General secretary of the IFA on a possible €400,000 salary-Read mod note in post 2734

Farmer Ed

farmertipp wrote: »

Says you??? Agri sales have held up well instead of that..agri sales heavily influenced by good weather and milk price. Same for every one else. Can you quantify ''massively down ''?

On top of that they have lost their exclusive Danone contract, trucks coming in from different CoOps to Macroom this summer. Also Mogeely just working 2 hours a day at peak this year, but the general committee members were told that they were flat out. Yes they did take in a lot of milk in Mogeely but most of it was sucked back out again and taken up to Mitchelstown. A plat that should have a lot less milk coming in next year when Gill have Bellview up and running. Rumor coming from farmers in waterford is that Gill are bank rolling Dg at the moment. Sounds not too dissimilar to the situation they found themselves in when they had to sell the brands to Kerry. As I said it is just a rumor for now, but it sounds plausible, a few farmers I know of were left with no milk cheques in july as the CoOp did a blitz on collecting money owed. That coupled with the fact that they have begun the process of expelling the 60+ suppliers that have left them for Botherbue and Arrabawn. Under Dg rules they are obliged to refund them the value of their shares, however there is a clause that allows Dg not to refund expelled members. They can only do so in the event of refunding the money putting the CoOps finances in jeopardy. Dg so far have used that clause. What does that say about their finances?

Now if you think the CEO overseeing the mess I have outlined, is doing a good job and is worth possibly up a million a year? Then I don't know what to say?
The price Gill are paying for milk is irrelevant. Gill like Dg have their suppliers tied down with a totally one sided contract. This allows them to pay farmers what ever they bloody well feel like and get away with it. To make it worse all this was fully endorsed by PS and his buddies in IFA and the events of the last few days help more farmers understand why.

Farmer Ed

Milked out wrote: »

I assume you'll air your grievances at the dg area meetings in the next month. Explain how it's the building of the plant to process my milk and not the market that's causing the poor milk price?

Sorry to have to spell this out to you, but if 83 million and growing, is spent unnecessarily. It has to be paid for by the farmer. Thing about us farmers is we tend to forget that everyone in the CoOp and the banks have to be paid before we do, and the more things that have to be paid for, the less money there is left over for us. It really is that simple!

frazzledhome

Farmer Ed wrote: »

On top of that they have lost their exclusive Danone contract, trucks coming in from different CoOps to Macroom this summer. Also Mogeely just working 2 hours a day at peak this year, but the general committee members were told that they were flat out. Yes they did take in a lot of milk in Mogeely but most of it was sucked back out again and taken up to Mitchelstown. A plat that should have a lot less milk coming in next year when Gill have Bellview up and running. Rumor coming from farmers in waterford is that Gill are bank rolling Dg at the moment. Sounds not too dissimilar to the situation they found themselves in when they had to sell the brands to Kerry. As I said it is just a rumor for now, but it sounds plausible, a few farmers I know of were left with no milk cheques in july as the CoOp did a blitz on collecting money owed. That coupled with the fact that they have begun the process of expelling the 60+ suppliers that have left them for Botherbue and Arrabawn. Under Dg rules they are obliged to refund them the value of their shares, however there is a clause that allows Dg not to refund expelled members. They can only do so in the event of refunding the money putting the CoOps finances in jeopardy. Dg so far have used that clause. What does that say about their finances?

Now if you think the CEO overseeing the mess I have outlined, is doing a good job and is worth possibly up a million a year? Then I don't know what to say?
The price Gill are paying for milk is irrelevant. Gill like Dg have their suppliers tied down with a totally one sided contract. This allows them to pay farmers what ever they bloody well feel like and get away with it. To make it worse all this was fully endorsed by PS and his buddies in IFA and the events of the last few days help more farmers understand why.

Glanbia financing DG, has to be quote of the week

Farmer Ed

frazzledhome wrote: »

Glanbia financing DG, has to be quote of the week

As I said it is a rumor that is spreading around Waterford I don't know if it is true. They do seam to be working very closely. Bellview closed down, Gill milk being sent down to Mitchelstown and for the reasons I outlined above, Dg are not giving a very good impression of being in great financial shape.

whelan2

frazzledhome wrote: »

Glanbia financing DG, has to be quote of the week

what has all that got to do with Pat Smith?

