"Proposed" new SEN model

byhookorbycrook

I was at the ILSA spring conference in Kilkenny when this "talk" was given -15 mins, no time to take notes and no questions answered. It was also being talked of as the "new model" , not the "proposed" one. It's going to be a disaster, cuts sold as spin.
http://ncse.ie/presentation-on-7-nov-2015-in-ucc-by-head-of-policy-mary-byrne

evolving_doors

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

I was at the ILSA spring conference in Kilkenny when this "talk" was given -15 mins, no time to take notes and no questions answered. It was also being talked of as the "new model" , not the "proposed" one. It's going to be a disaster, cuts sold as spin.
http://ncse.ie/presentation-on-7-nov-2015-in-ucc-by-head-of-policy-mary-byrne

I had a brief read of the presentation notes and i thought they kind of had a point with the phasing out of a diagnosis model/ed psych report/labelling.

For secondary the paperwork can be unnecessarily convoluted .. and then all the appeals that follow (and chasing after documentation/photocopying for stuff getting lost in the post etc). Although currently I think it is good to have that distance that the dept. is the 'gatekeeper' in terms of resources. So if a parent wants to appeal they can be pointed in the right direction towards the dept. Now if the school becomes the gatekeeper, then I could well see lots of headaches with the parents who shout the loudest getting the resources (and threats of legal cases ensuing).

It's kind of unclear what they are proposing though.
Is it an allocation to be provided to the school and the school deciding who gets it
or...
Is it an allocation provided to a NEPS team and they decide who gets what within each school.

I'm not really sure how the pilot schools are getting the resources though, do you know OP (sorry it's late!).

Maybe it's moving to a more streamlined system like the scottish system where a school is just given a general allocation and it uses it for Additional Support, whether it be for social disadvantage, behavioural issues, learning difficulties etc.

byhookorbycrook

Allocation to the school. The SENO system wasn't great but it did mean that children got ring-fenced time. With this model, I see a return to the "try the school down the road, they would be better suited to meeting your child's needs " system.

amacca

TBH I'm not surprised there is confusion between educational need and care need when more and more its hard to know who is actually in charge in a classroom the way things are set up, the kids or the adults.

The existing provisions are ridiculous also imo- the right people don't always get the help, those that do have an educational need and get help but are still not willing to make an effort can run rings around both their teacher and SNAs and they know it as SNAs seem to have no real authority (in a way that matters over a short timescale) over misbehaving students with special needs mirroring the lack of authority/autonomy a teacher now has. They're both expected to maintain the illusion of authority as far as I can see.

And I know thats going to sound harsh but students with special needs can in some cases also be students that are just plain vanilla very deliberately disruptive also (without having to resort to emotional behavioural factors)in my experience...... and the system has no real answer for this besides travelling in circles with paperwork/guff for everyone and leaving SNAs with very little they can do beyond sitting there trotting out the equivalent of "ah sure go on johnny, go on go on go on" just like the teacher.....care and support can be reduced to sitting there twiddling ones thumbs by the system as it stands as far as I can see.

I'm also not grasping fully how these proposals are going to improve things on a number of fronts tbh - highly dubious about the reducing the administrative burden on the school too - would I be right in saying more paperwork for less resources? (hard to tell from just the slides/document, maybe I'm jumping the gun)

evolving_doors

I actually can't figure out what they are proposing really!

quite simply, id guess that resource and learning suport will be amalgamated into one 'continuum'.

byhookorbycrook

There won't be resource hours as we understand them now.It will be up to the school to decide who get what, loaves and fishes.

evolving_doors

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

There won't be resource hours as we understand them now.It will be up to the school to decide who get what, loaves and fishes.

so I would presume every school will then have to have their rationale for allocating supports outlined in their SEN policy... which could potentially be poured over by solicitors/ed psychs in legal challenges if supports are turned down. Probably an extreme position but I wonder how that will play out.

In fairness though the resource was probably an administrative nightmare so the dept. should save a packet by letting school's decide. Whos going to want to be the teacher/principal that has to say no though?

man_no_plan

I have money to buy an assessment privately = I get support.

I have no money, my kid needs help, everyone knows it, the 3 NEPS assessments this year are gone = I get nothing.

The GAM that is in currently allows a lot of flexibility at school level to support those with needs but without a report. The only advantage to having a report, if it is one, is the ability to gain an Irish exemption.

You have to be creative with your hours to try hit the most needy pupils. I have seen so many well to do parents pay for assessments in order to get this or that like a spelling and grammar waiver which actually confers very little advantage across the range of exams, to them though any advantage is an advantage.

With the New aJc it seems everyone will manage the really basic standard so maybe we wont need any support - isn't it all about the exams after all??

The whole thing is arseways.

byhookorbycrook

3 NEPS assessments would be 3 times more than we will get this year! Our NEPS is trying to cover 40 schools over 3 counties and has told us that they will no longer assess for things like dyslexia. Pre NEPS we got about 10 children seen each year.

evolving_doors

Ya, I have to laugh at this NEPS 'continuum of suport' bs.