General secretary of the IFA on a possible €400,000 salary-Read mod note in post 2734

whelan2

WheatenBriar wrote: »

Looks like the IFA have made a millionaire out of him
He got €535,000 in 2013 :eek:

What the fcuk


http://www.farmersjournal.ie/breaking-former-ifa-general-secretary-salary-revealed-194506/

wonder why it was reduced in 2014, 2013 was one of the worst years for farming in a long long time , makes ya think

rangler1

Base price wrote: »

http://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/official-ifa-statement-as-extraordinary-portlaoise-meeting-ends/
Going forward they are going to state the remuneration package of the General Secretary but no mention of anyone else :mad:

They can go home now, no one'll trust them

frazzledhome

Willfarman wrote: »

4 memberships stopped here. And levies will be stopped forthwith.

We had that very discussion here today. I truly feel that the salary is not only excessive but actually vulgar.

I won the debate for the moment on the levies on the grounds that without IFA my SPF would've been cut and I believe the tax incentives on land leasing wouldn't exist.

So a stay of execution till I see what the fallout is.

frazzledhome

Willfarman wrote: »

4 memberships stopped here. And levies will be stopped forthwith.

We had that very discussion here today. I truly feel that the salary is not only excessive but actually vulgar.

I won the debate for the moment on the levies on the grounds that without IFA my SPF would've been cut and I believe the tax incentives on land leasing wouldn't exist.

So a stay of execution till I see what the fallout is.

whelan2

rangler1 wrote: »

I didn't think farmers could carry on like that, stupid bollicks didn't think they could keep it under wraps forever did they. as for deane he could have stopped it in 2009 when he was involved in hiring smith, smith only took what was offered, fair dues to him, wouldn't expected anymore from deane anyway.
Such a f..... cover up

I take it derek Deane is not on your christmas card list

Base price

Willfarman wrote: »

4 memberships stopped here. And levies will be stopped forthwith.

Myself and OH have been chatting about this since the new broke.
The knee jerk reaction is to stop paying membership but I don't agree.
I may not agree with everything that the IFA do (as most know EIF levies been the main one) but we will be continuing to pay our membership.
The IFA has a strong voice in the EU and we need them there on our behalf.

Teller

How do you Cancel your Membership? Just go into the Bank & Cancel the Direct Debit?.. & Do the IFA Get Levies every time you sell an Animal @ the Mart Factory etc?...

RobertKK

I like to think the IFA hierarchy have seen this thread and the decent people who were shocked at what the General Secretary was paid, and it played it's role however small in getting the truth out.

The IFA have brought shame on the organisation with the greed involved.

rangler1

whelan2 wrote: »

I take it derek Deane is not on your christmas card list

He's been stuck in smith since I came on council, someone fed him con luceys letter so he finally had the ammo he wanted.
He expected help in an issue that no organisation could sort, so whether that's what it's about, I don't know

RobertKK

Derek Deane saying that knowing Pat Smith, he probably hasn't left the IFA empty handed - another big pay off maybe...

RobertKK

rangler1 wrote: »

He's been stuck in smith since I came on council, someone fed him con luceys letter so he finally had the ammo he wanted.
He expected help in an issue that no organisation could sort, so whether that's what it's about, I don't know

All the IFA sheep who didn't back Deane are looking even more sheepish now.

Username John

boggerman1 wrote: »

rangler stop defending the indefensible.its a bit like the catholic church blaming everyone else for their covering up of abuse for years.smith should have been paid but no ****ing way north of half a million.so basically for every animal slaughtered in this county if all guys were still allowing the factories to take the ifa levy its amounts to at least 15 weeks of cattle killed at an average kill of 30000 a week.unbelievable

Ah now...

Would you go way and not be trying to compare the abuse of kids to some lad gettin paid more than he should... For Christs sake cop on...

rangler1

Teller wrote: »

How do you Cancel your Membership? Just go into the Bank & Cancel the Direct Debit?.. & Do the IFA Get Levies every time you sell an Animal @ the Mart Factory etc?...