Farmer Ed

whelan2 wrote: »

what has all that got to do with Pat Smith?

True I agree. was just answering a few questions that have been pulling this thread off track. Back to the case in point. I have copied and pasted this form a CoOp website. it explains the functions of a remuneration committee. I assume IFA operates along similar lines. As you can see as long as remuneration is kept a secret, then these guys have effectively a blank cheque book and are free to pay themselves what ever they see fit. We really shouldn't be that surprised to find out that people with this kind of discretion feel they are worth a lot.

Remuneration Committee

The Remuneration Committee comprises Messrs John Malone (Chairman), James Lynch, Tom Feeney and John O'Gorman. The role and responsibilities of the Remuneration Committee are set out in its written terms of reference. The principal responsibilities of the Committee are:
» to determine the policy for the remuneration of the Chief Executive, Secretary and Direct Reports to the Chief Executive as well as the Society’s policy on remuneration and expenses payable to members of the Board, members of the Regional Committees, General Committee and members of any sub committee established from time to time;
» review and sanction new or amended salary, incentive bonus, retirement benefit and or other benefits for Senior Executives of the Society whose remuneration is to be determined by the Committee;
» agree the policy and procedures for authorisation of claims for expenses of Senior Executives, the Board, and members of the Regional Committees, General Committee and any other sub committee established from time to time.

Water John

That's interesting Farmer Ed. We will all decide what to pay ourselves and we won't tell anybody else.
I see this storm is not dying down. Not out of anger but Downey, O'Leary and Bergin should go because it is the right thing to do.

Farmer Ed

Water John wrote: »

That's interesting Farmer Ed. We will all decide what to pay ourselves and we won't tell anybody else.
I see this storm is not dying down. Not out of anger but Downey, O'Leary and Bergin should go because it is the right thing to do.

Yes I have been reliably informed by someone that served on one of these remuneration committees, that it is common for them to be advised by a consultant who is appointed by the CEO. So in effect the CEO has his own man in there batting for him. Of course he will say the CEO should get a rise, that's if he wants to get that call next year.

farmertipp

Farmer Ed wrote: »

As I said it is a rumor that is spreading around Waterford I don't know if it is true. They do seam to be working very closely. Bellview closed down, Gill milk being sent down to Mitchelstown and for the reasons I outlined above, Dg are not giving a very good impression of being in great financial shape.

Where the proof that gii are supporting dg?it sounds like cooperation to achieve synergies to me..good business acumen. . Or am I being a conspiracy theorist too!!

stretch film

GII might get around to paying their own suppliers some of these days ,
As for subbing DG's milk price thats like the one about subbing wexford a few years ago.

farmertipp

stretch film wrote: »

GII might get around to paying their own suppliers some of these days ,
As for subbing DG's milk price thats like the one about subbing wexford a few years ago.

True..they are hardly helping dg to pay 25.5 whilst paying 24 to their own suppliers. .

Water John

Dear Milked Out. I have seen before where these facts were explained to Dairygold about Mallow a long time ago. you are believing what you were told that milk expansion would be 63%. This is remarkable as being the same as what Glanbia said, cooincidence?? No other processor or those in agribusiness agreed. There is plenty spare capacity in the country to process peak milk.
Dairygold are spending 83.5M on the same size plant as they said they had bought in Macroom 10 years ago for 11M. This is all the smoke and mirrors and IFA are up to their neck in it. That is why it is relevant. I am giving it as an example Dairygold farmers are being fooled for the second time. Last time they lost all their assets in the REOX debacle. That supported loudly by IFA gurus. This time round it has no reserve having made another drastic and costly error supported again by the same IFA gurus.
That is why it needs a fundamental review. Too many yes men.
Davy Fitz didn't ring Donal Og because he wanted a yes man. He rang him to improve the team. That's the type of call that's needed.

Farmer Ed

stretch film wrote: »

GII might get around to paying their own suppliers some of these days ,
As for subbing DG's milk price thats like the one about subbing wexford a few years ago.

