General secretary of the IFA on a possible €400,000 salary-Read mod note in post 2734

whelan2

Farmer Ed wrote: »

Thanks for that. Fair play for finding out. Something very wrong that you have to write a letter to ask someone to stop taking something you never gave them permission to take in the first place.

you have to do the same to factories to stop the ifa levy, but yes I get your point

rangler1

Good to hear that joe healy has got his quota of counties to support him,
Hope he doesn't disappoint in the debates now.
Great chance for him now if he minds it

Base price

rangler1 wrote: »

Good to hear that joe healy has got his quota of counties to support him,
Hope he doesn't disappoint in the debates now.
Great chance for him now if he minds it

I just read the IFJ article about his nomination. Don't know anything about him although he looks young (new blood) and maybe help to bridge the West v IFA rift.
http://www.farmersjournal.ie/healy-confirmed-as-ifa-presidential-candidate-197225/

rangler1

Base price wrote: »

I just read the IFJ article about his nomination. Don't know anything about him although he looks young (new blood) and maybe help to bridge the West v IFA rift.
http://www.farmersjournal.ie/healy-confirmed-as-ifa-presidential-candidate-197225/

I think he's on the environment committee too.
Just checked, it's the farm business commitee

Base price

Anyone know what time the Executive Board meeting commences at tomorrow and how long it is expected to run?

Farmer Ed

Just a blast from the past or maybe even a history lesson. It would appear that the love of money is infact the root of all evil.

http://politico.ie/archive/long-honeymoon-ifa-and-icmsa

coolshannagh28

Farmer Ed wrote: »

Just a blast from the past or maybe even a history lesson. It would appear that the love of money is infact the root of all evil.

http://politico.ie/archive/long-honeymoon-ifa-and-icmsa

"Its deja vu all over again"

Base price

Farmer Ed wrote: »

Just a blast from the past or maybe even a history lesson. It would appear that the love of money is infact the root of all evil.

http://politico.ie/archive/long-honeymoon-ifa-and-icmsa

Thanks for that, interesting reading and explains a lot about our (Irish grassroot farmers) situation

Bitten & Hisses

whelan2 wrote: »

You have to write in a letter can only claim most recent payments and she said my account would be adjusted

Will they accept an instruction to stop future levies, or are you expected to write in after every order?

Base price

Base price wrote: »

Anyone know what time the Executive Board meeting commences at tomorrow and how long it is expected to run?

Was going to head to Bluebell tomorrow afternoon to protest but I now know that Limerick IFA have withdrawn their protest due to political wrangling - nods and winks, I scratch your back, you scratch mine, we will look after each other wink, wink, etc, etc.
In the current situation that line doe's not cut it for me - the boys are looking after the boys while members and non members have well funded the Association for the last 40 years.

So does anyone know what time the meeting commences at.

rangler1

Burns expects to have his quota tomorrow, but O leary and Deane are having problems

alps

rangler1 wrote: »

Burns expects to have his quota tomorrow, but O leary and Deane are having problems

You could have Renaghan and Mccarthy drop out to go for Deputy....This could get either O Leary or Cullinane over the line on nominations.. Doubt if Dean will get there.
It will go all the way to 5.30 on the 6th...

rangler1

alps wrote: »

You could have Renaghan and Mccarthy drop out to go for Deputy....This could get either O Leary or Cullinane over the line on nominations.. Doubt if Dean will get there.
It will go all the way to 5.30 on the 6th...

I thought cullinane and reneghan could be the last two, but could go your way, so Oleary still has a chance

TITANIUM.

rangler1 wrote: »

Burns expects to have his quota tomorrow, but O leary and Deane are having problems

How is Mccarthy doing. I think West cork let him down

Base price

So here we are 2734 posts later on this thread and @ 23.57 and nobody can inform me or is willing to inform me as too the time the IFA Exec Board meeting tomorrow.

alps

rangler1 wrote: »

I thought cullinane and reneghan could be the last two, but could go your way, so Oleary still has a chance

Think Kerry and Limerick going to be important here....