Ring the local office so they know why, it'd be no harm to show a reaction.
Only about four people were privileged with that information and they have to go

rangler1

RobertKK wrote: »

All the IFA sheep who didn't back Deane are looking even more sheepish now.

Good analogy for the boy that cried wolf too often

pedigree 6

"This will never end cos I want more, more give me more, give me more"

The plaster is ripped off now but it should have happened when con lucey walked. I will still keep paying my levies but the IFA are going to have serious problems now convincing the majority. I thought it was hilarious and tragic at the same time that people in the IFA were trying to keep it a secret. It was like typical farmers saying - say nothing keep it between ourselves, I look after you and you look after me, kind of mentality. You can not keep a thing like this secret and it took brave men to bring it out in the open. That's the kind of carry on that restores my faith in the IFA. To the whisleblowers the grass roots thank you.

whelan2

rangler1 wrote: »

He's been stuck in smith since I came on council, someone fed him con luceys letter so he finally had the ammo he wanted.
He expected help in an issue that no organisation could sort, so whether that's what it's about, I don't know

in fairness if it didn't sit right with con lucey then it wasn't right full stop

RobertKK

rangler1 wrote: »

Good analogy for the boy that cried wolf too often

If he cried wolf too often, you would think the IFA could afford to pay someone to avoid the current situation...
So far we found one pig with their snout in the trough, how many more? It is like animal farm.

RobertKK

Anyway well done IFA, you got Pat Smith as the number one trend on Irish twitter.

whelan2

RobertKK wrote: »

Anyway well done IFA, you got Pat Smith as the number one trend on Irish twitter.

I wonder before yesterday did the ordinary Joe soap know who pat smith was/is

rangler1

pedigree 6 wrote: »

"This will never end cos I want more, more give me more, give me more"

The plaster is ripped off now but it should have happened when con lucey walked. I will still keep paying my levies but the IFA are going to have serious problems now convincing the majority. I thought it was hilarious and tragic at the same time that people in the IFA were trying to keep it a secret. It was like typical farmers saying - say nothing keep it between ourselves, I look after you and you look after me, kind of mentality. You can not keep a thing like this secret and it took brave men to bring it out in the open. That's the kind of carry on that restores my faith in the IFA. To the whisleblowers the grass roots thank you.

Even if the whistleblower was involved in the hiring of smith.
Vote him president you deserve each other

Willfarman

Base price wrote: »

Myself and OH have been chatting about this since the new broke.
The knee jerk reaction is to stop paying membership but I don't agree.
I may not agree with everything that the IFA do (as most know EIF levies been the main one) but we will be continuing to pay our membership.
The IFA has a strong voice in the EU and we need them there on our behalf.

The ica have about as much political punch. The few bob will be going to temple street hospital me and the missus have decided.

pedigree 6

rangler1 wrote: »

Even if the whistleblower was involved in the hiring of smith.
Vote him president you deserve each other

It's not just me there's 4 members here.
What was wrong with this being made public?
It's the cover up more than the salary that's really gauls people.
Although he could have survived on half that.
Why don't you like derek deane?

RobertKK

whelan2 wrote: »

I wonder before yesterday did the ordinary Joe soap know who pat smith was/is

I am sure they didn't, a classic case of digging a hole, story was out months ago, but the digging continued, and all the people who didn't want the hole they had dug to be seen kept digging, then they all ended up falling into the hole and now everyone knows what they were trying to hide in the hole.

IFA president said he didn't know Pat Smith was paid that much, yet I think it was John (the new CAP must protect my high CAP payment while I look to become a FG politician, not a farmer) Bryan who was involved in agreeing the general secretary's pay.

RobertKK

pedigree 6 wrote: »

It's not just me there's 4 members here.
What was wrong with this being made public?
It's the cover up more than the salary that's really gauls people.
Although he could have survived on half that.
Why don't you like derek deane?

Derek Deane is like Edward Snowden, Rangler1 is like the United States government.
The truth must be kept hidden, it could lead to the death of high salaries...