Did they not take over wexford? As I have said already is is a rumor that has come from some farmers in the waterford area. It may not be true but that coupled with Dgs inability to even refund share money to suppliers who are leaving, invoking a clause in a rule they are only allowed invoke in the event of it placing the Co Ops finances in jeopardy, its over zealous raiding of july milk cheques, its woes with Danone,Mogeely. and the overspend in a Mallow. Maybe the Waterford boys are only trying to get a rise out of their unfortunate neighbours. Milk price does not really add or subtract from the argument, as long as farmers are signed up to contracts, they can pay them what ever they like and get away with it. You would have to say Dg have to be a bit more sensitive with price. Bottom of the milk league would not look great at this point and really set alarm bells ringing. In a way if you think about it all Gill have to do to support them, is keep the price down and it will help paint Dg in a slightly better light.

I repeat its a rumor. Now lets get back to the point of this thread.

Clive Bisquette

Lookit lads as a city man I'm sorry but your eyes were well and truly wiped....but it really boils my piss that after all the hoo hah about the CRC and the various hospitals and Fas etc that these greedy assholes are able to still pull the wool over peoples eyes.

Lookit! If the top man was trousering over half a million of your hard earned you can bet that his direct reports had their snouts and trotters firmly in the trough.

Don't let up on this one ..get the facts on ALL the seniors and don't forget their company cars and expenses !


sigh....it's still happening

Buford T. Justice XIX

Farmer Ed wrote: »

As I said it is a rumor that is spreading around Waterford I don't know if it is true. They do seam to be working very closely. Bellview closed down, Gill milk being sent down to Mitchelstown and for the reasons I outlined above, Dg are not giving a very good impression of being in great financial shape.

farmertipp wrote: »

Where the proof that gii are supporting dg?it sounds like cooperation to achieve synergies to me..good business acumen. . Or am I being a conspiracy theorist too!!

I can't believe I am the only one here who has worked in a processing plant?

Farmer Ed, it's quite simple. The majority of processing plants in the country are 40 years old so they use old technology or, rather, design for the most part.

Using my own processor as an example, Kerry generally shut down all the driers in mid December and over the christmas and into the new year. While this is done, all the plants undergo maintenance which often involves an almost complete rip up of the drier lines and any sections that caused problems or are nearing the end of their life cycle are replaced. Sometimes a lot of this mass maintenance among the different driers overlap so little or no milk can be dried.

The milk is sent to Arrabawn mainly, iirc, but can sometimes be sent elsewhere. That is no indication that Kerry are taking over Arrabawn, just that Kerry are getting the plant ready for peak supply and Arrabawn are decreasing their cost base by spreading their costs over more Liters.

Farmer Ed

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

I can't believe I am the only one here who has worked in a processing plant?

Farmer Ed, it's quite simple. The majority of processing plants in the country are 40 years old so they use old technology or, rather, design for the most part.

Using my own processor as an example, Kerry generally shut down all the driers in mid December and over the christmas and into the new year. While this is done, all the plants undergo maintenance which often involves an almost complete rip up of the drier lines and any sections that caused problems or are nearing the end of their life cycle are replaced. Sometimes a lot of this mass maintenance among the different driers overlap so little or no milk can be dried.

The milk is sent to Arrabawn mainly, iirc, but can sometimes be sent elsewhere. That is no indication that Kerry are taking over Arrabawn, just that Kerry are getting the plant ready for peak supply and Arrabawn are decreasing their cost base by spreading their costs over more Liters.

I'm surprised if you work in a processing plant and you don't know that Bellview is spanking brand new and is likely to be closed for 4 or 5 months. It also points out that the lack of processing that we were warned about in the industry was no way near as bad as they would have us believe.

If your a kerryman hats off but you should know better than most,if Dg hadn't sold you the brands when they did, they would have folded long ago.

I'm glad to hear you have no plans to take over Arrabawn. Dg added to their problems by thinking they could pull that one off.



Lets not get away from the purpose of this thread we re annoying a few people by moving form the subject.

kowtow

Farmer Ed wrote:

Yes I have been reliably informed by someone that served on one of these remuneration committees, that it is common for them to be advised by a consultant who is appointed by the CEO. So in effect the CEO has his own man in there batting for him. Of course he will say the CEO should get a rise, that's if he wants to get that call next year.