Do Kerry have 2 Chairmen? They have 2 at National Council so could they have 2 nominations?

Daniel1122

Is McCarthy in the race for president. I don't think he even got the support of the chair in kerry yet.

Daniel1122

kerry and limerick has one chairperson each

Daniel1122

cork has 3 west, north and Central cork

alps

Base price wrote: »

So here we are 2734 posts later on this thread and @ 23.57 and nobody can inform me or is willing to inform me as too the time the IFA Exec Board meeting tomorrow.

Don't know...but not being smart, all the executive council phone numbers are in the IFA website...might be worth a text a call...

rangler1

TITANIUM. wrote: »

How is Mccarthy doing. I think West cork let him down

,

Heard nothing about him, supposed to be a lot of interest in regional chairmens positions, only branch delegates gets to vote for them, so a lot less canvassing for them

rangler1

Base price wrote: »

So here we are 2734 posts later on this thread and @ 23.57 and nobody can inform me or is willing to inform me as too the time the IFA Exec Board meeting tomorrow.

It'll be an all day meeting, they usually start at 11 so that's all I know

Base price

rangler1 wrote: »

It'll be an all day meeting, they usually start at 11 so that's all I know

Are you going?

rangler1

Base price wrote: »

Are you going?

No longer involved TG

Bass Reeves

rangler1 wrote: »

You're making it up as you go along aren't you, I'd prefer to get enough for my lamb but I'm quite happy with subsidies as price isn't going to improve.
Greening is part of my subsidy that is dependent on how I farm, that greening payment is available to all farmers across Europe isn't it, so how do you make out that irish farmers shouldn't get it.
Why shouldn't I be arrogant with the accusations the likes of you come up with, anything I have done , I have done under the the rules and regulations of the EU, Same with IFA, I used the services that was available to me as a member,. I didn't get any of your 400m, that you're dreaming about...sue the bloody govt

Ireland's interpretation of greening is very interesting. It is unlikely to survive the next CAP review. Nobody said that greening should not be recieved by Irish farmers rather that the system used to disperse the funds was questionable at the very least. The department decided that greening was paid as a fraction of your SFP, this is questionable and is likely to be change to a flat rate payment after the next review which may well depend on farming actions. It may well be part of a highly funded envoirmental type scheme.

Subsidised payments have a way of distorting the market and are often not in the interest of the producer. It is interesting to look back at the house grant policy that we followed in this country for years. It limited the size of houses and every time it increased the price of housing increased. Farm payments are similar they well distort the market. We might well produce less milk, beef, lamb and grain without it. This might be replicated across Europe. This might cause much higher prices be paid to primary producers. We have only to look at milk price, a small shortage causes prices rise exponentially and return higher margins to farmers. yes the market is more volatile but profits are higher. It might also force retailers and processors to give forward contracts for production and take away the risk from primary producers.

whelan2 wrote: »

It's funny that the most of the problems in ifa are caused by too much money while FBD's problems are caused by not enough money!

It is a real issue with organisation funded by memberships. There seems to be a hunger to spend all the money in the pot. We give out about Government Dept and Co Councils that spend all there budgets but lots of organisation have the same issue. In the IFa this seems to have taken the form of excessive wages and pensions.

whelan2 wrote: »

Thats 760,000:eek:

It is amazing the way the small thing add up. My mother was right look after the pennies, the pounds will look after themselves.

Farmer Ed wrote: »

Someone was telling me but I would like if anyone could clarify this? Most Co ops take levies from milk cheques. If my source is correct. A lot of these can be stopped also. My friend reckoned one of them he was paying was coming to something like 700 a year and he was going straight to the co op to have it stopped. Anyone know if this is the case? I know Co ops are different cos they are governed by icos so in effect they can do stuff regular companys can't.