Cavanjack

Should eddie not get his p45 now lads? Will this not finish the Ifa? How can farmers continue to be members after this?

limo_100

RobertKK wrote: »

I am sure they didn't, a classic case of digging a hole, story was out months ago, but the digging continued, and all the people who didn't want the hole they had dug to be seen kept digging, then they all ended up falling into the hole and now everyone knows what they were trying to hide in the hole.

IFA president said he didn't know Pat Smith was paid that much, yet I think it was John (the new CAP must protect my high CAP payment while I look to become a FG politician, not a farmer) Bryan who was involved in agreeing the general secretary's pay.

I'd say he knew to the cent what pat smith was paid i wonder would his own salary be in the same ball park??? I agree John Bryan was never likable he always seemed to have a different motive as does eddie dowey. I also believe that no political party will touch any of the IFA men now for an election

limo_100

Cavanjack wrote: »

Should eddie not get his p45 now lads? Will this not finish the Ifa? How can farmers continue to be members after this?

I think the hole board should step down, Alot of memberships cancelled round this area, How can I stop the leavys being paid in the mart??

Wanderer78

these kinna stories are getting boring now, arent they? sure nothing has changed in ireland in recent years and never will either. sad really as it looks like we ve completely wasted a crisis to make major changes in this country.

rangler1

RobertKK wrote: »

I am sure they didn't, a classic case of digging a hole, story was out months ago, but the digging continued, and all the people who didn't want the hole they had dug to be seen kept digging, then they all ended up falling into the hole and now everyone knows what they were trying to hide in the hole.

IFA president said he didn't know Pat Smith was paid that much, yet I think it was John (the new CAP must protect my high CAP payment while I look to become a FG politician, not a farmer) Bryan who was involved in agreeing the general secretary's pay.

Was it not walshe and Derek his deputy at the time. eddie said on agriland that he told the exec council how much it was which I don't remember (on mature reflection) so he's starting to trip himself up.
Looks like I got my snout outa the trough just in time. ole ole ole :cool:

Cavanjack

limo_100 wrote: »

I think the hole board should step down, Alot of memberships cancelled round this area, How can I stop the leavys being paid in the mart??

I'd say just tell them. We stopped paying the levies in the factories about 18 months ago. Easy, just rang the factories once and they have it on your file for the future. I'm just mad it was paid for so long before that.

Base price

limo_100 wrote: »

I think the hole board should step down, Alot of memberships cancelled round this area, How can I stop the leavys being paid in the mart??

Next time you are selling cattle in the mart or factory, go into the office and tell them that you no longer wish for the levy to be deducted from your account. Even better put it in writing (keep a copy) including your herd number so if they slip up and deduct it in the future you have written proof.

rangler1

OH is at a conference in England for the weekend, a lot of teagasc people there too. the teagasc guys reckon they're going to try for smiths job when they get home

Farmer Ed

limo_100 wrote: »

I think the hole board should step down, Alot of memberships cancelled round this area, How can I stop the leavys being paid in the mart??

Was told by someone who has a lot of dealing with the marts just a few weeks ago. All you seemingly have to do is call up the mart and withdraw your permission. It seems a bit arrogant that they can take this so called voluntary levy in the first place. Its like saying its ok to take someones money so long as they didn't tell you not to do it.

Bass Reeves

There is an old saying in politics ''if you are explaining you are losing''. The IFA will have some explaining. The FJ yesterday tried to cover the IFA a bit with there take on it. However they ran for cover this evening sending an email with the salary details etc to anyone with an annual subscription.

What was interesting was on top of this Salary was that he had a company car as well. I doubt if it was a VW Golf he was driving. I wonder how often the car was change every three years. No wonder Con Lucey resigned in September '14. It must have been galling to see this level of avarice being allowed in an organisation that you spend a lifetime working for at maybe 20% of money.