That's how we always used to do it.

I can be as greedy as the best of them but I couldn't touch those consultants for justifying outrageous packages. I never wanted to be anywhere near a remuneration committee when we put consultants in for fear they would make me blush.

Bass Reeves

rangler1 wrote: »

sad effort, keyboard coward again, we all know dd is coming again and you're one of pets. but dd installed smith, was deputy from 2005 and like he said about downey this morning,he knew berkerys deal after 24hrs in the job, which by all accounts was better than smiths.
At least the next fight has to be face to face, no cowards

Jayus you are a great man at throwing the insults around. There a saying ''stick's and stone's will break my bones but names will never hurt me''. I never knew that it was wrong to anonymous on this forum. I taught that this was the point of the forum. You obiviously do not used a user name. So your name is Rangler in real life.

Well Mr F~~king Rangler as I said before I left the IFA years ago. Never met nor even talked to DD. The only honourable man in this sorry mess was Con Lucey who you think lacked guts. The truth is we all know who were the cowards. These were the lads who never asked the hard questions over the years. These were the big shots that were at all the meetings.

As I said all these organisation are ruled top down with full time staff ruling the roost. Little will change just a bit of musical chairs unless the money runs out. Then watch the rats climbing down the ropes to get to safety.

wiggy123

how much d ifa take in a year
they get so much cent per litre (re dairy sector)?
so much per beast killed in factory, or mart sale?
what else do they avail of? re get money of?

i'm not a member, and would never be---for me its jobs for the boys..a click.. like most organisations in Ireland

rant over..

mayb am wrong with top 3 ?s

greysides

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Well Mr F~~king Rangler

[mod] There's been a lively and robust argument on this thread with a lot of give and take... and in that atmosphere some leeway has been extended to the normal expectations of courtesy. However, it's not endless!

Please tone down comments like this one above and keep the argument to just 'heated'.... [/mod]

orm0nd

http://www.farmersjournal.ie/farmer-writers-react-to-ifa-pay-crisis-194531/

Farmer Ed

kowtow wrote: »

That's how we always used to do it.

I can be as greedy as the best of them but I couldn't touch those consultants for justifying outrageous packages. I never wanted to be anywhere near a remuneration committee when we put consultants in for fear they would make me blush.

To be fair to them Kowtow you make a very valid point. It really is part of the human condition. If a obviously upstanding citizen such as yourself can admit to being susceptible to greed,:o then it just goes to show we all need to be accountable.People worshiping and the worship of false Gods such as IFA ultimately ends up bad. Why? Because we all need to be accountable. Absolute power corrupts absolutely every time. Its high time we demanded full transparency from the people who are supposed to be looking after our business. Be it farm organisations or CoOps. Did you know that our CoOps are
still governed by a 1893 british law that falls well short of making them accountable to their owners? We will soon be celebrating 100 years of independence and you have to wonder what people thought they were dying for, if after a hundred years, farmers are in effect are still governed by outdated British laws.
One glimmer of hope. I understand that the group of farmers who went to Stratroy from Wexford are forming a new CoOp. Apparently they will not register it under the ICOS, but instead they have hired a solicitor to draw up a new set of rules fit for purpose for the 21th century. Surely this needs to be examined by us all and if proven to offer greater transparency and protection to farmers, could be used as a template for all such organisations.

Farmer Ed

orm0nd wrote: »

http://www.farmersjournal.ie/farmer-writers-react-to-ifa-pay-crisis-194531/

Man they even own their own newspaper and the scary part is a lot of farmers believe everything they read on it!!! I remember as a child hearing reports released by the Russian news agency on behalf of the Soviet communist party. Apparently their paper had a bit of an agenda as well.

Water John

Yes Ormond I have looked at that. Harold Kingston already saying, the deed is done, time to move on, nothing to see here.
Was at an extended family event earlier, mostly non farmers male and female. The IFA crisis was not raised by me but it was the talk of the house.
One farmer who is a very steady man, we all know the type, said IFA would not get one more cent from him.