Yes the same EIF levy that is taken from beef is taken from the milk cheque, it is stopped from pig, chicken, lamb and grain sales as well. It is set around 0.15% of sales.

whelan2 wrote: »

Oh we'll step down but we won't really step down. A load of bullsh*t

Do you remember Charlie's ball it was a take off of the song Lannigan ball. Much the same ''eddie stepped out and Tim stepped in again''

Farmer Ed wrote: »

They are going to step down subject to a rule change that will allow them to be re elected.

This is a carbon copy of what happened in Dairygold a couple of years ago. They were back again quicker than if they had gone to the loo.

Rangler your point that "They have to get the support of two or three Co Chairmen so that'll weed out the messers"

Surely you could also make the point that this is a barrier to true democracy.
Surely the ordinary members should get to decide if they think someone is "a messer" or not? Democracy should be of the people,by the people,for the people. If it's a case iron fist rule giving people only a select few people they can vote for. That's not democracy..

By changing from County nomination to Co Chairman they have set up top down management of the organisation. Most unions are run the same way with a greater say to full time officers staff. It get hard to break the status quo. lobbying can be done by fulltime staff and officers against any nomination that is not in there interest favours can be offered and promised or even threats.

rangler1 wrote: »

Yea, as I say, I can't see much change, as far as I know or can remember, nominations for regional chairmen have to have the support of a number of Co.Chairmen. in normal circumstances, guys would have to build credibility to get a nomination, otherwise you would have messers.......if a person is prepared to work for farmers why isn't he there already. to get a nomination his own county has to nominate him so that's where the democracy would come in, I think he'd even have to have his own branches nomination to start so even the messers would be weeded out at that stage,
Then get the counties nomination. That much effort would test their commitment anyway, once that's done they only have to canvass probably 4 or 5 other county chairmen which is better than canvassing 4 or f 5 other counties

How can you accuse anyone seeking a nomination a messer. In any democratic organisation if you cannot support any candidate it is you duty to seek a nomination and stand for election. This is a fundamental principle of democracy it well to remember this in the year we have.

rangler1 wrote: »

It's about time now to stop the witch hunt, Daisys questions even if they're answered, which I doubt, will achieve nothing. Its getting a bit childish.
The four regional chairmen should never have been pushed, seeing that no one has any proof that they knew anything. they're right not to allow themselves to be bulied

Again it is a fundamental principle that ingnorance is no defence. You made the point in a another post using a defence of not having the training to understanding accounts. The truth is that those on the higher echelons of the IFA refused to seek proper accounts over the years. Ever Credit Union, sport organisation, group water scheme etc has to publish accounts to it members. I remember at a meeting years ago where the Treasurer wanted to collect copies of accounts after an AGM. One member not too highly educated insisted that this was not right. He argued the point that this did not enable members to examine or get examined the accounts. To be fair to the Treasurer he had nothing to hide and after a discussion actually sided with this member as he saw down the line of the danger of such a policy

One dose not need to be a profession to examine accounts, question should always be asked about same. What leads to issues with accounts and with the IFA handling of money is when there is a failure (and acceptance of that failure) to produce accounts that are easily understandable, to answer question on those accounts and to expand on the information within those accounts.

Those who accept this and have failed to act on it and again ingnorance is defence of this. No point in telling the taxman you accountant made a mistake (even if he really did), the final responsibility rests with you.

Bitten & Hisses wrote: »

Will they accept an instruction to stop future levies, or are you expected to write in after every order?

you can send a letterinsisting on all future levies be stopped.

rangler1

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Ireland's interpretation of greening is very interesting. It is unlikely to survive the next CAP review. Nobody said that greening should not be recieved by Irish farmers rather that the system used to disperse the funds was questionable at the very least. The department decided that greening was paid as a fraction of your SFP, this is questionable and is likely to be change to a flat rate payment after the next review which may well depend on farming actions. It may well be part of a highly funded envoirmental type scheme.

Subsidised payments have a way of distorting the market and are often not in the interest of the producer. It is interesting to look back at the house grant policy that we followed in this country for years. It limited the size of houses and every time it increased the price of housing increased. Farm payments are similar they well distort the market. We might well produce less milk, beef, lamb and grain without it. This might be replicated across Europe. This might cause much higher prices be paid to primary producers. We have only to look at milk price, a small shortage causes prices rise exponentially and return higher margins to farmers. yes the market is more volatile but profits are higher. It might also force retailers and processors to give forward contracts for production and take away the risk from primary producers.