What was and is interesting is the attempt to compare conditions of a public servant to it. At the upper levels of the public service salaries are paid and those working at these levels put in 40+ hour weeks. They may have 6 weeks holidays but rarely take them all and they travel over and back to europe as well. I am sure that there hours are the same as Pat Smith.

I am sure a lot of executive members are fairly annoyed with Steady Eddie. I know that if I was an executive member and had voted with Eddie Downing I be gunning for him now. If he did not know the pay level he should have or else he should have checked it out before leading all the other members of that executive into the more that he did. Just because DD was part of the panel that appointed Pat Smith is not a reason that he may have being aware of the pay level that Pat Smith was on. Pay levels in 2009 may have been lower than 2013.

It always amuses me the way that we try to shoot the messenger(whistle blower) in Ireland. I suppose that it is historical issue we have with informers. However DD has won the battle, he is like Solame he has a head on his platter. Where to now ???. Maybe we will have more than a general Election next year. DD may have another head on a platter before the year is out.

Farmer Ed

rangler1 wrote: »

OH is at a conference in England for the weekend, a lot of teagasc people there too. the teagasc guys reckon they're going to try for smiths job when they get home

At that kind of money I wouldn't be surprised if Angela Merkel and Micheal O Leary applied.

limo_100

Base price wrote: »

Next time you are selling cattle in the mart or factory, go into the office and tell them that you no longer wish for the levy to be deducted from your account. Even better put it in writing (keep a copy) including your herd number so if they slip up and deduct it in the future you have written proof.

I wont wait I'll do it next week just in case i'd have the misfortune of forgetting to do it, I wonder if i put it in writing and it came out again who'd be responsible the mart or the IFA

patsy_mccabe

Farmer Ed wrote: »

At that kind of money I wouldn't be surprised if Angela Merkel and Micheal O Leary applied.

...or Crusty the Clown.:mad:

limo_100

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

...or Crusty the Clown.:mad:

Krusty would fit in well in fairness as the IFA is a circus

Greengrass1

Seen a good analogy today of the whole thing.

If every farmer had a go at the job for 6 mths there would be no debt in irish farming.

Completely over the top salary thst no one is worth imo

Buford T. Justice XIX

whelan2 wrote: »

I wonder before yesterday did the ordinary Joe soap know who pat smith was/is

I doubt the ordinary farmer knew who Pat Smith was, not to mind the average Joe Soap.

Farmer Ed wrote: »

Re history lesson. We have lost the vast majority of our full time family farms over the past 30 years while the IFA support a system that sees the highest rate of farm supports being paid to the likes of Prince Charles and Larry Goodman. I've been that innocent fool that traveled to IFA meetings in the past, only to learn that IFA only campaign for something they only know will happen anyway. It's nearly gone to a stage where if the IFA could be sure they would get fine weather they would put out a press release saying they were lobbing God, and then try a get the credit for the fine weather when it arrived.

The SFP was only instituted 15 years ago and was set up to take the emphasis away from a per animal payment to comply with WTO rules, iirc, and onto an area payment.

I don't remember any farmer complaining at the time as they were generally getting exactly what they had gotten the years before. As time moved on, though, I agree the system became more and more unfit for purpose and badly needed something similar, at least, to the current system and perhaps to the level of the original proposals.

I fail to see what the level of payment an heir to a foreign monarchy has to do with the IFA? Larry Goodman claimed for slaughter premium in the years of premium and was, under the rules, the exact same rules that farmers were applying under, entitled to the huge payments he was getting. The morality of that payment, though, I wouldn't even try to justify but those rules were available to every single person in the country. Unless you wish to enact a European law to cater for one individual, I fail to see how the IFA can be blamed for one individual benefiting more than others who had the same opportunity to benefit.

On your point about the loss of family farms, that has been going on since famine times, sometimes faster, sometimes slower but always inevitable as our economy developed from a largely subsistence farming model right up to a largely commercial one today.

There is always a push/pull factor at work in the agricultural labour force, with poor returns and prices pushing more from farming and a relatively higher income from off farm labour providing a pull. Again, that has been going on since agriculture began to dominate over hunter gatherer cultures and will continue tomorrow if the IFA was disbanded or even if it was never founded.