Farmer Ed

Water John wrote: »

Yes Ormond I have looked at that. Harold Kingston already saying, the deed is done, time to move on, nothing to see here.
Was at an extended family event earlier, mostly non farmers male and female. The IFA crisis was not raised by me but it was the talk of the house.
One farmer who is a very steady man, we all know the type, said IFA would not get one more cent from him.

Was in Cork today and spoke to a few city people who brought it up. It's no wonder a lot of city people think country people are a bit slow. We're our own worst enemies the crap we put up with.

rangler1

Water John wrote: »

Yes Ormond I have looked at that. Harold Kingston already saying, the deed is done, time to move on, nothing to see here.
Was at an extended family event earlier, mostly non farmers male and female. The IFA crisis was not raised by me but it was the talk of the house.
One farmer who is a very steady man, we all know the type, said IFA would not get one more cent from him.

John Hanly and Derek deane on country wide and now Harold Kingston....... you're being sold a pup, if ye all don't put the boot in now it'll show that all the criticism of IFA on here for the last 5 years to be just whingeing.
They didn't tell me the truth and I will not be whingeing I can assure you
See the reference to berkery by one of those journal writers, dderek was deputy pres then

frazzledhome

wiggy123 wrote: »

how much d ifa take in a year
they get so much cent per litre (re dairy sector)?
so much per beast killed in factory, or mart sale?
what else do they avail of? re get money of?

i'm not a member, and would never be---for me its jobs for the boys..a click.. like most organisations in Ireland

rant over..

mayb am wrong with top 3 ?s

Sorry to be blunt but how is it any of your business. As you say your not a member and won't be.

rangler1

Farmer Ed wrote: »

Was in Cork today and spoke to a few city people who brought it up. It's no wonder a lot of city people think country people are a bit slow. We're our own worst enemies the crap we put up with.

Yea, I was at out last night, really enjoyed the crack over it. don't think anyone outside farming's too bothered.

Sheep breeder

frazzledhome wrote: »

Sorry to be blunt but how is it any of your business. As you say your not a member and won't be.

the person has asked a valid question on an open forum, is it not this sort of reply from the ifa about the sec pay, alot of this from the ifa is sit back in your box lad as we the big boys who run the show from the top.
my mother was talking recently about the the time the ifa marched to dublin on foot, a neighbour of ours was one of those men and if he was arond to day he would be sick to hear about all the money the boys are getting at the top and how this has changed.
how many of the top brass would be able to march to dublin now, hard to see DD and the president and the sec general etc out on foot.

Milked out

Water John wrote: »

Dear Milked Out. I have seen before where these facts were explained to Dairygold about Mallow a long time ago. you are believing what you were told that milk expansion would be 63%. This is remarkable as being the same as what Glanbia said, cooincidence?? No other processor or those in agribusiness agreed. There is plenty spare capacity in the country to process peak milk.
Dairygold are spending 83.5M on the same size plant as they said they had bought in Macroom 10 years ago for 11M. This is all the smoke and mirrors and IFA are up to their neck in it. That is why it is relevant. I am giving it as an example Dairygold farmers are being fooled for the second time. Last time they lost all their assets in the REOX debacle. That supported loudly by IFA gurus. This time round it has no reserve having made another drastic and costly error supported again by the same IFA gurus.
That is why it needs a fundamental review. Too many yes men.
Davy Fitz didn't ring Donal Og because he wanted a yes man. He rang him to improve the team. That's the type of call that's needed.

I believe the expansion figure, I filled out those supply forecasts and am on the way to meeting that figure and a bit with it, as are my 3 imediate neighbours. Also there are a few near buy who won't expand as much but who also produce bullocks so will have the option of increasing if the next generation come on stream or if they so wish themselves. That figure may not be reached as fast as first thought hence the phased expansion. Reox was a disaster we all.know that.but if it was set up 10 or 15 years earlier it may have worked out better. Personally moving to that business was a bad call jumping on a bandwagon too late in the game and i feel focusing on food ingredients would have been better ala carbery kerry and glanbia.
Investing in plant to make the most of quota abolition isn't the same as reox
With regard to Davy Fitz and donal of, too lads from similar generations id say there opinions are fairly closely aligned. Don't see how the IFA are so involved as u say in dairygold we made our own call here didn't go next or near the IFA or hear from em either as did majority of suppliers I would think.
The simple matter of the thread is the man in question was grossly over paid for the job he held simple as that. Within the IFA that needs to be looked at and those at the top who facilitated that need to look at their own positions. I'm sure vast majority of voluntary workers had no idea of the scale. This mess rests solely at the top and and from the outside looking in that's where the blame should lay