It is a real issue with organisation funded by memberships. There seems to be a hunger to spend all the money in the pot. We give out about Government Dept and Co Councils that spend all there budgets but lots of organisation have the same issue. In the IFa this seems to have taken the form of excessive wages and pensions.



It is amazing the way the small thing add up. My mother was right look after the pennies, the pounds will look after themselves.



Yes the same EIF levy that is taken from beef is taken from the milk cheque, it is stopped from pig, chicken, lamb and grain sales as well. It is set around 0.15% of sales.



Do you remember Charlie's ball it was a take off of the song Lannigan ball. Much the same ''eddie stepped out and Tim stepped in again''



By changing from County nomination to Co Chairman they have set up top down management of the organisation. Most unions are run the same way with a greater say to full time officers staff. It get hard to break the status quo. lobbying can be done by fulltime staff and officers against any nomination that is not in there interest favours can be offered and promised or even threats.



How can you accuse anyone seeking a nomination a messer. In any democratic organisation if you cannot support any candidate it is you duty to seek a nomination and stand for election. This is a fundamental principle of democracy it well to remember this in the year we have.



Again it is a fundamental principle that ingnorance is no defence. You made the point in a another post using a defence of not having the training to understanding accounts. The truth is that those on the higher echelons of the IFA refused to seek proper accounts over the years. Ever Credit Union, sport organisation, group water scheme etc has to publish accounts to it members. I remember at a meeting years ago where the Treasurer wanted to collect copies of accounts after an AGM. One member not too highly educated insisted that this was not right. He argued the point that this did not enable members to examine or get examined the accounts. To be fair to the Treasurer he had nothing to hide and after a discussion actually sided with this member as he saw down the line of the danger of such a policy

One dose not need to be a profession to examine accounts, question should always be asked about same. What leads to issues with accounts and with the IFA handling of money is when there is a failure (and acceptance of that failure) to produce accounts that are easily understandable, to answer question on those accounts and to expand on the information within those accounts.

Those who accept this and have failed to act on it and again ingnorance is defence of this. No point in telling the taxman you accountant made a mistake (even if he really did), the final responsibility rests with you.



you can send a letterinsisting on all future levies be stopped.

Plenty of messers out there and some I've met, you wouldn't want them running anything,
Also again finance was never part of my responsibility, unlike the accountant in your example it wasn't part of my job description.
and I definitely wasn't on an accountants salary

Base price

rangler1 wrote: »

No longer involved TG

Ah that's a pity as I would have liked to meet you in person.
Probably better off as I am going to be there to object to the taking of the EIF levy deductions from members and non members.
Last time I stood at an IFA protest was during the beef blockade in the 90's.
I too am of an age where one has to hand the reins over to the younger generation but in my case I want them to be educated/understand the political farming past in all it's ugly Glory.

Bass Reeves

rangler1 wrote: »

Plenty of messers out there and some I've met, you wouldn't want them running anything,
Also again finance was never part of my responsibility, unlike the accountant in your example it wasn't part of my job description.
and I definitely wasn't on an accountants salary

It should be up to the membership to sort out the messers. At the end of the day it is there responsibility and in there interest to do so. This smacks of either we know better than you do or we know what is right for you.

If you accept any position in any organisation you have a responsibility for the accounts and to make sure they are a true reflection of what is happening. Con Lucey was not a trained accountant but he smelled a rat and had the guts to highlight same. Other turned a blind eye to it and tried to bury the truth. It was only when the truth was about to come out about PS pay that the panic button was hit.

In most cases it is the ability to ask hard question about accounts that are the issue. Usually this stems from the fact that those that do this are seen as trouble makers and messers.