While we may all hanker over the supposed death of the family farm, the vast majority of Irish farms are still family farms. But commercial pressure will force more and more of them to convert to a more 'commercial' model, regardless of the IFA.

On your point about the IFA only campaigning on issues they have already found out they were getting, where did you think the campaigning was carried out? Every single day there are a multitude of campaigns going on, some with close deadlines, some with further away ones. The IFA has a limited amount of political capital to spend and have to spend it wisely, similar to a farmer putting up a slatted house. Throwing all the funds at one issue today would lead to a lack of capital available to throw a roof over the shed. It's very easy to be an internet campaigner but issues are sorted in discussions with the relevant parties, and not on a thread on an internet forum.

If you went to meetings, you would be aware of the 10-12 different headline issues that are discussed at a meeting as they are the most pertinent at that particular time and space is available for the discussion of other issues later. A standard, simple formula with space available for anyone to highlight an issue of concern to them or their area or their sector. Did you or anyone else raise any of those issues at meetings?

I really don't think I can explain how the whole process works any simpler than that. I don't always agree with the stance that the IFA take on issues but I go and make my voice heard. How anyone can sit at home and not take part in the discussion of an issue and then complain their voice isn't being heard is a concept that I struggle to understand?

Zipppy

Sorry for not reading all 24 pages...who funds the IFA?

Base price

limo_100 wrote: »

I wont wait I'll do it next week just in case i'd have the misfortune of forgetting to do it, I wonder if i put it in writing and it came out again who'd be responsible the mart or the IFA

I recon the mart would as you gave them the instruction.

royaler83

Laughable how some (one) are trying to play this down, it is absolutely out of this world!! :mad:

The credibility of the IFA is gone as far as I'm concerned, who can ever look at Downey, (or president elect) & believe a word they say.

Direct debit cancelled this morning, factory levies cancelled since the SHAM protests last year.

Many i have talked to today are insisting they are pulling out, whether they actually do is another thing!
This evenings confirmation of the figures may well be the tipping point for those that were on the fence

Cavanjack

Base price wrote: »

I recon the mart would as you gave them the instruction.

Sorry for not reading all 24 pages...who funds the IFA?

Maybe nobody after today!

Base price

Cavanjack wrote: »

Maybe nobody after today!

This is an opportunity for the IFA hierarchy to make real changes and get back in touch with the grass root farmers. Financial transparency would be a good first step.
If enough people stop paying the EIF levy then they will be forced to come up with an alternative financing option.
I remember talk of the EIF levy stopping in 2000. I found the article after a bit of searching today. Mr. Pat Smith is also mentioned in the same article

http://www.independent.ie/business/farming/main-meat-firms-deducting-passing-on-ifa-levy-26124254.html

limo_100

royaler83 wrote: »

Laughable how some (one) are trying to play this down, it is absolutely out of this world!! :mad:

The credibility of the IFA is gone as far as I'm concerned, who can ever look at Downey, (or president elect) & believe a word they say.

Direct debit cancelled this morning, factory levies cancelled since the SHAM protests last year.

Many i have talked to today are insisting they are pulling out, whether they actually do is another thing!
This evenings confirmation of the figures may well be the tipping point for those that were on the fence

Sham protests as right you only have to look at france and belgium to see a real protest, All the IFA do is stand there waiting for the rte cameras to show up and keep it going for a while and then quietly make there way back to the breast of goodman

royaler83

limo_100 wrote: »

Sham protests as right you only have to look at france and belgium to see a real protest, All the IFA do is stand there waiting for the rte cameras to show up and keep it going for a while and then quietly make there way back to the breast of goodman

:D:D:D:D:D

Farmer Ed

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

I doubt the ordinary farmer knew who Pat Smith was, not to mind the average Joe Soap.


The SFP was only instituted 15 years ago and was set up to take the emphasis away from a per animal payment to comply with WTO rules, iirc, and onto an area payment.