Farmer Ed

frazzledhome wrote: »

Sorry to be blunt but how is it any of your business. As you say your not a member and won't be.

Because for too long IFA has been seen as the only voice of farmers and hasn't always been acting in our best interests.
I thought I had stopped paying them years ago, only to discover recently that they are still robbing money from my mart cheque under the disguise of the EIF Levy. Voluntary contribution my arse! How many farmers have given them permission to take that money?.

frazzledhome

Sheep breeder wrote: »

the person has asked a valid question on an open forum, is it not this sort of reply from the ifa about the sec pay, alot of this from the ifa is sit back in your box lad as we the big boys who run the show from the top.
my mother was talking recently about the the time the ifa marched to dublin on foot, a neighbour of ours was one of those men and if he was arond to day he would be sick to hear about all the money the boys are getting at the top and how this has changed.
how many of the top brass would be able to march to dublin now, hard to see DD and the president and the sec general etc out on foot.

I agree with every word but the post I referred to was from a non member who stated they wont be a member so how is it his business iykwim. I'm certainly not a flag waving IFA person. Member, yes.

Farmer Ed

Milked out wrote: »

I believe the expansion figure, I filled out those supply forecasts and am on the way to meeting that figure and a bit with it, as are my 3 imediate neighbours. Also there are a few near buy who won't expand as much but who also produce bullocks so will have the option of increasing if the next generation come on stream or if they so wish themselves. That figure may not be reached as fast as first thought hence the phased expansion. Reox was a disaster we all.know that.but if it was set up 10 or 15 years earlier it may have worked out better. Personally moving to that business was a bad call jumping on a bandwagon too late in the game and i feel focusing on food ingredients would have been better ala carbery kerry and glanbia.
Investing in plant to make the most of quota abolition isn't the same as reox
With regard to Davy Fitz and donal of, too lads from similar generations id say there opinions are fairly closely aligned. Don't see how the IFA are so involved as u say in dairygold we made our own call here didn't go next or near the IFA or hear from em either as did majority of suppliers I would think.
The simple matter of the thread is the man in question was grossly over paid for the job he held simple as that. Within the IFA that needs to be looked at and those at the top who facilitated that need to look at their own positions. I'm sure vast majority of voluntary workers had no idea of the scale. This mess rests solely at the top and and from the outside looking in that's where the blame should lay

If you cant see IFA and Dg are not joined at the hip, then I probably would be serving my time better trying to persuade a jihadist to have an Irish breakfast.
Sorry to burst your bubble but when you filled up that so called forecast you also signed a contract that sees you securing the borrowings of a CoOp,that lets call a spade a spade, has not a great track record of investing farmers money wisely. Now that they have you tied down they can pay you what ever they like. Not just the current CoOp but also any possible new owners should they be taken over. The plant you refer to is costing 2 to 3 times more than it should and with Bellwiew up and running it wont be needed! Why do you think they tried to take Arrabawns suppliers? That stupid move in itself should tell you something about the caliber of the people you have signed your life away to.

Now how IFA could support this and say it was in farmers best interest? Man I give up! I'm off to find a board with some Jihadists on it. I recon a good fry up and they might feel a bit more relaxed.

listermint

frazzledhome wrote: »

I agree with every word but the post I referred to was from a non member who stated they wont be a member so how is it his business iykwim. I'm certainly not a flag waving IFA person. Member, yes.

I think any citizen and tax payer of the country is fully entitled to ask what the IFA is up to as they impact various sectors of industry.