Farmer Ed

Bass Reeves wrote: »

It should be up to the membership to sort out the messers. At the end of the day it is there responsibility and in there interest to do so. This smacks of either we know better than you do or we know what is right for you.

If you accept any position in any organisation you have a responsibility for the accounts and to make sure they are a true reflection of what is happening. Con Lucey was not a trained accountant but he smelled a rat and had the guts to highlight same. Other turned a blind eye to it and tried to bury the truth. It was only when the truth was about to come out about PS pay that the panic button was hit.

In most cases it is the ability to ask hard question about accounts that are the issue. Usually this stems from the fact that those that do this are seen as trouble makers and messers.

Couldn't agree more we have a shameful tradition in this country of trying to discredit people who ask hard questions. Will we ever learn?

TITANIUM.

Farmer Ed wrote: »

Couldn't agree more we have a shameful tradition in this country of trying to discredit people who ask hard questions. Will we ever learn?

Agree with you there Ed but I think myself that Deane did it for all the wrong reasons and I reckon that he would have been worse than any of them if he was in the position. I just can't find it in me to trust him.

Farmer Ed

TITANIUM. wrote: »

Agree with you there Ed but I think myself that Deane did it for all the wrong reasons and I reckon that he would have been worse than any of them if he was in the position. I just can't find it in me to trust him.

Can't disagree there. No sooner had he blown the whistle but he was saying that we only needed to know the pay level of the general secretary. I'm not sure he's that much in to transparency either. Problem is if the candidates have to be hand picked by the county chairmen. How likely is it we are going to see a commoner as president? I think we can be confident enough the new president will be selected from the royal family.

Bass Reeves

TITANIUM. wrote: »

Agree with you there Ed but I think myself that Deane did it for all the wrong reasons and I reckon that he would have been worse than any of them if he was in the position. I just can't find it in me to trust him.

I have to agree with you Titanium. The real scandal as I see it was that first of all when Con Lucey send his letter to the officers they choose to ignore it. Then when issues were raised at the Executive Council the 50 odd members on it accepted executive board assurances without question. Even now this same council has not insisted on more heads rolling from this board. That is why statements that regional chairmen had nothing to answer for is fundamentally flawed. It is also why the executive council are compromised and why the IFA may well struggle to survive.

Those with any understanding of fairness and accountability will exit the organisation.

coolshannagh28

I suppose we aught to be thankful to Deane for pulling the curtain and giving us a glimpse of how the other half live but the whole process since seems to be riven by cynicism and it seems ultimately little will change .However there definitely seems to be a groundswell of resentment in the grassroots and it is generally disparity which drives revolution.

Bass Reeves

Farmer Ed wrote: »

Can't disagree there. No sooner had he blown the whistle but he was saying that we only needed to know the pay level of the general secretary. I'm not sure he's that much in to transparency either. Problem is if the candidates have to be hand picked by the county chairmen. How likely is it we are going to see a commoner as president? I think we can be confident enough the new president will be selected from the royal family.

I have to agree with you analysis. A good few at higher levels may well realize now that O'Leary is compromise this may be the reason that he has not got a nomination yet. Burns may well be see by those that want to preserve the status quo as a safe pair of hands. Know nothing about Healy only his contribution to the Farming indo. However he got a nomination fairy easy. It will be interesting to see if he stands as an anti establishment candidate. It will be interesting to see his opinion on issues regarding the present divide between farmers along the western seaboard and those that in there opinion are the only real farmers.

Nekarsulm

Base price wrote: »

Ah that's a pity as I would have liked to meet you in person.
Probably better off as I am going to be there to object to the taking of the EIF levy deductions from members and non members.
Last time I stood at an IFA protest was during the beef blockade in the 90's.
I too am of an age where one has to hand the reins over to the younger generation but in my case I want them to be educated/understand the political farming past in all it's ugly Glory.

Best to bring your membership card in your pocket, Base.

