAThought wrote: »

Sounds like they knew they'd have you trapped by msking you sign but having no details til now - they have your commitment but you don't know what prove uou're paying so cant make prooer decisions. You can get cards printed easy somewhere else with a different venue mentioned.
E55 for a buffet ??? Thats mad. You wouldn't psy that for yourself for a evening meal - and thats on top of 31/2 k
Hello money. The guests will have no idea it cost that much - and they'll have yo stand in line & serve themselves for their own dinner??? Madness.

Actually, I know of one venue that charges more for the buffet/barbecue option. It makes sense. They have to have much more variety than he standard 2 choices on the sit down menu. It's harder to anticipate who will eat what, so they probably have to prepare a lot more food.

solerina

Exclusive seems to mean a licence to charge I this case. I wouldn't mind the extra costs if you didn't have to fork out 3.5k for the venue. Seems crazy all these add ons

Arbiter of Good Taste

solerina wrote: »

Exclusive seems to mean a licence to charge I this case. I wouldn't mind the extra costs if you didn't have to fork out 3.5k for the venue. Seems crazy all these add ons

But how do you know it's crazy? You have no idea where the venue is, the size of it, the level of exclusivity/luxury, or the level of demand? For all we know, the OP has a very unrealistic view of what she should be paying.

solerina

Arbiter of Good Taste wrote: »

But how do you know it's crazy? You have no idea where the venue is, the size of it, the level of exclusivity/luxury, or the level of demand? For all we know, the OP has a very unrealistic view of what she should be paying.

In my opinion it's crazy....I am entitled to my opinion !!!

Saraeavan

Arbiter of Good Taste wrote: »

Actually, I know of one venue that charges more for the buffet/barbecue option. It makes sense. They have to have much more variety than he standard 2 choices on the sit down menu. It's harder to anticipate who will eat what, so they probably have to prepare a lot more food.

That, I'm afraid, makes no sense to me at all. For one, every single place we enquired had a BBQ buffet as their lowest price menu option. Next, even if there's slightly more food it does not have to be finished and individually plated to the same standard as a sit-down plated meal. The time and effort that takes on the venues part is massive compared with people queueing up to serve themselves!

Saraeavan

I'd be interested to hear what people's opinions are on this: this venue normally charges 29.95 for a 3 course meal in their supper club. We are being charged 55 a head, without a starter or dessert?? I understand "wedding menus" (but for what it's worth it's the same food!) have a mark up on them. But to have them almost double the cost and losing 2 courses? It's really driving me nuts at this point. Especially when there's a precedence there for a much lower priced menu...

Pistachios & cream

Saraeavan, I would be very worried about this venue if I was you. To me it is utterly unprofessional that they could not give you menu prices a year ahead of your wedding.

Every wedding venue I viewed had their wedding prices for the next year and some for the following year again available. The wedding business is based on people booking on average 12 to 18 months in advance.

It also seems from your posts that your relationship with them has now soured and you dont feel you can trust them.the last thing you want in your wedding day is to be worried about the venue.

The 3 main things people remember from a wedding are the food, the bsnd and the brides dress. The food being the most important.

Gatica

Saraeavan wrote: »

I'd be interested to hear what people's opinions are on this: this venue normally charges 29.95 for a 3 course meal in their supper club. We are being charged 55 a head, without a starter or dessert?? I understand "wedding menus" (but for what it's worth it's the same food!) have a mark up on them. But to have them almost double the cost and losing 2 courses? It's really driving me nuts at this point. Especially when there's a precedence there for a much lower priced menu...

If you feel uneasy about this venue and feel they're ripping you off, then change venue. If you try to haggle and they don't budge, then unfortunately there's not much you can do, unless you decide to go along with it...

Bacchus

Saraeavan wrote: »

I'd be interested to hear what people's opinions are on this: this venue normally charges 29.95 for a 3 course meal in their supper club. We are being charged 55 a head, without a starter or dessert?? I understand "wedding menus" (but for what it's worth it's the same food!) have a mark up on them. But to have them almost double the cost and losing 2 courses? It's really driving me nuts at this point. Especially when there's a precedence there for a much lower priced menu...

I think it's pretty clear what you need to do here. I'm not sure what more you are looking for here? For someone to confirm to you that yes this venue (which none of us know the details of) is ripping you off and you should hard ball them into offering you €29.95 a head for the meal? Do you realistically believe this is something the venue will do (drop €20-€30 per person off the cost).

What they charge for a sit down meal doesn't necessarily reflect the wedding costs. A regular evening of sittings allows the venue have multiple sittings across the day & evening (therefore bringing in more customers), a wedding requires the venue is closed down all day for one event. Also, the charge covers more than just the meal (as you said in the OP).

Your options are
1) Accept the charges (try and negotiate that scone charge away though) and move on with planning your wedding
2) Accept that you cannot afford the venue (or do not want to) and start looking pronto for other venues that charge a more acceptable rate
3) Try more hardballing, hope it works and you can cut a deal. If that fails, accept that you need to go to option 2) and have potentially cost yourself another few weeks that could have been spent looking at other venues.

As for any notion that the venue tried to corner you, I don't buy that. I feel that we're missing some details here. Was there no sample menu or menu from last year that you were able to look at? If there wasn't, then it is as much your fault entering into an agreement without seeing those details as it was their's taking their time getting those details to you. You said you had "estimates". What were they based off? What were those estimates?

Arbiter of Good Taste

Saraeavan wrote: »

I'd be interested to hear what people's opinions are on this: this venue normally charges 29.95 for a 3 course meal in their supper club. We are being charged 55 a head, without a starter or dessert?? I understand "wedding menus" (but for what it's worth it's the same food!) have a mark up on them. But to have them almost double the cost and losing 2 courses? It's really driving me nuts at this point. Especially when there's a precedence there for a much lower priced menu...

Here's your problem. There is absolutely no correlation between a "supper club" and wedding dinner.

Sounds like your expectations are completely unrealistic