I don't remember any farmer complaining at the time as they were generally getting exactly what they had gotten the years before. As time moved on, though, I agree the system became more and more unfit for purpose and badly needed something similar, at least, to the current system and perhaps to the level of the original proposals.

I fail to see what the level of payment an heir to a foreign monarchy has to do with the IFA? Larry Goodman claimed for slaughter premium in the years of premium and was, under the rules, the exact same rules that farmers were applying under, entitled to the huge payments he was getting. The morality of that payment, though, I wouldn't even try to justify but those rules were available to every single person in the country. Unless you wish to enact a European law to cater for one individual, I fail to see how the IFA can be blamed for one individual benefiting more than others who had the same opportunity to benefit.

On your point about the loss of family farms, that has been going on since famine times, sometimes faster, sometimes slower but always inevitable as our economy developed from a largely subsistence farming model right up to a largely commercial one today.

There is always a push/pull factor at work in the agricultural labour force, with poor returns and prices pushing more from farming and a relatively higher income from off farm labour providing a pull. Again, that has been going on since agriculture began to dominate over hunter gatherer cultures and will continue tomorrow if the IFA was disbanded or even if it was never founded.

While we may all hanker over the supposed death of the family farm, the vast majority of Irish farms are still family farms. But commercial pressure will force more and more of them to convert to a more 'commercial' model, regardless of the IFA.

On your point about the IFA only campaigning on issues they have already found out they were getting, where did you think the campaigning was carried out? Every single day there are a multitude of campaigns going on, some with close deadlines, some with further away ones. The IFA has a limited amount of political capital to spend and have to spend it wisely, similar to a farmer putting up a slatted house. Throwing all the funds at one issue today would lead to a lack of capital available to throw a roof over the shed. It's very easy to be an internet campaigner but issues are sorted in discussions with the relevant parties, and not on a thread on an internet forum.

If you went to meetings, you would be aware of the 10-12 different headline issues that are discussed at a meeting as they are the most pertinent at that particular time and space is available for the discussion of other issues later. A standard, simple formula with space available for anyone to highlight an issue of concern to them or their area or their sector. Did you or anyone else raise any of those issues at meetings?

I really don't think I can explain how the whole process works any simpler than that. I don't always agree with the stance that the IFA take on issues but I go and make my voice heard. How anyone can sit at home and not take part in the discussion of an issue and then complain their voice isn't being heard is a concept that I struggle to understand?

I remember going to dairy meetings during the quota era and being appalled at the nonsensical back slapping that went on. Why did a farmer director resign form the board of Glanbia in recent times? I rest my case on the culture that existed.
I don't know how you can come to the conclusion that the old CAP system was that much better or worse at directing money to the family farm at the expense of the likes of prince Charles and Larry maith on fear? What has come on the news this evening is just typical of who and what IFA look after. If you read some of my earlier comments you will see I have tried harder that most to have my voice heard. I have put what turned out to be fictional IFA policy* to a CoOp EGM only to have it turned down by the IFA who sided with management. As far as I know if you go to their website they still claim to be in favour of independent milk testing and yet they voted against it when given the opportunity on a plate.For God sake they share an office with their own private newspaper. What came out this evening is only the tip of the ice burg.

Cavanjack

limo_100 wrote: »

Sham protests as right you only have to look at france and belgium to see a real protest, All the IFA do is stand there waiting for the rte cameras to show up and keep it going for a while and then quietly make there way back to the breast of goodman

Sure they jump on every bit of good news in farming and say they secured it. Any funding going they claimed it was got because of them. Remember hearing a few years ago from a friend about an esb line going through Meath and the farmers kicked up among themselves and ended up getting money. The Ifa jumped in before the end of negotiations and claimed it. The beef protests last year confirmed to me that the Ifa was a sham.
When the average beef farmers income is cira 10k how can any one of them continue paying membership?

grassroot1

I am a branch chairman and all I can say is a am disgusted, disappointed and feel very let down by people who are elected to represent the interests of the members of the association.