Farmer Ed

Bass Reeves wrote: »

I have to agree with you analysis. A good few at higher levels may well realize now that O'Leary is compromise this may be the reason that he has not got a nomination yet. Burns may well be see by those that want to preserve the status quo as a safe pair of hands. Know nothing about Healy only his contribution to the Farming indo. However he got a nomination fairy easy. It will be interesting to see if he stands as an anti establishment candidate. It will be interesting to see his opinion on issues regarding the present divide between farmers along the western seaboard and those that in there opinion are the only real farmers.

Quite frankly I think what most people would like is an anti establishment candidate.
But under the current structure, that is just impossible.

TITANIUM.

Farmer Ed wrote: »

Can't disagree there. No sooner had he blown the whistle but he was saying that we only needed to know the pay level of the general secretary. I'm not sure he's that much in to transparency either. Problem is if the candidates have to be hand picked by the county chairmen. How likely is it we are going to see a commoner as president? I think we can be confident enough the new president will be selected from the royal family.

Ya it isn't really democratic is it.
I don't know why any IFA member can't run. Rangler says it's to cut out messes and cut down on canvassing. if they have i don't know 500 members signatures or something like that then let them run. I know we don't want to have 30 odd candidates running every time with everybody voting for there local man but this current system is very wrong IMHO.

Birdnuts

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Ireland's interpretation of greening is very interesting. It is unlikely to survive the next CAP review. Nobody said that greening should not be recieved by Irish farmers rather that the system used to disperse the funds was questionable at the very least. The department decided that greening was paid as a fraction of your SFP, this is questionable and is likely to be change to a flat rate payment after the next review which may well depend on farming actions. It may well be part of a highly funded envoirmental type scheme.


.

Interesting that and something many have suspected for a long time - there is no doubt what passes for "green" and "greening" in the context of the DAFM and their approach to farming/forestry policy, CAP spending etc. can only be described as an abuse of the terms. A bit like the way Celtic Tiger era developers described every development they threw up as "exclusive" "high spec" etc.

whelan2

Base price wrote: »

So here we are 2734 posts later on this thread and @ 23.57 and nobody can inform me or is willing to inform me as too the time the IFA Exec Board meeting tomorrow.

I would assume 11oclock, county chairman said he had a few jobs to do early in the morning before he heads off, if in doubt ring your county chairman/secretary

whelan2

We had a very lively meeting last night ending in a vote that we propose that the executive board go, no coming back. Great turn out, also 1 or 2 people felt it should be 1 man one vote in elections but there are alot of pros and cons to this. Today could be a long day in ifa hq

rangler1

Bass Reeves wrote: »

I have to agree with you Titanium. The real scandal as I see it was that first of all when Con Lucey send his letter to the officers they choose to ignore it. Then when issues were raised at the Executive Council the 50 odd members on it accepted executive board assurances without question. Even now this same council has not insisted on more heads rolling from this board. That is why statements that regional chairmen had nothing to answer for is fundamentally flawed. It is also why the executive council are compromised and why the IFA may well struggle to survive.

Those with any understanding of fairness and accountability will exit the organisation.

Exactly, at the end of the day, if you don't agree with the organisation, there is no compulsion to join.
Executive board made no assurances, it was downey and smith, with the treasurer, financial controller, and external auditors saying nothing.
General opinion I'm getting now is disappointment, but time to move on, those that want representation see ifa still there and it's business as usual. we had a meeting last night and the chairman said he has had two phone calls. It'll be business as usual until the money runs out, it's only the natonal council that's preoccupied.
incidentally i'm on two other commitees locally and both commitees say there's no one better than me to monitor the accounts......

rangler1

whelan2 wrote: »

We had a very lively meeting last night ending in a vote that we propose that the executive board go, no coming back. Great turn out, also 1 or 2 people felt it should be 1 man one vote in elections but there are alot of pros and cons to this. Today could be a long day in ifa hq

its not going to happen, too hard to vote them out unless a lot of votes change, the numbers stack up wrong. the board members know they can lay down the conditions of exit

Farmer Ed

rangler1 wrote: »

its not going to happen, too hard to vote them out unless a lot of votes change, the numbers stack up wrong. the board members know they can lay down the conditions of exit