Your cloak and dagger approach is both silly an amusing in equal measure

rangler1

Farmer Ed wrote: »

If you cant see IFA and Dg are not joined at the hip, then I probably would be serving my time better trying to persuade a jihadist to have an Irish breakfast.
Sorry to burst your bubble but when you filled up that so called forecast you also signed a contract that sees you securing the borrowings of a CoOp,that lets call a spade a spade, has not a great track record of investing farmers money wisely. Now that they have you tied down they can pay you what ever they like. Not just the current CoOp but also any possible new owners should they be taken over. Now how IFA could support this and say it was in farmers best interest? Man I give up! I'm off to find a board with some Jihadists on it. I recon a good fry up and they might feel a bit more relaxed.

Do you not think that farmers that have interests in agriculture outside the farm gate have so little competition from anyone else that they can waltz into any position they like,
Generally if they're interested in IFA, where there produce is going is of interest too, see it around here anyway.
If you're paranoid I suppose you see it as IFA taking over COOPs or vice versa,

Farmer Ed

rangler1 wrote: »

Do you not think that farmers that have interests in agriculture outside the farm gate have so little competition from anyone else that they can waltz into any position they like,
Generally if they're interested in IFA, where there produce is going is of interest too, see it around here anyway.
If you're paranoid I suppose you see it as IFA taking over COOPs or vice versa,

Good man Ahmad sur didn't I tell you you'd feel feel better after that black pudding.Now go on try a bit of the rasher.

Oh sorry wrong website. Must get back to Ahmad at lest I'm making some progress with him

rangler1

Farmer Ed wrote: »

Good man Ahmad sur didn't I tell you you'd feel feel better after that black pudding.Now go on try a bit of the rasher.

Oh sorry wrong website. Must get back to Ahmad at lest I'm making some progress with him

Whoever you're begrudging now, I hope they're getting plenty of bonuses/junkets at you expense

kowtow

rangler1 wrote: »

Do you not think that farmers that have interests in agriculture outside the farm gate have so little competition from anyone else that they can waltz into any position they like,
Generally if they're interested in IFA, where there produce is going is of interest too, see it around here anyway.
If you're paranoid I suppose you see it as IFA taking over COOPs or vice versa,

Seems to me that the problem is not interest, but self-interest.

whelan2

My da was sayingthere article in sunday indo says full details of all salaries over 50k should be made public, nobody wants to know anything under that

rangler1

kowtow wrote: »

Seems to me that the problem is not interest, but self-interest.

Same as me going to the factory with the lorry in the group, in looking after my own sheep, I'm looking after the load as well, it's always no harm to stand beside the grader,
Milking extra cows in a glut situation could be described as self interest to the depridation of everyone.
You can spin anything you like,

rangler1

whelan2 wrote: »

My da was sayingthere article in sunday indo says full details of all salaries over 50k should be made public, nobody wants to know anything under that

I think that's something that's going to be legislation shortly in bodies like IFA

Water John

I think the core of the problem was spelt out above by the post that said 'it was all about self interest not the good of all farmers'.

It is right that such salaries are public. Not just the General Secretary of IFA. Anyone representing farmers or their interests. Lets each make their own mind up on value for money, simple as.
By the way Milked Out you should ask your local Dairygold Director, if your not one, to arrange a trip up to Lecpatrick when the new plant is in.
Peak supply in Carbery is being taken care of by a refurbished dryer costing 3M and cost 100K to automate. Thats why they can pay a better price. Good prudent decision making by Dan McSweeney and his team.We have been told with 30 years that West Cork would fail to achieve a high milk price because they were simply making cheese.

keep going

After 37 pages my thoughts, what is the ifa s turnover and its profit and how many employees, then you have to allow for the profile of the organisation and a couple of more factors and then there is industry scale which you can consult which gives you parameters for the salary.smple negotiations after that.one point id like to make is , like cows if you want milk you must feed her and a bad cow is a waste of time no matter how cheap she comes.and as we know we.l plenty farmers think people should work for nothing for them.
the other point is that while dd was right to do something about it , it has hugely weakened the ifa and it will take some doing to bring it back it back to a strong place for negotiations and I have a feeling it will cost farmers alot more than the extra 250k that peopl think smith was over paid.id question was this all started due to some internal political rangling rather than the best interests of farmers which is such a pity as it generally was the icmsa that used to have most of that carry on.
rangler gets alot of abuse here and his style is very combative but the point remains , the organisation is what you make it and you will only get back what you put in and its very easy to stand on the sidelines and condemn. Love or loath and no doubt there is room for improvement and this crisi is a huge opportunity to drive through change but we need them to lobby on our behalf

Farmer Ed

keep going wrote: »

After 37 pages my thoughts, what is the ifa s turnover and its profit and how many employees, then you have to allow for the profile of the organisation and a couple of more factors and then there is industry scale which you can consult which gives you parameters for the salary.smple negotiations after that.one point id like to make is , like cows if you want milk you must feed her and a bad cow is a waste of time no matter how cheap she comes.and as we know we.l plenty farmers think people should work for nothing for them.
the other point is that while dd was right to do something about it , it has hugely weakened the ifa and it will take some doing to bring it back it back to a strong place for negotiations and I have a feeling it will cost farmers alot more than the extra 250k that peopl think smith was over paid.id question was this all started due to some internal political rangling rather than the best interests of farmers which is such a pity as it generally was the icmsa that used to have most of that carry on.
rangler gets alot of abuse here and his style is very combative but the point remains , the organisation is what you make it and you will only get back what you put in and its very easy to stand on the sidelines and condemn. Love or loath and no doubt there is room for improvement and this crisi is a huge opportunity to drive through change but we need them to lobby on our behalf

Problem is they usually only lobby on their own behalf and have been doing quite well for themselves as PS salary would suggest.

locky76

whelan2 wrote: »

My da was sayingthere article in sunday indo says full details of all salaries over 50k should be made public, nobody wants to know anything under that

It should factor in all expenses also.
Another galling thing are the amount of directorships which Pat Smith sat on, these are jobs for the boys and are very well remunerated. All this adds another significant chunk onto his financial gain from his (former) IFA position.

rangler1

Farmer Ed wrote: »

Problem is they usually only lobby on their own behalf and have been doing quite well for themselves as PS salary would suggest.

that's why every sector should be represented instead of letting someone else do it......only a fool would lobby against themselves

kowtow

I agree with rangler on one point - it's all very well complaining but you have to be sure about what you want to change.

For my part I'd be happy to see the IFA continue on the basis that all salaries over €80 k gross were clearly disclosed, along with a register of outside interests for executives.

Levies and deductions from milk and marts should be explicitly an 'opt in' rather than an opt out. At present it's legally harder for the IFA to send you an email newsletter from their website than to help themselves to your money at the coop or mart.

Those two measures should encourage the right culture and keep people focused on those they are supposed to speak for.

Anything unreasonable about that?

cjpm

frazzledhome wrote: »

Sorry to be blunt but how is it any of your business. As you say your not a member and won't be.

Not a member either....

Cancelled the levy in the meat factory 12 months ago. Had a look at the statements since.... First few no IFA levy, however after 3 months they started putting their hand in my pocket again. Will be ringing the factory next week.

Couldn't see it in the milk cheque. Dairygold supplier. What do they call it? Have loads of different levys none seem to be IFA related, although there is one just called Levy. Must enquire about that

Milked out

cjpm wrote: »

Not a member either....

Cancelled the levy in the meat factory 12 months ago. Had a look at the statements since.... First few no IFA levy, however after 3 months they started putting their hand in my pocket again. Will be ringing the factory next week.

Couldn't see it in the milk cheque. Dairygold supplier. What do they call it? Have loads of different levys none seem to be IFA related, although there is one just called Levy. Must enquire about that

In the deductions/allowances section it says ifa/ macra fund. It would be below the main statement where the dairy levies are

cjpm

Milked out wrote: »

In the deductions/allowances section it says ifa/ macra fund. It would be below the main statement where the dairy levies are

Don't think I'm paying it so. Paying an ICMSA levy alright.



The IFJ aren't coming out of this smelling of roses either. The official propaganda paper of the IFA.

They are pretty poor at publishing anything that might annoy a major advertiser etc.... For example the DG vs Henchy case, Carrolls moving milk in Glanbia and now PatSmithGate

Fair dues to Agriland, they covered them all.