Sadly Rangler I'd have to agree with you on this.
Then a lot of people will have ask themselves. Does this organisation really represent farmers? Or is it just all about politics and semantics?

whelan2

rangler1 wrote: »

its not going to happen, too hard to vote them out unless a lot of votes change, the numbers stack up wrong. the board members know they can lay down the conditions of exit

That was the majority choice on the night and what the chairman has to bring todays meeting from our county. At least we voiced our opinion. Out of interest how many counties have backed o leary?

whelan2

Farmer Ed wrote: »

Sadly Rangler I'd have to agree with you on this.
Then a lot of people will have ask themselves. Does this organisation really represent farmers? Or is it just all about politics and semantics?

if they stay thats the end of the ifa, good night irene. Another thing some one was saying how great BERGIN was that he didnt sign off on smiths bonus, if he knew he could have stopped the gravy train earlier

rangler1

Farmer Ed wrote: »

Quite frankly I think what most people would like is an anti establishment candidate.
But under the current structure, that is just impossible.

most people don't know what they want, IFA would be better off if these people got out and a smaller organisation of supporters went forward. the rules are there, the constitution is there, so if it doesn't suit they needn't join.
I support most organisation that asks for help, but always go in with the attitude that if any one thinks they can do better than me, well let them step up to the mark, otherwise back off, and that has worked for me form the time years ago when I used to regularly read lesson si church and every organisation since.
Bass Reeves seems to think he can decide what we've to do, but its ultimately my decision what I do or even take the position and the real members decision whether I keep the position

Farmer Ed

rangler1 wrote: »

most people don't know what they want, IFA would be better off if these people got out and a smaller organisation of supporters went forward. the rules are there, the constitution is there, so if it doesn't suit they needn't join.
I support most organisation that asks for help, but always go in with the attitude that if any one thinks they can do better than me, well let them step up to the mark, otherwise back off, and that has worked for me form the time years ago when I used to regularly read lesson si church and every organisation since.
Bass Reeves seems to think he can decide what we've to do, but its ultimately my decision what I do or even take the position and the real members decision whether I keep the position

Im guessing that if you read in church and you were to practice what you preached, then you would be giving most of your BFP to the poor or at least you wouldn't mind sharing it. Did you read the bit that says you should not misuse the name of the Lord? My own interpretation of that is.It is stressing the importance of practicing what you preach and not use a person's position in the church as an excuse to not love your neighbor as you love yourself.

Maybe a bit off topic but since you brought it up.

coolshannagh28

rangler1 wrote: »

most people don't know what they want, IFA would be better off if these people got out and a smaller organisation of supporters went forward. the rules are there, the constitution is there, so if it doesn't suit they needn't join.
I support most organisation that asks for help, but always go in with the attitude that if any one thinks they can do better than me, well let them step up to the mark, otherwise back off, and that has worked for me form the time years ago when I used to regularly read lesson si church and every organisation since.
Bass Reeves seems to think he can decide what we've to do, but its ultimately my decision what I do or even take the position and the real members decision whether I keep the position

You have done a hell of a job representing the IFA on here

rangler1

Farmer Ed wrote: »

Im guessing that if you read in church and you were to practice what you preached, then you would be giving most of your BFP to the poor or at least you wouldn't mind sharing it. Did you read the bit that says you should not misuse the name of the Lord? My own interpretation of that is.It is stressing the importance of practicing what you preach and not use a person's position in the church as an excuse to not love your neighbor as you love yourself.

Maybe a bit off topic but since you brought it up.

I'm an atheist now TG and I don't believe in santy either.
I don't bow to any one either, and claims by grown men of p smiths bullying sounds pathetic to me.
reading lessons is good ould practise for public speaking.
You should do it for the crack.

rangler1

coolshannagh28 wrote: »

You have done a hell of a job representing the IFA on here

always said anyone can have my job, I think I've always praised the organisation and refuted any lies and rubbish about it and given out information as I have it.
If messers come on here with lies they will get the respect they deserve.